Trade Deadline Updates,Rumors and laugh at Eklund

[BlackIce]

Why are Bura's and Connolly's stats padded?  They don't play on the PP by and large.  PP1 is Ovie/Kuzy/Backstrom/Oshie/Carlson.  PP2 is Eller/Vrana/Wilson/Niskanen/Orlov.  And besides, PP/PK stats don't pad +/-.  As a 3rd line player by and large, Burakovsky gets his share of defensive zone face-offs.  And if Gudbranson is getting top 6 minutes, he has to be getting some share of offensive zone face-offs.


You just don't want to face the fact that, despite the type of player he is, Gudbranson has never shown himself to be a very good player, and he's been a complete waste of a #3 draft pick to this point in his career.

[DC_1908]

Why are Bura's and Connolly's stats padded?  They don't play on the PP by and large.  PP1 is Ovie/Kuzy/Backstrom/Oshie/Carlson.  PP2 is Eller/Vrana/Wilson/Niskanen/Orlov.  And besides, PP/PK stats don't pad +/-.  As a 3rd line player by and large, Burakovsky gets his share of defensive zone face-offs.  And if Gudbranson is getting top 6 minutes, he has to be getting some share of offensive zone fac

You just don't want to face the fact that, despite the type of player he is, Gudbranson has never shown himself to be a very good player, and he's been a complete waste of a #3 draft pick to this point in his career.

Not at all,   You just don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about in the least, Let alone knot what makes a good player.
Really how the fuck long have you followed this sport? Because you talk shit to try tibsound like you’ve followed it for decades, but what you say shows you’ve followed it for 5 fuckin minutes.

Save us the pathetic attempt to deflect and not answer the easy questions that destroy you’re bullshit cause they’re completely transparent

You don’t wanna face the fact that you don’t know the hell you’re talking about and you’re to naive to realize that.

Really the bullshit you just tried to sell me is EA Sports Special Olympics Hockey shit, and hs nothing to do with the NHZk

I’ve told you before: participate, learn, discuss, but don’t for a second think you know more than anyone here, particularly after you site +/- as a credible stat.

[BlackIce]

Not at all,   You just don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about in the least, Let alone knot what makes a good player.
Really how the fuck long have you followed this sport? Because you talk shit to try tibsound like you’ve followed it for decades, but what you say shows you’ve followed it for 5 fuckin minutes.

You don’t wanna face the fact that you don’t know the hell you’re talking about and you’re to naive to realize that.

Really the bullshit you just tried to sell me is EA Sports Special Olympics Hockey shit, and hs nothing to do with the NHZk

I’ve told you before: participate, learn, discuss, but don’t for a second think you know more than anyone here, particularly after you site +/- as a credible stat.

Right -- and when your arguments are shown not to hold water, you turn to personal insult.


That is the difference between us.  I tend to try to treat people with respect.  You try to insult and demean people.


And plus minus is a credible stat -- if you track it over a sufficient period of time.  It's sort of like shooting percentage; subject to a lot of variation year to year.  But if a player is a negative player over year after year after year, evidence starts to accumulate that the player is not suited for the game or role they are playing, or in some way they are overmatched by who they are playing against.  Yes, +/- is really a team-on-the-ice stat for individual scores rather than a personal stat.  BUT after awhile, if it builds up enough, chances are that the player with the consistent negative result is part of the problem, not part of the solution.


This is one situation where I agree with Ted Leonsis:  Sooner or later, you are what your record says you are.  Gudbranson sooner or later must be recognized as a player who can't score, can't set up others to score, and when he's on the ice, he -- and his teammates -- can't keep the opposition from scoring more than they do.  In a sport that keeps score, that is the definition of an inferior player.  And when you factor in that Gudbranson was a #3 draft choice, it isn't a pretty sight.

[DC_1908]

Right -- and when your arguments are shown not to hold water, you turn to personal insult.

That is the difference between us.  I tend to try to treat people with respect.  You try to insult and demean people.


And plus minus is a credible stat -- if you track it over a sufficient period of time.  It's sort of like shooting percentage; subject to a lot of variation year to year.  But if a player is a negative player over year after year after year, evidence starts to accumulate that the player is not suited for the game or role they are playing, or in some way they are overmatched by who they are playing against.  Yes, +/- is really a team-on-the-ice stat for individual scores rather than a personal stat.  BUT after awhile, if it builds up enough, chances are that the player with the consistent negative result is part of the problem, not part of the solution.


This is one situation where I agree with Ted Leonsis:  Sooner or later, you are what your record says you are.  Gudbranson sooner or later must be recognized as a player who can't score, can't set up others to score, and when he's on the ice, he -- and his teammates -- can't keep the opposition from scoring more than they do.  In a sport that keeps score, that is the definition of an inferior player.  And when you factor in that Gudbranson was a #3 draft choice, it isn't a pretty sight.

So Jeff Schultz had one of the the greatest season in history when he was +/- 55 right?

Drew Doughtry has a -25, only -2 behind Gudbranson. Wow Dougthry must really suck then huh?
Alsu the fact that the main Vancouver for Vancouver has a .912 Save % and 1 shutout.  Because a goalie letting in beach balls isn’t a factor in +/- right?

But Kuzy, is a +6, despite scoring 58 points AND being on a line with the leagues top scorer,  so does that suggest he should be a Selke candidate?

See where I’m going?

The Plus/Minus stat was developed in the 50s by The Canadians.  So first you have the year.  A time where the key fabs for our cars are more powerful than the best computer on earth, filming games and having game film to study was rare do to the cost, and several other factors due to the year that shows how primitive the stat is.  Also, it was developed in Montreal in the 50s, During that time,being post depression and post WWII, it was common for players/coaches to not only start playing at very young age, but quitting school to play, or work.  So there where t many players physics or engineering degrees to say the least.

Therefore it’s understandable that writing down the players on your team when a goal is scored and keeping summing it up over time was considered a good stat.

Oh, and Montreal had some “pretty decent” teams back then, so their individual  +/- would tend to be higher, which probably explains why they kept it.

Here is a great article on why +/- is the worst stat in hockey  Note the part where it says what I referenced at first:"skewing for particular player types"

[BlackIce]

Ah, moving the goalposts again, are we??


Note when I described and used +/- it was over a period of several years, which is what is needed to stabilize a variable stat like +/-.  And of course you used Doughty's +/- this year, which is his first bad one after a stellar career where he has basically been plus after his rookie season.  Maybe he has lost a step and is starting to slip; I don't know -- it will take longer to make a judgment on that.   And yes, I'm sure that part of his issue is Jonathan Quick's deterioration this year, though their backup is 3rd in the league.  But it MAY WELL BE just a 1-year aberration.


Similarly, you bring up good ol' Jeff Schultz and his one aberrant +/- year.  Actually, he was a pretty good positional defender back then, and a good complement to Mike Green at the time, but positioning was all he had, and by a few years later the league had passed him by because of the increasing league emphasis on letting speed win out.  It got to the point where Schultz couldn't compete.


As for Kuzy, HIS +/- this year might actually be fairly indicative of what he has been; a top-line center with a lot of talent, and talent around him, who has also been pretty inconsistent in his play AND has garnered a lot of his stats on the PP, which doesn't count in +/-, so he ends up basically an even player (I consider +6 over 60 games basically even, especially for a guy who plays as many minutes as he does.)

[DC_1908]

Ah, moving the goalposts again, are we??


Note when I described and used +/- it was over a period of several years, which is what is needed to stabilize a variable stat like +/-.  And of course you used Doughty's +/- this year, which is his first bad one after a stellar career where he has basically been plus after his rookie season.  Maybe he has lost a step and is starting to slip; I don't know -- it will take longer to make a judgment on that.   And yes, I'm sure that part of his issue is Jonathan Quick's deterioration this year, though their backup is 3rd in the league.  But it MAY WELL BE just a 1-year aberration.


Similarly, you bring up good ol' Jeff Schultz and his one aberrant +/- year.  Actually, he was a pretty good positional defender back then, and a good complement to Mike Green at the time, but positioning was all he had, and by a few years later the league had passed him by because of the increasing league emphasis on letting speed win out.  It got to the point where Schultz couldn't compete.


As for Kuzy, HIS +/- this year might actually be fairly indicative of what he has been; a top-line center with a lot of talent, and talent around him, who has also been pretty inconsistent in his play AND has garnered a lot of his stats on the PP, which doesn't count in +/-, so he ends up basically an even player (I consider +6 over 60 games basically even, especially for a guy who plays as many minutes as he does.)

The goal post was never moved, you just don’t know where it was or what it is.


And you clearly, don’t understand the stat regardless of it just being spoon fed to you, which proves you don’t know the sport as you claim to and act like, yet your to naive and stuck up to realize that.


I was even cordial, showed examples, gave you the history, a provided a link to that supports everything I said.  Yet you reply with a weak attack, and repeating you’re inaccurate  opinion driven faux subjective analysis.  Which “clearly implies”, you have no objective data, you’re point is based on bad diagnosis and can’t see or won’t admit.  Or, you’re just trying to piss me which is fuckin amusing . . .

But hey, we know you your just trying to use the worst stat in sports to support the trendy myth that if you fight you can’t  play, and defenders that aren’t puck movers have no place in the game.  So you ignore/ don’t see all other factors  to contrary and to use an obsolete to support the cult-like trend you signed up for

So, start a thread where back your diagnosis up on how the +/- stat is worthwhile and useful, and watch everyone who actually know what they’re talking about, rip youre theory to shreds.

[justwincaps]

Not at all,   You just don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about in the least, Let alone knot what makes a good player.
Really how the fuck long have you followed this sport? Because you talk shit to try tibsound like you’ve followed it for decades, but what you say shows you’ve followed it for 5 fuckin minutes.

Save us the pathetic attempt to deflect and not answer the easy questions that destroy you’re bullshit cause they’re completely transparent

You don’t wanna face the fact that you don’t know the hell you’re talking about and you’re to naive to realize that.

Really the bullshit you just tried to sell me is EA Sports Special Olympics Hockey shit, and hs nothing to do with the NHL.

I’ve told you before: participate, learn, discuss, but don’t for a second think you know more than anyone here, particularly after you site +/- as a credible stat.

DC -

I've been on this board and the prior for years and generally enjoy reading your posts.  I don't always agree but do feel like you bring a certain perspective and knowledge base to the discussions.
But when you tee off on people who, BlackIce in particular, in my opinion have been respectful in their posts, it's disappointing to say the least.  There have been other posters who were simply jackasses in their posts and deserved being taken to the woodshed.
I agree that the +/- is, in isolation, a dubious metric.  What I don't agree with is your disagreeing with a respectful poster so disagreeably.  I am not a moderator nor do I purport to be the conscience of this board.  What I do know is that I stopped following HF boards because the posters their couldn't post their opinion without someone ripping their heads off.
This board is constructed of Washington Capitals fans.  We have more in common than disagreement.  We all want to watch another downtown parade this June.  We may disagree on what we need to do to get there, but this family should be able to do so respectfully so long as you are treated respectfully.
If someone is an asshat in their posts, I'll either be right behind you or even in front of you calling them out.  I have never seen this with BlackIce and think your responses have been over the top. 

[Mickstix]

He just hangry, needs his snickers bar! 

[DC_1908]

DC -

I've been on this board and the prior for years and generally enjoy reading your posts.  I don't always agree but do feel like you bring a certain perspective and knowledge base to the discussions.
But when you tee off on people who, BlackIce in particular, in my opinion have been respectful in their posts, it's disappointing to say the least.  There have been other posters who were simply jackasses in their posts and deserved being taken to the woodshed.
I agree that the +/- is, in isolation, a dubious metric.  What I don't agree with is your disagreeing with a respectful poster so disagreeably.  I am not a moderator nor do I purport to be the conscience of this board.  What I do know is that I stopped following HF boards because the posters their couldn't post their opinion without someone ripping their heads off.
This board is constructed of Washington Capitals fans.  We have more in common than disagreement.  We all want to watch another downtown parade this June.  We may disagree on what we need to do to get there, but this family should be able to do so respectfully so long as you are treated respectfully.
If someone is an asshat in their posts, I'll either be right behind you or even in front of you calling them out.  I have never seen this with BlackIce and think your responses have been over the top.

Understood, and I apologize to you, as you are a very valued member here. 


We started this site and maintain this site with hockey/Caps knowledge and fandom first and foremost, and being extremely loose on censorship etc,, kinda like the 400 section used to be 10-15 years ago.   You can say damn near anything you want, but you gotta know what you’re talk about, be able to back it up, and willing to learn if you don’t, can’t, or aren’t. . . well 😇


Besides, I’ve gotten a lot nicer over the years 😁

[DC_1908]

He just hangry, needs his snickers bar! 

Eww, processed carbs, sugar, and junk. . What J  need my Jack Daniels and/or Hopslam 😁

[Mickstix]

Eww, processed carbs, sugar, and junk. . What J  need my Jack Daniels and/or Hopslam 😁

I know, but it was before noon.. 

[DC_1908]

I know, but it was before noon.. 

. . . yeah, and? 😎

[alta]

I know, but it was before noon.. 

before noon means Jack and OJ. Breakfast of champions, and the only thing in my camelback when I go skiing, though you gotta be carful with that at altitude, I unclipped my skis one time on top of Vail and tried to walk, had clearly over done things

[Mickstix]

. . . yeah, and? 😎

And... You can't publicly talk about drinking before noon!!! 

before noon means Jack and OJ. Breakfast of champions.

Hush it!!!  Now let me go make another..  "Coffee" 

[alta]

And... You can't publicly talk about drinking before noon!!! 



Hush it!!!  Now let me go make another..  "Coffee" 

My weekend coffee is a 2:1 ratio of coffee and Carolann's, an inexpensive Irish cream, it's half the price of Bailys, which is important when your doing quantity over quality,


 

[DC_1908]

And... You can't publicly talk about drinking before noon!!! 



Hush it!!!  Now let me go make another..  "Coffee" 

Two words: Work From Home!! 😁