Offseason starts

[Maacoshark]

Let me rephrase “End Of The Road”,  to “back to buisness as usuall”


The roster was not built to run the system they won the playoffs with. The fact they accepted and executed an opposite style. is a bit of an anomaly.  I am concerned that the front office will keep doing what they have been doing, only instead of banking on a chance, thinking they will just do the same 180 each playoff.


So, if they are committed to this style and culture, there are subtle tweaks that can and should be made be made.   IE, an Offensive Dman/4th Forward isn’t going to get the totals he would in an offense first skill-system, so 7+ doesn’t make a lot sense.    Particularly when that can be split between two players that will subtract from the stats but otherwise excel in this style.

This offseason will require the same 180 of the front office as the players did.  I’m not sure they will or can

   I disagree that the Caps roster isn't built for that system. I skill team can play a solid team defensive system. We proved that in the playoffs. I really like the system we used in the playoffs. And I loved the physical play.
   We do have a handful of players that aren't ideal for the system. Kuzy is one of them but you can't replace that kind if skill. I think he has the best vision in the NHL. Vrana is another but he is still developing. Burakovsky is a guy that just doesnt seem to fit in.
   Our dcore is pretty solid. Yes they have some brainfarts. Niskanen and especially Orlov had some trouble in the defensive zone in the playoffs.
   And Carlson is way better defensively than any of you give him credit for. Really who is better on this team in the defensive zone? Niskanen maybe. Orpik when he is killing penalties. No one else.
    Kempny was a pleasant surprise. Struggled at first but played well in the playoffs. I'm an Orlov fan. He is a good skater and skilled player. He also plays with a bit of can edge but he still has a lot of brainfarts. Potential is there.
I don't mind Orpiks game. Love the physical play. Only problems with him is the age and salary.
I'm not a big fan of Djoos at all. Sure he is decent moving the puck but he has no strength at all. I know there are other dmen that don't play a physical game but Djoos gets knocked off the puck anytime there is any contact. He is the weakest  dman strengthwise  I have ever seen.

[DC_1908]

   I disagree that the Caps roster isn't built for that system. I skill team can play a solid team defensive system. We proved that in the playoffs. I really like the system we used in the playoffs. And I loved the physical play.
   We do have a handful of players that aren't ideal for the system. Kuzy is one of them but you can't replace that kind if skill. I think he has the best vision in the NHL. Vrana is another but he is still developing. Burakovsky is a guy that just doesnt seem to fit in.
   Our dcore is pretty solid. Yes they have some brainfarts. Niskanen and especially Orlov had some trouble in the defensive zone in the playoffs.
   And Carlson is way better defensively than any of you give him credit for. Really who is better on this team in the defensive zone? Niskanen maybe. Orpik when he is killing penalties. No one else.
    Kempny was a pleasant surprise. Struggled at first but played well in the playoffs. I'm an Orlov fan. He is a good skater and skilled player. He also plays with a bit of can edge but he still has a lot of brainfarts. Potential is there.
I don't mind Orpiks game. Love the physical play. Only problems with him is the age and salary.
I'm not a big fan of Djoos at all. Sure he is decent moving the puck but he has no strength at all. I know there are other dmen that don't play a physical game but Djoos gets knocked off the puck anytime there is any contact. He is the weakest  dman strengthwise  I have ever seen.

Iiiiii don’t know about that bro.  The Caps have been build with and for offenevse and skill almost exclusively with defense and defensive players relegated to second-class, if not flat out trash


I highly doubt GMBetaMale looked over this roster in Training Canp  saying “I’ve built a team that will win a  Cup running a trap/d first system

[Maacoshark]

Iiiiii don’t know about that bro.  The Caps have been build with and for offenevse and skill almost exclusively with defense and defensive players relegated to second-class, if not flat


I highly doubt GMBetaMale looked over this roster in Training Canp  saying “I’ve built a team that will win. Cup running a trap/d first system

    We have quite  few forwards that are pretty decent defensively. Some are even defensive specialists. Here is a list of forwards that are pretty defensively responsible. Backstrom, Oshie, Wilson, Stephenson, DSP, Beagle, Chaisson and Eller. Those guys are all defence first players. That's a pretty high percentage.
   And what is wrong with a skill team running a trap. You can still generate offence from the trap. Everyone remembers the Devils trap saying it was boring defensive hockey. I bet no one remembers that the Devils lead the league in scoring one of those seasons.
    I still disagree with your assessment of the team. Having a high skill team doesnt mean they can't play well defensively. If the players can buy into the system. If you had your way we would have 4 lines of Beagle clones. We would have alot of heart but would average less than a goal per game.
    They win the cup and you are still unsatisfied. In the end the only thing that matters is the Stanley Cup.

[Beaglefan2]

Please, please, please let Carlson go and wish him well. Somebody is going to way overpay for him and we can use that money elsewhere. We won the Cup, but that doesn't mean we have to re-sign a long-standing player. We have a lot of money tied up in 5 or 6 players and adding one more will just create long term problems.


I am afraid we will  be saying goodbye to Beagle.  He has been a relative bargain for years and I think the rest of the league now values him at a higher level than we will go. Well, if so..... he leaves with a Cup!!

[Maacoshark]

Please, please, please let Carlson go and wish him well. Somebody is going to way overpay for him and we can use that money elsewhere. We won the Cup, but that doesn't mean we have to re-sign a long-standing player. We have a lot of money tied up in 5 or 6 players and adding one more will just create long term problems.


I am afraid we will  be saying goodbye to Beagle.  He has been a relative bargain for years and I think the rest of the league now values him at a higher level than we will go. Well, if so..... he leaves with a Cup!!

    It will probably be us that overpays for him. He was a steal on his current contract.

[KitFisto]

Losing Beagle would suck, but he'll be 33 soon. I wouldn't want to give him more than a 2 year deal at this point. When guys hit 35 or 36 there is usually a big drop off in how effective they are. No, not in every case, but many.

[BlackIce]

Please, please, please let Carlson go and wish him well. Somebody is going to way overpay for him and we can use that money elsewhere. We won the Cup, but that doesn't mean we have to re-sign a long-standing player. We have a lot of money tied up in 5 or 6 players and adding one more will just create long term problems.


I am afraid we will  be saying goodbye to Beagle.  He has been a relative bargain for years and I think the rest of the league now values him at a higher level than we will go. Well, if so..... he leaves with a Cup!!

The one advantage to letting Carlson go is that then, given the presumed salary cap increase, we have money to sign everyone else, if we choose:  Kempny, DSP, Chaisson (though I think he's fungible), Beagle, and of course get all the RFA's signed, with potentially a long-term deal for Wilson.  The problem of course is filling Carlson's hole in the lineup.  It isn't just skill:  the guy is a horse -- durable, and plays 24-25 minutes a game.  The question is, who is going to fill his spot in the lineup?  Who is going to absorb those minutes?  Niskanen and Orlov are also playing heavy minutes, so can't absorb anything significant. Orpik is aging and can't absorb significant minutes.  So it has to be Kempny, kids, or an acquisition. 


Anyone else on the UFA market should cost substantially less than him, because no one else this summer is anywhere near as good.  Maybe Grubauer and Burakovsky together might fetch significant defensive help in a trade, but the problem may be that if we get somebody good they are going to be costly, and thus we wouldn't be in much better shape than we would be were we to sign Carlson, so that brings some of the other signings listed above back into question.  And if we didn't get somebody good, we'd simply be throwing away Grubauer and/or Burakovsky for no good reason.


So the question boils down to whether people want Carlson at the expense of a few of our other players from this year's team.

[DC_1908]

    We have quite  few forwards that are pretty decent defensively. Some are even defensive specialists. Here is a list of forwards that are pretty defensively responsible. Backstrom, Oshie, Wilson, Stephenson, DSP, Beagle, Chaisson and Eller. Those guys are all defence first players. That's a pretty high percentage.
   And what is wrong with a skill team running a trap. You can still generate offence from the trap. Everyone remembers the Devils trap saying it was boring defensive hockey. I bet no one remembers that the Devils lead the league in scoring one of those seasons.
    I still disagree with your assessment of the team. Having a high skill team doesnt mean they can't play well defensively. If the players can buy into the system. If you had your way we would have 4 lines of Beagle clones. We would have alot of heart but would average less than a goal per game.
    They win the cup and you are still unsatisfied. In the end the only thing that matters is the Stanley Cup.

Well aside of Beagle, Stephenson, and DSP, the rest are 200ft players at best. 


Those Devils teams (who where anything but boring), we’re absoluty not skill based, nor offensive first.  But they could lead the league in scoring anyway.  Hell The Wings under Bowman ran a trap, and they where loaded with defensive players, who could score when needed or the opportunity arose, but it was also defense first


Sure an offensive skill-first team can run a trap.  But for how long and how well will it be effective for players who are traditionally score only?  How long will it take for these guys to say “winning is great, but I wanna score and get the spotlight”?   How longare they gonna be happy with their stats going down?


Even then, why pay a skill player for points he had in an offensive system to play a defensive system, if a player who can play the defensive system better can be gotten for less (because his stats aren’t that high)? 


Us changing systems caught the last three teams by complete surprise and they failed to adjust to it.  That won’t happen anymore, and the “changing from videogames to real hockey and the flip of a switch” should not be counted on for the same reason.


Yeah we “finally” won a Cup, and what I want is this organization: Ted, Monumental, Dickless, and BetaMale to throw out what didn't win for the past 10-40yrs, and build on what won the last 16, even 6 games.

[Maacoshark]

   I don't have many issues with our roster if we play the style that we played in the playoffs. I like skilled players but my preference has always been solid defensive and physical hockey. I've always believed in taking care of your own end first.

[richkrt99]

Seriously DC,  we just won the cup and you're still on the Beta male kick? I'm not being an asshole, but are you ever happy? Like it or not GMBM made the moves to alter and bolster what McPhee left behind and it resulted in a cup. As much as it pains you the man deserves some credit. McPhee, whom you seem to love, only wanted puck moving d-men. BM did his best to at least add one physical guy in Orpik because he was the best available at the time. He moved out guys who didn't show up in the playoffs for us like Brouwer and got Oshie who just performed very well in the cup run. Yes, he made mistakes too like Shattencrap, but he's TRYING and he succeeded.

What do you want man?

I would go look it up, but I'm too busy and lazy...and incapable, but I ragged on DC at least couple years ago about this...
I said something about Caps could win three Cups in a row, going 48-0 on a three year SC run and he (DC) would not be satisfied and would still be calling them out for poor ownership, poor management, poor coaching, video game players with no heart, no effort, etc, etc.

I am grateful for our players and coaching and management and ownership.  The mantra that comes out when they fall short that they just don't care is horse puckey.  You can't get to this level of professional sports and play in the premier league of any sport....and not have heart.


So for now, I am Happy and will bask in the Glory of the ultimate prize MY TEAM brought home - after being a long suffering Caps fan.  I always loved and supported my team even when they fell short.  It did not hurt any less, but ragging on them for failure wasn't fair and does not make me feel any better.


(BTW - all this isn't pointed at DC, but just toward us fans in general)


SO much complaining on the boards about this years roster and all the mistakes management made before the season and blah, blah, blah....I'm pretty sure they know more than us....hence they run the team and we watch them play.


We just won the Stanley Cup - the hardest thing in team sports to do.  I'd say a lot of someones in the Caps organization did something rather well this year.


We complained about:  paying Kuzy too much money, the Orlov contract, the Oshie deal, the Eller deal, letting Alzner walk, giving up Mojo (who was always volcano bait until we trade him and suddenly he was great), letting Smitty go (yes this sucked, but we could not protect everyone, and which guy we kept over Smitty do you think we would have won the cup without?.  We hated Burka, Conolly, Kempney, etc, etc etc.)


The list of guys we as a whole have complained endlessly about on this team encompasses each and every player on this roster who played as a group and just overcame every obstacle and WON us THE STANLEY CUP
We should all now be eating crow and just saying thank you  and congratulations.


How about we congratulate them on a job well done and enjoy the long awaited success?


Do I think this team is built to be a dynasty that will continue for years to come?  No.  (What team can do that in this salary cap and free agent era anyway?)


Do I think this years Caps team played as a team, played above their skill level at times, and its sum was greater than its' parts?  Hell Yes.  We just won the Cup baby!


Did I think we were gonna get here this year?  Heck no.  Am I going to enjoy winning the cup anyway?  Hell Yeah.
I'm loving it.  I still can't believe it.  I am so happy for this team, not bitter about how long it took them to get here.




Go Caps


Hey DC...it just dawned on me....was it you that asked OVIE if he thought "we gonna suck this year?"   

[DC_1908]

I would go look it up, but I'm too busy and lazy...and incapable, but I ragged on DC at least couple years ago about this...
I said something about Caps could win three Cups in a row, going 48-0 on a three year SC run and he (DC) would not be satisfied and would still be calling them out for poor ownership, poor management, poor coaching, video game players with no heart, no effort, etc, etc.

I am grateful for our players and coaching and management and ownership.  The mantra that comes out when they fall short that they just don't care is horse puckey.  You can't get to this level of professional sports and play in the premier league of any sport....and not have heart.


So for now, I am Happy and will bask in the Glory of the ultimate prize MY TEAM brought home - after being a long suffering Caps fan.  I always loved and supported my team even when they fell short.  It did not hurt any less, but ragging on them for failure wasn't fair and does not make me feel any better.


(BTW - all this isn't pointed at DC, but just toward us fans in general)


SO much complaining on the boards about this years roster and all the mistakes management made before the season and blah, blah, blah....I'm pretty sure they know more than us....hence they run the team and we watch them play.


We just won the Stanley Cup - the hardest thing in team sports to do.  I'd say a lot of someones in the Caps organization did something rather well this year.


We complained about:  paying Kuzy too much money, the Orlov contract, the Oshie deal, the Eller deal, letting Alzner walk, giving up Mojo (who was always volcano bait until we trade him and suddenly he was great), letting Smitty go (yes this sucked, but we could not protect everyone, and which guy we kept over Smitty do you think we would have won the cup without?.  We hated Burka, Conolly, Kempney, etc, etc etc.)


The list of guys we as a whole have complained endlessly about on this team encompasses each and every player on this roster who played as a group and just overcame every obstacle and WON us THE STANLEY CUP
We should all now be eating crow and just saying thank you  and congratulations.


How about we congratulate them on a job well done and enjoy the long awaited success?


Do I think this team is built to be a dynasty that will continue for years to come?  No.  (What team can do that in this salary cap and free agent era anyway?)


Do I think this years Caps team played as a team, played above their skill level at times, and its sum was greater than its' parts?  Hell Yes.  We just won the Cup baby!


Did I think we were gonna get here this year?  Heck no.  Am I going to enjoy winning the cup anyway?  Hell Yeah.
I'm loving it.  I still can't believe it.  I am so happy for this team, not bitter about how long it took them to get here.




Go Caps


Hey DC...it just dawned on me....was it you that asked OVIE if he thought "we gonna suck this year?"   

No, but it of been a lot cooler if I did 


Basically, and on topic with this thread, I reject the Aristotelian Logic of:  We won The Cup, therefore the front office did a great job, therefore the front office is great and always has been.


Look everyone, (well about 98% of us anyway ), on this board has challenged the culture of this organization including their decisions, priorities, effectiveness, and even competence during Teds tenor owning the team if not before, including this season and at times during the playoffs. so to throw all of that out over the last 16, particularly 6 wins is not only illogical but irresponsible.


Hell most of the now traditional issues weve challenged  where on full display at times during this playoff run.


What it comes to is Ted, Dick and Monumental are now at a crossroads on what that path to take the origination:
- Become hockey and do the same things and add the with the assumption of winning
- to say the "build a fun and marketable team that has a chance to win a Cup" worked once so go back to normal
- the players accepted to play playoff hockey, and learned how to win. Nothing is guaranteed, having a chance isnt good enough, so throw that crap out and start building a team strictly to win more Cups and hell with everything else.


. . .given the history of the same ol' Caps front office, I have strong doubts they will be willing, or able to, make the same decisions and sacrifices, (including players, stats, sales, focus groups, marketing), that the players and coaches made to win the first Cup to not take another 13 years to do it again.

[Devise]

What a bummer. Trotz retires. I don't think Reirden is bad, don't get me wrong. But Trotz was so good for this youth movement, clearly he wants to end his long career on the high note he deserved. All the best to him, all that jazz. But still wish he'd of stuck it out here a bit longer. Tough to deal with.

[DC_1908]

What a bummer. Trotz retires. I don't think Reirden is bad, don't get me wrong. But Trotz was so good for this youth movement, clearly he wants to end his long career on the high note he deserved. All the best to him, all that jazz. But still wish he'd of stuck it out here a bit longer. Tough to deal with.

yep. . .   just heard and was looking for verification. . . .

[Devise]

yep. . .   just heard and was looking for verification. . . .

Yeah for as much as the argument in this thread is about whether or not the players themselves are capable of keeping up to such a high standard. To ignore the role Coaching played for us in these last playoffs would be crazy. Most of the news say he's "resigning" but all the rumors I've heard is that he wants to call it a career.

[Beaglefan2]

What I saw didn’t say he was retiring - just that he was resigning as the Caps coach. I didn’t see anything about Rierdon - was that announced?

[Devise]

What I saw didn’t say he was retiring - just that he was resigning as the Caps coach. I didn’t see anything about Rierdon - was that announced?

Neither is official, but both are the likely scenarios based on the rumors. Most analysts during playoffs were discussing Trotz lack of a contract likely more to do with his desire to spend more time at home, he has been coaching for quite some time. Some speculated, especially as we got deep that based on what they were hearing that if we won the Cup it was a likely chance Trotz retires.


The Reirden rumor I only heard about as the playoffs were going but some people were saying that it might of been the case earlier in the season. Regardless, with Trotz gone we still have 3 coaches technically. We were running 4, which isn't always the norm. We could go out and find a replacement, but with the talk of Reirden wanting a HC role anyways, and his history here I imagine that is the likely shoes to fill the role.

[richkrt99]

Wow.  Well good on Trotz I guess.


When was the last time a coach resigned/retired just after winning the cup? (especially his first cup)

[Beaglefan2]

I think it is clear from Trotz’s statement that he is resigning from the Caps, not retiring. I think Trotz is pissed that they didn’t sign him earlier and maybe he doesn’t have that great of a relationship with GMBM and management.


Hey, if the Caps told him he needed to win to get a new contract, good for them. It worked!

[Maacoshark]

Ah fuck. I really liked what Trotz did with this team. Not sure if anyone else will be able to get these guys to buy in. Wish Trotz the best in the future. Whatever that may be.

[DC_1908]

Wow.  Well good on Trotz I guess.


When was the last time a coach resigned/retired just after winning the cup? (especially his first cup)

Scotty Bowman, at least from coaching.  He became a consultant for The Wings after, and is now with The Jawks