Offseason starts

[Devise]

Well, it is now 4 pm, well after the time when impending UFA's can begin talking to other teams.  We have heard nothing about whether or not Carlson has been resigned, which I interpret as meaning he hasn't.  Whether that means that talks have broken down, they are in the final stages of negotiating the crossed t's and dotted i's, there has been a mutual agreement that Carlson will talk to other teams, or whatever, we have no idea, because there seems to be a news blackout.


This situation, even more than the Trotz negotiation, is the linchpin of this offseason; almost everything else the team does this summer, with the possible exception of whatever deal they eventually give Wilson, hinges on what happens in with Carlson.  It would be nice if the team would give us a status report, no matter how brief.

There is still a chance that they are letting Carlson talk to other teams intentionally. Some teams (see the Isles with Tavares this season and Bolts with Stamkos a few ago) prefer to do that to show some respect to the player. Let me know confirm that upon testing the field they can see their own team is giving them value they like etc.


It's all part of the process. In most cases when it gets this close to FA you usually end up seeing a signing either on FA to the same team, or a bit during. If he was a lock to come back with the team for sure though he'd of been signed well before the end of the season. So I think that is somewhat telling, and for players I think sometimes that plays a bit in it too right? You ain't willing to discuss this with me start of the season? Fine, then I'll at least exercise my right to hear from some other teams.

[Maacoshark]

Well with the system we the Cup with, we don’t need to pay a top 5 or 3 point totaling Dman.  So replanting him in with that mind could and should work to our advantage.

   You are contradicting yourself. We won the cup with the system and Carlson was a huge part of it. Our system wasnt only a trap system. It involved dmen joining the rush. Also a big part of our success in the playoffs was due to our potent pp. Carlson was very important in that pp. We dont have anyone close to Carlson to play his spot on the pp. I know a lot of guys here aren't fans of Carlson but without him we dont win the cup. Not sure why some guys can't admit that.

[Maacoshark]

   Just heard rumors that the Caps are close to signing Carlson on an 8 year deal for 8 mil per season. Not sure if this is true. That's what I thought he would get. I was for something a bit lower in both money and the length.

[zerofox]

   Just heard rumors that the Caps are close to signing Carlson on an 8 year deal for 8 mil per season. Not sure if this is true. That's what I thought he would get. I was for something a bit lower in both money and the length.

Looks like it's done. I don't think the term and salary are a surprise to anyone. It's a bit rich and the term is too long but I'm not against it because I don't know of many other high level right handed dmen who can work the PP and eat up minutes like he does that are available and cheaper than him. Losing him would leave a large void, although without him we might have gone for "defense by committee" and used that $8 million to grab two quality dmen (which would also take care of our 6th spot left open by Orpik).


I don't love the deal, but I don't hate it. I know it is going to bite us in the ass, but hopefully that'll be years from now and hopefully we'll get at least a handful of years where he plays like he's worth the $8 million...

[Maacoshark]

Looks like it's done. I don't think the term and salary are a surprise to anyone. It's a bit rich and the term is too long but I'm not against it because I don't know of many other high level right handed dmen who can work the PP and eat up minutes like he does that are available and cheaper than him. Losing him would leave a large void, although without him we might have gone for "defense by committee" and used that $8 million to grab two quality dmen (which would also take care of our 6th spot left open by Orpik).


I don't love the deal, but I don't hate it. I know it is going to bite us in the ass, but hopefully that'll be years from now and hopefully we'll get at least a handful of years where he plays like he's worth the $8 million...

     I feel pretty much the same way about the deal. Dont love the deal but dont hate it either.
I think there will be some disappointed guys here.
   As for the 6th we have plenty of prospects that could fill that spot. Who knows Orpik may be back yet.

[4 Caps]

Its official, Carlson is coming back.  BMac did what he had to do to get him signed.  While the contract is a bit pricey, in a few years it won’t be that pricey compared to what other defenseman are getting.  His contract makes him the third highest paid defenseman right now but as other defenseman come on the market and get paid he will rapidly fall from the top group.  I am happy and relieved that Carlson is signed, hopefully Kempny will soon follow. 

[zerofox]

Its official, Carlson is coming back.  BMac did what he had to do to get him signed.  While the contract is a bit pricey, in a few years it won’t be that pricey compared to what other defenseman are getting.  His contract makes him the third highest paid defenseman right now but as other defenseman come on the market and get paid he will rapidly fall from the top group.  I am happy and relieved that Carlson is signed, hopefully Kempny will soon follow.

In a few years it's going to look pricey as age becomes a factor. It is an overpay but I feel like it is a necessary evil. I wouldn't want to worry about how we're filling that void. I think this signing gives me some peace of mind.

[Devise]

In a few years it's going to look pricey as age becomes a factor. It is an overpay but I feel like it is a necessary evil. I wouldn't want to worry about how we're filling that void. I think this signing gives me some peace of mind.

I don't think Carlsons best years are behind him, but I think we aren't far removed from that. Maybe another year or two of his better years ahead of him. It's a tough contract to deal with, absolutely will be going forward. I'm not mad that we signed him, but man 8 years at 8 per is a lot.

[BlackIce]

Timing is everything.


Carlson not only had a great season in his walk year, he happened to be coming up on UFA status in a year when the other RHD UFA's were relatively few, with none having anywhere near his pedigree.


Updating my post about the salary cap, the team now has 14 players officially on board with a total cap hit of $65.4 million, leaving them with $14.1 million and 8 players to sign.  Wilson is going to get somewhere between $3 million and $4 million in whatever contract he signs, I believe -- probably closer to $4 million.  Copley figures to be the backup goalie to start the season, with a $650,000 cap hit.  That gets us up to 16 players, needing at least 6 more to fill out the roster, and a little under $10 million of space.  That isn't a heck of a lot of room.  I'm hoping Bowey can be given a bridge contract of about $1.3 million for next year.  That's 17 players, 5 to go, with maybe as much as $8.5 million left.  If Kempny were to get, say, $2 million, that would leave $6.5 million for 4 players:  3 forwards and a swing defenseman.  And the team is going to want a bit of cap room available for injury callups during the year.  It is easy to see that guys like Beagle and Smith-Pelly get squeezed out in favor of young guys.  Maybe a Chaisson can be resigned if he agrees to something like, say, an $800,000 contract.  The seventh defenseman is probably going to be a Chorney type, cheap but somewhat veteran.  I don't see how Orpik will be that guy, but that's me.  Remember, he's a free agent getting buyout money, so his services probably won't be too expensive but he won't come dirt-cheap (close to minimum salary) either.

[Devise]

Timing is everything.


Carlson not only had a great season in his walk year, he happened to be coming up on UFA status in a year when the other RHD UFA's were relatively few, with none having anywhere near his pedigree.


Updating my post about the salary cap, the team now has 14 players officially on board with a total cap hit of $65.4 million, leaving them with $14.1 million and 8 players to sign.  Wilson is going to get somewhere between $3 million and $4 million in whatever contract he signs, I believe -- probably closer to $4 million.  Copley figures to be the backup goalie to start the season, with a $650,000 cap hit.  That gets us up to 16 players, needing at least 6 more to fill out the roster, and a little under $10 million of space.  That isn't a heck of a lot of room.  I'm hoping Bowey can be given a bridge contract of about $1.3 million for next year.  That's 17 players, 5 to go, with maybe as much as $8.5 million left.  If Kempny were to get, say, $2 million, that would leave $6.5 million for 4 players:  3 forwards and a swing defenseman.  And the team is going to want a bit of cap room available for injury callups during the year.  It is easy to see that guys like Beagle and Smith-Pelly get squeezed out in favor of young guys.  Maybe a Chaisson can be resigned if he agrees to something like, say, an $800,000 contract.  The seventh defenseman is probably going to be a Chorney type, cheap but somewhat veteran.  I don't see how Orpik will be that guy, but that's me.  Remember, he's a free agent getting buyout money, so his services probably won't be too expensive but he won't come dirt-cheap (close to minimum salary) either.

Regarding Orpik, I think we could probably sign him for 1-1.5. If we can get him on for a couple seasons at 1, he'd be able to finish out with the mentor role. I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of any of our draft picks competing for spots, at the very least our 31 pick. With his size and play style, I could very much see him edging out names like Bowey on the depth chart if he has a good camp.

[DC_1908]

   You are contradicting yourself. We won the cup with the system and Carlson was a huge part of it. Our system wasnt only a trap system. It involved dmen joining the rush. Also a big part of our success in the playoffs was due to our potent pp. Carlson was very important in that pp. We dont have anyone close to Carlson to play his spot on the pp. I know a lot of guys here aren't fans of Carlson but without him we dont win the cup. Not sure why some guys can't admit that.

I wouldn’t go that far.  Yoiu have a point about his spot on the PP but Carslon isn’t Nick Lidstrom, Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens. Chris Chelios, Shea Weber, Bryan Sutter, or  Drew  Dougherty. 


Carlson’s meal ticket is his offense, which is what he’s known for.  While I you are correct that not many Dman would be as effective in going from a trap to join on the rush, if he were to stay back and nog pinch/join in the offense is still he worth 7+m as Dman that will go up against the other teams top scorers every shift?

[4 Caps]

I wouldn’t go that far.  Yoiu have a point about his spot on the PP but Carslon isn’t Nick Lidstrom, Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens. Chris Chelios, Shea Weber, Bryan Sutter, or  Drew  Dougherty. 


Carlson’s meal ticket is his offense, which is what he’s known for.  While I you are correct that not many Dman would be as effective in going from a trap to join on the rush, if he were to stay back and nog pinch/join in the offense is still he worth 7+m as Dman that will go up against the other teams top scorers every shift?

You are correct that Carlson’s strength is his offense, however, he is not one dimensional.  He plays in all situations, in addition to playing on the PP he also kills penalties and plays against the opposition’s top forwards.  He leads the team in TOI.  No one is saying that he is another Bobby Orr or Nick Lidstrom or Scott Stevens.  However, he is one of the best RHD playing the game today and that is why he got the salary he did. 

[Devise]

You are correct that Carlson’s strength is his offense, however, he is not one dimensional.  He plays in all situations, in addition to playing on the PP he also kills penalties and plays against the opposition’s top forwards.  He leads the team in TOI.  No one is saying that he is another Bobby Orr or Nick Lidstrom or Scott Stevens.  However, he is one of the best RHD playing the game today and that is why he got the salary he did.

That all is fair and good but the counter argument is still, is it too much for us to give up? Was now the time to pass on Carlson? With Carlson, we are going to be reliant on even more kids from the farm in the D squad. If we don't pick up any other help and presuming we sign Kempny, it's Carlson/Kepmny and Orlov/Nisky. That top four D is very solid. But after that? Djoos needs a babysitter, and most of our D corps have yet to really show they could play in the 6th spot. Much less the 7th. And things start to look ugly if one of our top four get injured, because based on what we saw last season our D corps in the farm is far worse than our forward depth.


Players like Gersich and Walker stepped up in the playoffs on forward. Djoos and Jerabek were the only two that saw any time on the bottom pairing, and even then while Djoos finally settled a lot of that had to do with the resurgence of steady play from Brooks Orpik. Whom we are now missing yet.


It's a tough situation to be in. I think at the end of the day some of us can still argue that Carlson is a good player, but one given our team situation that we could of tried to pass on. I mean at what point are we thinking rebuild or retool anyways? Do we ride Ovie out? Kuzy is young as is a few of our other guys, but the moment one of our big name contracts starts underperforming we are in trouble because we have no means to stop gap for any help.

[Maacoshark]

I wouldn’t go that far.  Yoiu have a point about his spot on the PP but Carslon isn’t Nick Lidstrom, Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens. Chris Chelios, Shea Weber, Bryan Sutter, or  Drew  Dougherty. 


Carlson’s meal ticket is his offense, which is what he’s known for.  While I you are correct that not many Dman would be as effective in going from a trap to join on the rush, if he were to stay back and nog pinch/join in the offense is still he worth 7+m as Dman that will go up against the other teams top scorers every shift?

    I dont compare him to any of those dmen those guys are all top shutdown guys. You make it sound like Carlson is an offense only player. That just isnt the case. He isn't bad defensively. And he us a decent penalty killer. Just because you don't care vfor his game doesnt change that.
   Oh you mentioned Bobby Orr with all those shutdown dmen. Not sure if you watched Orr play or not. He was good defensively but he wasnt a shutdown guy. You could have included Larry Robinson and Denis Potvin in that list.

[Maacoshark]

You are correct that Carlson’s strength is his offense, however, he is not one dimensional.  He plays in all situations, in addition to playing on the PP he also kills penalties and plays against the opposition’s top forwards.  He leads the team in TOI.  No one is saying that he is another Bobby Orr or Nick Lidstrom or Scott Stevens.  However, he is one of the best RHD playing the game today and that is why he got the salary he did.

      Exactly

[4 Caps]

Actually our top prospects are defenseman.  I think you are going to see Siegenthaler and maybe even Johansson this year.  Unfortunately other than Bowey we are a little thin on RHD.  However, I think we can patch together a bottom pairing, I think they will start with Bowey and Djoos, assuming we don’t re-sign Orpik. 


As for when we might start to rebuild, I think we have two more years before we have to worry about that.  Holtby and Backstrom have two years left on their contracts and Ovie has three.  I think we should go all in on trying to win another Stanley Cup in these next two seasons. 

[Beaglefan2]

I don’t like 8 year contracts for anyone. There is a reason that a lot of guys play their best hockey in contract years. When you add big money to a long term deal, it’s just too tempting for young guys to coast a bit and live the high life.


Carlson was average at best during his last contract and then stepped it up for his contract drive. I hope I’m wrong but I think GMBM just got taken to the cleaners.

[Maacoshark]

I don’t like 8 year contracts for anyone. There is a reason that a lot of guys play their best hockey in contract years. When you add big money to a long term deal, it’s just too tempting for young guys to coast a bit and live the high life.


Carlson was average at best during his last contract and then stepped it up for his contract drive. I hope I’m wrong but I think GMBM just got taken to the cleaners.

    Carlson was a steal on his last contract. Less than 4 mil per season. Nothing wrong with that.
    I dont like 8 year deals either. By the end if that deal Carlson will be up there in age. On the plus side. In 8 years the market for a top dman will probably be 12 mil.

[Maacoshark]

Actually our top prospects are defenseman.  I think you are going to see Siegenthaler and maybe even Johansson this year.  Unfortunately other than Bowey we are a little thin on RHD.  However, I think we can patch together a bottom pairing, I think they will start with Bowey and Djoos, assuming we don’t re-sign Orpik. 


As for when we might start to rebuild, I think we have two more years before we have to worry about that.  Holtby and Backstrom have two years left on their contracts and Ovie has three.  I think we should go all in on trying to win another Stanley Cup in these next two seasons.

    We have Hobbs as a right hand def prospect.

[Maacoshark]

    Wondering what everyone thinks of our first round pick, Alex Alexeyev.
He could be a decent NHL dman. Doesnt really excel at one particular thing. But he doesnt have any big weaknesses either. He has some good size. Give him a couple years to fill out and add some strength and he could be a physical presence.