Washington Capitals Fan Forum
Talk about Capitals hockey & more! => Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion => Topic started by: BlackIce on Wednesday June 13, 2018, 07:59:25 PM Eastern
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The heck with this political stuff. Back to hockey.
The Caps have to deal with Trotz. That's relatively straightforward. They either give him what he deserves money-wise and organization-wise and keep him, or they don't, and lose him. I suspect this is going to shake out one way or the other relatively soon so they can deal with Reirden in a fair way.
The player situation, well, that's more complicated. Carlson, Wilson, Beagle, Smith-Pelly, Kempny, Grubauer. They have to be dealt with one way or the other, and there simply isn't enough money to keep them all.
Carlson is the big fish, of course, and a lot of people around here complain about him. I'm presuming those people may understand that it would be good having him back, but not at $8 million AAV for the next 7+ years, which is probably what it is going to take to sign him. The problem with letting him go is that there is no other player that could reasonably be thought to be available that can replace what he brings to the table. Are the people who don't like Carlson willing to put up with the relatively greater shortcomings of the playerwho would take his minutes and his roles next season and beyond? Because you WILL have to put up with some of it if Carlson is no longer on the team.
I figure Wilson is a given to be resigned because of his RFA status, because he is considered so invaluable due to his role and style of play, and because he probably won't cost much more than half of what Carlson will to be resigned. But there is probably upwards of $4 million at least next season, and maybe a bit more if the Caps want to sign him longer-term.
There just isn't enough cap room to sign those two for what it will take and deal with the others. I don't think Beagle and Smith-Pelly can both be signed, so pick who you want. Kempny's situation is a matter of how much he is worth to others after having a kind of breakout mini-season with the Caps. And there may be a comparable defenseman to HIM that you can pick up over the summer. Grubauer I think is gone, because the team wants to do right by him and give him a chance to be a starting goaltender. So Copley will back up in net at least the first part of next season, and the Caps can always pick up a relatively low-cost journeyman if he doesn't work out. Then the team makeup will depend on what the Caps get for Grubauer, or MAYBE Grubauer and Burakovsky, who is my pick for someone to be dealt to help make Carlson/Wilson/Smith-Pelly work under the cap.
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Carlson - I would hope that we could get Carlson for $6-7 million because I think that would be a relative "steal" but I think you're right in that he'll probably go for $7-8 million. I'm more for keeping him because of the huge hole he'd leave in our roster if he were gone, and not necessarily because I think he's the best thing since sliced bread. For the record I think he's a very good Dman, but probably a tier below the top tier elite Dmen of the league (the Karlsson's and Doughty's, etc).
Wilson - Keep. He's really come along as a top line RW. I had my doubts about him previously but he's really developed. I actually feel comfortable with him on the wing opposite of Ovechkin. And having a solid RW on that top line with Ovie means one HUGE thing for the rest of our depth - Oshie can play on the 2nd line with Vrana and Backy, and Connolly and Burky can play with Eller. Without Wilson occupying that 1RW spot, people move up to spots they don't belong (i.e. Conno to 2RW because Oshie is bumped up, or Conno to 1RW to replace Wilson, or top line DSP).
Beagle - Keep. I still think he's that heart and soul workhorse type of guy who needs to be kept.
Kempny - Keep. He really helped provide some stability to our defensive depth. If we keep Carlson and Kempny, I will be very confident in our defensive group. Carlson, Niskanen, Orlov, Kempny, Djoos, and Orpik I feel like is a group I can really trust. Honestly if Orpik is your 6th man, I'm fine with that. Although in a perfect world, dumping Orpik's salary and getting a cheaper alternative for a 6th Dman would be better in terms of freeing up cap space
DSP - Yeah he came through in the clutch during the playoffs, which I am forever thankful for. But if cap space becomes tight, he's probably among the lowest on my priority list.
Grubauer - Funny how during the season I was wondering if it made financial sense to trade Holtby and stick with Gruby as a starter, simply to free up cap space. I'm now back on Team Holtby but believe that as much as I like Gruby, he deserves a starting role elsewhere.
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I say let Carslon go. His cost is inflated by his stats made from his fourth forward position. Sure he had a decent playoff, but not worth 7mil.
Keeping Kempny, and going for DeHaan or Cole, or a higher value option.
This is gonna be a interesting test for the Caps front office: do they start operating like Champions, or go back to just being OK with being a regular season team that has a chance in the playoffs
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Carlson is going to get 8+ somewhere. There are only a small handful of guys that can do what he does and whIle this board may not admit his defense improved as well. There is zero chance we get him to take 6-7 million IMO. I think the best discount you might get is 7.5 so I don't expect him back.
DSP will probably go. Someone will overpay him due to the playoffs. Thanks for the playoff heroics, but he was also a healthy scratch at times during the season and he's replaceable on the 4th line. You can't keep him and hope he repeats the playoff performance every year. Now if he wants to take a small raise and stay then by all ears he's welcome to.
Kempny was an amazing trade and I was asking "who"? when we got him. Need to keep him. He's a really steady guy once he settled in.
Gruby is trade bait at this point and everyone knows it.
Wilson isn't going anywhere.
Beagle I'd keep as long as someone else doesn't force a bidding war. Love the guys hard work and faceoffs. Hopefully he just wants to finish his career here.
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I'm not a fan of keeping Carlson at anything north of $7 million which he will get from someone, so I'm OK with him going. I don't think he is a strong defenseman and I think most, not necessarily all, of what he does offensively is attributable to his time on the top PP unit and can be replaced. I can see Nisaknen running the PP next year if Carlson goes. And since I didn't think his defense was all that impressive, I'm hoping either someone from Hershey develops [Bowey, Johansen are you listening?] or you use the money saved to go get a 2nd pairing defenseman to paur with Kempny. The question is whether GMBM has the balls to let him walk.
Keeping Wilson and trading Grubauer are no brainers.
Would love to keep Beagle. What he brings off the ice is as important as on the ice and hopefully we can strike a deal that keeps him here. Then again, I wanted to keep Hendricks, who didn't bring as much as Beagle does [aside from physicality] so some of this is sentiment.
Kempny grew on me, and most others, the longer he was here and he would be a nice 2nd line pairing for an offensive guy.
DSP was playoff $$ and with his restricted rights we might be able to keep him in the fold.
As others have noted, Carlson's payday can't be at the expense of the contracts we have coming up in the next two years.
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The only way keeping Carlson makes sense is if he stays paired up with Kepney, and he takes a minimal raise. That paring is the only reason Carlson had a better than average year.
We have absolutely no idea what these guys want for money, and except for DSP, none of them need more money. As long as they've been smart with it. Hockey seems to have smarter players in that regard than other sports as whole. Every now and then you get some guys that understand the big picture of the salary cap, and keep their demands minimal in order to get/retain quality team mates. We can only hope we have a few of those types on this team, and that the salary cap goes up to its max potential limit.
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The only way keeping Carlson makes sense is if he stays paired up with Kepney, and he takes a minimal raise. That paring is the only reason Carlson had a better than average year.
We have absolutely no idea what these guys want for money, and except for DSP, none of them need more money. As long as they've been smart with it. Hockey seems to have smarter players in that regard than other sports as whole. Every now and then you get some guys that understand the big picture of the salary cap, and keep their demands minimal in order to get/retain quality team mates. We can only hope we have a few of those types on this team, and that the salary cap goes up to its max potential limit.
This is gonna be another big factor, how much will they want to stay/stay together, and how well will GMBetaMale both convince them, to stay, take less and manage the cap accordingly?
Moreover, which ones are they most concerned about keeping and why?
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I say let Carslon go. His cost is inflated by his stats made from his fourth forward position. Sure he had a decent playoff, but not worth 7mil.
Keeping Kempny, and going for DeHaan or Cole, or a higher value option.
This is gonna be a interesting test for the Caps front office: do they start operating like Champions, or go back to just being OK with being a regular season team that has a chance in the playoffs
Well he is going to get at least 7 mil and I bet we are the ones to give it to him.
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The only way keeping Carlson makes sense is if he stays paired up with Kepney, and he takes a minimal raise. That paring is the only reason Carlson had a better than average year.
We have absolutely no idea what these guys want for money, and except for DSP, none of them need more money. As long as they've been smart with it. Hockey seems to have smarter players in that regard than other sports as whole. Every now and then you get some guys that understand the big picture of the salary cap, and keep their demands minimal in order to get/retain quality team mates. We can only hope we have a few of those types on this team, and that the salary cap goes up to its max potential limit.
Kempny got here late in the year. How does him playing with Carlson for a few regular season games make Carlson's strong season? That makes no sense.
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Well he is going to get at least 7 mil and I bet we are the ones to give it to him.
I’m afraid we will too.
Signing the most popular UFA fourth-forward to a big contract is par for the course for Dickless and BetaMale.
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I think GMBM will make another loooooooooong term deal to keep Carlson.. And you know what? I don't give a shit! Who cares, we have a cup!!
I hope we don't have to go to arbitration with Wilson. Hopefully they're on the same page.. If they need cap room, I'd shop Burt.. That's like 3 mil off the books..
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I’m afraid we will too.
Signing the most popular UFA fourth-forward to a big contract is par for the course for Dickless and BetaMale.
I disagree with your assessment. An offensive dman isn't close to being a 4th forward. Most if those type of dmen probably wouldnt do well playing forward.
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I think GMBM will make another loooooooooong term deal to keep Carlson.. And you know what? I don't give a shit! Who cares, we have a cup!!
I hope we don't have to go to arbitration with Wilson. Hopefully they're on the same page.. If they need cap room, I'd shop Burt.. That's like 3 mil off the books..
The Canes. Stars, Lightning. Flames. and Ducks have “a” Cup.
Most of those teams ceased being contenders shortly after winning it.
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Seriously DC, we just won the cup and you're still on the Beta male kick? I'm not being an asshole, but are you ever happy? Like it or not GMBM made the moves to alter and bolster what McPhee left behind and it resulted in a cup. As much as it pains you the man deserves some credit. McPhee, whom you seem to love, only wanted puck moving d-men. BM did his best to at least add one physical guy in Orpik because he was the best available at the time. He moved out guys who didn't show up in the playoffs for us like Brouwer and got Oshie who just performed very well in the cup run. Yes, he made mistakes too like Shattencrap, but he's TRYING and he succeeded.
What do you want man?
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Seriously DC, we just won the cup and you're still on the Beta male kick? I'm not being an asshole, but are you ever happy? Like it or not GMBM made the moves to alter and bolster what McPhee left behind and it resulted in a cup. As much as it pains you the man deserves some credit. McPhee, whom you seem to love, only wanted puck moving d-men. BM did his best to at least add one physical guy in Orpik because he was the best available at the time. He moved out guys who didn't show up in the playoffs for us like Brouwer and got Oshie who just performed very well in the cup run. Yes, he made mistakes too like Shattencrap, but he's TRYING and he succeeded.
What do you want man?
I want them to not continue operating under the same mindset of “score a lot and have a chance in the playoffs where anything can happen” that took ten years and a near act of god to result in a championship.
Nor do I want anyone to say “we did it, it’s the end of the road”
Everyone saw what worked in the playoffs, and what a seemingly 180 the mentality and mindset of the players and/orginization as whole made to do what worked. There is enough data to harvest, clutavate, design, and develop a new system and culture based first and foremost winning in the playoffs.
And that being the only goal.
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Well, I don't disagree at all with your sentiment, but I don't think anyone including those in the organization feel "we did it, end of the road". You make the point about them finally knowing what it takes so wouldn't it make sense to keep as much if that together as possible while also hoping GMBM ( who added the guys that helped make it happen ) would continue down that road?
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Trotz- think he'll definitely be back. The Islanders are the only current opening and who wants to go there, no matter the salary? I'm sure Trotz isn't hurting a bit and would probably take the home town discount to stay with this group and make another run.
Carlson- very good offensively and improving but not great defensively. I think we need the cap to be raised to keep him as there will be people coming out of the woodwork to put him on their PP. If the current cap is retained, I doubt we keep Carlson. Then, we either go shopping or put Orlov on the first team PP.
Wilson- keeping him is a no brainer. A deal will get done.
Kempny- would very much like to keep him. He became a solid player down the stretch and throughout the playoffs. Pretty good defensively and has some offensive skills as we saw. Think once he settled in, he was one of our best d-men. We should be able to keep him as I don't expect huge interest even with his postseason play.
Beagle- like to keep him. Relentless hustle and a premier faceoff guy. Don't think we'll have to overpay at 32 and doubt he wants to go anyway.
DSP- great playoffs but was it a one off? Keep him if it makes sense money-wise only.
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Well, I don't disagree at all with your sentiment, but I don't think anyone including those in the organization feel "we did it, end of the road". You make the point about them finally knowing what it takes so wouldn't it make sense to keep as much if that together as possible while also hoping GMBM ( who added the guys that helped make it happen ) would continue down that road?
Let me rephrase “End Of The Road”, to “back to buisness as usuall”
The roster was not built to run the system they won the playoffs with. The fact they accepted and executed an opposite style. is a bit of an anomaly. I am concerned that the front office will keep doing what they have been doing, only instead of banking on a chance, thinking they will just do the same 180 each playoff.
So, if they are committed to this style and culture, there are subtle tweaks that can and should be made be made. IE, an Offensive Dman/4th Forward isn’t going to get the totals he would in an offense first skill-system, so 7+ doesn’t make a lot sense. Particularly when that can be split between two players that will subtract from the stats but otherwise excel in this style.
This offseason will require the same 180 of the front office as the players did. I’m not sure they will or can
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The Canes. Stars, Lightning. Flames. and Ducks have “a” Cup.
Most of those teams ceased being contenders shortly after winning it.
Oh, I definitely reserve the right to change my feelings!! :rofl: But at the moment, I don't even hate Ted Leonsis... :raspberry:
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Oh, I definitely reserve the right to change my feelings!! :rofl: But at the moment, I don't even hate Ted Leonsis... :raspberry:
I bet that won’t last longer than November., maybe August :rofl:
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Let me rephrase “End Of The Road”, to “back to buisness as usuall”
The roster was not built to run the system they won the playoffs with. The fact they accepted and executed an opposite style. is a bit of an anomaly. I am concerned that the front office will keep doing what they have been doing, only instead of banking on a chance, thinking they will just do the same 180 each playoff.
So, if they are committed to this style and culture, there are subtle tweaks that can and should be made be made. IE, an Offensive Dman/4th Forward isn’t going to get the totals he would in an offense first skill-system, so 7+ doesn’t make a lot sense. Particularly when that can be split between two players that will subtract from the stats but otherwise excel in this style.
This offseason will require the same 180 of the front office as the players did. I’m not sure they will or can
I disagree that the Caps roster isn't built for that system. I skill team can play a solid team defensive system. We proved that in the playoffs. I really like the system we used in the playoffs. And I loved the physical play.
We do have a handful of players that aren't ideal for the system. Kuzy is one of them but you can't replace that kind if skill. I think he has the best vision in the NHL. Vrana is another but he is still developing. Burakovsky is a guy that just doesnt seem to fit in.
Our dcore is pretty solid. Yes they have some brainfarts. Niskanen and especially Orlov had some trouble in the defensive zone in the playoffs.
And Carlson is way better defensively than any of you give him credit for. Really who is better on this team in the defensive zone? Niskanen maybe. Orpik when he is killing penalties. No one else.
Kempny was a pleasant surprise. Struggled at first but played well in the playoffs. I'm an Orlov fan. He is a good skater and skilled player. He also plays with a bit of can edge but he still has a lot of brainfarts. Potential is there.
I don't mind Orpiks game. Love the physical play. Only problems with him is the age and salary.
I'm not a big fan of Djoos at all. Sure he is decent moving the puck but he has no strength at all. I know there are other dmen that don't play a physical game but Djoos gets knocked off the puck anytime there is any contact. He is the weakest dman strengthwise I have ever seen.
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I disagree that the Caps roster isn't built for that system. I skill team can play a solid team defensive system. We proved that in the playoffs. I really like the system we used in the playoffs. And I loved the physical play.
We do have a handful of players that aren't ideal for the system. Kuzy is one of them but you can't replace that kind if skill. I think he has the best vision in the NHL. Vrana is another but he is still developing. Burakovsky is a guy that just doesnt seem to fit in.
Our dcore is pretty solid. Yes they have some brainfarts. Niskanen and especially Orlov had some trouble in the defensive zone in the playoffs.
And Carlson is way better defensively than any of you give him credit for. Really who is better on this team in the defensive zone? Niskanen maybe. Orpik when he is killing penalties. No one else.
Kempny was a pleasant surprise. Struggled at first but played well in the playoffs. I'm an Orlov fan. He is a good skater and skilled player. He also plays with a bit of can edge but he still has a lot of brainfarts. Potential is there.
I don't mind Orpiks game. Love the physical play. Only problems with him is the age and salary.
I'm not a big fan of Djoos at all. Sure he is decent moving the puck but he has no strength at all. I know there are other dmen that don't play a physical game but Djoos gets knocked off the puck anytime there is any contact. He is the weakest dman strengthwise I have ever seen.
Iiiiii don’t know about that bro. The Caps have been build with and for offenevse and skill almost exclusively with defense and defensive players relegated to second-class, if not flat out trash
I highly doubt GMBetaMale looked over this roster in Training Canp saying “I’ve built a team that will win a Cup running a trap/d first system
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Iiiiii don’t know about that bro. The Caps have been build with and for offenevse and skill almost exclusively with defense and defensive players relegated to second-class, if not flat
I highly doubt GMBetaMale looked over this roster in Training Canp saying “I’ve built a team that will win. Cup running a trap/d first system
We have quite few forwards that are pretty decent defensively. Some are even defensive specialists. Here is a list of forwards that are pretty defensively responsible. Backstrom, Oshie, Wilson, Stephenson, DSP, Beagle, Chaisson and Eller. Those guys are all defence first players. That's a pretty high percentage.
And what is wrong with a skill team running a trap. You can still generate offence from the trap. Everyone remembers the Devils trap saying it was boring defensive hockey. I bet no one remembers that the Devils lead the league in scoring one of those seasons.
I still disagree with your assessment of the team. Having a high skill team doesnt mean they can't play well defensively. If the players can buy into the system. If you had your way we would have 4 lines of Beagle clones. We would have alot of heart but would average less than a goal per game.
They win the cup and you are still unsatisfied. In the end the only thing that matters is the Stanley Cup.
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Please, please, please let Carlson go and wish him well. Somebody is going to way overpay for him and we can use that money elsewhere. We won the Cup, but that doesn't mean we have to re-sign a long-standing player. We have a lot of money tied up in 5 or 6 players and adding one more will just create long term problems.
I am afraid we will be saying goodbye to Beagle. He has been a relative bargain for years and I think the rest of the league now values him at a higher level than we will go. Well, if so..... he leaves with a Cup!!
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Please, please, please let Carlson go and wish him well. Somebody is going to way overpay for him and we can use that money elsewhere. We won the Cup, but that doesn't mean we have to re-sign a long-standing player. We have a lot of money tied up in 5 or 6 players and adding one more will just create long term problems.
I am afraid we will be saying goodbye to Beagle. He has been a relative bargain for years and I think the rest of the league now values him at a higher level than we will go. Well, if so..... he leaves with a Cup!!
It will probably be us that overpays for him. He was a steal on his current contract.
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Losing Beagle would suck, but he'll be 33 soon. I wouldn't want to give him more than a 2 year deal at this point. When guys hit 35 or 36 there is usually a big drop off in how effective they are. No, not in every case, but many.
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Please, please, please let Carlson go and wish him well. Somebody is going to way overpay for him and we can use that money elsewhere. We won the Cup, but that doesn't mean we have to re-sign a long-standing player. We have a lot of money tied up in 5 or 6 players and adding one more will just create long term problems.
I am afraid we will be saying goodbye to Beagle. He has been a relative bargain for years and I think the rest of the league now values him at a higher level than we will go. Well, if so..... he leaves with a Cup!!
The one advantage to letting Carlson go is that then, given the presumed salary cap increase, we have money to sign everyone else, if we choose: Kempny, DSP, Chaisson (though I think he's fungible), Beagle, and of course get all the RFA's signed, with potentially a long-term deal for Wilson. The problem of course is filling Carlson's hole in the lineup. It isn't just skill: the guy is a horse -- durable, and plays 24-25 minutes a game. The question is, who is going to fill his spot in the lineup? Who is going to absorb those minutes? Niskanen and Orlov are also playing heavy minutes, so can't absorb anything significant. Orpik is aging and can't absorb significant minutes. So it has to be Kempny, kids, or an acquisition.
Anyone else on the UFA market should cost substantially less than him, because no one else this summer is anywhere near as good. Maybe Grubauer and Burakovsky together might fetch significant defensive help in a trade, but the problem may be that if we get somebody good they are going to be costly, and thus we wouldn't be in much better shape than we would be were we to sign Carlson, so that brings some of the other signings listed above back into question. And if we didn't get somebody good, we'd simply be throwing away Grubauer and/or Burakovsky for no good reason.
So the question boils down to whether people want Carlson at the expense of a few of our other players from this year's team.
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We have quite few forwards that are pretty decent defensively. Some are even defensive specialists. Here is a list of forwards that are pretty defensively responsible. Backstrom, Oshie, Wilson, Stephenson, DSP, Beagle, Chaisson and Eller. Those guys are all defence first players. That's a pretty high percentage.
And what is wrong with a skill team running a trap. You can still generate offence from the trap. Everyone remembers the Devils trap saying it was boring defensive hockey. I bet no one remembers that the Devils lead the league in scoring one of those seasons.
I still disagree with your assessment of the team. Having a high skill team doesnt mean they can't play well defensively. If the players can buy into the system. If you had your way we would have 4 lines of Beagle clones. We would have alot of heart but would average less than a goal per game.
They win the cup and you are still unsatisfied. In the end the only thing that matters is the Stanley Cup.
Well aside of Beagle, Stephenson, and DSP, the rest are 200ft players at best.
Those Devils teams (who where anything but boring), we’re absoluty not skill based, nor offensive first. But they could lead the league in scoring anyway. Hell The Wings under Bowman ran a trap, and they where loaded with defensive players, who could score when needed or the opportunity arose, but it was also defense first
Sure an offensive skill-first team can run a trap. But for how long and how well will it be effective for players who are traditionally score only? How long will it take for these guys to say “winning is great, but I wanna score and get the spotlight”? How longare they gonna be happy with their stats going down?
Even then, why pay a skill player for points he had in an offensive system to play a defensive system, if a player who can play the defensive system better can be gotten for less (because his stats aren’t that high)?
Us changing systems caught the last three teams by complete surprise and they failed to adjust to it. That won’t happen anymore, and the “changing from videogames to real hockey and the flip of a switch” should not be counted on for the same reason.
Yeah we “finally” won a Cup, and what I want is this organization: Ted, Monumental, Dickless, and BetaMale to throw out what didn't win for the past 10-40yrs, and build on what won the last 16, even 6 games.
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I don't have many issues with our roster if we play the style that we played in the playoffs. I like skilled players but my preference has always been solid defensive and physical hockey. I've always believed in taking care of your own end first.
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Seriously DC, we just won the cup and you're still on the Beta male kick? I'm not being an asshole, but are you ever happy? Like it or not GMBM made the moves to alter and bolster what McPhee left behind and it resulted in a cup. As much as it pains you the man deserves some credit. McPhee, whom you seem to love, only wanted puck moving d-men. BM did his best to at least add one physical guy in Orpik because he was the best available at the time. He moved out guys who didn't show up in the playoffs for us like Brouwer and got Oshie who just performed very well in the cup run. Yes, he made mistakes too like Shattencrap, but he's TRYING and he succeeded.
What do you want man?
I would go look it up, but I'm too busy and lazy...and incapable, but I ragged on DC at least couple years ago about this...
I said something about Caps could win three Cups in a row, going 48-0 on a three year SC run and he (DC) would not be satisfied and would still be calling them out for poor ownership, poor management, poor coaching, video game players with no heart, no effort, etc, etc.
I am grateful for our players and coaching and management and ownership. The mantra that comes out when they fall short that they just don't care is horse puckey. You can't get to this level of professional sports and play in the premier league of any sport....and not have heart.
So for now, I am Happy and will bask in the Glory of the ultimate prize MY TEAM brought home - after being a long suffering Caps fan. I always loved and supported my team even when they fell short. It did not hurt any less, but ragging on them for failure wasn't fair and does not make me feel any better.
(BTW - all this isn't pointed at DC, but just toward us fans in general)
SO much complaining on the boards about this years roster and all the mistakes management made before the season and blah, blah, blah....I'm pretty sure they know more than us....hence they run the team and we watch them play.
We just won the Stanley Cup - the hardest thing in team sports to do. I'd say a lot of someones in the Caps organization did something rather well this year.
We complained about: paying Kuzy too much money, the Orlov contract, the Oshie deal, the Eller deal, letting Alzner walk, giving up Mojo (who was always volcano bait until we trade him and suddenly he was great), letting Smitty go (yes this sucked, but we could not protect everyone, and which guy we kept over Smitty do you think we would have won the cup without?. We hated Burka, Conolly, Kempney, etc, etc etc.)
The list of guys we as a whole have complained endlessly about on this team encompasses each and every player on this roster who played as a group and just overcame every obstacle and WON us THE STANLEY CUP
We should all now be eating crow and just saying thank you and congratulations.
How about we congratulate them on a job well done and enjoy the long awaited success?
Do I think this team is built to be a dynasty that will continue for years to come? No. (What team can do that in this salary cap and free agent era anyway?)
Do I think this years Caps team played as a team, played above their skill level at times, and its sum was greater than its' parts? Hell Yes. We just won the Cup baby!
Did I think we were gonna get here this year? Heck no. Am I going to enjoy winning the cup anyway? Hell Yeah.
I'm loving it. I still can't believe it. I am so happy for this team, not bitter about how long it took them to get here.
Go Caps
Hey DC...it just dawned on me....was it you that asked OVIE if he thought "we gonna suck this year?" :P
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I would go look it up, but I'm too busy and lazy...and incapable, but I ragged on DC at least couple years ago about this...
I said something about Caps could win three Cups in a row, going 48-0 on a three year SC run and he (DC) would not be satisfied and would still be calling them out for poor ownership, poor management, poor coaching, video game players with no heart, no effort, etc, etc.
I am grateful for our players and coaching and management and ownership. The mantra that comes out when they fall short that they just don't care is horse puckey. You can't get to this level of professional sports and play in the premier league of any sport....and not have heart.
So for now, I am Happy and will bask in the Glory of the ultimate prize MY TEAM brought home - after being a long suffering Caps fan. I always loved and supported my team even when they fell short. It did not hurt any less, but ragging on them for failure wasn't fair and does not make me feel any better.
(BTW - all this isn't pointed at DC, but just toward us fans in general)
SO much complaining on the boards about this years roster and all the mistakes management made before the season and blah, blah, blah....I'm pretty sure they know more than us....hence they run the team and we watch them play.
We just won the Stanley Cup - the hardest thing in team sports to do. I'd say a lot of someones in the Caps organization did something rather well this year.
We complained about: paying Kuzy too much money, the Orlov contract, the Oshie deal, the Eller deal, letting Alzner walk, giving up Mojo (who was always volcano bait until we trade him and suddenly he was great), letting Smitty go (yes this sucked, but we could not protect everyone, and which guy we kept over Smitty do you think we would have won the cup without?. We hated Burka, Conolly, Kempney, etc, etc etc.)
The list of guys we as a whole have complained endlessly about on this team encompasses each and every player on this roster who played as a group and just overcame every obstacle and WON us THE STANLEY CUP
We should all now be eating crow and just saying thank you and congratulations.
How about we congratulate them on a job well done and enjoy the long awaited success?
Do I think this team is built to be a dynasty that will continue for years to come? No. (What team can do that in this salary cap and free agent era anyway?)
Do I think this years Caps team played as a team, played above their skill level at times, and its sum was greater than its' parts? Hell Yes. We just won the Cup baby!
Did I think we were gonna get here this year? Heck no. Am I going to enjoy winning the cup anyway? Hell Yeah.
I'm loving it. I still can't believe it. I am so happy for this team, not bitter about how long it took them to get here.
Go Caps
Hey DC...it just dawned on me....was it you that asked OVIE if he thought "we gonna suck this year?" :P
No, but it of been a lot cooler if I did 8)
Basically, and on topic with this thread, I reject the Aristotelian Logic of: We won The Cup, therefore the front office did a great job, therefore the front office is great and always has been.
Look everyone, (well about 98% of us anyway ), on this board has challenged the culture of this organization including their decisions, priorities, effectiveness, and even competence during Teds tenor owning the team if not before, including this season and at times during the playoffs. so to throw all of that out over the last 16, particularly 6 wins is not only illogical but irresponsible.
Hell most of the now traditional issues weve challenged where on full display at times during this playoff run.
What it comes to is Ted, Dick and Monumental are now at a crossroads on what that path to take the origination:
- Become hockey and do the same things and add the with the assumption of winning
- to say the "build a fun and marketable team that has a chance to win a Cup" worked once so go back to normal
- the players accepted to play playoff hockey, and learned how to win. Nothing is guaranteed, having a chance isnt good enough, so throw that crap out and start building a team strictly to win more Cups and hell with everything else.
. . .given the history of the same ol' Caps front office, I have strong doubts they will be willing, or able to, make the same decisions and sacrifices, (including players, stats, sales, focus groups, marketing), that the players and coaches made to win the first Cup to not take another 13 years to do it again.
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What a bummer. Trotz retires. I don't think Reirden is bad, don't get me wrong. But Trotz was so good for this youth movement, clearly he wants to end his long career on the high note he deserved. All the best to him, all that jazz. But still wish he'd of stuck it out here a bit longer. Tough to deal with.
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What a bummer. Trotz retires. I don't think Reirden is bad, don't get me wrong. But Trotz was so good for this youth movement, clearly he wants to end his long career on the high note he deserved. All the best to him, all that jazz. But still wish he'd of stuck it out here a bit longer. Tough to deal with.
yep. . . just heard and was looking for verification. . . .
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yep. . . just heard and was looking for verification. . . .
Yeah for as much as the argument in this thread is about whether or not the players themselves are capable of keeping up to such a high standard. To ignore the role Coaching played for us in these last playoffs would be crazy. Most of the news say he's "resigning" but all the rumors I've heard is that he wants to call it a career.
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What I saw didn’t say he was retiring - just that he was resigning as the Caps coach. I didn’t see anything about Rierdon - was that announced?
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What I saw didn’t say he was retiring - just that he was resigning as the Caps coach. I didn’t see anything about Rierdon - was that announced?
Neither is official, but both are the likely scenarios based on the rumors. Most analysts during playoffs were discussing Trotz lack of a contract likely more to do with his desire to spend more time at home, he has been coaching for quite some time. Some speculated, especially as we got deep that based on what they were hearing that if we won the Cup it was a likely chance Trotz retires.
The Reirden rumor I only heard about as the playoffs were going but some people were saying that it might of been the case earlier in the season. Regardless, with Trotz gone we still have 3 coaches technically. We were running 4, which isn't always the norm. We could go out and find a replacement, but with the talk of Reirden wanting a HC role anyways, and his history here I imagine that is the likely shoes to fill the role.
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Wow. Well good on Trotz I guess.
When was the last time a coach resigned/retired just after winning the cup? (especially his first cup)
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I think it is clear from Trotz’s statement that he is resigning from the Caps, not retiring. I think Trotz is pissed that they didn’t sign him earlier and maybe he doesn’t have that great of a relationship with GMBM and management.
Hey, if the Caps told him he needed to win to get a new contract, good for them. It worked!
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Ah fuck. I really liked what Trotz did with this team. Not sure if anyone else will be able to get these guys to buy in. Wish Trotz the best in the future. Whatever that may be.
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Wow. Well good on Trotz I guess.
When was the last time a coach resigned/retired just after winning the cup? (especially his first cup)
Scotty Bowman, at least from coaching. He became a consultant for The Wings after, and is now with The Jawks
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And now the next domino falls. The salary cap for next year was just announced at $79.5 million. I just don't see how that is going to be enough to sign Carlson for market value, give Wilson a healthy raise, AND fill out the rest of the roster, even if most of the rest are sub-million dollar players. The numbers just don't add up, unless a player or two with a larger salary is moved. One obvious candidate is Burakovsky. Even a Beagle won't save you very much, because his current hit is $1.75 million.
It really looks as though the choice comes down to either pay Carlson and Wilson and have close to minimum salary players fill out the last half-dozen spots on the roster, or let Carlson go, pay Wilson, and have significant room to sign whoever else of the vets you want -- and maybe even add a $2-3 million defenseman to occupy Carlson's spot (I won't say "replace him" because that's unreasonable to expect.)
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And now the next domino falls. The salary cap for next year was just announced at $79.5 million. I just don't see how that is going to be enough to sign Carlson for market value, give Wilson a healthy raise, AND fill out the rest of the roster, even if most of the rest are sub-million dollar players. The numbers just don't add up, unless a player or two with a larger salary is moved. One obvious candidate is Burakovsky. Even a Beagle won't save you very much, because his current hit is $1.75 million.
It really looks as though the choice comes down to either pay Carlson and Wilson and have close to minimum salary players fill out the last half-dozen spots on the roster, or let Carlson go, pay Wilson, and have significant room to sign whoever else of the vets you want -- and maybe even add a $2-3 million defenseman to occupy Carlson's spot (I won't say "replace him" because that's unreasonable to expect.)
This will really depend on the coach and the market.
Right now given the big salaries we already have, the cap space, Wilson and Holts coming up, and the questionable orginizational depth (Hershey finished last), I can’t see throwing 7-8m and a lot of years on one player.
Sure, it probably “could” be done, but it would all but certainly come back to bight us in the ass next year if not sooner.
I’m all for letting Carson go get 8m, and find a respectable Dman to take his spot at half the price.
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This will really depend on the coach and the market.
Right now given the big salaries we already have, the cap space, Wilson and Holts coming up, and the questionable orginizational depth (Hershey finished last), I can’t see throwing 7-8m and a lot of years on one player.
Sure, it probably “could” be done, but it would all but certainly come back to bight us in the ass next year if not sooner.
I’m all for letting Carson go get 8m, and find a respectable Dman to take his spot at half the price.
Completely agree with letting JC go. Please let someone else overpay him and use that "saved" money elsewhere. I'm afraid GMBM may see us in a short window with with Ovie and Backstrom and use that to sign Carlson to keep "the gang" together for a shot at a repeat. Carlson would be hard to replace, but $8M in cap relief to shore up others areas and hopefully get a serviceable D-man seems the better path to me.
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Grubs and Orpik to Avs for a 2nd
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Grubs and Orpik to Avs for a 2nd
That may seem like not a whole lot in return, but the key to the deal was not what they could get for Grubauer, it was getting rid of Orpik's salary. You can bet your booties that NOW they are going to do everything they can to sign Carlson and probably Kempny as well. One big problem with the Caps' salary structure all along was that Orpik's contract lasted one year past the end of Carlson's. Now that $5.5 million problem is gone, and they didn't even have to buy him out, which would have given some, but not as much, cap relief and dragged the issue out another year.
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Grubs and Orpik to Avs for a 2nd
Grubauer is a starting goaltender on practically any other team. Good for him and thankfully in the other conference.
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So here's where the team stands at this moment:
9 forwards, 3 defensemen, and 1 goalie currently signed and on the active NHL roster. They are
Ovie Kuzy __________
Vrana Backy Oshie
Bura Eller Connolly
Stephenson _______ __________
Orlov Niskanen
________ ___________
Djoos ___________
Holtby
So obviously, we need to sign, resign, or otherwise bring up to the roster 4 defensemen, 4 forwards, and a backup goalie at minimum; i.e., 9 players.
The current total cap hit of the 13 players listed above is $57.4 million, leaving us about $22 million under the $79.5 million cap.
If we sign Wilson (which is a certainty) and Carlson (far from a certainty), it will probably cost us somewhere between $11 million and $12 million of cap space, leaving us $10 million + for the other 7 players.
[/size][size=78%] Kempny, Smith-Pelly, and Beagle might cost us a total of $5-6 million, leaving us $4 million + for the other 4 players.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Bowey is almost a certainty to be on the roster full-time next year. He is due a bit of a raise, though I'd hope not too much of one -- maybe $1.3 million or so. The other 3 players would HAVE to be minimum salary players. This makes me think that not all of Kempny, Beagle, and Smith-Pelly are going to be signed, which would save a million or so dollars apiece if minimum-salary players are used instead. I think Kempny would be my first priority to sign, though with the good end of season he had someone might try to steal him out from under us.[/size]
[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Sorry about the change of font -- I don't know how that happened.[/size]
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It's been said in a few articles pheonix copley will backup holtbeast next year.
I believe he is on a minimum salary so there's another roster spot filled with little cap used.
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That may seem like not a whole lot in return, but the key to the deal was not what they could get for Grubauer, it was getting rid of Orpik's salary. You can bet your booties that NOW they are going to do everything they can to sign Carlson and probably Kempny as well. One big problem with the Caps' salary structure all along was that Orpik's contract lasted one year past the end of Carlson's. Now that $5.5 million problem is gone, and they didn't even have to buy him out, which would have given some, but not as much, cap relief and dragged the issue out another year.
Seems like it's all about the money now. So, we basically gave away Grubauer in order to lavish money on Carlson. Now, I think Carlson should be resigned but it wasn't too long ago that everybody hated him for his defensive lapses. I wonder how long it might be until that happens again, especially if we don't add a physical d-man to replace Orpik. Orpik was getting up there but he was reliable.
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Seems like it's all about the money now. So, we basically gave away Grubauer in order to lavish money on Carlson. Now, I think Carlson should be resigned but it wasn't too long ago that everybody hated him for his defensive lapses. I wonder how long it might be until that happens again, especially if we don't add a physical d-man to replace Orpik. Orpik was getting up there but he was reliable.
Oh, it's ABSOLUTELY all about the money. Now I realize you had images of getting more in return for Grubauer, and MacLellan said that he could have gotten at least a bit higher draft choice for Gruby alone. But before you pooh-pooh a mid 2nd round draft pick, remember that Grubauer was a 4th rounder. Adding Orpik actually detracted from the return, and in fact, the Avalanche have made clear that Orpik will not be in their organization when the season starts.
From the Caps' point of view, their choices boiled down to
(1) No Grubauer, the draft pick they got, Orpik still on the team next year, no Carlson
vs.
(2) No Grubauer, a better draft pick, Orpik and his salary cap hit gone, good chance to resign Carlson
The Caps chose (2). Would you have chosen differently?
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What is interesting is that Colorado has put Orpik on waivers for purposes of buying out his contract. If he clears waivers and Colorado buys out his contract he becomes an UFA and the Caps could re-sign him for 1.25 million and with the money he receives from Colorado he would be making the same as he did last season. If BMac pulls this off that would be amazing.
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What is interesting is that Colorado has put Orpik on waivers for purposes of buying out his contract. If he clears waivers and Colorado buys out his contract he becomes an UFA and the Caps could re-sign him for 1.25 million and with the money he receives from Colorado he would be making the same as he did last season. If BMac pulls this off that would be amazing.
Seems like that was the plan all along. Wouldn't shock me if Orpik and his agent also are fine with doing this. Everyone recognizes the business aspect here, and if Colorado had no interest in his contract, while he may see more dollar offers, with how tight the salary cap is and his age I don't see anyone having any problems with us coming in and getting him back for cheaper.
He'll probably be worse next season, but his play in the playoffs and leadership especially as more Hershey D are likely to come up is pretty much needed in the LR. If somehow our first rounder this season plays, or tries to get into the line up. Given Orpiks size, and play style, I'd much rather he be the one to work with and mentor that kid than some of our other veteran options.
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It's now early Sunday morning. At noon, other teams can start talking to Carlson/his agent about Carlson's services in preparation for the UFA feeding frenzy on July 1. MacLellan said during the draft that he would like to get Carlson signed before that deadline arrives. We'll see -- the clock is ticking.
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Let the clock run out. Signing Carlson to a 5+ year contract at $8 million a year would be a huge mistake.
Let’s re-sign Orpik on the cheap and sign Kempney. Bowey showed good promise last year and Djoos is ok. Then we have Orlov and Nisky and we see if any of our Prospects can provide some depth - or add a free agent.
Carlson had a good year and racked up some stats (funny how that happens in a contract year). For the long term, I really, really don’t want him at a big price.
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I have said it before but I will say it again the Caps have no chance of going back to back if they don’t re-sign John Carlson. However, I am confident that Carlson will be back next season. But I was confident that Trotz was returning too so we will have to wait and see.
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What is interesting is that Colorado has put Orpik on waivers for purposes of buying out his contract. If he clears waivers and Colorado buys out his contract he becomes an UFA and the Caps could re-sign him for 1.25 million and with the money he receives from Colorado he would be making the same as he did last season. If BMac pulls this off that would be amazing.
That would be a pretty good deal.
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Let the clock run out. Signing Carlson to a 5+ year contract at $8 million a year would be a huge mistake.
Let’s re-sign Orpik on the cheap and sign Kempney. Bowey showed good promise last year and Djoos is ok. Then we have Orlov and Nisky and we see if any of our Prospects can provide some depth - or add a free agent.
Carlson had a good year and racked up some stats (funny how that happens in a contract year). For the long term, I really, really don’t want him at a big price.
Carlson didnt just play well offensively. His overall game was very solid. I really really want us to sign Carlson but I hope its for less than 8 per. Dont want an 8 year deal either. I was hoping for 6 years at around 7.5 mil per season. I bet we give him more just because of the lack of options.
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You can hope all you want, but some other team WILL give him $8 million AAV for 7 years, so he isn't going to be resigned for less money AND less term.
If you don't want Carlson back by committing essentially that much to him, then you don't want him back, period. And I'm not being critical; there is a perfectly reasonable argument that he isn't worth that much, and we should pass on him. The issue, of course, is that we won't be able to replace him with a similar talent through UFA (money only), and replacing him with comparable talent through trade would cost serious assets in players/prospects/draft picks and probably open up other holes on the roster.
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You can hope all you want, but some other team WILL give him $8 million AAV for 7 years, so he isn't going to be resigned for less money AND less term.
If you don't want Carlson back by committing essentially that much to him, then you don't want him back, period. And I'm not being critical; there is a perfectly reasonable argument that he isn't worth that much, and we should pass on him. The issue, of course, is that we won't be able to replace him with a similar talent through UFA (money only), and replacing him with comparable talent through trade would cost serious assets in players/prospects/draft picks and probably open up other holes on the roster.
Well with the system we the Cup with, we don’t need to pay a top 5 or 3 point totaling Dman. So replanting him in with that mind could and should work to our advantage.
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Well, it is now 4 pm, well after the time when impending UFA's can begin talking to other teams. We have heard nothing about whether or not Carlson has been resigned, which I interpret as meaning he hasn't. Whether that means that talks have broken down, they are in the final stages of negotiating the crossed t's and dotted i's, there has been a mutual agreement that Carlson will talk to other teams, or whatever, we have no idea, because there seems to be a news blackout.
This situation, even more than the Trotz negotiation, is the linchpin of this offseason; almost everything else the team does this summer, with the possible exception of whatever deal they eventually give Wilson, hinges on what happens in with Carlson. It would be nice if the team would give us a status report, no matter how brief. (Ō_ƆŎ)
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Well, it is now 4 pm, well after the time when impending UFA's can begin talking to other teams. We have heard nothing about whether or not Carlson has been resigned, which I interpret as meaning he hasn't. Whether that means that talks have broken down, they are in the final stages of negotiating the crossed t's and dotted i's, there has been a mutual agreement that Carlson will talk to other teams, or whatever, we have no idea, because there seems to be a news blackout.
This situation, even more than the Trotz negotiation, is the linchpin of this offseason; almost everything else the team does this summer, with the possible exception of whatever deal they eventually give Wilson, hinges on what happens in with Carlson. It would be nice if the team would give us a status report, no matter how brief. (Ō_ƆŎ)
There is still a chance that they are letting Carlson talk to other teams intentionally. Some teams (see the Isles with Tavares this season and Bolts with Stamkos a few ago) prefer to do that to show some respect to the player. Let me know confirm that upon testing the field they can see their own team is giving them value they like etc.
It's all part of the process. In most cases when it gets this close to FA you usually end up seeing a signing either on FA to the same team, or a bit during. If he was a lock to come back with the team for sure though he'd of been signed well before the end of the season. So I think that is somewhat telling, and for players I think sometimes that plays a bit in it too right? You ain't willing to discuss this with me start of the season? Fine, then I'll at least exercise my right to hear from some other teams.
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Well with the system we the Cup with, we don’t need to pay a top 5 or 3 point totaling Dman. So replanting him in with that mind could and should work to our advantage.
You are contradicting yourself. We won the cup with the system and Carlson was a huge part of it. Our system wasnt only a trap system. It involved dmen joining the rush. Also a big part of our success in the playoffs was due to our potent pp. Carlson was very important in that pp. We dont have anyone close to Carlson to play his spot on the pp. I know a lot of guys here aren't fans of Carlson but without him we dont win the cup. Not sure why some guys can't admit that.
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Just heard rumors that the Caps are close to signing Carlson on an 8 year deal for 8 mil per season. Not sure if this is true. That's what I thought he would get. I was for something a bit lower in both money and the length.
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Just heard rumors that the Caps are close to signing Carlson on an 8 year deal for 8 mil per season. Not sure if this is true. That's what I thought he would get. I was for something a bit lower in both money and the length.
Looks like it's done. I don't think the term and salary are a surprise to anyone. It's a bit rich and the term is too long but I'm not against it because I don't know of many other high level right handed dmen who can work the PP and eat up minutes like he does that are available and cheaper than him. Losing him would leave a large void, although without him we might have gone for "defense by committee" and used that $8 million to grab two quality dmen (which would also take care of our 6th spot left open by Orpik).
I don't love the deal, but I don't hate it. I know it is going to bite us in the ass, but hopefully that'll be years from now and hopefully we'll get at least a handful of years where he plays like he's worth the $8 million...
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Looks like it's done. I don't think the term and salary are a surprise to anyone. It's a bit rich and the term is too long but I'm not against it because I don't know of many other high level right handed dmen who can work the PP and eat up minutes like he does that are available and cheaper than him. Losing him would leave a large void, although without him we might have gone for "defense by committee" and used that $8 million to grab two quality dmen (which would also take care of our 6th spot left open by Orpik).
I don't love the deal, but I don't hate it. I know it is going to bite us in the ass, but hopefully that'll be years from now and hopefully we'll get at least a handful of years where he plays like he's worth the $8 million...
I feel pretty much the same way about the deal. Dont love the deal but dont hate it either.
I think there will be some disappointed guys here.
As for the 6th we have plenty of prospects that could fill that spot. Who knows Orpik may be back yet.
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Its official, Carlson is coming back. BMac did what he had to do to get him signed. While the contract is a bit pricey, in a few years it won’t be that pricey compared to what other defenseman are getting. His contract makes him the third highest paid defenseman right now but as other defenseman come on the market and get paid he will rapidly fall from the top group. I am happy and relieved that Carlson is signed, hopefully Kempny will soon follow.
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Its official, Carlson is coming back. BMac did what he had to do to get him signed. While the contract is a bit pricey, in a few years it won’t be that pricey compared to what other defenseman are getting. His contract makes him the third highest paid defenseman right now but as other defenseman come on the market and get paid he will rapidly fall from the top group. I am happy and relieved that Carlson is signed, hopefully Kempny will soon follow.
In a few years it's going to look pricey as age becomes a factor. It is an overpay but I feel like it is a necessary evil. I wouldn't want to worry about how we're filling that void. I think this signing gives me some peace of mind.
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In a few years it's going to look pricey as age becomes a factor. It is an overpay but I feel like it is a necessary evil. I wouldn't want to worry about how we're filling that void. I think this signing gives me some peace of mind.
I don't think Carlsons best years are behind him, but I think we aren't far removed from that. Maybe another year or two of his better years ahead of him. It's a tough contract to deal with, absolutely will be going forward. I'm not mad that we signed him, but man 8 years at 8 per is a lot.
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Timing is everything.
Carlson not only had a great season in his walk year, he happened to be coming up on UFA status in a year when the other RHD UFA's were relatively few, with none having anywhere near his pedigree.
Updating my post about the salary cap, the team now has 14 players officially on board with a total cap hit of $65.4 million, leaving them with $14.1 million and 8 players to sign. Wilson is going to get somewhere between $3 million and $4 million in whatever contract he signs, I believe -- probably closer to $4 million. Copley figures to be the backup goalie to start the season, with a $650,000 cap hit. That gets us up to 16 players, needing at least 6 more to fill out the roster, and a little under $10 million of space. That isn't a heck of a lot of room. I'm hoping Bowey can be given a bridge contract of about $1.3 million for next year. That's 17 players, 5 to go, with maybe as much as $8.5 million left. If Kempny were to get, say, $2 million, that would leave $6.5 million for 4 players: 3 forwards and a swing defenseman. And the team is going to want a bit of cap room available for injury callups during the year. It is easy to see that guys like Beagle and Smith-Pelly get squeezed out in favor of young guys. Maybe a Chaisson can be resigned if he agrees to something like, say, an $800,000 contract. The seventh defenseman is probably going to be a Chorney type, cheap but somewhat veteran. I don't see how Orpik will be that guy, but that's me. Remember, he's a free agent getting buyout money, so his services probably won't be too expensive but he won't come dirt-cheap (close to minimum salary) either.
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Timing is everything.
Carlson not only had a great season in his walk year, he happened to be coming up on UFA status in a year when the other RHD UFA's were relatively few, with none having anywhere near his pedigree.
Updating my post about the salary cap, the team now has 14 players officially on board with a total cap hit of $65.4 million, leaving them with $14.1 million and 8 players to sign. Wilson is going to get somewhere between $3 million and $4 million in whatever contract he signs, I believe -- probably closer to $4 million. Copley figures to be the backup goalie to start the season, with a $650,000 cap hit. That gets us up to 16 players, needing at least 6 more to fill out the roster, and a little under $10 million of space. That isn't a heck of a lot of room. I'm hoping Bowey can be given a bridge contract of about $1.3 million for next year. That's 17 players, 5 to go, with maybe as much as $8.5 million left. If Kempny were to get, say, $2 million, that would leave $6.5 million for 4 players: 3 forwards and a swing defenseman. And the team is going to want a bit of cap room available for injury callups during the year. It is easy to see that guys like Beagle and Smith-Pelly get squeezed out in favor of young guys. Maybe a Chaisson can be resigned if he agrees to something like, say, an $800,000 contract. The seventh defenseman is probably going to be a Chorney type, cheap but somewhat veteran. I don't see how Orpik will be that guy, but that's me. Remember, he's a free agent getting buyout money, so his services probably won't be too expensive but he won't come dirt-cheap (close to minimum salary) either.
Regarding Orpik, I think we could probably sign him for 1-1.5. If we can get him on for a couple seasons at 1, he'd be able to finish out with the mentor role. I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of any of our draft picks competing for spots, at the very least our 31 pick. With his size and play style, I could very much see him edging out names like Bowey on the depth chart if he has a good camp.
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You are contradicting yourself. We won the cup with the system and Carlson was a huge part of it. Our system wasnt only a trap system. It involved dmen joining the rush. Also a big part of our success in the playoffs was due to our potent pp. Carlson was very important in that pp. We dont have anyone close to Carlson to play his spot on the pp. I know a lot of guys here aren't fans of Carlson but without him we dont win the cup. Not sure why some guys can't admit that.
I wouldn’t go that far. Yoiu have a point about his spot on the PP but Carslon isn’t Nick Lidstrom, Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens. Chris Chelios, Shea Weber, Bryan Sutter, or Drew Dougherty.
Carlson’s meal ticket is his offense, which is what he’s known for. While I you are correct that not many Dman would be as effective in going from a trap to join on the rush, if he were to stay back and nog pinch/join in the offense is still he worth 7+m as Dman that will go up against the other teams top scorers every shift?
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I wouldn’t go that far. Yoiu have a point about his spot on the PP but Carslon isn’t Nick Lidstrom, Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens. Chris Chelios, Shea Weber, Bryan Sutter, or Drew Dougherty.
Carlson’s meal ticket is his offense, which is what he’s known for. While I you are correct that not many Dman would be as effective in going from a trap to join on the rush, if he were to stay back and nog pinch/join in the offense is still he worth 7+m as Dman that will go up against the other teams top scorers every shift?
You are correct that Carlson’s strength is his offense, however, he is not one dimensional. He plays in all situations, in addition to playing on the PP he also kills penalties and plays against the opposition’s top forwards. He leads the team in TOI. No one is saying that he is another Bobby Orr or Nick Lidstrom or Scott Stevens. However, he is one of the best RHD playing the game today and that is why he got the salary he did.
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You are correct that Carlson’s strength is his offense, however, he is not one dimensional. He plays in all situations, in addition to playing on the PP he also kills penalties and plays against the opposition’s top forwards. He leads the team in TOI. No one is saying that he is another Bobby Orr or Nick Lidstrom or Scott Stevens. However, he is one of the best RHD playing the game today and that is why he got the salary he did.
That all is fair and good but the counter argument is still, is it too much for us to give up? Was now the time to pass on Carlson? With Carlson, we are going to be reliant on even more kids from the farm in the D squad. If we don't pick up any other help and presuming we sign Kempny, it's Carlson/Kepmny and Orlov/Nisky. That top four D is very solid. But after that? Djoos needs a babysitter, and most of our D corps have yet to really show they could play in the 6th spot. Much less the 7th. And things start to look ugly if one of our top four get injured, because based on what we saw last season our D corps in the farm is far worse than our forward depth.
Players like Gersich and Walker stepped up in the playoffs on forward. Djoos and Jerabek were the only two that saw any time on the bottom pairing, and even then while Djoos finally settled a lot of that had to do with the resurgence of steady play from Brooks Orpik. Whom we are now missing yet.
It's a tough situation to be in. I think at the end of the day some of us can still argue that Carlson is a good player, but one given our team situation that we could of tried to pass on. I mean at what point are we thinking rebuild or retool anyways? Do we ride Ovie out? Kuzy is young as is a few of our other guys, but the moment one of our big name contracts starts underperforming we are in trouble because we have no means to stop gap for any help.
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I wouldn’t go that far. Yoiu have a point about his spot on the PP but Carslon isn’t Nick Lidstrom, Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens. Chris Chelios, Shea Weber, Bryan Sutter, or Drew Dougherty.
Carlson’s meal ticket is his offense, which is what he’s known for. While I you are correct that not many Dman would be as effective in going from a trap to join on the rush, if he were to stay back and nog pinch/join in the offense is still he worth 7+m as Dman that will go up against the other teams top scorers every shift?
I dont compare him to any of those dmen those guys are all top shutdown guys. You make it sound like Carlson is an offense only player. That just isnt the case. He isn't bad defensively. And he us a decent penalty killer. Just because you don't care vfor his game doesnt change that.
Oh you mentioned Bobby Orr with all those shutdown dmen. Not sure if you watched Orr play or not. He was good defensively but he wasnt a shutdown guy. You could have included Larry Robinson and Denis Potvin in that list.
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You are correct that Carlson’s strength is his offense, however, he is not one dimensional. He plays in all situations, in addition to playing on the PP he also kills penalties and plays against the opposition’s top forwards. He leads the team in TOI. No one is saying that he is another Bobby Orr or Nick Lidstrom or Scott Stevens. However, he is one of the best RHD playing the game today and that is why he got the salary he did.
Exactly
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Actually our top prospects are defenseman. I think you are going to see Siegenthaler and maybe even Johansson this year. Unfortunately other than Bowey we are a little thin on RHD. However, I think we can patch together a bottom pairing, I think they will start with Bowey and Djoos, assuming we don’t re-sign Orpik.
As for when we might start to rebuild, I think we have two more years before we have to worry about that. Holtby and Backstrom have two years left on their contracts and Ovie has three. I think we should go all in on trying to win another Stanley Cup in these next two seasons.
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I don’t like 8 year contracts for anyone. There is a reason that a lot of guys play their best hockey in contract years. When you add big money to a long term deal, it’s just too tempting for young guys to coast a bit and live the high life.
Carlson was average at best during his last contract and then stepped it up for his contract drive. I hope I’m wrong but I think GMBM just got taken to the cleaners.
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I don’t like 8 year contracts for anyone. There is a reason that a lot of guys play their best hockey in contract years. When you add big money to a long term deal, it’s just too tempting for young guys to coast a bit and live the high life.
Carlson was average at best during his last contract and then stepped it up for his contract drive. I hope I’m wrong but I think GMBM just got taken to the cleaners.
Carlson was a steal on his last contract. Less than 4 mil per season. Nothing wrong with that.
I dont like 8 year deals either. By the end if that deal Carlson will be up there in age. On the plus side. In 8 years the market for a top dman will probably be 12 mil.
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Actually our top prospects are defenseman. I think you are going to see Siegenthaler and maybe even Johansson this year. Unfortunately other than Bowey we are a little thin on RHD. However, I think we can patch together a bottom pairing, I think they will start with Bowey and Djoos, assuming we don’t re-sign Orpik.
As for when we might start to rebuild, I think we have two more years before we have to worry about that. Holtby and Backstrom have two years left on their contracts and Ovie has three. I think we should go all in on trying to win another Stanley Cup in these next two seasons.
We have Hobbs as a right hand def prospect.
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Wondering what everyone thinks of our first round pick, Alex Alexeyev.
He could be a decent NHL dman. Doesnt really excel at one particular thing. But he doesnt have any big weaknesses either. He has some good size. Give him a couple years to fill out and add some strength and he could be a physical presence.
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I dont compare him to any of those dmen those guys are all top shutdown guys. You make it sound like Carlson is an offense only player. That just isnt the case. He isn't bad defensively. And he us a decent penalty killer. Just because you don't care vfor his game doesnt change that.
Oh you mentioned Bobby Orr with all those shutdown dmen. Not sure if you watched Orr play or not. He was good defensively but he wasnt a shutdown guy. You could have included Larry Robinson and Denis Potvin in that list.
Funny how, when we talk about whether or not Carlson is a shutdown defenseman, we're comparing him to guys who played decades ago. (We could add Langway to the list, by the way). Thing is, the rules of the game, the capabilities of the players, and the nature of the play is NOTHING like it was decades ago.
I really wonder if any of the players that have been mentioned in recent posts would be anywhere near as effective now as they were decades ago. I would define a "shutdown defenseman" as a person who, with reasonable defensive support from his teammates, can dominate play in the defensive zone (turn over puck control, deny quality scoring chances in the slot, not make dumb mistakes that lead to quality scoring chances for the opposition) to such an extent that he alone can virtually eliminate offense from the opponent when he is on the ice. I don't know that such a player exists anymore, because the nature of the game is now such that 5-man defense is imperative, especially as the intensity of play ramps up.
If we faced a "shutdown defenseman" in this year's playoffs, it was probably Victor Hedman -- and he was a -7 in the Caps/Tampa series. To be blunt, he didn't shut down diddly squat. The entire concept of a "shutdown defenseman" may be one that is receding due to the evolution of rules and the nature of play. The bevy of defensemen selected in the first round of the just-completed draft certainly suggests that; the small, quick defenseman with offensive strike capability was what everyone was looking for.
Now in DC's world, all that means is that all the GM's are stupid and they aren't building to COUNTERACT what everyone else is doing. I'm presuming that he would then be relatively happy with the Caps selecting Alexeyev, who has the potential to be a sturdy, rugged defenseman (assuming he gets with the weight/nutritional program) that could clear the slot and defend by pushing smaller people around. We'll see how that works out.
But back to Carlson: I don't know that it is fair to compare him to shutdown defensemen of a generation or more ago. It isn't fair to him, and it may not be fair to the nature of today's game. His contract will undoubtedly be a large overpay in the last half of it. We can hope that he pays dividends commensurate with his cost in the first half (his 29-32 year seasons; arguably his prime). My big concern with Carlson is that he has already played 8 or 9 rugged, essentially full seasons of duty as a top defenseman with lots of TOI. The guy is a horse, but there is always the possibility that injury or general wear and tear could deteriorate his play and make his contract an albatross sooner rather than later (cf Karl Alzner.) That's the risk the organization takes to lock down the services of clearly one of the best all-around defensemen around right now in a market where the alternatives were, frankly, unpalatable.
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Funny how, when we talk about whether or not Carlson is a shutdown defenseman, we're comparing him to guys who played decades ago. (We could add Langway to the list, by the way). Thing is, the rules of the game, the capabilities of the players, and the nature of the play is NOTHING like it was decades ago.
I really wonder if any of the players that have been mentioned in recent posts would be anywhere near as effective now as they were decades ago. I would define a "shutdown defenseman" as a person who, with reasonable defensive support from his teammates, can dominate play in the defensive zone (turn over puck control, deny quality scoring chances in the slot, not make dumb mistakes that lead to quality scoring chances for the opposition) to such an extent that he alone can virtually eliminate offense from the opponent when he is on the ice. I don't know that such a player exists anymore, because the nature of the game is now such that 5-man defense is imperative, especially as the intensity of play ramps up.
If we faced a "shutdown defenseman" in this year's playoffs, it was probably Victor Hedman -- and he was a -7 in the Caps/Tampa series. To be blunt, he didn't shut down diddly squat. The entire concept of a "shutdown defenseman" may be one that is receding due to the evolution of rules and the nature of play. The bevy of defensemen selected in the first round of the just-completed draft certainly suggests that; the small, quick defenseman with offensive strike capability was what everyone was looking for.
Now in DC's world, all that means is that all the GM's are stupid and they aren't building to COUNTERACT what everyone else is doing. I'm presuming that he would then be relatively happy with the Caps selecting Alexeyev, who has the potential to be a sturdy, rugged defenseman (assuming he gets with the weight/nutritional program) that could clear the slot and defend by pushing smaller people around. We'll see how that works out.
But back to Carlson: I don't know that it is fair to compare him to shutdown defensemen of a generation or more ago. It isn't fair to him, and it may not be fair to the nature of today's game. His contract will undoubtedly be a large overpay in the last half of it. We can hope that he pays dividends commensurate with his cost in the first half (his 29-32 year seasons; arguably his prime). My big concern with Carlson is that he has already played 8 or 9 rugged, essentially full seasons of duty as a top defenseman with lots of TOI. The guy is a horse, but there is always the possibility that injury or general wear and tear could deteriorate his play and make his contract an albatross sooner rather than later (cf Karl Alzner.) That's the risk the organization takes to lock down the services of clearly one of the best all-around defensemen around right now in a market where the alternatives were, frankly, unpalatable.
Oh come fuck on, glad you like "wamans" hockey so much. Gee maybe the NHL will ban fighting, all contact, suspend players who bench to much, and go co-ed before the end of your lifetime! Thats they way society is going so therefore it must be great and we must obey, right?
BTW, if you don't think shutdown D players exist anymore, either you don't watch much hockey, or you are just trying to agitate me.
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So DC ... let me ask you this. In the league, right now, tell me the names of at least 2 or 3 of your goon/shut-down defensemen - ie. the guys you would want to populate our blue line.
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Funny how, when we talk about whether or not Carlson is a shutdown defenseman, we're comparing him to guys who played decades ago. (We could add Langway to the list, by the way). Thing is, the rules of the game, the capabilities of the players, and the nature of the play is NOTHING like it was decades ago.
I really wonder if any of the players that have been mentioned in recent posts would be anywhere near as effective now as they were decades ago. I would define a "shutdown defenseman" as a person who, with reasonable defensive support from his teammates, can dominate play in the defensive zone (turn over puck control, deny quality scoring chances in the slot, not make dumb mistakes that lead to quality scoring chances for the opposition) to such an extent that he alone can virtually eliminate offense from the opponent when he is on the ice. I don't know that such a player exists anymore, because the nature of the game is now such that 5-man defense is imperative, especially as the intensity of play ramps up.
If we faced a "shutdown defenseman" in this year's playoffs, it was probably Victor Hedman -- and he was a -7 in the Caps/Tampa series. To be blunt, he didn't shut down diddly squat. The entire concept of a "shutdown defenseman" may be one that is receding due to the evolution of rules and the nature of play. The bevy of defensemen selected in the first round of the just-completed draft certainly suggests that; the small, quick defenseman with offensive strike capability was what everyone was looking for.
Now in DC's world, all that means is that all the GM's are stupid and they aren't building to COUNTERACT what everyone else is doing. I'm presuming that he would then be relatively happy with the Caps selecting Alexeyev, who has the potential to be a sturdy, rugged defenseman (assuming he gets with the weight/nutritional program) that could clear the slot and defend by pushing smaller people around. We'll see how that works out.
But back to Carlson: I don't know that it is fair to compare him to shutdown defensemen of a generation or more ago. It isn't fair to him, and it may not be fair to the nature of today's game. His contract will undoubtedly be a large overpay in the last half of it. We can hope that he pays dividends commensurate with his cost in the first half (his 29-32 year seasons; arguably his prime). My big concern with Carlson is that he has already played 8 or 9 rugged, essentially full seasons of duty as a top defenseman with lots of TOI. The guy is a horse, but there is always the possibility that injury or general wear and tear could deteriorate his play and make his contract an albatross sooner rather than later (cf Karl Alzner.) That's the risk the organization takes to lock down the services of clearly one of the best all-around defensemen around right now in a market where the alternatives were, frankly, unpalatable.
And here’s a few glimpses of what a Dman, both shutdown & 200ft, not just a 4th forward, looks like in todays game. Granted the years are adding up for him, but he’s still quitely one of the best.
I’ll warn you this is pretty violent . . .
https://youtu.be/c1nm4L6QBvY (https://youtu.be/c1nm4L6QBvY)
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So DC ... let me ask you this. In the league, right now, tell me the names of at least 2 or 3 of your goon/shut-down defensemen - ie. the guys you would want to populate our blue line.
Well, with out cap considerations, or lets just say players in the style of:
- Sutter
- Hedman
- Burns
- Chara
- Dougherty
- Webber
- D Buff (his last name is a bitch to spell)
- Phanuef
- Keith
- Kronwall
- Methot
- Olesniak
- Millar
- Bieksa
- McNabb
- McQuaid
- Stephen Johns
- Martinez
to name a but a few of the physical shutdown defenseman that according to some "canot play in this league anymore".
While they are smart enough to run a PP, or have a heavy enough shot in Burns case, to contribute offensively, it can safely be said that their primary assignments are defending against the top scorers of the other team, not trying to toe-drag and dangle behind the other teams net shortly followed by coasting watching the other teams odd-man rush and/or break away because no ones there to stop it.
Sure I listed some superstars that are some of the highest players in the league up there, but I also threw in a few little to unknown ones as well. If you go through the reports of of most NHL teams, you will see more shutdown/defensive defenseman on the current roster and in the systems than most would think or acknowledge existed. This type of player doesn't get numbers and doesn't get much attention/hype/promotion except when the ones they are playing against aren't scoring, or a hit/fight extra, ergo like Milar they get dubbed 'goons'. . .
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OK ... nice list. First off let me say I'd love to have a bunch of these guys - but really, when you get down to it there are only a few tough guys on here that bring more OVERALL to the plate than Carlson. Some might have .... years ago. Chara, Webber, Kronwall, and Bieksa. Others are pretty much the same or near the same guy as Carlson but you'll never get them away from their teams or get them for the same money AND no NMC. Sutter, Hedman, Burns, Dougherty, Keith. And for the second section of your list - well most of those guys don't even come close to being as good at being an all-around defender. Sure McQaid will drop the gloves but he won't have half as many points, a ton more penalty minutes (something a top-4 defender can't have) and isn't nearly as mobile - ie. can't even get around on the ice that well. But I said shut-down guy right? I know, I did ask for those names - but in this day and age that the current game is - every guy has to be well-rounded. Carlson isn't perfect, I'll be the first to admit to it. But the game you want to be played doesn't exist or did; decades ago. But that second list I put up: Sutter, Hedman, Burns, Dougherty, Keith - in the minds of fans other teams, ie that doesn't watch Carlson 3 times a week, Carlson is probably a member of that list as well ... esp. after this year. He's in his prime and getting better, little by little, every year. We got him for market value - and we have him until we get rid of him or he retires. So why, other than he isn't going to get into any fights, are you bitching?
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So why, other than he isn't going to get into any fights
We have a bingo!
DC seems to think the path to the cup is with 4 lines of Tony Twist and 3 D pairings of Marty Mcsorley.
Not that I have any issues with tough guys.....love em, but you can't win with nothing, but tough guys.
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I will say this though. The one guy that brings, at least, a similar level of offense and defensive play but also adds in a serious degree of nasty .... which means he's really about the one guy I would take above Carlson on sheer face-value, is THIS SEASON's Byfuglien (holy fuck, I hate spelling that guy's name). I don't want my boy DC think I'm just out to beat up on him ...
Note: He makes 400K less than Carlson but has a modified NTC.
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Holy cow, can Carlson give me a loan? :wackysmile: I was expecting the long term, but 8x8??? Yikees..
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Well, with out cap considerations, or lets just say players in the style of:
- Sutter
- Hedman
- Burns
- Chara
- Dougherty
- Webber
- D Buff (his last name is a bitch to spell)
- Phanuef
- Keith
- Kronwall
- Methot
- Olesniak
- Millar
- Bieksa
- McNabb
- McQuaid
- Stephen Johns
- Martinez
to name a but a few of the physical shutdown defenseman that according to some "canot play in this league anymore".
While they are smart enough to run a PP, or have a heavy enough shot in Burns case, to contribute offensively, it can safely be said that their primary assignments are defending against the top scorers of the other team, not trying to toe-drag and dangle behind the other teams net shortly followed by coasting watching the other teams odd-man rush and/or break away because no ones there to stop it.
Sure I listed some superstars that are some of the highest players in the league up there, but I also threw in a few little to unknown ones as well. If you go through the reports of of most NHL teams, you will see more shutdown/defensive defenseman on the current roster and in the systems than most would think or acknowledge existed. This type of player doesn't get numbers and doesn't get much attention/hype/promotion except when the ones they are playing against aren't scoring, or a hit/fight extra, ergo like Milar they get dubbed 'goons'. . .
[/quBuff,
Some good dmen in that list but some total pylons too. And get Burns off of that list. He isn't close to being a shutdow dman. He is pathetic defensively. Keith doesnt belong on that list either. Especially batter this season. He was bad. Real bad.
I really like some of those guys. Weber, Buff, Doughty and Hedman are all studs. You can put Pietrangelo in with those guys. I also love Kronwalls game. But his better days are behind him. Same with Chara.
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Is anyone concerned that Beagle may likely be a casualty this off season? I quickly read through comments and have not seen much chatter about him. I thought he was valuable (journeyman, grinder, great work/practice ethic)...but now I'm getting the sense that he's 'old' and there just isn't enough money to keep him plus the younger players who show potential. Sad about it...hate to see players I personally like leave (spoken like a fan, of course, and not a member of the front office).
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Is anyone concerned that Beagle may likely be a casualty this off season? I quickly read through comments and have not seen much chatter about him. I thought he was valuable (journeyman, grinder, great work/practice ethic)...but now I'm getting the sense that he's 'old' and there just isn't enough money to keep him plus the younger players who show potential. Sad about it...hate to see players I personally like leave (spoken like a fan, of course, and not a member of the front office).
We might still sign him. No chatter because he isnt a top tier player. I like the effort he puts into his game. But he is replaceable. Although we would miss him in the faceoff circle. I like him, just wish he had more skill. I'm not just talking offensively.
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Holy cow, can Carlson give me a loan? :wackysmile: I was expecting the long term, but 8x8??? Yikees..
Really? It was clear from the very beginning that this was the contract neighborhood in which he would be signed. It was an absolute guarantee that if Carlson didn't resign with the Caps, someone else would have given him at least $8 million AAV for 7 years.
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OK ... nice list. First off let me say I'd love to have a bunch of these guys - but really, when you get down to it there are only a few tough guys on here that bring more OVERALL to the plate than Carlson. Some might have .... years ago. Chara, Webber, Kronwall, and Bieksa. Others are pretty much the same or near the same guy as Carlson but you'll never get them away from their teams or get them for the same money AND no NMC. Sutter, Hedman, Burns, Dougherty, Keith. And for the second section of your list - well most of those guys don't even come close to being as good at being an all-around defender. Sure McQaid will drop the gloves but he won't have half as many points, a ton more penalty minutes (something a top-4 defender can't have) and isn't nearly as mobile - ie. can't even get around on the ice that well. But I said shut-down guy right? I know, I did ask for those names - but in this day and age that the current game is - every guy has to be well-rounded. Carlson isn't perfect, I'll be the first to admit to it. But the game you want to be played doesn't exist or did; decades ago. But that second list I put up: Sutter, Hedman, Burns, Dougherty, Keith - in the minds of fans other teams, ie that doesn't watch Carlson 3 times a week, Carlson is probably a member of that list as well ... esp. after this year. He's in his prime and getting better, little by little, every year. We got him for market value - and we have him until we get rid of him or he retires. So why, other than he isn't going to get into any fights, are you bitching?
Odd how you didnt bring up Olesniak, one of the top fighters in the league who "can skate, can't play, just fight" cracked the Hens starting line up and did a great job shutting us down. . .and for a 4th rounder too.
But back to Carlson, its because he is only a 4th forward. The simple fact the he finally played resoectable D in the last 7 games cannot logically Trump the last 7 months of the season or the whole of he is career.
This new Carlson ‘is one of if not the D best in league”, is the result of the Cup highd the off season hype, this soon to be gone trend of the offensive Dman/4th forward, and that people who watch this team 3 times a week don’t remember what a good Dman.
How people can forget the years, including this regular season of anti-Carlson statements here and even on broadcasts? Calling him out for loafing, bad passing, not blocking shots, letting the other team stand on Holtby because he won’t/can’t clear the crease? Hell Maaco was almost rum out of here just for saying he was the best D we had.
But a few games with minimal mistakes, a bunch of TV coverage about being a UFA and everyone hops on the "Carlson is one of the best bandwagon"? Like someone with all the faults above will play like he did in the last 7 games for 8 years? How does this make sense?
Come on you're comparing him with Sutter and Burns now. At the beginning of the playoffs you'd be laughing at anyone who said that. Hell he isnt even matched up against the other teams leading scorer half the time. The reason he has the points than them is that his primary role is offensive compensate for his mediocre defense, not because he is the best D man in the world.
People disagree with me now, but in 3-4yrs if not before people will hate this contract.
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Is anyone concerned that Beagle may likely be a casualty this off season? I quickly read through comments and have not seen much chatter about him. I thought he was valuable (journeyman, grinder, great work/practice ethic)...but now I'm getting the sense that he's 'old' and there just isn't enough money to keep him plus the younger players who show potential. Sad about it...hate to see players I personally like leave (spoken like a fan, of course, and not a member of the front office).
I am confident, unless Beags wants otherwise, that he will be back. Now we do have a serious list of UFA's and RFA's to look at but lets be honest, Beagle is damn near the top of the list. Important RFA's - Wilson (he's the obvious #1 guy to resign off of both lists), Bowey, DSP, and O'Brien (I'm still hoping he turns into our 4th line left wing). Important UFA's - Kempny, Jerabek, Chiasson, and I'd put Sill on there just depth and b/c he's a serious hard worker. But out of the UFA's, Kempny is probably the only one getting looked at more than Beags - and he made league minimum last year, so you won't see him getting anything huge. But the big thing to remember is this; we sold Orpik and Grubbie so that Carlson's resigning only really cost us $1 million against the Cap and of all of these guys listed, only Wilson made more than $2 million a year so you won't see Chiasson making $5 million or something else radically stupid. Lastly though, remember - there are a few good UFA's out there too. We have a decent chunk of money to sign what we need, we still might find a discount out there that wants to join the Cup Champs.
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We have a bingo!
DC seems to think the path to the cup is with 4 lines of Tony Twist and 3 D pairings of Marty Mcsorley.
Not that I have any issues with tough guys.....love em, but you can't win with nothing, but tough guys.
So are you really confusing defense and strategy to only fighting, or is this just a Mickey Mouse way to try to discredit me for not being on the bandwagon?
Anyway. just causre I enjoy sending sensitive people off to their safe spaces (Oh no! this goes against the trend! Mrt Bettmean doesn't want the game to be this mean! He wants all to be entertained and happy!)
https://youtu.be/MN63p4WqEjg (https://youtu.be/MN63p4WqEjg)
heh I just live how his teammate immediately calls for the trainer while Kyte just lays there holding his head. . .
Be sure to read your "Last Post" thread while your in your in trauma after this display of Toxic Masculinity. I made it easy to find for you.
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Because he is only a 4th forward. The simple fact finally played resoectable D in the last 7 games cannot logically Trump the last 7 months.
This new Carlson ‘is one of if not the D best in league”, is the result of the Cup high, this soon to be gone trend of the offensive Dman/4th forward, and that people who watch this team 3 times a week don’t remember what a good Dman.
How people can forget the years, including this regular season of anti-Carlson statements here and even on broadcasts? Calling him out for loafing, bad passing, not blocking shots, letting the other team stand on Holtby because he won’t/can’t clear the crease? Hell Maaco was almost rum out of here just for saying he was the best D we had.
But a few games with minimal mistakes, a bunch of TV coverage about being a UFA and everyone hops on the "Carlson is one of the best bandwagon"? Like someone with all the faults above will play like he did in the last 7 games for 8 years? How does this make sense?
Come on you're comparing him with Sutter and Burns now. At the beginning of the playoffs you'd be laughing at anyone who said that. Hell he isnt even matched up against the other teams leading scorer half the time.
People disagree with me now, but in 3-4yrs if not before people will hate this contract.
Sorry DC but I disagree with your assessment. Especially the 4th forward. Carlson is alot more than an offensive defenceman. Not sure why you have it engraved in your head that he is. I happen to like a lot of the guys on your list but not all if them are shutdown dmen. InfactmCarlson is better defensively than some of those players that you listed. Most of those guys play a more physical style but arent necessarily good defensively. Burns is far from a shutdown dman, so is Phanuef. I also found it odd that you have Keith on your list. He is more the type of dman that you dont like. Not a shutdown guy. He also isn't really a physical guy. He can be a bit dirty with his stick though. I figured you would like Seabrook more than Keith.
I love the physical dmen but they dont all have to play like that. For some reason you have it in your head that Carlson is nothing more than a 4th forward. Like I said, without vCarlson we dont win the cup.
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Sorry DC but I disagree with your assessment. Especially the 4th forward. Carlson is alot more than an offensive defenceman. Not sure why you have it engraved in your head that he is. I happen to like a lot of the guys on your list but not all if them are shutdown dmen. InfactmCarlson is better defensively than some of those players that you listed. Most of those guys play a more physical style but arent necessarily good defensively. Burns is far from a shutdown dman, so is Phanuef. I also found it odd that you have Keith on your list. He is more the type of dman that you dont like. Not a shutdown guy. He also isn't really a physical guy. He can be a bit dirty with his stick though. I figured you would like Seabrook more than Keith.
I love the physical dmen but they dont all have to play like that. For some reason you have it in your head that Carlson is nothing more than a 4th forward. Like I said, without vCarlson we dont win the cup.
I validated the majority of that list (that I came up with) with the only obectional public scouting report I
know of:
Keith Scouting Report (http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/2958)
Then here is Carlsons, (http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/6635) which supports much if what both of us say:
Exles at shutdown, vs efficient at shutdown
Who would you rather have against the other teams top scores, particularly in tie or with a lead?
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Some of the guys on your list take themselves out of position just to try to lay a big hit. Not many players are "perfect", but Carlson's defense has gotten better than you give him credit for. Or do only fights and big hits count as playing defense? Did you like Alzner? I don't remember how you felt about him. He was very sound defensively, but didn't lay big hits or fight. He'd lost a bit his last year here, but he was very sound most of his career.
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Some of the guys on your list take themselves out of position just to try to lay a big hit. Not many players are "perfect", but Carlson's defense has gotten better than you give him credit for. Or do only fights and big hits count as playing defense? Did you like Alzner? I don't remember how you felt about him. He was very sound defensively, but didn't lay big hits or fight. He'd lost a bit his last year here, but he was very sound most of his career.
I was an am a big Alzner fan. That injury last year took a toll on him, but before than he excellent against the other teams top scorers, blocks, not letting the goalie be screened, and not committing turnovers.
I will prefer quiet consistent play like that over the high risk high reward of having a Dman routinely pinching, getting caught to deep in the offensive zone, making risky passes, or the other liabilities that come with using a defenseman as a large part of your offense (patricualrly when the forwards covering for them are not great defensively
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Interesting ..... DSP did NOT get a qualifying letter. Wilson, Bowey, Boyd, Barber and O'Brien (hells yeah !!) did get them. Though they are supposedly still talking to the guy. Wonder what this means ... maybe a move to rap up Vrana, Burakovsky, Stephenson and Djoos a year early?? Who knows ....
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I was an am a big Alzner fan. That injury last year took a toll on him, but before than he excellent against the other teams top scorers, blocks, not letting the goalie be screened, and not committing turnovers.
I will prefer quiet consistent play like that over the high risk high reward of having a Dman routinely pinching, getting caught to deep in the offensive zone, making risky passes, or the other liabilities that come with using a defenseman as a large part of your offense (patricualrly when the forwards covering for them are not great defensively
To be fair though we haven't been lacking completely in that department. Niskanen has his off days, but when he's on he does all of those things well and pitches in offensively to boot. Granted he isn't nearly as physical, but he isn't lacking in the physical department and throws some big hits when needed. He's just got the IQ and is mean enough mentally to make up for it.
While we did lose him, Orpik as well has been good and steady for us. I know you were one of his biggest detractors (hooks and all) but I can't not see a world where players like him, Oshie and Eller who you criticize didn't earn some blood sweat and tear respect from you. They played their hearts out too much for that. Nisky too.
I mean more than the last 6-7 games too. I think those names I mentioned above were some of our most consistent players this year. I don't think it means everything, but the pecking order of who gets the Cup first second etc after a win is telling to leaders and workers in the LR. Those names I mentioned got it pretty early, and before a lot of the more skill guys in our line up, notably Kuzy. Despite Kuzy's great playoffs.
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Odd how you didnt bring up Olesniak, one of the top fighters in the league who "can skate, can't play, just fight" cracked the Hens starting line up and did a great job shutting us down. . .and for a 4th rounder too.
But back to Carlson, its because he is only a 4th forward. The simple fact the he finally played resoectable D in the last 7 games cannot logically Trump the last 7 months of the season or the whole of he is career.
This new Carlson ‘is one of if not the D best in league”, is the result of the Cup highd the off season hype, this soon to be gone trend of the offensive Dman/4th forward, and that people who watch this team 3 times a week don’t remember what a good Dman.
How people can forget the years, including this regular season of anti-Carlson statements here and even on broadcasts? Calling him out for loafing, bad passing, not blocking shots, letting the other team stand on Holtby because he won’t/can’t clear the crease? Hell Maaco was almost rum out of here just for saying he was the best D we had.
But a few games with minimal mistakes, a bunch of TV coverage about being a UFA and everyone hops on the "Carlson is one of the best bandwagon"? Like someone with all the faults above will play like he did in the last 7 games for 8 years? How does this make sense?
Come on you're comparing him with Sutter and Burns now. At the beginning of the playoffs you'd be laughing at anyone who said that. Hell he isnt even matched up against the other teams leading scorer half the time. The reason he has the points than them is that his primary role is offensive compensate for his mediocre defense, not because he is the best D man in the world.
People disagree with me now, but in 3-4yrs if not before people will hate this contract.
Personally I think the 8 for 8 contract has handcuffed this team. Again. I think his last three months are an anomaly. If the rest of his career was half as good/consistent as the past three months I might feel better about the contract, but I think it sucks.
Was it Stamkos that said long contracts make players lazy? I think that has been part of OVs problem for the past several seasons. He did step up this playoffs when it started to look like they might actually do something, but like I said before, this Cup didn't happen without the younger guys we had to bring in for 17-18. Not because they were great players, but because they didn't have that the hens are gonna beat us again mindset.
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I validated the majority of that list (that I came up with) with the only obectional public scouting report I
know of:
Keith Scouting Report (http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/2958)
Then here is Carlsons, (http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/6635) which supports much if what both of us say:
Exles at shutdown, vs efficient at shutdown
Who would you rather have against the other teams top scores, particularly in tie or with a lead?
I'll be honest. I don't like Keith. I dont like his game. And I think he is the most overrated dman in the league. I would never want Keith on my team.
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I was an am a big Alzner fan. That injury last year took a toll on him, but before than he excellent against the other teams top scorers, blocks, not letting the goalie be screened, and not committing turnovers.
I will prefer quiet consistent play like that over the high risk high reward of having a Dman routinely pinching, getting caught to deep in the offensive zone, making risky passes, or the other liabilities that come with using a defenseman as a large part of your offense (patricualrly when the forwards covering for them are not great defensively
I was a big Alzner fan myself. He was a very good shutdown dman, good shot blocker and excellent on the pk. His injury problems really hurt his game. To the point that he was becoming a liability.
You seem to have a big issue with creating offense from your back end. Pretty much every team has an offensive dman. Its been that way for a long time. At least our offensive dman can handle himself in the defensive zone. Remember guys like Leetch, Coffey and Housley? Those guys didnt play defense.
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And here’s a few glimpses of what a Dman, both shutdown & 200ft, not just a 4th forward, looks like in todays game. Granted the years are adding up for him, but he’s still quitely one of the best.
I’ll warn you this is pretty violent . . .
https://youtu.be/c1nm4L6QBvY (https://youtu.be/c1nm4L6QBvY)
That video is awesome. I almost forgot what hockey used to be like. A lot of those hits would be suspensions today. Can't say that I disagree with trying to remove hits to the head. I just wish they were consistent in their judgment. I think that video had more stars and birdies in it than any other I've seen.
:wackysmile:
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I was a big Alzner fan myself. He was a very good shutdown dman, good shot blocker and excellent on the pk. His injury problems really hurt his game. To the point that he was becoming a liability.
You seem to have a big issue with creating offense from your back end. Pretty much every team has an offensive dman. Its been that way for a long time. At least our offensive dman can handle himself in the defensive zone. Remember guys like Leetch, Coffey and Housley? Those guys didnt play defense.
The issue is with the high salary price and high risk that comes along with them, particularly when they get massive minutes and the system makes then a key part of 5 on 5 strategies.
While the current concept generally evolved in the 90s from Bobby Orr, I don’t recall those 3 that you mentioned routinely pinching or playing behind the net. Even then, Housley and Coffey (and pretty salute Leetch), could flat out FLY, and get back to the D-Zone ahead of most forwards in there time.
But as the risks and cap hits of offensive defenseman get higher and higher, more and more teams will move away from them and exploit the ones that insist on having one or more.
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That video is awesome. I almost forgot what hockey used to be like. A lot of those hits would be suspensions today. Can't say that I disagree with trying to remove hits to the head. I just wish they were consistent in their judgment. I think that video had more stars and birdies in it than any other I've seen.
:wackysmile:
Some of those where pretty recent, he even had a few this year. He seems to be able to walk the tightrope of the “wheel of justice” and avoid suspensions.
None the less, “as the video clearly shows”, causing forwards think twice/look twice before entering the offensive zone is a highly effective defense tactic with random costs of penalties or suspensions that are typically worth the outcome.
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Interesting ..... DSP did NOT get a qualifying letter. Wilson, Bowey, Boyd, Barber and O'Brien (hells yeah !!) did get them. Though they are supposedly still talking to the guy. Wonder what this means ... maybe a move to rap up Vrana, Burakovsky, Stephenson and Djoos a year early?? Who knows ....
Could possibly be that they wanted to avoid arbitration with DSP. I'd like to see him back for his toughness. If not they need to give O'Brien another shot at it on the wing. If he's gone, and with Orpik gone we got a lot softer.
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Interesting ..... DSP did NOT get a qualifying letter. Wilson, Bowey, Boyd, Barber and O'Brien (hells yeah !!) did get them.
Aren't qualifying offers just for 1 year? Seems they'd want to sign Wilson for at least 3? Or is this just a starting point? Hope they can get DSP back as well.. He may turn out to be the Joel Ward type who actually has that playoff gear to find consistently..
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If the Caps want to sign Wilson longer-term at this point, they would want to sign him for 5 years at least, to tie up the first couple of his UFA years. More and more, teams want to avoid contracts that end in a player's age 27 year, at least for players that the team feels are its most valuable -- and the Caps see Wilson as a very valuable asset. If he doesn't sign a long-term contract, he'll probably just sign a contract for a year or two, so that he is still in RFA status when it ends.
The players that a team feels less attached to are the ones that they will go year to year on until age 27 (and beyond.)
DSP's situation is totally money -- more specifically, totally arbitration. The rest got a qualifying letter because the players either don't have the threat of arbitration to create a BINDING high salary, the player's contributions to date aren't enough to create a situation where an arbiter would give a problematically high award, or in Wilson's case, the team is already willing to commit to the higher compensation that is coming. But DSP might get a high award that the team couldn't handle within its cap limits without jettisoning someone else they want, and once an arbitration award is set the team CAN'T back away from it. It becomes part of the salary cap computations, period.
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DSP just signed a 1 for 1. I think he deserves more than that.
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Not sure why DSP only got that? If he did not sign, was he going to arbitration? Surely he would have gotten more than that in arbitration.
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Could possibly be that they wanted to avoid arbitration with DSP. I'd like to see him back for his toughness. If not they need to give O'Brien another shot at it on the wing. If he's gone, and with Orpik gone we got a lot softer.
Totally agree. Orpik was our last guy that was feared by the other team. At least DSP will give it a go every now and then. Looks like we have him for next year and maybe they will resign Orpik as well.
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Totally agree. Orpik was our last guy that was feared by the other team. At least DSP will give it a go every now and then. Looks like we have him for next year and maybe they will resign Orpik as well.
Tom Wilson might want to take issue with that statement.
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1x1 is a good price for DSP from our point of view. He could get more but this is a cap friendly move I think. He's not the best player, and I wouldn't want to hype him up just on his playoff performance, and I definitely don't want him in the top 6, but he's a serviceable bottom 6 player with some experience. Considering entry level contracts are only a few hundred grand less, I'd say this is a good prce
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DSPs 1 for 1 is an awsome contract for the Caps. But they should've done better. Losing the energy DSP brings will be just like losing Chimmer. Carlsons contract should've been 5 years at best, because of the cap hit
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DSPs 1 for 1 is an awsome contract for the Caps. But they should've done better. Losing the energy DSP brings will be just like losing Chimmer. Carlsons contract should've been 5 years at best, because of the cap hit
In what world other than a fantasy world SHOULD Carlson's contract have been for 5 years or fewer? The Caps had to pay what they did to keep him because it was a lead-pipe cinch that some other team would have paid him at least 8 million dollars a year for the maximum term that an outside team could have signed him for, 7 years, and it would have happened on July 1.
Just like losing Chimmer? So the Caps lost Chimmer, and DSP was signed and now the Caps have a cup. How was losing Chimera such a gut-wrenching experience?
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Tom Wilson might want to take issue with that statement.
Yes - I meant for our defensemen as guys come across the middle. Thankfully, we still have Willy and hopefully can get him locked up.
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The issue is with the high salary price and high risk that comes along with them, particularly when they get massive minutes and the system makes then a key part of 5 on 5 strategies.
While the current concept generally evolved in the 90s from Bobby Orr, I don’t recall those 3 that you mentioned routinely pinching or playing behind the net. Even then, Housley and Coffey (and pretty salute Leetch), could flat out FLY, and get back to the D-Zone ahead of most forwards in there time.
But as the risks and cap hits of offensive defenseman get higher and higher, more and more teams will move away from them and exploit the ones that insist on having one or more.
Those guys got caught pinching alot and when they were playing in their own end they were totally clueless back there. Now those guys were literally one dimensional Hously is the worst defender I have EVER seen. You guys really shouldn't be ripping Carlson for his game. He is a 2way defenceman. He is better defensively than most offensive defenceman in the league.
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DSP just signed a 1 for 1. I think he deserves more than that.
His numbers don't warrant it. Really. Yes, he is clutch but it's hard to translate that into a contract. Without the post season people would ask why are making him can offer? Another good season from him and I can see him getting $3m.
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His numbers don't warrant it. Really. Yes, he is clutch but it's hard to translate that into a contract. Without the post season people would ask why are making him can offer? Another good season from him and I can see him getting $3m.
Chas, this is a very astute observation. Yes, maybe someone else would have signed him for a year or two, say for $1.3 million to $1.5 million AAV. Maybe it would have worked out with his new team, maybe not, and if not, he fades back into oblivion. But if he stays with the Caps, a team he is grateful to belong to, a team he feels very comfortable with, and has another good year, maybe he can get a longer contract next year, with more security. Yes, I think his move is the move of an honorable man. But it could also be his best chance for a steppingstone that would lead to a reasonably significant contract. I don't know if he could get $3 million. But if he could get someone to offer him, say, $2.5 million AAV for 4 years (his years 28-31 seasons, so it wouldn't be much of a gamble), he could be set for life if he uses his head about how he deals with the money.
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Those guys got caught pinching alot and when they were playing in their own end they were totally clueless back there. Now those guys were literally one dimensional Housley is the worst defender I have EVER seen. You guys really shouldn't be ripping Carlson for his game. He is a 2way defenceman. He is better defensively than most offensive defenceman in the league.
While that certainly happened on occasion, and Housley was certainly never known for his D, and I don’t call many instances with Coffey. . .But I do recall The Wings seeing they needed to get tougher and smarter and trading their popular offensive Dman for a better player (Shannahan).
But either way, is “better” good enough? If Carlson’s points where 3/4, even half of his total, would his D be worth 8mil or what Sutter is paid? Is he good enough on D, to shutdown the top scoring forward every shift every night? Or does he just not suck at D AS BAD as the likes of Kleinberg, and how is that good enough?
The offensiveDman/4th forward is popular with fans. The more teams use them, over pay them, and become dependent on them, the more other teams will take advantage of it and exploit its risks. We’ve seen it happen to us for years, until we went to trap and everyone player played the games of their life, but that’s to much to bet 8mill on that happening for 8 years.
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Tom Wilson might want to take issue with that statement.
What? I think you misread. Losing tougher guys makes the team softer. Wilson can't be the only guy.
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Not sure why DSP only got that? If he did not sign, was he going to arbitration? Surely he would have gotten more than that in arbitration.
They did not give him a qualifying offer so no, he was not eligible for arbitration. They did this on purpose because he would have likely gotten more in arb. And reports are he had more lucrative offers but chose to take less to stay with the Caps.
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While that certainly happened on occasion, and Housley was certainly never known for his D, and I don’t call many instances with Coffey. . .But I do recall The Wings seaming they needed to get tougher and smarter and trading their popular offensive Dman for a better player (Shannahan).
But either way, is “better” good enough? If Carlson’s points where 3/4, even half of his total, would his D be worth 8mil or what Sutter is paid? Is he good enough on D, to shutdown the top scoring forward every shift every night? Or does he just not suck at D AS BAD as the likes of Kleinberg, and how is that good enough?
The offensiveDman/4th forward is popular with fans. The more teams use them, over pay them, and become dependent on them, the more other teams will take advantage of it and exploit its risks. We’ve seen it happen to us for years, until we went to trap and everyone player played the games of their life, but that’s to much to bet 8mill on that happening for 8 years.
I'm not sure how popular offensive defencemen are. Me personally, I dont like offense only defence men. I like good 2way defencemen and I also like the physical guys. Even better if it is a combination of everything. Like A guy like Shea Weber. I do consider Carlson a good 2way defenceman.
One thing I have noticed about you DC is that you prefer physical guys. But that doesnt necessarily mean they are good defensively. Infact sometimes it is quite the opposite. Some guys are so intent on getting the big hit that they get caught out of position.
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I don't have many issues with Carlson's actual "defense".. It's his decision making, usually below the goal line, that gets him in trouble, imo.. Or getting caught on a pinch every now a then.. Obviously his draw is the points, minutes and PP QB skills he has.. But Im just still not sure why they gave him 8x8.. Even 8x7 (years) would be much better for the Caps.. We get home town deals for guys like DSP.. Anyone with any clout or bargaining power at all rapes GMBM for the absolute MAX.. (Except for the coach of course.)
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I'm not sure how popular offensive defencemen are. Me personally, I dont like offense only defence men. I like good 2way defencemen and I also like the physical guys. Even better if it is a combination of everything. Like A guy like Shea Weber. I do consider Carlson a good 2way defenceman.
One thing I have noticed about you DC is that you prefer physical guys. But that doesnt necessarily mean they are good defensively. Infact sometimes it is quite the opposite. Some guys are so intent on getting the big hit that they get caught out of position.
The old saying “Defense Wins Games, Offense Sells Tickets”, has proven prodomintly accurate throughout any sport.
In this case, if you take the most popular defenseman, the all-star vote getters, jersey sellers, highest salaries, and now a days e en Norris vote getters are offensive, if not offensive that play at least average D, with the minority being primary D, or shutdown Dmen. . . So yeah, I would say they’re the most popular.
I’m general I prefer smart defense-first defenseman. With that considered I prefer physical Dmen over offensive. They are harder to play against (particularly in the long term), give the goalie better protection, generally less risk, and generally more cap friendly allowing for a more for a deeper defense and deeper team.
Yes this appears to be contrary to “the way it is now”, but many teams are moving away from or not going with a “marque offensive Dman”, or lkeeoing on and just using him situational or on the PP, Vegas being the first that comes to mind.
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I don't have many issues with Carlson's actual "defense".. It's his decision making, usually below the goal line, that gets him in trouble, imo.. Or getting caught on a pinch every now a then.. Obviously his draw is the points, minutes and PP QB skills he has.. But Im just still not sure why they gave him 8x8.. Even 8x7 (years) would be much better for the Caps.. We get home town deals for guys like DSP.. Anyone with any clout or bargaining power at all rapes GMBM for the absolute MAX.. (Except for the coach of course.)
Dead on regarding his defensive problems. I don't think those defending him realize it isn't his ability to play defense, it's just his mental game. When John Carlson is on he is a game changer. But he can sometimes get caught up in plays, overwhelmed, and mentally his hockey IQ just isn't as good, especially defensively.
But even then I've seen him make offensive reads, pinch when he shouldn't of or even just holding the blue sometimes. We give up tons of shorthanded changes gambling with him and Ovie on the back end, and while they both race back work harder now etc, let's not pretend it still doesn't happen where we have shorthanded breaks against because Carlson assumes he's got the puck on the blue line.
It's almost as if he gets a little too much swagger? He presumes it's his confident play as the only factor for it going well, and that leads to forgetting to constantly read the play, and one mis-read for a D with his kind of minutes sticks out like a sore thumb.
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In what world other than a fantasy world SHOULD Carlson's contract have been for 5 years or fewer? The Caps had to pay what they did to keep him because it was a lead-pipe cinch that some other team would have paid him at least 8 million dollars a year for the maximum term that an outside team could have signed him for, 7 years, and it would have happened on July 1.
Just like losing Chimmer? So the Caps lost Chimmer, and DSP was signed and now the Caps have a cup. How was losing Chimera such a gut-wrenching experience?
Where did I even imply it should've been less than 5? Ima say it slower this time.
H i s c o n t r a c t s h o u l d v e b e e n 5 y e a r s
j u s t b e c a u s e o f t h e c a p h i t .
Losing Chimmer was gut wrenching?? Must've been for you because I didn't say that either. But it was plainly obvious the energy he brought was missing after the trade.
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What? I think you misread. Losing tougher guys makes the team softer. Wilson can't be the only guy.
I don't think I misread. The original post said Orpik was essentially the last tough guy. That isn't true. Now as for how many "tough guys" you need on the team, I'll leave that to others to discuss. But the statement as made wasn't true.
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His numbers don't warrant it. Really. Yes, he is clutch but it's hard to translate that into a contract. Without the post season people would ask why are making him can offer? Another good season from him and I can see him getting $3m.
I would've offered 1.25, maybe 1.5. He is definitely worth that, and I'm not counting just the post season in that observation.
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Dead on regarding his defensive problems. I don't think those defending him realize it isn't his ability to play defense, it's just his mental game. When John Carlson is on he is a game changer. But he can sometimes get caught up in plays, overwhelmed, and mentally his hockey IQ just isn't as good, especially defensively.
But even then I've seen him make offensive reads, pinch when he shouldn't of or even just holding the blue sometimes. We give up tons of shorthanded changes gambling with him and Ovie on the back end, and while they both race back work harder now etc, let's not pretend it still doesn't happen where we have shorthanded breaks against because Carlson assumes he's got the puck on the blue line.
It's almost as if he gets a little too much swagger? He presumes it's his confident play as the only factor for it going well, and that leads to forgetting to constantly read the play, and one mis-read for a D with his kind of minutes sticks out like a sore thumb.
All of this talk about pinching defensemen is missing the point. Carlson [and other defensemen] on the Caps aren't pinching and pushing the play because there is some lack of understanding on their part about the proper mix of their offensive and defensive roles. They are playing this way precisely because THE ORGANIZATION WANTS THEM TO PLAY THIS WAY! And as the role of defensemen in the offense continues to evolve, the Caps' organizational philosophy has tilted more and more in this direction. I could even notice a significant change this past season. A few years ago, you would NEVER have seen Brooks Orpik handling the puck below the offensive goal line. I was amazed this past season how many times I saw Orpik pinch and then follow the puck below the goal line. There is no way that this could be in his DNA -- the team/coaches must have been pushing him on this. And whenever a defenseman pinches, it is up to other players to rotate and a forward take up a defensive position. If you watch the play away from the puck you can see the rotation. It doesn't necessarily come naturally for many forwards, but this year, by the time the playoffs rolled around you could see that the Caps forwards had finally picked it up and the coverage was generally very good.
This concept isn't easy to master, and teams can and do screw it up. The first Caps goal, by Vrana, in Game 5 of the finals was precisely this kind of play; a Knights defenseman (Engelland??) pinched and got caught and no one covered for him, leaving Vrana all alone coming down the left wing side.
You can bet that, because of his offensive capabilities, Carlson is encouraged to pinch whenever he feels he has a reasonable chance to drive play in the offensive zone, probably more than any of the other defensemen. It is up to someone else to cover when he does that.
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Where did I even imply it should've been less than 5? Ima say it slower this time.
H i s c o n t r a c t s h o u l d v e b e e n 5 y e a r s
j u s t b e c a u s e o f t h e c a p h i t .
Losing Chimmer was gut wrenching?? Must've been for you because I didn't say that either. But it was plainly obvious the energy he brought was missing after the trade.
That isn't what you said originally. You said his contract should have been 5 years AT BEST. You conveniently dropped your qualifier this time, which suggests that less than 5 years should have been a consideration, or you would have been happy with less than 5, or something. Or are you suggesting "at best" was just a phantom, throwaway comment?
I don't think Chimera brought all that much energy to Caps games. He brought a hell of a lot of open-ice SPEED to Caps games, but when I think of "bringing energy" I think of guys who work the wall, who fight hard and consistently for the puck along the boards, who dog the puck trying to knock it loose from the opponents, who are generally a nuisance to play against. Jay Beagle has made a career doing that. T.J. brings energy. DSP brought energy pretty consistently during the playoffs; during the regular season it was a little more sporadic. Stephenson seemed to bring energy pretty consistently as he established himself. When he was with the Caps, Ward did a good job of handling the puck when he had it or was cycling with his teammates. He did not as good a job trying to get it away when we didn't have it. When I think of "energy" guys, the ones I mentioned are the Caps I think of first and foremost.
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That isn't what you said originally. You said his contract should have been 5 years AT BEST. You conveniently dropped your qualifier this time, which suggests that less than 5 years should have been a consideration, or you would have been happy with less than 5, or something. Or are you suggesting "at best" was just a phantom, throwaway comment?
I don't think Chimera brought all that much energy to Caps games. He brought a hell of a lot of open-ice SPEED to Caps games, but when I think of "bringing energy" I think of guys who work the wall, who fight hard and consistently for the puck along the boards, who dog the puck trying to knock it loose from the opponents, who are generally a nuisance to play against. Jay Beagle has made a career doing that. T.J. brings energy. DSP brought energy pretty consistently during the playoffs; during the regular season it was a little more sporadic. Stephenson seemed to bring energy pretty consistently as he established himself. Wilson obviously brings energy. When he was with the Caps, Ward did a good job of handling the puck when he had it or was cycling with his teammates. He did not as good a job trying to get it away when we didn't have it. When I think of "energy" guys, the ones I mentioned are the Caps I think of first and foremost.
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That isn't what you said originally. You said his contract should have been 5 years AT BEST. You conveniently dropped your qualifier this time, which suggests that less than 5 years should have been a consideration, or you would have been happy with less than 5, or something. Or are you suggesting "at best" was just a phantom, throwaway comment?
I don't think Chimera brought all that much energy to Caps games. He brought a hell of a lot of open-ice SPEED to Caps games, but when I think of "bringing energy" I think of guys who work the wall, who fight hard and consistently for the puck along the boards, who dog the puck trying to knock it loose from the opponents, who are generally a nuisance to play against. Jay Beagle has made a career doing that. T.J. brings energy. DSP brought energy pretty consistently during the playoffs; during the regular season it was a little more sporadic. Stephenson seemed to bring energy pretty consistently as he established himself. When he was with the Caps, Ward did a good job of handling the puck when he had it or was cycling with his teammates. He did not as good a job trying to get it away when we didn't have it. When I think of "energy" guys, the ones I mentioned are the Caps I think of first and foremost.
Please quote me
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DSPs 1 for 1 is an awsome contract for the Caps. But they should've done better. Losing the energy DSP brings will be just like losing Chimmer. Carlsons contract should've been 5 years at best, because of the cap hit
There you go. Yep, there's the qualifier.."because of the cap hit"
I'm still trying to find the gut wrenching part
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Staying out of the "you wrote this ... kind of ... but I know you meant that" conversations .... I think the DSP deal is great. First off, if you are wondering why he took the deal, read the article about it on nhl.com. And it being only a year means that if his playoff/cup play doesn't translate into better regular season play we can easily walk away from him. Another good deal in my opinion.
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All of this talk about pinching defensemen is missing the point. Carlson [and other defensemen] on the Caps aren't pinching and pushing the play because there is some lack of understanding on their part about the proper mix of their offensive and defensive roles. They are playing this way precisely because THE ORGANIZATION WANTS THEM TO PLAY THIS WAY! And as the role of defensemen in the offense continues to evolve, the Caps' organizational philosophy has tilted more and more in this direction. I could even notice a significant change this past season. A few years ago, you would NEVER have seen Brooks Orpik handling the puck below the offensive goal line. I was amazed this past season how many times I saw Orpik pinch and then follow the puck below the goal line. There is no way that this could be in his DNA -- the team/coaches must have been pushing him on this. And whenever a defenseman pinches, it is up to other players to rotate and a forward take up a defensive position. If you watch the play away from the puck you can see the rotation. It doesn't necessarily come naturally for many forwards, but this year, by the time the playoffs rolled around you could see that the Caps forwards had finally picked it up and the coverage was generally very good.
This concept isn't easy to master, and teams can and do screw it up. The first Caps goal, by Vrana, in Game 5 of the finals was precisely this kind of play; a Knights defenseman (Engelland??) pinched and got caught and no one covered for him, leaving Vrana all alone coming down the left wing side.
You can bet that, because of his offensive capabilities, Carlson is encouraged to pinch whenever he feels he has a reasonable chance to drive play in the offensive zone, probably more than any of the other defensemen. It is up to someone else to cover when he does that.
“THE ORGANIZATION WANTS THEM TO PLAY THIS WAY!”
Yes, because playin that way sells tickets, videogames, hope, and entertainment, which is why you’re lovin this: entertainment.
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Dead on regarding his defensive problems. I don't think those defending him realize it isn't his ability to play defense, it's just his mental game. When John Carlson is on he is a game changer. But he can sometimes get caught up in plays, overwhelmed, and mentally his hockey IQ just isn't as good, especially defensively.
But even then I've seen him make offensive reads, pinch when he shouldn't of or even just holding the blue sometimes. We give up tons of shorthanded changes gambling with him and Ovie on the back end, and while they both race back work harder now etc, let's not pretend it still doesn't happen where we have shorthanded breaks against because Carlson assumes he's got the puck on the blue line.
It's almost as if he gets a little too much swagger? He presumes it's his confident play as the only factor for it going well, and that leads to forgetting to constantly read the play, and one mis-read for a D with his kind of minutes sticks out like a sore thumb.
I think defensively Carlson is fine. He plays good man to man coverage in the defensive zone. I have found his problem hasn't been his play defensively. He has some brain farts when trying to get out if the zone. He turns the puck over quite a bit exiting the zone.
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“THE ORGANIZATION WANTS THEM TO PLAY THIS WAY!”
Yes, because playin that way sells tickets, videogames, hope, and entertainment, which is why you’re lovin this: entertainment.
I have no problem at all with a dman pinching if a forward is back covering the vacated spot. Nothing wrong with keeping the puck in the offensive zone. Any defensive system should involve all 5 players. I know it wasnt like that in the 80s and early 90s. I remember the Pens when they went on their 2 cup runs in the early 90s. Ron Francis had to do all the back checking while Lemieux and Jagr floated around. Man I really disliked that style if hockey.
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I don't think I misread. The original post said Orpik was essentially the last tough guy. That isn't true. Now as for how many "tough guys" you need on the team, I'll leave that to others to discuss. But the statement as made wasn't true.
I said exactly this "Could possibly be that they wanted to avoid arbitration with DSP. I'd like to see him back for his toughness. If not they need to give O'Brien another shot at it on the wing. If he's gone, and with Orpik gone we got a lot softer."
Never remotely said that Orpik was the last tough guy. I said that if we lose both DSP and Orpik then this team becomes a lot softer... Which is true... Jeez.
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Reports are that Reirden is close to being named coach. Not that it's a shocker or anything.
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Reports are that Reirden is close to being named coach. Not that it's a shocker or anything.
thankfully, it won't turn into a cap hit discussion ;D
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thankfully, it won't turn into a cap hit discussion ;D
I bet he gets 5 mil for 5 yrs :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I said exactly this "Could possibly be that they wanted to avoid arbitration with DSP. I'd like to see him back for his toughness. If not they need to give O'Brien another shot at it on the wing. If he's gone, and with Orpik gone we got a lot softer."
Never remotely said that Orpik was the last tough guy. I said that if we lose both DSP and Orpik then this team becomes a lot softer... Which is true... Jeez.
But it wasn't your post I was referring to -- it was Beagle's comment on your post.
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“THE ORGANIZATION WANTS THEM TO PLAY THIS WAY!”
Yes, because playin that way sells tickets, videogames, hope, and entertainment, which is why you’re lovin this: entertainment.
I don't think so. I think that the organization's philosophy about defensemen pinching is because they think it is the most effective way to play and succeed in today's NHL. I think the answer to swarming 5-man defense in today's NHL is having 5 guys that potentially join the attack. Do you really think that the organization told Orpik to start forcing the play below the offensive goal line (which I saw a couple of times a game in many of the Caps games) because they thought it would entertain the fans?
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I don't mind if he pinches "when he's supposed to".. It's when we get a lead and he's still in "lets go pinch" mode, that worries me.. Not just him obviously but since he'll be the only one making 8 mil per, he'll get most of my attention..
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I don't think so. I think that the organization's philosophy about defensemen pinching is because they think it is the most effective way to play and succeed in today's NHL. I think the answer to swarming 5-man defense in today's NHL is having 5 guys that potentially join the attack. Do you really think that the organization told Orpik to start forcing the play below the offensive goal line (which I saw a couple of times a game in many of the Caps games) because they thought it would entertain the fans?
Funny how when we meet moved away from that Mickey Mouse videogame horseshit we actually won in the playoffs isn’t it?
It’s pretty simple: offense entertains-entertainment sells tickets, wrap that with “have a chance” and “today’s NHL” marketing and you have a revenue stream so you don’t need to win.
Maybe Trotz knew he was done so he went ahead and changed the bullshit system in the playoffs? Or maybe Monumental saw a trap all game and that’s when they decided he was gone? Extreme yes , but also feasible and wouldn’t be that surprising
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Kempney is back. 4 years at 2.5 per.
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Kempney is back. 4 years at 2.5 per.
Not, bad, not great either, but not bad. . .
2022 is gonna be interesting unless the cap practicly doubles [size=78%] [/size]
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But it wasn't your post I was referring to -- it was Beagle's comment on your post.
Lol, I see that now... :smirk:
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I bet he gets 5 mil for 5 yrs :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:poop:
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Kempney is back. 4 yea[size=78%]rs at 2.5 per.[/size]
Another good signing. I'm starting to like this off-season (well, other than it being too long as always). I would have liked to have seen $2 million instead of 2.5 but I think he's worth it with how good he and John worked together. Now they just have to get Beagle and the RFA's.
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It’s official. It’s now coach Reirdon
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It’s official. It’s now coach Rierdon
As expected. No complaints for now. Especially if the rumours about it being his system in the playoffs are true.
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Don't mind Kempney. Hope he turns out to be as good as he was in the playoffs and agree he was good with Carlson. I also hope they are saving up some money for Wilson.
I fear Beagle will leave. IMO he has always been a good bargain for the Caps and I think his agent has done a lousy job for him. He now is recognized around the league, and appreciated more. Maybe his age will keep things reasonable, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him get a 3 - 4 year deal at pretty decent money.
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According to Bob McKenzie with TSN, Beags is positioned to leave the Caps and is poised to sign a multi-year deal elsewhere that will pay him handsomely. We shall miss Beags - no one worked harder, had less 'cheat' in his game, and dominated at the Dot and on the PK like Beags. What a fine player he was for Washington. Chandler Stephenson has big skates to fill, but I love that kid as well.
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Don't mind Kempney. Hope he turns out to be as good as he was in the playoffs and agree he was good with Carlson. I also hope they are saving up some money for Wilson.
I fear Beagle will leave. IMO he has always been a good bargain for the Caps and I think his agent has done a lousy job for him. He now is recognized around the league, and appreciated more. Maybe his age will keep things reasonable, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him get a 3 - 4 year deal at pretty decent money.
If he did I wouldn’t blame him, this orginization and fan base have all but hated him and treated him like trash because they thought he should be playing in Reston while worshiping hacks like Bura and Connelly
Here’s to a crap defensive team with 4 centers at under 50% faceoffes.
Hey, why don’t we just have Carslon take faceoffs! He scores points so he can do that too right?
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If he did I wouldn’t blame him, this orginization and fan base have all but hated him and treated him like trash because they thought he should be playing in Reston while worshiping hacks like Bura and Connelly
Here’s to a crap defensive team with 4 centers at under 50% faceoffes.
Hey, why don’t we just have Carslon take faceoffs! He scores points so he can do that too right?
DC that is plain BS that the organization and fan base have hated Beagle and treated him like trash. Beagle is one of the most loved players in the organization. The fans love him.
Also you keep saying entertainment equals revenue and the Caps onlycare about entertaining. I will tell you what brings in revenue and that is winning. If the Caps keep winning they will make mucho money. The key to winning in today’s game is pressure, pressure, pressure. Force the other team to make mistakes and capitalze on those mistakes.
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Thank goodness that Carlson signed his extension a few days ago. Now that Doughty has signed for $11 million AAV, the salary bar for defensemen is being raised again.
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If he did I wouldn’t blame him, this orginization and fan base have all but hated him and treated him like trash because they thought he should be playing in Reston while worshiping hacks like Bura and Connelly
Here’s to a crap defensive team with 4 centers at under 50% faceoffes.
Hey, why don’t we just have Carslon take faceoffs! He scores points so he can do that too right?
I think you are getting carried away. Yes Beagle is a great faceoff man but we have other guys than can take faceoffs. Backstrom is decent on faceoffs and I'm sure if Beagle was gone Stephenson would be the 4th line center and he is a good faceoff man. Beagle defense is replaceable. Yes he is good defensively. Oh make it sound as if he us the best defensive forward in the league. He isn't. There are 2 or 3 guys on the team as good as him defensively.
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If he did I wouldn’t blame him, this orginization and fan base have all but hated him and treated him like trash because they thought he should be playing in Reston while worshiping hacks like Bura and Connelly
Here’s to a crap defensive team with 4 centers at under 50% faceoffes.
Hey, why don’t we just have Carslon take faceoffs! He scores points so he can do that too right?
I can't argue with you about Bura and Connolly. I'd much rather have a player like Beagle. If we lose Beagle the biggest loss will be on faceoffs. He is excellent on faceoffs but one thing that no one here ever mentions is how often he gets tossed from the circle.
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Thank goodness that Carlson signed his extension a few days ago. Now that Doughty has signed for $11 million AAV, the salary bar for defensemen is being raised again.
I dont think that would have changed Carlson's contract. Doughty might be the best dman in the league. Top 2 for sure.
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True, he is better overall ... but $3 million a year better? That's what you pay a solid 4-6 defender. I think, after listening to his post contract-signing interview, we also got a little hometown discount and when coupled with the Doughty signing - I would think, we got a little lucky there.
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I think you are getting carried away. Yes Beagle is a great faceoff man but we have other guys than can take faceoffs. Backstrom is decent on faceoffs and I'm sure if Beagle was gone Stephenson would be the 4th line center and he is a good faceoff man. Beagle defense is replaceable. Yes he is good defensively. Oh make it sound as if he us the best defensive forward in the league. He isn't. There are 2 or 3 guys on the team as good as him defensively.
Please spare me the argument on Beagle. He has been a selfless, hardworking player that gets 110% out of his abilities. He is the role model that every coach points to and wants in the lockeroom. If anyone wants to say there are other guys that are better at this or that, just shut the hell up!
Let’s all agree that we would love to have him back and if not, that we appreciate what he did for us and wish him well.
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Please spare me the argument on Beagle. He has been a selfless, hardworking player that gets 110% out of his abilities. He is the role model that every coach points to and wants in the lockeroom. If anyone wants to say there are other guys that are better at this or that, just shut the hell up!
Let’s all agree that we would love to have him back and if not, that we appreciate what he did for us and wish him well.
And recognize what we’ve lost, not only faceoffs, but PK, multipostional, and an elite defensive specialist.
Boyd, Greish, etc are good and all but they ain’t gonna be that level for a looong time if at all
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And recognize what we’ve lost, not only faceoffs, but PK, multipostional, and an elite defensive specialist.
Boyd, Greish, etc are good and all but they ain’t gonna be that level for a looong time if at all
Our best hope is Stephenson, who showed flashes of defensive acumen during the playoffs combined with speed. But personally I'd be much more comfortable with our bottom six with BOTH Beagle and Stephenson. Considering we have kept DSP as well, throw Eller into that mix? Management shouldn't let the Cup star gaze them, our bottom six were HUGE for the Cup win this past season. Ovie came alive again following the 2nd round, but there several tight games against Tampa elimination games, and even in the 2nd round where it was our role players + TJ Oshie carrying us to wins.
Jay Beagle is huge in all of that, so I hope we can keep him. His faceoff and penalty killing alone, but he also makes some of our other role players better.
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I'm not happy about losing Beagle (is he officially "gone"?). As others have said, hard working, defensive skill, PK ability, faceoff ability, locker room presence, etc.
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Tomorrow is the start of the UFA period. No one is "gone" until then, and a guy like Beagle may not be one of the first signees, because they tend to be the biggest stars and Beagle is more of a complementary piece.
I suspect I know what the organization's thinking may be here. A guy like Beagle makes a career for himself by extracting every ounce of capability he has from himself. We all know that Beagle is one of the very few who has consistently set the standard for consistent effort in this organization over the past several years. That's fine, but when a player is "maxing himself out" to compete in a league, then the first little bit of capability he loses as Father Time takes its toll can make the difference between being able to compete effectively, and not being able. The Caps may be concerned that Beagle is reaching that tipping point, or at least, he's reaching a point where they have younger players who can compete more effectively than he can overall simply because they have a comparably useful set of skills (I didn't say the same skills) and ARE several years younger.
Count me among those who love what Beagle has brought to this organization. But nothing lasts forever, and it is the organization's difficult call to decide when, short of forever, the end of the relationship shall be.
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Nobody's really mentioned Beagle as being "glue".. Loosing guys like him can take a toll in other ways, besides taking faceoffs and killing penalties, etc.. We've lost Orpik, probably Beagle.. Who's the other "hard working" veterans that set an example for the locker room? Oshie? That's about it and he's only been here a few years.. Im sure Nicky, Ovie, Carlson, etc. work hard, but I've never heard mention of their "work ethic" or anything..
Just something else to think on, when we say our apparent goodbye's to another excellent heart/motor man.. :-(
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OK, here's my latest update of the salary cap situation:
We now have 17 players signed and committed, or tentatively committed, to the roster to start next season.
They are:
10 forwards -- Ovie/Kuzy/Backstrom/Oshie/Eller/Bura/Connolly/Vrana/Smith-Pelly/Stephenson
5 defensemen -- Carlson/Kempney/Niskanen/Orlov/Djoos
2 goalies -- Holtby/Copley
The total salary cap hit for those 17 players is, to the nearest thousand dollars, $69,552, 000. The salary cap for the coming season has been set at $79.5 million, leaving the Caps $9,948,000 to work with. The team will need to place at least 5 more players on the roster to start the season, maybe 6. I say 5 because Trotz was satisfied with 22; one extra d-man and one extra forward. Whether Reirden feels the same way I do not know.
Two RFA players that are as yet unsigned but are a virtual certainty to be on the roster this coming season are Wilson and Bowey. My thinking is that it is going to take upwards of a $5 million cap hit to sign both of them: say $3.7 million for Wilson and $1.3 million for Bowey. IF my thinking is reasonably accurate, that would leave 3 more players to be added to the roster (2 forwards and a defenseman) and $4,948,000 available (sorry for unaccountable font change.) If Beagle were resigned for a cap hit of, say, $2,000,000 (a small raise), the other two spots could be filled by Hershey call-ups for less than $2,000,000, leaving a little in excess of $1,000,00 of cap room available for injury call-ups, leveraging for a roster addition at the trade deadline, etc. That isn't much room. If Travis Boyd were resigned instead of Beagle for, say, $1,000,000 and the other two spots still filled with Hershey graduates, that would leave $2,000,000+ available, enough to have a 23rd player on the roster or have a much more comfortable salary cap buffer.
That is where I see the team as being for now.
NOTE: I get fuzzy and say "less than $2,000,000" for two Hershey call-ups because many but not all of the minor league contracts are for the league minimum of $650,000 if the player plays in the NHL. In fact, several of the most likely players to fill the NHL roster in the fall would count more than $650,000, though virtually all of them would have a cap hit under $1,000,000
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Please spare me the argument on Beagle. He has been a selfless, hardworking player that gets 110% out of his abilities. He is the role model that every coach points to and wants in the lockeroom. If anyone wants to say there are other guys that are better at this or that, just shut the hell up!
Let’s all agree that we would love to have him back and if not, that we appreciate what he did for us and wish him well.
All I am saying is Beagle is replaceable. Of course I'd like him to return but if we lose him it isn't the end if the world.
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And recognize what we’ve lost, not only faceoffs, but PK, multipostional, and an elite defensive specialist.
Boyd, Greish, etc are good and all but they ain’t gonna be that level for a looong time if at all
I guess my opinion differs slightly on Beagle. He is better than average on the pk and defensively but I wouldn't call him elite in either of those situations. I honestly think nStephenson is already better than Beagle in those situations or at least as good. Stephenson also bring a bit more offensive upside.
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Everyone here seems disappointed that we are losing Beagle. I'm still not convinced that he won't he back. I'm sure teams will show some interest but he won't be getting a big contract or a longterm deal.
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Everyone here seems disappointed that we are losing Beagle. I'm still not convinced that he won't he back. I'm sure teams will show some interest but he won't be getting a big contract or a longterm deal.
Agree. He has a lot of respects from the Fans.
May be he is looking for a bigger role, rather than 4th line center, although he plays PK, too.
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Agree. He has a lot of respects from the Fans.
May be he is looking for a bigger role, rather than 4th line center, although he plays PK, too.
A couple of years ago he was 3rd line center for a little bit -- which I think he said at the time was his ultimate goal in the NHL. Then the Caps traded for Eller specifically to fill that role, because he's a couple of steps above Beagle in offensive potential and also a good defender, and Beagle was bumped back down. To be honest, I think 4th line C is the role Beagle is made for. He not only plays PK, he plays a lot in the last 5 minutes of games where the Caps are trying to hold a lead. Especially on defensive zone face-offs, down the stretch it was usually Beagle and either Eller or Backstrom on the ice. Whose ice time is cut back to accommodate that change? Well, Ovie for one. If you watch carefully, you will not see him much down the stretch in games where the Caps have a 1-goal lead. Conversely, of course, you see a heck of a lot of him down the stretch in games where the Caps face a 1-goal deficit.
If Beagle is going to get a 3rd line center role, it's going to be on a lesser team. Which would he rather do, have a greater role on a lesser team or a lesser role on the Caps? Of course, there IS always the money. It's one thing for a 26-year-old DSP to take a lesser offer to stay on a team that is a good fit, where he can potentially build his resume. It's quite another for a 33-year-old Beagle to do it.
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Nobody's really mentioned Beagle as being "glue".. Loosing guys like him can take a toll in other ways, besides taking faceoffs and killing penalties, etc.. We've lost Orpik, probably Beagle.. Who's the other "hard working" veterans that set an example for the locker room? Oshie? That's about it and he's only been here a few years.. Im sure Nicky, Ovie, Carlson, etc. work hard, but I've never heard mention of their "work ethic" or anything..
Just something else to think on, when we say our apparent goodbye's to another excellent heart/motor man.. :-(
Wilson. Believe it or not, he is a 5-year vet now.
If Orpik is not brought back, I wonder who if anyone gets his "A"? Who are the viable candidates? Oshie, I'd think. Maybe Wilson, but he's a little young despite his vet status. Carlson maybe -- it might not make motivational sense, but it would make organizational sense. He IS a long-time vet after all, and he will be around for 8 more years.
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Everyone here seems disappointed that we are losing Beagle. I'm still not convinced that he won't he back. I'm sure teams will show some interest but he won't be getting a big contract or a longterm deal.
All the rumors right now say he's already agreed in principle to a 3 year deal with the Vancouver Canucks at a AAV of 2.5 per year. So yeah....I do think we have lost him. Beagle is just being nice at this point. Ergo he's waiting till after the day of FA to see if Caps counter offer, or if he just goes with the deal he agreed upon.
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No question Beags will be missed. Hell, we all love the kid - how there is simply no 'cheat' in his game. Never a passenger, always giving it his all and being damned effective at the Dot and on the PK. Tough to replace, for sure. But that's FA, and Beags deserve to get paid. And we simply can't bring everyone back although I would love it if by some miracle Jay returned. Latest rumor I'm hearing is he's going North of the Border, possibly Vancouver. Time will tell. That said, I really love Stephenson's speed and versatility. That versatility is something he and Beags both have in spades, but Chandler is a speedster and Beags is not. We'll be OK, but our boys need to work on their face-offs or we're going to have a noted drop off at the dot in our Cup defending season that starts in the fall.
Our best hope is Stephenson, who showed flashes of defensive acumen during the playoffs combined with speed. But personally I'd be much more comfortable with our bottom six with BOTH Beagle and Stephenson. Considering we have kept DSP as well, throw Eller into that mix? Management shouldn't let the Cup star gaze them, our bottom six were HUGE for the Cup win this past season. Ovie came alive again following the 2nd round, but there several tight games against Tampa elimination games, and even in the 2nd round where it was our role players + TJ Oshie carrying us to wins.
Jay Beagle is huge in all of that, so I hope we can keep him. His faceoff and penalty killing alone, but he also makes some of our other role players better.
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I would like to see Orpik back for (up to) 1.5 mil. If that happens, GMBM is a genius or very F'n lucky.
IF that were to happen we just got back the same player we would have been paying 4x the salary.
Orpik is aged but still effective for all the reasons many of you mentioned. Especially with some still younger D to train. Would he be willing? Beats retiring and who else would pay him? He MIGHT get a 1 year for 2 mil from someone, but would it be worth it to him? I mean it's pennies to him at this point. Why not come back where you won a cup and have an established role.
Even if we lost him it was a very useful trade. Needed the $$$ more than anything.
I like getting Kempney back and the DSP deal is a bargain and 1 year is great.
I hate to lose Beagle, but hated losing Hendricks, etc. I love Beags and everything he brings but his age is gonna impact his play sooner rather than later so unless he is willing to sign short term you got to let him walk. Good for him if he gets paid.
I've never been the biggest Carlson fan (that's Maaco's job) but I'm okay with the deal. Too much term but that's what it took to get it done and what were the other realistic options. Same thing with Kuzy deal and Orlov and so on. I remember all the bitching about those deals but that's what it took at the time. It's the timing of the contacts people forget. You can't fairly compare deals year to year and in salary alone. You have to consider not only the options available but also how they fit our needs. We HAD to sign Kuzy so we did. Same for Orlov, same for Dylan. I don't think anyone can argue Carlson doesn't fit our needs AND our team (shall we discuss Shattenkirk)
I would love a big crease clearing solid D with O skills and so on, but Byfuglin ain't available.
Why haven't we signed Wilson yet? Is it just because Of timing. He (and Carlson...Replacement) were my two biggest concerns. We need to lock up Willy deal.
I'm liking the offseason so far. But then, what the Hell do I know...didn't like last offseason and now we the STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS
GO Caps
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rich, Wilson and to a much lesser extent Bowey were set aside because they were RFA's. The team had to take care of the pending UFA's that they wanted (Carlson, Kempny) first, all the while they were handling the draft and the coaching situation, and doing the trade to free up the cap room to sign the UFA's. Remember, it's only been a few weeks since we won the cup. The exception to this was DSP, but it seems like he sort of fell into their laps, so they took it, I guess.
Wilson may take some time, especially if the team is thinking about trying to sign him to a longer-term deal. I'd think Bowey should be fairly straightforward, but what do I know?
As far as resigning Orpik, I wouldn't mind, on a short-term contract for the right price, but if he goes elsewhere, might there be a similar defenseman on the UFA list (older, basically stay-at-home) that we could pick up?
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The 1908s are in New Orleans. . .
I’m trying to replenish the alcohol I am sweating out. . .
. . . PSA: faux goth-vampire wanna be fags are even dumber than nornalb when wearing trench coats in 90+ degree heat
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I would like to see Orpik back for (up to) 1.5 mil. If that happens, GMBM is a genius or very F'n lucky.
IF that were to happen we just got back the same player we would have been paying 4x the salary.
Orpik is aged but still effective for all the reasons many of you mentioned. Especially with some still younger D to train. Would he be willing? Beats retiring and who else would pay him? He MIGHT get a 1 year for 2 mil from someone, but would it be worth it to him? I mean it's pennies to him at this point. Why not come back where you won a cup and have an established role.
Even if we lost him it was a very useful trade. Needed the $$$ more than anything.
I like getting Kempney back and the DSP deal is a bargain and 1 year is great.
I hate to lose Beagle, but hated losing Hendricks, etc. I love Beags and everything he brings but his age is gonna impact his play sooner rather than later so unless he is willing to sign short term you got to let him walk. Good for him if he gets paid.
I've never been the biggest Carlson fan (that's Maaco's job) but I'm okay with the deal. Too much term but that's what it took to get it done and what were the other realistic options. Same thing with Kuzy deal and Orlov and so on. I remember all the bitching about those deals but that's what it took at the time. It's the timing of the contacts people forget. You can't fairly compare deals year to year and in salary alone. You have to consider not only the options available but also how they fit our needs. We HAD to sign Kuzy so we did. Same for Orlov, same for Dylan. I don't think anyone can argue Carlson doesn't fit our needs AND our team (shall we discuss Shattenkirk)
I would love a big crease clearing solid D with O skills and so on, but Byfuglin ain't available.
Why haven't we signed Wilson yet? Is it just because Of timing. He (and Carlson...Replacement) were my two biggest concerns. We need to lock up Willy deal.
I'm liking the offseason so far. But then, what the Hell do I know...didn't like last offseason and now we the STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS
GO Caps
I wouldn't mind getting Orpik at a low cost. Other than Djoos, I prefer him over any of our other youngsters.
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I wouldn't mind getting Orpik at a low cost. Other than Djoos, I prefer him over any of our other youngsters.
I'm not very high on Djoos. He is OK when carrying the puck. But the rest of his game is weak. Not great defensively which is why the Caps sheltered him as much as possible. His biggest weakness is his lack of strength. He gets pushed off the puck too easy. He can't win any battles. I could see a couple of our prospects possibly passing him on the depth chart in the future.
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Djoos will never be a physical DMan, OK? But his puck moving, passing, and speed make him a lock moving forward - at least as a bottom pairing DMan. I see no scenario whatsoever where he isn't in the lineup regularly. But I would agree his size / physicality limitations will probably prevent him from becoming a Top 4 Defender. The one who disappointed me the most last season was young Madison Bowey. Clearly an athletic specimen, there just wasn't enough 'jam' in his game - in my book. Hoping he grows, matures, and manufactures a mean streak. As for young DMen in the pipeline, I love the Russian Kid (Alex Squared) we just drafted and see him making a speedy trip to the Bigs (alongside another former first round Russian, Samsonov). But the guys we took in the 2nd round (this year and a couple years back)? Just not seeing what the club / Mahoney was or is seeing with those cats. Who else do folks think will press for Orpik's spot in that 3rd D pairing (assuming Orpik gets paid somewhere else)?
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Djoos will never be a physical DMan, OK? But his puck moving, passing, and speed make him a lock moving forward - at least as a bottom pairing DMan. I see no scenario whatsoever where he isn't in the lineup regularly. But I would agree his size / physicality limitations will probably prevent him from becoming a Top 4 Defender. The one who disappointed me the most last season was young Madison Bowey. Clearly an athletic specimen, there just wasn't enough 'jam' in his game - in my book. Hoping he grows, matures, and manufactures a mean streak. As for young DMen in the pipeline, I love the Russian Kid (Alex Squared) we just drafted and see him making a speedy trip to the Bigs (alongside another former first round Russian, Samsonov). But the guys we took in the 2nd round (this year and a couple years back)? Just not seeing what the club / Mahoney was or is seeing with those cats. Who else do folks think will press for Orpik's spot in that 3rd D pairing (assuming Orpik gets paid somewhere else)?
I think Bowey has more long term uoside than Djoos. Sure Djoos is a better puck mover and maybe a better skater but Bowey is better at everything else. Bowey needs to make quicker decisions. That will come with experience. He does have the size and strength to be an NHL defence man. He has a good shot and is an adequate passer. He needs to work on some things.
Djoos on the other hand isnt very good defensively which is why he was he was sheltered as much as possible. His lack of strength is a big problem in the defensive zone. He loses every battle and gets knocked off the puck too easily. He is literally the weakest defence man physically that I have ever seen in the NHL. If he can't add some strength I can see some other guys in the system passing him on the depth chart. Bowey and our 2018 1st round pick Alex Alexeyev aren't our only prospects. We also have Johansen, Hobbs and Seigenthalter coming up. Some people think Lewington should even get a shot. I think that's a long shot though. Lewinton is tough and physical but he brings nothing else. He isn't even great defensively.
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Thx Maaco for the insights about our D prospects. One of the guys at Russian Machine questioned the 2nd round DMan we picked a couple weeks ago as well as Seigenthalter. We'll see if those concerns of the Slovakian and Seigenthaler being 'over drafted' as 2nd rounders when their names were called end up being spot on or not. I share your concern about Djoos needing to get more physical or being passed over in time by Bowey or others should those challengers for that bottom pairing DMan role step up their games.
Not sure if this is fair or not, but after the Prospects 'Development' Camp, I'm seeing Johansen and Alexeyev as having the most upside - more so than Djoos or Bowey, or any of the others. If you had to rank our D prospects in the pipeline, say from 1 to 6 (including Djoos), how would you rank them?
I think Bowey has more long term uoside than Djoos. Sure Djoos is a better puck mover and maybe a better skater but Bowey is better at everything else. Bowey needs to make quicker decisions. That will come with experience. He does have the size and strength to be an NHL defence man. He has a good shot and is an adequate passer. He needs to work on some things.
Djoos on the other hand isnt very good defensively which is why he was he was sheltered as much as possible. His lack of strength is a big problem in the defensive zone. He loses every battle and gets knocked off the puck too easily. He is literally the weakest defence man physically that I have ever seen in the NHL. If he can't add some strength I can see some other guys in the system passing him on the depth chart. Bowey and our 2018 1st round pick Alex Alexeyev aren't our only prospects. We also have Johansen, Hobbs and Seigenthalter coming up. Some people think Lewington should even get a shot. I think that's a long shot though. Lewinton is tough and physical but he brings nothing else. He isn't even great defensively.
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Still no word on Wislon, we did qualify him so it's not like he can go to another team. But curious if he ends up going to Arbitration? If so we could be looking at a big paycheck. I figure he'd be the perfect fit for a bridge deal, a few years at a little bump now for a bigger raise at the end. We'll see.
I'm kinda curious if we do anything else here. Orpik still on the market, DeHann still on the market. I'm assuming our target is D? We could probably use another fourth line forward as well. May not fit the bill completely of fourth liner, but he could be cheaper than Beagle, Patrick Maroon would be an interesting option as well. I know DC would love that what with him being 6'3 225lb. But shoring up that bottom six would be great. I absolutely would have no problem with Maroon playing wing next to Lars Eller. Hell throw DSP on the other wing and you'd have a pretty formidable third line.
I hope BMGM is still out there though. Losing Beagle matters. And while we do have some kids looking for promotions/some players to fill in some roles. The goal should be to repeat here, so adding where we can should absolutely be on the table.
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I think Bowey has more long term uoside than Djoos. Sure Djoos is a better puck mover and maybe a better skater but Bowey is better at everything else. Bowey needs to make quicker decisions. That will come with experience. He does have the size and strength to be an NHL defence man. He has a good shot and is an adequate passer. He needs to work on some things.
Djoos on the other hand isnt very good defensively which is why he was he was sheltered as much as possible. His lack of strength is a big problem in the defensive zone. He loses every battle and gets knocked off the puck too easily. He is literally the weakest defence man physically that I have ever seen in the NHL. If he can't add some strength I can see some other guys in the system passing him on the depth chart. Bowey and our 2018 1st round pick Alex Alexeyev aren't our only prospects. We also have Johansen, Hobbs and Seigenthalter coming up. Some people think Lewington should even get a shot. I think that's a long shot though. Lewinton is tough and physical but he brings nothing else. He isn't even great defensively.
From watching the games last season, I'd say that Bowey right now is as good as any defenseman we have at making outlet passes. His weakness last season was along the walls. Not so much being outmuscled for the puck, but he seemed to have trouble figuring out where he should be relative to the puck to play it. He would consistently get on the wrong side of the puck and an opponent would just skate away with it. You could see the difference in opponents' strategy when the puck was in his area as opposed to when it was going to Carlson or Niskanen on the same side. Lots of times when those two had the puck at the boards opponents would lay off and lurk, hoping to pick off an ill-advised pass. Lots of people here complained about Carlson and Nisky turnovers, and opponents thought the same thing. On the other hand, when the puck was headed to Bowey, opponents would attack immediately, knowing they could carry the puck away, rather than hope that he would make an errant pass.
Too bad to lose Beagle, but $3 million AAV for 4 years was something we were never going to compete with. Can't blame him for going for that payday. What do people think about Antoine Vermette as a UFO replacement for Beagle? He should come much cheaper. I don't think he has nearly the motor that Beagle does, but throughout his career he has consistently been as good as anyone in the league in the face-off circle -- even a little bit better than Beagle.
As for the Defensemen, I am not impressed with Djoos's speed. If he has it, I rarely if ever saw him use it (like, for example, Nate Schmidt.) I think he survives on guile and smarts -- he is an EXTREMELY smart player. But size-wise, he is what he is and I don't think it will change significantly at this point. I have more faith in Bowey's potential than most, and I expect he will be on the roster full-time this season. I can see the logic in getting a more veteran, tough, stay at home defenseman to bridge the gap until the prospect pipeline sorts itself out. Whether it's Orpik or someone of a similar nature I don't know, but if it occurs it's going to have to be on the cheap.
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From watching the games last season, I'd say that Bowey right now is as good as any defenseman we have at making outlet passes. His weakness last season was along the walls. Not so much being outmuscled for the puck, but he seemed to have trouble figuring out where he should be relative to the puck to play it. He would consistently get on the wrong side of the puck and an opponent would just skate away with it. You could see the difference in opponents' strategy when the puck was in his area as opposed to when it was going to Carlson or Niskanen on the same side. Lots of times when those two had the puck at the boards opponents would lay off and lurk, hoping to pick off an ill-advised pass. Lots of people here complained about Carlson and Nisky turnovers, and opponents thought the same thing. On the other hand, when the puck was headed to Bowey, opponents would attack immediately, knowing they could carry the puck away, rather than hope that he would make an errant pass.
Too bad to lose Beagle, but $3 million AAV for 4 years was something we were never going to compete with. Can't blame him for going for that payday. What do people think about Antoine Vermette as a UFO replacement for Beagle? He should come much cheaper. I don't think he has nearly the motor that Beagle does, but throughout his career he has consistently been as good as anyone in the league in the face-off circle -- even a little bit better than Beagle.
As for the Defensemen, I am not impressed with Djoos's speed. If he has it, I rarely if ever saw him use it (like, for example, Nate Schmidt.) I think he survives on guile and smarts -- he is an EXTREMELY smart player. But size-wise, he is what he is and I don't think it will change significantly at this point. I have more faith in Bowey's potential than most, and I expect he will be on the roster full-time this season. I can see the logic in getting a more veteran, tough, stay at home defenseman to bridge the gap until the prospect pipeline sorts itself out. Whether it's Orpik or someone of a similar nature I don't know, but if it occurs it's going to have to be on the cheap.
Not to advise this, but you all are aware that our old friend Chorney is out there, and could be had for less than $1 million?
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Thx Maaco for the insights about our D prospects. One of the guys at Russian Machine questioned the 2nd round DMan we picked a couple weeks ago as well as Seigenthalter. We'll see if those concerns of the Slovakian and Seigenthaler being 'over drafted' as 2nd rounders when their names were called end up being spot on or not. I share your concern about Djoos needing to get more physical or being passed over in time by Bowey or others should those challengers for that bottom pairing DMan role step up their games.
Not sure if this is fair or not, but after the Prospects 'Development' Camp, I'm seeing Johansen and Alexeyev as having the most upside - more so than Djoos or Bowey, or any of the others. If you had to rank our D prospects in the pipeline, say from 1 to 6 (including Djoos), how would you rank them?
Ranking our d prospects is tough. Right now Djoos is probably a bit a head of the other guys. I think sending Bowey back to Hershey was good for him. He played well when he was sent down and I think he would be right behind Djoos. After that Johansen, Hobbs and Seigenthalter are fairly even. I might give a slight edge to Hobbs because he is a right handed dman. We dont have as many right handed dmen. Alex Alexeyev would be behind them just because he hasn't played any in the pros yet. Lewington could be in the mix too if they want to add a physical presence.
Its possible we could trade some defensive prospects for some talent upfront. We dont have a lot of forwards that look promising.
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Not to advise this, but you all are aware that our old friend Chorney is out there, and could be had for less than $1 million?
I really liked Chorney and thought he was playing well for us before he was the odd man out when they got the best defenseman ever - Shattenkirk. I think that ruined Chorney’s confidence and he hasn’t been the same since.
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Still no word on Wislon, we did qualify him so it's not like he can go to another team. But curious if he ends up going to Arbitration? If so we could be looking at a big paycheck. I figure he'd be the perfect fit for a bridge deal, a few years at a little bump now for a bigger raise at the end. We'll see.
I'm kinda curious if we do anything else here. Orpik still on the market, DeHann still on the market. I'm assuming our target is D? We could probably use another fourth line forward as well. May not fit the bill completely of fourth liner, but he could be cheaper than Beagle, Patrick Maroon would be an interesting option as well. I know DC would love that what with him being 6'3 225lb. But shoring up that bottom six would be great. I absolutely would have no problem with Maroon playing wing next to Lars Eller. Hell throw DSP on the other wing and you'd have a pretty formidable third line.
I hope BMGM is still out there though. Losing Beagle matters. And while we do have some kids looking for promotions/some players to fill in some roles. The goal should be to repeat here, so adding where we can should absolutely be on the table.
Id love to get Maroon and or DeHaan, but they are not the entertainment first players, or the cheap day-laboursto fill out n"the bottom six" Monumental insists on.
Cone on, there are the guys that think Nick Dowd is just fine to replace that worthless scrub Jay Beagle
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Id love to get Maroon and or DeHaan, but they are not the entertainment first players, or the cheap day-laboursto fill out n"the bottom six" Monumental insists on.
Cone on, there are the guys that think Nick Dowd is just fine to replace that worthless scrub Jay Beagle
I think it will be Stephenson replacing Beagle. I wouldn't have a problem if we picked up Maroon to play the wing that Stephenson leaves vacant when he gets switched to center. This is wishful thinking.
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Maaco - clearly, we need to start adding skilled forwards to the pipeline in future Drafts.
The key, for me, is seeing Vrana and Burakovsky becoming sick, speedy, and skilled forwards that are potting 20 to 30 goals - and timely ones at that.
Those two have to make the jump Kuzy did - not saying they can have that level of impact (and they're wingers, not pivots), but that's the expectation I believe they need to have for themselves.
And in the bottom six, I really want to see Stephenson, Boyd and Walker up their games. That happens, we have some time to get the pipeline packed with prospects for the forward ranks as Ovi and Nicky start slowing down (or worse, 'move on' when both have their deals come up for renewal in 2 years or so).
Ranking our d prospects is tough. Right now Djoos is probably a bit a head of the other guys. I think sending Bowey back to Hershey was good for him. He played well when he was sent down and I think he would be right behind Djoos. After that Johansen, Hobbs and Seigenthalter are fairly even. I might give a slight edge to Hobbs because he is a right handed dman. We dont have as many right handed dmen. Alex Alexeyev would be behind them just because he hasn't played any in the pros yet. Lewington could be in the mix too if they want to add a physical presence.
Its possible we could trade some defensive prospects for some talent upfront. We dont have a lot of forwards that look promising.
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Don't know if this was expected or not, but another coach gone to the Islanders.. Lambert to join Trotz in NY.. (https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2018/07/05/lane-lambert-leaves-capitals-to-be-on-barry-trotzs-coaching-staff-with-new-york-islanders/) And apparently Mitch Korn may be next.. (Ō_ƆŎ) :-\
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Don't know if this was expected or not, but another coach gone to the Islanders.. Lambert to join Trotz in NY.. (https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2018/07/05/lane-lambert-leaves-capitals-to-be-on-barry-trotzs-coaching-staff-with-new-york-islanders/) And apparently Mitch Korn may be next.. (Ō_ƆŎ) :-\
I would classify it as "not surprising." One thing a new coach likes to do is surround himself with people with whom he feels comfortable. And all indications were that Trotz was generally very comfortable with his coaching staff.
This is another reason why the Trotz/Reirden situation had to be resolved quickly -- so that both could deal with having who they wanted on their coaching staffs. To be honest, we have no idea which if any of the remaining staff Reirden would have wanted to keep.
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I see Korn going with Trotz as well. Which sucks for the Caps. They had better find a real goalie coach for Holts, otherwise our Vezina goalie will go the way Carey did.
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I see Korn going with Trotz as well. Which sucks for the Caps. They had better find a real goalie coach for Holts, otherwise our Vezina goalie will go the way Carry did.
Except Carey wasnt a vezina calibre goaltender. He had one decent season. His numbers weren't even over the top the season that he won the vezina. He really wasn't a very good goalie. After we traded him, his numbers were terrible. He ended up back in the AHL.
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Except Carey wasnt a vezina calibre goaltender. He had one decent season. His numbers weren't even over the top the season that he won the vezina. He really wasn't a very good goalie. After we traded him, his numbers were terrible. He ended up back in the AHL.
If you guys are referring to CAREY PRICE one of the best goalies to play the game currently playing in Montreal I don't really know what to tell you. Not a Vezina caliber goalie? Also he never played for us. Perhaps your talking about another player.
Also Alta, don't get crazy. While I agree Mitch Korn is a fantastic goalie coach, and it's a tough loss for us...it's not the end of the world. Let us not ourselves here. While this team certainly still has problems, regardless of who the goalie coach is Braden Holtby is absolutely not one of them.
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If you guys are referring to CAREY PRICE one of the best goalies to play the game currently playing in Montreal I don't really know what to tell you. Not a Vezina caliber goalie? Also he never played for us. Perhaps your talking about another player.
Also Alta, don't get crazy. While I agree Mitch Korn is a fantastic goalie coach, and it's a tough loss for us...it's not the end of the world. Let us not ourselves here. While this team certainly still has problems, regardless of who the goalie coach is Braden Holtby is absolutely not one of them.
The discussion was about former Caps goalie Jim Carey, Devise.
Interestingly, there are now 43 players that have filed for arbitration in the NHL by today's deadline, and Tom Wilson is NOT one of them. The only Cap that filed for arbitration is Liam O'Brien, and I can't imagine that that arbitration case is going to make anybody lose sleep. I presume that Wilson didn't file because he sees promise in ongoing negotiations. Maybe a longer-term deal WILL be worked out with him.
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If you guys are referring to CAREY PRICE one of the best goalies to play the game currently playing in Montreal I don't really know what to tell you. Not a Vezina caliber goalie? Also he never played for us. Perhaps your talking about another player.
Also Alta, don't get crazy. While I agree Mitch Korn is a fantastic goalie coach, and it's a tough loss for us...it's not the end of the world. Let us not ourselves here. While this team certainly still has problems, regardless of who the goalie coach is Braden Holtby is absolutely not one of them.
:-\ My concern is Korn seems to be one of the few goalie coaches the Caps have had that has a good influence on Holts, thus my concern over coaching Holts. If it weren't obvious that Holts benefits greatly from Korns coaching style there would be no great concern.
and who's getting crazy??
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:-\ My concern is Korn seems to be one of the few goalie coaches the Caps have had that has a good influence on Holts, thus my concern over coaching Holts. If it weren't obvious that Holts benefits greatly from Korns coaching style there would be no great concern.
and who's getting crazy??
I agree. Holtby is a different goalie with Korn around.
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I'm not saying he's not shown he's different when Korn has been around. However, I do think Holts isn't given enough credit for maturing. This feels like old water at this point. Like yes, when Trotz and co first showed up Holtby had a lot of goalie coach problems and re-figuring himself out to do. But that was 4 seasons ago. He's had Vezinas, deep playoff runs, clutch playoff performances, and now a Cup sense then.
At a certain point Holtby is going to turn into a Marty Broduer type here, and be the type of goalie that doesn't need to be babysat to help carry his team. I guess I just don't think Korn is nearly as important as he used to be, specific to Holtby.
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I'm not saying he's not shown he's different when Korn has been around. However, I do think Holts isn't given enough credit for maturing. This feels like old water at this point. Like yes, when Trotz and co first showed up Holtby had a lot of goalie coach problems and re-figuring himself out to do. But that was 4 seasons ago. He's had Vezinas, deep playoff runs, clutch playoff performances, and now a Cup sense then.
At a certain point Holtby is going to turn into a Marty Broduer type here, and be the type of goalie that doesn't need to be babysat to help carry his team. I guess I just don't think Korn is nearly as important as he used to be, specific to Holtby.
In any sport there are some people who seem to "do things naturally" and may seem to be independent of coaching, while others "tend to go off their game periodically" and need to be put or kept on track. For the latter kind of athlete, some can work well with almost any competent coach; others seem to mesh with particular people/personalities (and some never seem to find anyone from whom they can productively take direction.) Whatever type of person Holtby is, he's simply going to react to the change from Korn if/when it occurs. Even if Korn has been able to "get through" to Holtby in a beneficial way, nothing says there can't be someone else who can connect with him in the same way. It seems to me that, since a goalie coach focuses on one or two people, THAT coach might be one where not only the head coach, but at least the starting goalie, should have some input regarding the hire.
The only constant is change.
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Two comments:
(1) it appears that Korn wasn't all that influential to Holtby this past season anyway. He apparently had turned over the goaltending coach position to Murray and was around only in an advisory capacity. How much he may have come "out of the woodwork" to turn Holtby around for the playoffs we don't know. But Braden's season was what it was.
(2) It was announced that Wilson declined arbitration before Thursday's deadline. But there was an analogous deadline the next day for the team to choose arbitration if it wanted. I have heard nothing about whether or not the team chose to request arbitration with Wilson, and we know that they'd prefer to sign him to a long-term deal, but the arbitration would be a fallback (I understand that the parties can continue to negotiate until the actual arbitration hearing occurrs.) I presume, since there has been no word, that the team did not invoke arbitration, but it would be nice to have some confirmation of that.
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If neither party requests arbitration, does that allow Wilson to become unrestricted if they don't reach a deal? I suppose if that's the case, the Caps would never let it get to that.. When is the deadline for arbitration? Or is there one?
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If neither party requests arbitration, does that allow Wilson to become unrestricted if they don't reach a deal? I suppose if that's the case, the Caps would never let it get to that.. When is the deadline for arbitration? Or is there one?
The deadline for arbitration has past for both the player and team. From what I have been reading they are close to signing a long term deal. The only leverage Wilson has now is to hold out if an agreement is not reached. He does not become an UFA. I am confident a deal will get done soon maybe this week.
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The deadline for arbitration has past for both the player and team. From what I have been reading they are close to signing a long term deal. The only leverage Wilson has now is to hold out if an agreement is not reached. He does not become an UFA. I am confident a deal will get done soon maybe this week.
Soooo, correct me if I am wrong - but the only way we could lose Wilson (this upcoming season) is if he DID file for arbitration, allowed it to go that level and then the Club decided not to pay what the arbitrator decided what a fair deal would have been ... then he would become a UFA, right? So right now, since Wilson did not apply for arbitration, he can either work a deal with the Club or not play NHL hockey (or the Caps can trade his "rights").
PS - please Caps, resign LOB ... if he's getting better, he's exactly the kind of guy we need on the 4th line.
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Soooo, correct me if I am wrong - but the only way we could lose Wilson (this upcoming season) is if he DID file for arbitration, allowed it to go that level and then the Club decided not to pay what the arbitrator decided what a fair deal would have been ... then he would become a UFA, right? So right now, since Wilson did not apply for arbitration, he can either work a deal with the Club or not play NHL hockey (or the Caps can trade his "rights").
PS - please Caps, resign LOB ... if he's getting better, he's exactly the kind of guy we need on the 4th line.
You are correct, if Wilson had filed for arbitration and won and if the amount awarded was over a certain amount, I am not sure what that figure is, the Caps could decline the contract and Wilson would become a free agent.
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Yeah Wilson not filing is great for us. He has no intention of going anywhere else and they clearly want to get a long term deal locked up so we don't have to worry about his contract for seasons. I think we'll sign him for sure, no problems. Just about figuring out the term I'd imagine, and less the salary. We probably want 5+ years of him, and I can't blame BMGM for that. Right now Wilson is probably one of our biggest grit pieces that we can't afford to lose. And I imagine Wilsons agent wants a bit more money (especially in later seasons) if he's going to give up so many seasons term wise.
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There is one other conceivable way that the Caps could lose Wilson. And that is if some other team signed him to an offer sheet that the Capitals could not or would not match. Then he would belong to the other team and the Caps would be due compensation based on the AAV of the offer sheet.
This is a tactic rarely tried and almost never successful. The only possible concern that it COULD conceivably happen is that at this point, Wilson is pretty much a unique talent in the league (a tough guy who appears to have grown into a legitimate top-6 forward). Because of that, some team might conceivably take a run at him (pun intended).
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Do they (another team) just have to make the offer, or would Wilson have to agree/sign the offer, before the Caps would have to match it?
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Do they (another team) just have to make the offer, or would Wilson have to agree/sign the offer, before the Caps would have to match it?
He would have to accept the offer sheet...
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Cool, so some crappy/cap friendly team can't just throw out a number knowing Wilson wouldn't want to to play there, but make us pay it.. Makes sense. :wackysmile:
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I'm not saying he's not shown he's different when Korn has been around. However, I do think Holts isn't given enough credit for maturing. This feels like old water at this point. Like yes, when Trotz and co first showed up Holtby had a lot of goalie coach problems and re-figuring himself out to do. But that was 4 seasons ago. He's had Vezinas, deep playoff runs, clutch playoff performances, and now a Cup sense then.
At a certain point Holtby is going to turn into a Marty Broduer type here, and be the type of goalie that doesn't need to be babysat to help carry his team. I guess I just don't think Korn is nearly as important as he used to be, specific to Holtby.
I was thinking, (to say this is sarcastic fiction is an under statement), I’d be dam cool if they gave Korn the head coaching job. . . He could still work with Holts for a few minutes a month and train his replacement goalie coach so we’d another elite goalie coach. He could also design a goalie based based system to not only protect him from shots, but he could also assist in identifying the weakness of the other goalies and have a system that can be adjusted to take the shots specifically at them.
Now they already do this, but a position coach does not have the power to adjust the system and game plan of a head coach.
Now this sounds interesting and all, but it would never happen. Particularly here.
Besides, I can think of a Goalie coach that’s been made a head coach. Hell Roy is the former goalie to have a head coach job that I can think of . . .
But like I said this is just a “what if”
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I was thinking, (to say this is sarcastic fiction is an under statement), I’d be dam cool if they gave Korn the head coaching job. . . He could still work with Holts for a few minutes a month and train his replacement goalie coach so we’d another elite goalie coach. He could also design a goalie based based system to not only protect him from shots, but he could also assist in identifying the weakness of the other goalies and have a system that can be adjusted to take the shots specifically at them.
Now they already do this, but a position coach does not have the power to adjust the system and game plan of a head coach.
Now this sounds interesting and all, but it would never happen. Particularly here.
Besides, I can think of a Goalie coach that’s been made a head coach. Hell Roy is the former goalie to have a head coach job that I can think of . . .
But like I said this is just a “what if”
I've always wondered why more goalies hadn't become head coaches. Who sees more of what happens on the ice than the goalie. You can see plays developed from the goalie position. An exgoalie that I think would make a good coach is Kelly Hrudey. He seems to really know the game inside out.
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I've always wondered why more goalies hadn't become head coaches. Who sees more of what happens on the ice than the goalie. You can see plays developed from the goalie position. An exgoalie that I think would make a good coach is Kelly Hrudey. He seems to really know the game inside out.
Exactly. i can only speculate a goaltender coach is such a specialized position that movement to even assistant is difficult and/or rarely desired.
Or maybe the cliche term “Goalie World” is true for most. Hell Ron Hextall is the only one I can think of that is in the force office.
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Patrick Roy was a head coach in Colorado a couple of seasons, won the jack Adams. Martin brodure is currently an assistant gm with the st.louis blues
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Patrick Roy was a head coach in Colorado a couple of seasons, won the jack Adams. Martin brodure is currently an assistant gm with the st.louis blues
Touche. . . I forgot about Marty!
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Touche. . . I forgot about Marty!
Garth Snow was a GM until recently. Not a very good GM I might add.
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Garth Snow was a GM until recently. Not a very good GM I might add.
oh that’s right . . .
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Only because he was slamming the owner's daughter so does that really count? Lol
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Look at Capfriendly [https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/capitals], it's looks like Wilson and Bowey are the two outstanding issues.
Does anyone know of any timeline the Caps need to meet to get these two signed? Since neither has a contract for next year, do they just need to be signed before training camp? I've read somewhere that the Caps were looking to go longer term with Wilson, which I like.
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Look at Capfriendly [https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/capitals], it's looks like Wilson and Bowey are the two outstanding issues.
Does anyone know of any timeline the Caps need to meet to get these two signed? Since neither has a contract for next year, do they just need to be signed before training camp? I've read somewhere that the Caps were looking to go longer term with Wilson, which I like.
It's depends how the CBA is written, but I'm guessing the player has to have a contract by the time the season starts.
I'd love to see Willy signed long term too. But what's long term? If I were the GM, regardless of the cap hit, I wouldn't go longer than 6 years. Thats the longest I'd go for these days for anyone. IMHO, the Oshie contract is too long, thankfully it's not a major cap hit like Carlsons is. Carlsons contract is gonna hurt this team in the next couple years. After getting burned by Jäger, I was amazed Ted signed OVs extension, 13 years was too long, and I think he got a little contract lazy the past few years.
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It's depends how the CBA is written, but I'm guessing the player has to have a contract by the time the season starts.
I'd love to see Willy signed long term too. But what's long term? If I were the GM, regardless of the cap hit, I wouldn't go longer than 6 years. Thats the longest I'd go for these days for anyone. IMHO, the Oshie contract is too long, thankfully it's not a major cap hit like Carlsons is. Carlsons contract is gonna hurt this team in the next couple years. After getting burned by Jäger, I was amazed Ted signed OVs extension, 13 years was too long, and I think he got a little contract lazy the past few years.
There is no timeline but obviously they can’t play untill they sign a contract but I don’t see either player holding out.
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And now Bowey is signed -- 2 years at an AAV of $1 million. I'm surprised -- I thought he'd get a bit more than that; I was guessing $1.3 million AAV.
So now the only moves left to make are Wilson and whatever veteran 7th defenseman they bring in.
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My wish list:
Wilson
Bottom pairing veteran D so Bowey is on the outside looking in as the 7th man
Experienced 4th line forward or backup goalie in case current options don't pan out
As it stands (I'm assuming Wilson gets signed), the Caps have a very potent top 9 forwards and top 4 defense
Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson (If Wilson can continue to prove that Top Line Tom is viable and Ovi/Kuzy continue being themselves, this will be a stellar line)
Vrana-Backstrom-Oshie (If Vrana is given more chances to shine under Reirden and steps up, and Backy/Oshie continue being themselves, this will also be a great 2nd line)
Burakovsky-Eller-Connolly (Probably a little more risk with this line. They're all talented players but could easily go cold. Eller and Connolly I'm less concerned about, but Burakovsky is too on/off at times)
Niskanen, Carlson, Orlov, and Kempny are a top 4 that I fully trust. Djoos is a solid bottom pairing guy IMO. I just don't want Bowey to be the 6th guy and force us to play two rookies at all times.
With $7 million in cap space, we should easily be able to sign Wilson and get at least one of the other pieces I'd like to see
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My wish list:
Wilson
Bottom pairing veteran D so Bowey is on the outside looking in as the 7th man
Experienced 4th line forward or backup goalie in case current options don't pan out
As it stands (I'm assuming Wilson gets signed), the Caps have a very potent top 9 forwards and top 4 defense
Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson (If Wilson can continue to prove that Top Line Tom is viable and Ovi/Kuzy continue being themselves, this will be a stellar line)
Vrana-Backstrom-Oshie (If Vrana is given more chances to shine under Reirden and steps up, and Backy/Oshie continue being themselves, this will also be a great 2nd line)
Burakovsky-Eller-Connolly (Probably a little more risk with this line. They're all talented players but could easily go cold. Eller and Connolly I'm less concerned about, but Burakovsky is too on/off at times)
Niskanen, Carlson, Orlov, and Kempny are a top 4 that I fully trust. Djoos is a solid bottom pairing guy IMO. I just don't want Bowey to be the 6th guy and force us to play two rookies at all times.
With $7 million in cap space, we should easily be able to sign Wilson and get at least one of the other pieces I'd like to see
I partially agree. I'm still not sold on Vrana or Burakovsky. I think Vrana can still prove himself but I'd like to see Burakovsky gone. I'd also like to see Stephenson in more than just a checking role. He is very good defensively but he has some skill and is a great skater.
On defense our top 3 is solid. Still not sure about Kempny. He played well in the playoffs, but was it him or the system. He didnt look good when he first got here. We need to see more of him to gauge him better.
I disagree with your assessment on the 3rd pairing. Bowey did struggle last season. He is a rookie so it was expected. Djoos had his struggles too yet you seem to be giving him a free pass. Djoos is better moving the puck but that's about it. He isn't good defensively and he might be physically the weakest player in the NHL. Bowey has enough size and strength to be a solid NHL dman. He also has a decent shot. He just needs to make quicker decisions. I think Bowey passes Djoos on the depth chart before long. Some of our other prospects may pass him too.
To be honest if we add a veteran to play on the 3rd pairing I'd rather see Bowey than Djoos.
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Kempny looked poor when he first got here, but settled in and was fine the rest of the regular season and playoffs. He's not a concern at this point.
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My wish list:
Wilson
Bottom pairing veteran D so Bowey is on the outside looking in as the 7th man
Experienced 4th line forward or backup goalie in case current options don't pan out
As it stands (I'm assuming Wilson gets signed), the Caps have a very potent top 9 forwards and top 4 defense
Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson (If Wilson can continue to prove that Top Line Tom is viable and Ovi/Kuzy continue being themselves, this will be a stellar line)
Vrana-Backstrom-Oshie (If Vrana is given more chances to shine under Reirden and steps up, and Backy/Oshie continue being themselves, this will also be a great 2nd line)
Burakovsky-Eller-Connolly (Probably a little more risk with this line. They're all talented players but could easily go cold. Eller and Connolly I'm less concerned about, but Burakovsky is too on/off at times)
Niskanen, Carlson, Orlov, and Kempny are a top 4 that I fully trust. Djoos is a solid bottom pairing guy IMO. I just don't want Bowey to be the 6th guy and force us to play two rookies at all times.
With $7 million in cap space, we should easily be able to sign Wilson and get at least one of the other pieces I'd like to see
Mostly agree with you entirely here. I'm not sold on Bowey, he needs more time in the AHL. I know some people think he could be something, but I just don't think he has the decision making. Everything I saw of him showed overwhelmed, and not like some of our other rookies. Yes they were making mistakes but it felt like they were making mistakes as they were seasoning into the role, a bad timed pinch here, a mistimed or misplayed break there. Bowey felt like he was overwhelmed by every forecheck, every outlet pass. It just felt like the pace of the game was too much for him.
Now maybe that is just first season jitters or what have you. But until I see otherwise I'm far more excited about Alexeyev, who I think is going to impress people at camp and maybe even sniff a roster spot if not this season next. He's big at 6'4 and the scouts don't dub him your typical soft European players. Just look at some draft profile thoughts here.
https://thehockeywriters.com/alexander-alexeyev-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/ (https://thehockeywriters.com/alexander-alexeyev-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/)
They note his size (he has grown to 6'4, remember as a kid he coudl get bigger), how unlike typical players from Europe he doesn't focus on finesse but instead focuses on a no nonsense mistake free game. Uses his size, is willing to be physical when needs to, has adapted well to the smaller rinks. Not an offensive stud, but he can skate and pass well for a guy his size. All of this to me sounds like the ideal 6th defender we need. We have well more than enough offensive minded defenders, and if we can get a blue liner who can skate and play good defense?
Again, I think people are sleeping on this kid. By next season, he's a head of the depth chart for both Djoos and Bowey for me. If not this season. The only argument I've seen is he may do good with another year of seasoning with the Rebels (my hometown btw Red Deer) in the WHL, which he would be eligible for as he doesn't turn 19 until November.
Moving on from the prospect chart side of things, right now other than a gritty checker on the fourth line to compliment DSP/Stephenson, my biggest concern is also the third line. The only player I'm sure about on that line is Eller. He gives his all every night, crashes the net, forechecks, makes good cycles/passes. The problem is pairing him with shooters and skaters like Connolly and Burt hasn't always proved fruitful. One, tough, gritty like minded player with Eller was great for us. Stephenson sometimes bounced with him, as did DSP and it always worked. I really do feel like our team is structured as such that we only need one of Connolly or Burt, and given trade value and play style I think I'd much rather get rid of Burt and see if we can find a third liner to fit with the structure of that line a lot more.
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Moving on from the prospect chart side of things, right now other than a gritty checker on the fourth line to compliment DSP/Stephenson, my biggest concern is also the third line. The only player I'm sure about on that line is Eller. He gives his all every night, crashes the net, forechecks, makes good cycles/passes. The problem is pairing him with shooters and skaters like Connolly and Burt hasn't always proved fruitful. One, tough, gritty like minded player with Eller was great for us. Stephenson sometimes bounced with him, as did DSP and it always worked. I really do feel like our team is structured as such that we only need one of Connolly or Burt, and given trade value and play style I think I'd much rather get rid of Burt and see if we can find a third liner to fit with the structure of that line a lot more.
My concern about trading Burakovsky is we somehow have a repeat of the Forsberg fiasco where Burakovsky magically turns into a stud within another team. I know I know, different players and different circumstances, but a small part of me wants to continue to develop Burky. On the other hand though, he is way too shaky and way too much of an enigma at times. Some days he's off, and then occasionally he'll have a killer game. I want a consistent player who comes to work every day. I think given Burky's age and potential ceiling, right now his trade value is higher than his actual value to our team. I just don't know if I'd want us to part with him yet.
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I think there is an outside chance that both DSP and Stephenson get 3rd line minutes - particularly if Burky or Conno go cold. Again, good problems to have - i.e., talents like DSP and Stephenson as 4th liners (although replacing Beags is a big ask of Chandler; I'm hopeful he can get it done!).
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I think there is an outside chance that both DSP and Stephenson get 3rd line minutes - particularly if Burky or Conno go cold. Again, good problems to have - i.e., talents like DSP and Stephenson as 4th liners (although replacing Beags is a big ask of Chandler; I'm hopeful he can get it done!).
nice thought, but particularly when everyone is healthy, no way in hell this organization plays better players over Bura & Connolly
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I think there is an outside chance that both DSP and Stephenson get 3rd line minutes - particularly if Burky or Conno go cold. Again, good problems to have - i.e., talents like DSP and Stephenson as 4th liners (although replacing Beags is a big ask of Chandler; I'm hopeful he can get it done!).
Stephenson is already a better all round player than Beagle. The only thing Beagle is better at is faceoffs.
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nice thought, but particularly when everyone is healthy, no way in hell this organization plays better players over Bura & Connolly
You are probably right. I'd like to see Stephenson further up in the lineup. He played on all 4 lines last season and didnt look out if place. DSP is better suited as a 4th line player. He played on other lines but played better on the 4th line.
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I think if Burky can stay healthy he is going to have a big year. His biggest problem the last two years has been getting injured. I am looking for he and Vrana to have big years this season. If they don’t I think it could be a long season. Oshie also needs to have a better season than last year, needs to score at least 25 goals. However, I am very optimistic for the upcoming season, I am not saying they are going to repeat but they will be in contention. BMac has done a great job of acquiring players to fill needs that arise during the season and hopefully that will continue. I can’t wait for the season to get started. Just a couple more months. I do think Toronto will be the team to beat though. With Tavares and Matthews they are going to be tough to beat.
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Bura is still seen as a young guy with a high upside. They are going to give him EVERY chance they can, but I also think if there is limited improvement this year then he may be sent packing at the deadline. Connelly on the other hand is what he is. There is no big potential break out coming there. I don't have a huge issue if the guy plays on the bottom 6, bit also wouldn't be mad if he wasn't here either. I'd like some more grit in the bottom 6.
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I think if Burky can stay healthy he is going to have a big year. His biggest problem the last two years has been getting injured. I am looking for he and Vrana to have big years this season. If they don’t I think it could be a long season. Oshie also needs to have a better season than last year, needs to score at least 25 goals. However, I am very optimistic for the upcoming season, I am not saying they are going to repeat but they will be in contention. BMac has done a great job of acquiring players to fill needs that arise during the season and hopefully that will continue. I can’t wait for the season to get started. Just a couple more months. I do think Toronto will be the team to beat though. With Tavares and Matthews they are going to be tough to beat.
Burakovsky has more problems than getting injured. He is lacking in hockey IQ.
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Bura is still seen as a young guy with a high upside. They are going to give him EVERY chance they can, but I also think if there is limited improvement this year then he may be sent packing at the deadline. Connelly on the other hand is what he is. There is no big potential break out coming there. I don't have a huge issue if the guy plays on the bottom 6, bit also wouldn't be mad if he wasn't here either. I'd like some more grit in the bottom 6.
I'm not high on Connolly myself but I think he is a better player than Burakovsky.
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Haven't been paying attention much.. Any word on Orpik's plans?
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As far as I know Orpik has not signed with anybody yet. I think there is a decent chance he will be back with the Caps this season.
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As far as I know Orpik has not signed with anybody yet. I think there is a decent chance he will be back with the Caps this season.
That would be a good thing, they definitely need his services on the blue line for another year or two and it should be at a much better price this time
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Word is Pacioretty is on the trading block... While I like Burt, he would bring more grit. Not sure I'd do it but... I like Pacioretty but not quite ready to give up on Burt yet.
How do you folks on the get rid of Burt wagon feel aboout it. Pacioretty would cost 1.5 mil more and he's older at 29.
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First gut reaction is it sounds like a short term upgrade at a potential long term cost - but only if Burk continues to improve. Paciorety has 30-39 goals in 4 of the last 5 seasons with 17 last year in an injury shortened season of 64 games. So, I think he's a more reliable 25+ goals than Burk is.
If you want to look at Backstrom under contract for two more years and are willing to pay the $1.5 million premium for Max, I think it sounds like a reasonable "win another now" move, or as Oshie likes to say "Back to Back"..
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Orpik back. 1 year 1 million.
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Orpik back. 1 year 1 million.
Plus a potential $500,000 extra in performance bonuses. I don't know how that works with respect to the salary cap.
One big fish yet to be reeled in.
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Another brilliant move by BMac in retaining Orpik but at a very reasonable price. The thing that impresses me the most about Orpik is his mentorship of the young defenseman. After every practice he stays on the ice working with the young defenseman and is always one of the last players to leave the ice. After his playing days are over I can definitely see him being an assistant coach. This season I see him being in the 7th defenseman role depending on how Bowey progresses and also he will be good insurance in case any of our defenseman get injured.
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I agree. Bringing back Orpik at such a low cost and short term was a smart move by BMac. As much as Orpik has his issues, he's way more manageable at $1 million per year than at $5+ million. I hated Orpik at $5+ million, and wanted him gone. But now that he's cheap, I can't help but think "why the hell not?" I mean, who else could we get for that price that is a veteran presence? This gives the Caps a cheap 6/7 veteran defenseman who can play if Bowey continues to play like an AHLer, and can also mentor the young guys.
With $6.2 million in cap space, let's bring back Wilson and see what we can get with the remaining cash. I think either a veteran backup goalie (if we aren't ready for Copley to be our backup) or a 12th forward (if we don't think Walker, Boyd, or Dowd have what it takes to be the 12th man).
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Zero - totally agree with your post. I ragged on Orpik two years ago and every time he made a mistake it infuriated me because of his salary. Last year he actually had a pretty good year and I didn't mind so much. I really like bringing him back as he is one of our only physical players. You might be right about the coaching angle -maybe that was part of the deal with a promise to ease him into coaching.
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It is a good move by our GM, and it seems like some of this was probably talked through with Brooks before he was even traded. It's sort of shrewd I suppose, and still required Colorado to buy him out. But that was basically a no brainer that it would happen.
I think both parties realized that his fit is perfect here, in a bottom six role mentoring youth coming up. Especially since we drafted a bigger player in the draft this year whose style would be similar to Brooks (although better skater). Get those people learning when not to pinch, when to drop the man, penalty killing etc. It's honestly one of the only reasons I'm kind of very fine with Reirden taking over as Head Coach. Yes as a motivator with experience, I think Trotz was very effective. But I also think, Reirden was in control of this teams entire defense. Penalty killing. And Lambert/Forsythe have been tweaking the only genius we ever got out of Adam Oates, which was a restructured power play set up for years.
If the issue of this team was psyche, watching the group collective come together during the last playoff run was the evidence I needed to believe that this team is above needing an extra head coach just to keep their heads in the game. At least more than what is already provided. I also think Reirdens entire familiarity with our defensive core is a big plus. He worked with Niskanen and Orpik on the Penguins for seasons before they came over here, and he got great work out of Kempny and Carlson too. Looking at our improvements and reasons why we won, yes goaltending and bounces and all the usual jazz. But our defense was much improved from even the Dale Hunter days, much less the days of 2009.
Brooks is getting up there in age though, but I just don't see his playstyle being as such that it should have too much of a effect on him. Even still we can sit him some of the regular season anyways to get the young guys seasoning as they still get his wisdom/experience in camp and when he plays. If the idea is to have Brooks play drill sergeant to an increasing group of D who at some point we need to see taking strides, then I'm totally okay with that.
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Now my brother DC .... don't forget to take your high-blood pressure medication. We all know how much you love Orpik. Just wondering if you can see even a little up-side to this signing. And yes, I'm sorry to say, I'm laughing just a little bit on the inside b/c our only crease-clearer is back.
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Nice to have Orpik back! You can place me firmly in the "I hated on him due to his salary" camp..
As for Burt, I'd move him if the opportunity arose.. He had a good playoffs and is probably at a highpoint for trade/asset bait. I like the kid, but he's just too inconsistent. I don't see him evolving, but I hope Im wrong. (If we keep him) :wackysmile:
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Nice to have Orpik back! You can place me firmly in the "I hated on him due to his salary" camp..
As for Burt, I'd move him if the opportunity arose.. He had a good playoffs and is probably at a highpoint for trade/asset bait. I like the kid, but he's just too inconsistent. I don't see him evolving, but I hope Im wrong. (If we keep him) :wackysmile:
Agree about Orpik. Like him as a player hated the contract. This contract is a steal.
Dont really agree with Burakovsky having a good playoff. He had a couple decent games.
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Dont really agree with Burakovsky having a good playoff. He had a couple decent games.
Oh, that's right. He was injured a bunch of it.. lol The shiny Cup has warped my mind! :rofl: I was just remembering the goals vs Tampa..
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Oh, that's right. He was injured a bunch of it.. lol The shiny Cup has warped my mind! :rofl: I was just remembering the goals vs Tampa..
He makes good moves, sure he scored a few very needed goals, but if you look most he did on his own. He still doesn't blend with other players. Even Vrana uses playmates much better. But I won't surprise if we'll move him, someone we'll crack his code and makes him a great player.
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Agree about Orpik. Like him as a player hated the contract. This contract is a steal.
Everyone loves this deal, it is so much win-win!
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Now my brother DC .... don't forget to take your high-blood pressure medication. We all know how much you love Orpik. Just wondering if you can see even a little up-side to this signing. And yes, I'm sorry to say, I'm laughing just a little bit on the inside b/c our only crease-clearer is back.
well just goes to show how long that is been since we’ve had a real crease-clearing, physical, hard-working smart Dman that some Caps fan consider Hooks one 🤣
In a cooler of Bud Ligh Lime, a plain Budweiser looks like a good beer. But on its own . . .far from it.
This signings clear, first the Avs where willing to do this to get Grubby, and second: it’s because Reidon. They’ve had a long history, Hooks is familiar with the system and will aide on the transition. That’s about it.
We certainly didn’t get a deal on an NHL elite, HOF bound physical defenseman top tier enforcer that some act like we did.
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well just goes to show how long that is been since we’ve had a real crease-clearing, physical, hard-working smart Dman that some Caps fan consider Hooks one 🤣
In a cooler of Bud Ligh Lime, a plain Budweiser looks like a good beer. But on its own . . .far from it.
This signings clear, first the Avs where willing to do this to get Grubby, and second: it’s because Reidon. They’ve had a long history, Hooks is familiar with the system and will aide on the transition. That’s about it.
We certainly didn’t get a deal on an NHL elite, HOF bound physical defenseman top tier enforcer that some act like we did.
Is there an Elite Hof bound physical defenseman top tier enforcer in the NHL?
No there isn't so I'm not sure what your point is.
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We certainly didn’t get a deal on an NHL elite, HOF bound physical defenseman top tier enforcer that some act like we did.
I don't think a single person is acting like did.
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Probably not a surprise, but Korn heads to the Islanders with the rest of em'... :-\
Korn joins Trotz and Lambert in NY (https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2018/07/26/mitch-korn-leaves-capitals-to-join-barry-trotz-and-lane-lambert-with-the-new-york-islanders/). (Named director of goaltending.)
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Probably not a surprise, but Korn heads to the Islanders with the rest of em'... :-\
Korn joins Trotz and Lambert in NY (https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2018/07/26/mitch-korn-leaves-capitals-to-join-barry-trotz-and-lane-lambert-with-the-new-york-islanders/). (Named director of goaltending.)
No, not a surprise. But once again, the organization suffers no real loss of continuity because Korn promoted Scott Murray to goaltender coach last year and worked in more of an advisory capacity. Not to say he won't be missed, but this HAS to be about an extreme an example that I've ever seen of an organizational makeover that isn't really a makeover at all. It's really all about continuation and giving the same band another chance to play the same tune.
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No, not a surprise. But once again, the organization suffers no real loss of continuity because Korn promoted Scott Murray to goaltender coach last year and worked in more of an advisory capacity.
"Korn became the Capitals' director of goaltending ahead of the 2017-18 season. The move was made so that he could scale back his schedule, and spend more time at home. He returned to limited day-to-day operations when goaltender Braden Holtby went through a difficult stretch during February and March."
Hopefully winning the Cup will allow Holtby to not rely so much on Korn.. But I read in the comments below that article, someone quoted the WP, his Sports Psych guy, saying that had to talk him off the ledge.. Something about the goal posts and puck don't know who the "director of goaltending" is.. lol
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Caps sign Wilson, six years 31 million. That is about what people were speculating the contract would be between 4.5 and 5.5 million per year. I think it is a good deal for both sides, Wilson gets long term security and Caps get a reasonabl cap hit although some people may think it is a little high.
That pretty much takes care of business that needed to be done in the off season. Can’t wait for start of training camp.
Reading more, the contract is for 31.02 million with an average of 5.17 per year.
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This is easily my favorite GMBetaMale signing yet,
Willies camp must of made him tap out as it took this long to get a no-brainer, great contract signed. But none the less we will at least have one blue collar, alpha, throwback, old school real hockey player on this team for a while!
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This is easily my favorite GMBetaMale signing yet,
Willies camp must of made him tap out as it took this long to get a no-brainer, great contract signed. But none the less we will at least have one blue collar, alpha, throwback, old school real hockey player on this team for a while!
I predict that Wilson will be the next captain for the Capitals when Ovie retires.
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I predict that Wilson will be the next captain for the Capitals when Ovie retires.
I guess Orpik gets his "A" back? I was thinking Willy deserved that, immediately.. Anyway, love the signing!! I like it when players earn a good salary NOT just based on stats.. He does stuff you can't put on paper! People (well, some anyway) over on HF freaking out cause he got a dollar over 5 mil. lol
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I expected Wilson to be 4.5 at most. Bit of an overpayment IMO, but glad it's 6 years.
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I expected Wilson to be 4.5 at most. Bit of an overpayment IMO, but glad it's 6 years.
For 6 years you have to overpay a little. We have done this with a few quality players now, upping the salary a bit to make sure we get the term we want on some of these guys. I'm overall happy with the contract, although I do think Wilson has to (and likely will) show some improvements on the stat sheet this upcoming season and beyond.
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That's a good contract for Willy, on par with Oshies.
I still think they overpaid for Dylan. And should've let him walk if he didn't sign at 6.5-7
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That's a good contract for Willy, on par with Oshies.
I still think they overpaid for Dylan. And should've let him walk if he didn't sign at 6.5-7
And replace him with what? They didnt really over pay for Carlson. That's were the market is today. If we paid him what the Kings gave Doughty then yeah we overpaid him.
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For 6 years you have to overpay a little. We have done this with a few quality players now, upping the salary a bit to make sure we get the term we want on some of these guys. I'm overall happy with the contract, although I do think Wilson has to (and likely will) show some improvements on the stat sheet this upcoming season and beyond.
For all we know last season might be a career year for Wilson. I sure hope not. Definitely more than I thought he would get.
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It is a bit of an overpay but not the worst thing in the world. Hopefully Wilson will live up to that contract. He's definitely shown he can add value to the top line and PK, and not just be a 4th line goon. Hopefully now that he's getting the big bucks he'll be more careful with his fighting/hitting. Can't afford a top line guy to spend too much time in the box or suspended.
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For 6 years you have to overpay a little. We have done this with a few quality players now, upping the salary a bit to make sure we get the term we want on some of these guys. I'm overall happy with the contract, although I do think Wilson has to (and likely will) show some improvements on the stat sheet this upcoming season and beyond.
while a strong if not unbeatable case for Wilsons contract in dollar value and years for overall player, leadership, example, exceeds the other resigning contracts GMBetaMale has made, a better GM, namely Holland, GMGM, The Captain, Lamerellio, Hextall, or Nill, would have near certainty got a better deal for The Caps.
This is one of the reason I call him GMBetaMale. Each of his resiging deals, and somd trades, have had strong cases for overpaying for to many years, and too many resources. “The Market”, “To Days Game”, has minimal effects on great GMs, and isn’t a significant excuse for overpaying in any business.
Clearly, he is being pushed around by Monumental, and the agents.
As this shows the precedent for future signings has been set for his competition. We should expect no great, if not reasonable, contracts for any “name” players while he’s here. . . and a certain “Salaru Cap Hell” on the horizon.
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While I think we were at least a million high on Wilson's contract, I'm glad he's back. Now in saying that, I believe we've now overpaid Wilson and Orlov but slightly underpaid Kuzie. Next year we'll have to deal with Vrana and Bura. The problem is, only Kuzie has lived up to his potential. Yes, Wilson is getting better and better, but how much of that is because he's playing alongside Kuzie and Ovie?? Is he really Clark Mk. II or is he really a potential 20-30 goal scorer on his own right? Now another big question is Orlov going to continue to grow ... in the right direction? While he had a better year last season, he still showed some flashes of inconsistent play. For $5 million a year, we can't have that. And sadly, if he starts to backslide, we better pull the trigger on him fast b/c his no-move clause comes into play during the 19/20 season. And finally, Vrana and Bura. Both of them supposedly have talent to burn and both have shown glimpses of it. But for the past 2 seasons we have also had to sit them b/c they can't play at a consistent, PROFESSIONAL (ie. NHL) level. So there you go; 4 out of 5 of the heart of the next generation of Capital stars (if you leave out Bowey b/c he was supposed to be part of this group) are question-marks but we still pay them to the tune of only leaving the team with one million to spare under the cap. If you're optimistic then that's nothing to worry about and everything will turn out fine, but if you're a realist .........
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GMGM is a better GM?? LOL!!!! I'm sorry DC, but you jumped the shark with that one. McPhee hasn't won squat and BM had to take some of GM's pieces and FINALLY get them over the top with right augmentations. GM is NOT a better general manager.
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GMGM is a better GM?? LOL!!!! I'm sorry DC, but you jumped the shark with that one. McPhee hasn't won squat and BM had to take some of GM's pieces and FINALLY get them over the top with right augmentations. GM is NOT a better general manager.
In 4 years BMac has established himself as one of the best GMs in the league. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the GMs listed by DC. In his 4 years the Caps have the most regulation wins and one Stanley Cup ans would have had two if Holtby had played in 2017 like he did this year.
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In 4 years BMac has established himself as one of the best GMs in the league. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the GMs listed by DC. In his 4 years the Caps have the most regulation wins and one Stanley Cup ans would have had two if Holtby had played in 2017 like he did this year.
I dont always agree with decisions by our GMs past and present but we did win a cup with GMBM. I have no problem with any of the players he has signed. I have some issues with the amount and length of some contracts. As far as trades go I think the only made one bad trade, that being the deal for Shattenkirk. On the fence with the MoJo trade. No problems trading him but I thought we could have gotten more.
The best moves I think GMBM made was the ones he didnt make. Letting guys like Shattenkirk, Alzner, Winnick and Williams go via free agency were all good decisions. Still dont know about letting Beagle go. To be honest, take away faceoff % and Beagle actually had a terrible year. We will miss his work ethic though.
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In 4 years BMac has established himself as one of the best GMs in the league. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the GMs listed by DC. In his 4 years the Caps have the most regulation wins and one Stanley Cup ans would have had two if Holtby had played in 2017 like he did this year.
Sure, he’s entertaining. Agents love him for their new yachts and the little work they have to do get a player signed by the Caps. But GMs aren’t charities for agents or entertainers, they’re businessman who are at war with agents and the salary cap among other things.
But the bottom line his, GMGMs players won a Cup in a season that was deamed a throw-awayvyear because cap and rooster mess GMBetaMale got us in. A mess that’s gonna get worse year after year due to the entertaining and poor-negotiating skills of GMBetaMale and Monumental.
And we may have had two Cupd if GMBetaMale & Patrick didn’t get hoodwinked into trading Shattenkra while a pond-league team hoping the goalie bails them out. Besides most fans will always blame the goalie first
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GMGM is a better GM?? LOL!!!! I'm sorry DC, but you jumped the shark with that one. McPhee hasn't won squat and BM had to take some of GM's pieces and FINALLY get them over the top with right augmentations. GM is NOT a better general manager.
Absolutely, and I said that all last year and year before.
Without the helicoptering of Ted, Dickless, and the Monumental Board, he took a team of throw aways to record setting season a Cup final to play a team composed of 13 of his draft picks.
But to this conversation, no way GMGM would overpay all these contracts like GMBetaMale did, (unless ordered to by Monumental Entertianment) as GMGM is by far a better negotiator and does not bend over to agents.
But hey, most fans are still on the Cup high, but in a couple years when the players he signed are loafing around in the regular season, and post season if there is one, abecause they’re making bank for years to come, the cap is in such a place we cant resign Hotly even if we over pay him, which is provided he will stay after our D only gets worse and worse, . . just the zealots will say “we won a Cuo, once, thats ALL that matters”, and others will say things like “Last Post I’m Done” because it will be a disaster
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DC you can bad mouth BMac all you want but the bottom line is that he is a winner. He won a Stanley Cup as a player and now as a GM. He knows what it takes to be a winner and I am happy he is the Caps GM, he is not afraid to make tough decisions.
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DC gonna be pissed off about winning that Cup, one way or another!!! :rofl: :rofl: Fight the good fight brother!! :raspberry:
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Caps sign Wilson, six years 31 million. That is about what people were speculating the contract would be between 4.5 and 5.5 million per year. I think it is a good deal for both sides, Wilson gets long term security and Caps get a reasonabl cap hit although some people may think it is a little high.
That pretty much takes care of business that needed to be done in the off season. Can’t wait for start of training camp.
Reading more, the contract is for 31.02 million with an average of 5.17 per year.
I'm amped they re-signed Wilson! I cannot wait for the season to start.
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DC you can bad mouth BMac all you want but the bottom line is that he is a winner. He won a Stanley Cup as a player and now as a GM. He knows what it takes to be a winner and I am happy he is the Caps GM, he is not afraid to make tough decisions.
You praise and hero-worship all you want, using the layman Aristotelian logic of "he won and Cup therefore he's a winner and he's great", but know that is short sighted and devoid of analysis, proper data collection, and basic blind faith.
I will be continue to be objective and pragmatic looking (in the case of GMBetaMAles role), at how we won, who performed over or under expectations, the quality and cap situation of the roster and cap situation (among other things).
One of the simple conclusions is for a team to win in what was called a "rebuild/throw away year", (remember no one had high expectations), with a cap pushing the brink due to over paying Russia and the other players, trades decimating the draft and moving good players to cut cap space and only getting 3rd rounders for them,. . .is not only did the GM had little to do with the win, but the win was IN SPITE of the GM and the front office.
Its not hating, its being objective and unbiased.
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DC gonna be pissed off about winning that Cup, one way or another!!! :rofl: :rofl: Fight the good fight brother!! :raspberry:
Hey not pissed off about winning the Cup, Im just irked that all of the sudden people think the all the craptostic performances and valid criticisms this year and in the past years, are now forgiven, forgotten. ignored, disowned, and even criticized because of the last 7 games!
Bottom line is we won a Cup. One. One in a 10 years of each year expecting to win or make the playoffs to "have a chance". Thats 10% success, with is only better that 0, certainly not great, nor good enough.
On top which, it is illogical if not fast out delusional to think this group and front office will not only keep the level of the last games, but not let rest accomplishment and do the same for the next 10 years, saying "well we have A cup, and have a chance at another". . .
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Hey not pissed off about winning the Cup, Im just irked that all of the sudden people think the all the craptostic performances and valid criticisms this year and in the past years, are now forgiven, forgotten. ignored, disowned, and even criticized because of the last 7 games!
The only fly in that ointment is, the craptastic performers who we love to bitch about, finally did what they were supposed to and won the Cup.. Everyone knew Holtby would need to be in Vezina form, he was.. Everyone knew we would need Kuznetsov to have an exceptional playoffs, he did.. Everyone knew Ovie would need to be at the top of his game, he was.. Everyone knew we'd need secondary scoring, we got it.. There were no "surprises", other then the team did what we've expected them to do the last 2-3 years.. They found the playoff gear we all swore they didn't have!!
Predicting future doom and gloom is fine. But you simply can't deny GMBM has put together a Cup winning team on his 4th try.. Was it dumb luck? Will it cost us in the future? Can we repeat? All good questions!! But you are right about one thing.. Currently, I just don't give a shit!! We got 1 and they can't take it back!! :P
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The only fly in that ointment is, the craptastic performers who we love to bitch about, finally did what they were supposed to and won the Cup.. Everyone knew Holtby would need to be in Vezina form, he was.. Everyone knew we would need Kuznetsov to have an exceptional playoffs, he did.. Everyone knew Ovie would need to be at the top of his game, he was.. Everyone knew we'd need secondary scoring, we got it.. There were no "surprises", other then the team did what we've expected them to do the last 2-3 years.. They found the playoff gear we all swore they didn't have!!
Predicting future doom and gloom is fine. But you simply can't deny GMBM has put together a Cup winning team on his 4th try.. Was it dumb luck? Will it cost us in the future? Can we repeat? All good questions!! But you are right about one thing.. Currently, I just don't give a shit!! We got 1 and they can't take it back!! :P
they didn’t find a gear, they found a four stage nitros system.
The long list of uncharacteristic performances, “finally”s, surprises, particularly late in the playoffs, can and don not equate to credit for a GM in a year that was a rebuild year.. Morever it’s a long shot bet, for this scenario to result in long term, sustainable performance.
Yeah no one can our one, single Cup, away. I’m cautioning about our second, Cuo.
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they didn’t find a gear, they found a four stage nitros system.
The long list of uncharacteristic performances, “finally”s, surprises, particularly late in the playoffs, can and don not equate to credit for a GM in a year that was a rebuild year. Moreover it’s a long shot bet, for this scenario to result in long term, sustainable performance.
That was GMBetaMale, that was just coach’s and leaders pushing a team play over their ablitys. Not the mastermind scouting and putting the best combination of the right players for the price, and routinely playing at high levels, with the ability to play higher without doing a 180.
Yeah no one can our one, single Cup, away. I’m cautioning about our second, Cuo.
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Hey not pissed off about winning the Cup, Im just irked that all of the sudden people think the all the craptostic performances and valid criticisms this year and in the past years, are now forgiven, forgotten. ignored, disowned, and even criticized because of the last 7 games!
Bottom line is we won a Cup. One. One in a 10 years of each year expecting to win or make the playoffs to "have a chance". Thats 10% success, with is only better that 0, certainly not great, nor good enough.
On top which, it is illogical if not fast out delusional to think this group and front office will not only keep the level of the last games, but not let rest accomplishment and do the same for the next 10 years, saying "well we have A cup, and have a chance at another". . .
Sorry DC but I think your dislike for GMBM is getting a but ridiculous. The goal of any team is to be competitive with the ultimate goal winning the Cup. 2 presidents cups and a Stanley Cup the last 3 seasons. What else does he have to do so you will give him some credit.
Most of his decisions have worked out so far whether you like it or not. He may not be building a team that you prefer but he has built a winning franchise. Give him some credit.
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Sorry DC but I think your dislike for GMBM is getting a but ridiculous. The goal of any team is to be competitive with the ultimate goal winning the Cup. 2 presidents cups and a Stanley Cup the last 3 seasons. What else does he have to do so you will give him some credit.
Most of his decisions have worked out so far whether you like it or not. He may not be building a team that you prefer but he has built a winning franchise. Give him some credit.
The goal of great organizations and champions is domination and dynasties, not just one year, and not good being enough, not having a chance and hoping for the stars to align and catch lightning in a bottle.
Give him credit for what? Being in the box while a team made up primarily by, including the core, was won by the GM in the next box over? For doing the old video game trick of long salaries so it’s less per year with the hopes that they’ll be retirements or the league will all but drop the salary cap?
All signs for a future of a cap hell with underperomabing players with unreadable contacts are there, and only one Cup doesn’t make up for, or excuse that.
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Hey not pissed off about winning the Cup, Im just irked that all of the sudden people think the all the craptostic performances and valid criticisms this year and in the past years, are now forgiven, forgotten. ignored, disowned, and even criticized because of the last 7 games!
Bottom line is we won a Cup. One. One in a 10 years of each year expecting to win or make the playoffs to "have a chance". Thats 10% success, with is only better that 0, certainly not great, nor good enough.
On top which, it is illogical if not fast out delusional to think this group and front office will not only keep the level of the last games, but not let rest accomplishment and do the same for the next 10 years, saying "well we have A cup, and have a chance at another". . .
What you fail to point out is most of that was under McPhail. He goes bye bye and within a few years we raise the cup.
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What you fail to point out is most of that was under McPhail. He goes bye bye and within a few years we raise the cup.
No I didn’t fail. I’ve made that case plenty of times
Which is why you’re resorting to atttemt to use flawed and laymen Aristotelian logic in an equally flawed and laymen attempt to trip me up.
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No I didn’t fail. I’ve made that case plenty of times
Which is why you’re resorting to atttemt to use flawed and laymen Aristotelian logic in an equally flawed and laymen attempt to trip me up.
And your case is WRONG. The simple fact is that you LOATHE this team's management because they don't do things YOUR way and no amount of winning will ever change that. Your precious McPhail didn't win squat even with 16 years of opportunity. His drafting was absolutely terrible for his first decade here. You give him a pass and blame all on Ted and Patrick. Ted and Patrick deserve some blame too, but so does McJoke. If you've shown anything after winning a cup, it's that it's YOU who doesn't care about winning. All you care about is having it do e the way YOU want it done even if that means never winning..... I can see why you love McPhee so much.
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And your case is WRONG. The simple fact is that you LOATHE this team's management because they don't do things YOUR way and no amount of winning will ever change that. Your precious McPhail didn't win squat even with 16 years of opportunity. His drafting was absolutely terrible for his first decade here. You give him a pass and blame all on Ted and Patrick. Ted and Patrick deserve some blame too, but so does McJoke. If you've shown anything after winning a cup, it's that it's YOU who doesn't care about winning. All you care about is having it do e the way YOU want it done even if that means never winning..... I can see why you love McPhee so much.
No. You’re emotions are so out of control you’ve lost objectivity, so you do not see the the bigger picture of transpired is transpiring, and the likely trajectory where are on.
But hey,if don’t agree with me that the goal needs to be dynasty and domination, and as long as you can die happy going into the cremator or the ground wearing a 2018 Championship shirt it does matter that you don’t have one with over with four or five Champiobships, . . . than that’s pretty beta and lazy
Worse yet, if you look at the current team and see a dynasty with no cap issues not just the same ol thing Ted and/or Dickess have done since 1982. The majority of signs point to just the same ol’, but they can now say Ted has .05% of winning the Cup in seasons as the Caps owner, and Patrick has an amazing .03% Cup perstage be has been with the organization
Those two have way more input and control of rosters than the GM does.
So you mean to tell me 7 games erases all of that and we should just be happy to join Calgary, the Hurricanes, and the Ducks and the other one and done Cup winners as long as we just get one?
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The goal of great organizations and champions is domination and dynasties, not just one year, and not good being enough, not having a chance and hoping for the stars to align and catch lightning in a bottle.
Give him credit for what? Being in the box while a team made up primarily by, including the core, was won by the GM in the next box over? For doing the old video game trick of long salaries so it’s less per year with the hopes that they’ll be retirements or the league will all but drop the salary cap?
All signs for a future of a cap hell with underperomabing players with unreadable contacts are there, and only one Cup doesn’t make up for, or excuse that.
Well you need to win the first Cup before you can win others. Winning multiple cups is very difficult in today's NHL so I would be surprised if we don't win another one right away.
It there even any such thing thing as a dynasty anymore. With the salary cap and parody of the league it is tough to build a dynasty.
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Yea, that dynasty requirement/dream starts to fade a bit when you turn 50 and the team you first rooted for at age 7 still hasn't won a SCF "game", much less a Cup.. :wackysmile: Be happy with the Cup!! There'll be plenty of time to bitch when the season starts!! At the moment, we ARE the champions!! :P
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Well you need to win the first Cup before you can win others. Winning multiple cups is very difficult in today's NHL so I would be surprised if we don't win another one right away.
It there even any such thing thing as a dynasty anymore. With the salary cap and parody of the league it is tough to build a dynasty.
i know it’s difficult but, so what? Three teams have won multiple cups in the last what 10 years? Each are still legitimate threats every year there in the playoffs.
On this issue, I’m saying the philosophy of organizations that are comsistant Cup winners and persistent threats and obstickes in the playoffs is one of is that their primary if not only goal, and if a retooling is needing, getting back there immeaditly. . . for these teams “have a chance”, or “we did it once so that’s all we need and we’re good as is”, is simply intolerable.
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I hope the Caps repeat JUST to upset DC lol.
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i know it’s difficult but, so what? Three teams have won multiple cups in the last what 10 years? Each are still legitimate threats every year there in the playoffs.
On this issue, I’m saying the philosophy of organizations that are comsistant Cup winners and persistent threats and obstickes in the playoffs is one of is that their primary if not only goal, and if a retooling is needing, getting back there immeaditly. . . for these teams “have a chance”, or “we did it once so that’s all we need and we’re good as is”, is simply intolerable.
No offense but the Caps have been a threat for a few years now. 2 president cups and a cup in 3 seasons is very impressive. If the Caps could had gotten by the Pens in those 2 seasons there is a good possibility we could have had have had 3 consecutive cups.
I myself prefer a different style team but they are having success with what they are doing. And in the long run that's what I care about. There is still a handful of players I'd rather not be on this team.
You keep thinking that a team full of guys like Beagle or your tough guys Olesiak and Reeves is going to win. You need role players like that but you barent going to win with a team full if them.
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No offense but the Caps have been a threat for a few years now. 2 president cups and a cup in 3 seasons is very impressive. If the Caps could had gotten by the Pens in those 2 seasons there is a good possibility we could have had have had 3 consecutive cups.
I myself prefer a different style team but they are having success with what they are doing. And in the long run that's what I care about. There is still a handful of players I'd rather not be on this team.
You keep thinking that a team full of guys like Beagle or your tough guys Olesiak and Reeves is going to win. You need role players like that but you barent going to win with a team full if them.
ehhhhh I wouldn’t call any team not getting out of the second round, particularly when the issues identified was attitude, defense, and refusal to adapt/modify a threat, at least a significant one.
As most of us said at the time, caught the Hens, Bolts, and maybe even CBJ flat-footed several games as this is what they where expecting.
Also for the record, The Captian, Probert, Hatcher, Hunter. Shannahan, Simon, D-Mack , Draper, HalpernMadden, Neidimyer, Vladdy, C Lemieux (yuck), where all way Beagle and/or Okesniak types: attitude, hustle, IQ, and/or intimidatinion and physical play that had an effect on everyone on the ice. That’s the type of players that will beat the euro/no-hit league style that just want their stats, highlights and paychecks.
It was shown with our numerous playoff losses and with our Cup win when the majority of The Caps made a complete 180 and effectively managed to switch their mentality.
To summerize my recent posts, this turnaround, particularly in the last few games is such a large jump that (if tracked on a graph over 10yrs), would be an annonomy if not an outlyer. In these cases data knowledge gives an extermly high probablity of that dropping, and a good chance of it being a drastic amount for several factors.
The typical/best way to sustain jumps like this to objectively see what issues prevented the gradual rise, and replace them with will keep out at our near the point of the anomaly.
The other less desirable way is to cash in and hope it happens again.
Put like this, the first way is clearly more effective, as can be seen by viewing any successful business
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ehhhhh I wouldn’t call any team not getting out of the second round, particularly when the issues identified was attitude, defense, and refusal to adapt/modify a threat, at least a significant one.
As most of us said at the time, caught the Hens, Bolts, and maybe even CBJ flat-footed several games as this is what they where expecting.
Also for the record, The Captian, Probert, Hatcher, Hunter. Shannahan, Simon, D-Mack , Draper, HalpernMadden, Neidimyer, Vladdy, C Lemieux (yuck), where all way Beagle and/or Okesniak types: attitude, hustle, IQ, and/or intimidatinion and physical play that had an effect on everyone on the ice. That’s the type of players that will beat the euro/no-hit league style that just want their stats, highlights and paychecks.
It was shown with our numerous playoff losses and with our Cup win when the majority of The Caps made a complete 180 and effectively managed to switch their mentality.
To summerize my recent posts, this turnaround, particularly in the last few games is such a large jump that (if tracked on a graph over 10yrs), would be an annonomy if not an outlyer. In these cases data knowledge gives an extermly high probablity of that dropping, and a good chance of it being a drastic amount for several factors.
The typical/best way to sustain jumps like this to objectively see what issues prevented the gradual rise, and replace them with will keep out at our near the point of the anomaly.
The other less desirable way is to cash in and hope it happens again.
Put like this, the first way is clearly more effective, as can be seen by viewing any successful business
And if you put those guys together in a lineup they would win nothing. You need role players like this but you arent going to win with a roster full of them. Some of those guys you mentioned werent even good 2 way players. I noticed some of the players that you mentioned were players that sometimes crossed the line. I dont mean a borderline hit. I mean some premeditated dirty stuff. Got to be honest I dont like most of those players that you mentioned.
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And if you put those guys together in a lineup they would win nothing. You need role players like this but you arent going to win with a roster full of them. Some of those guys you mentioned werent even good 2 way players. I noticed some of the players that you mentioned were players that sometimes crossed the line. I dont mean a borderline hit. I mean some premeditated dirty stuff. Got to be honest I dont like most of those players that you mentioned.
i’m not talking about playing “today’s gane” i’m talking about beating it. Even if includes deliberately and systematically, “crossing the line” on occasion.
Just look at last year. VGK was almost entirely just a bunch of “3rd-4th line role playing Beagle like trash” and made to the Cup finals,. The Caos played one of their best gamer with a bunch of AHLwrs working their ass off and playing right. Both of which, while not to the level I’m suggesting, are along the lines i’m suggesting.
Any trend is made up of ebs and flows, where the ebs seem permanent. The flow of is slowly starting, i’m saying beat everyone else to it.
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i’m not talking about playing “today’s gane” i’m talking about beating it. Even if includes deliberately and systematically, “crossing the line” on occasion.
Just look at last year. VGK was almost entirely just a bunch of “3rd-4th line role playing Beagle like trash” and made to the Cup finals,. The Caos played one of their best gamer with a bunch of AHLwrs working their ass off and playing right. Both of which, while not to the level I’m suggesting, are along the lines i’m suggesting.
Any trend is made up of ebs and flows, where the ebs seem permanent. The flow of is slowly starting, i’m saying beat everyone else to it.
Sorry but I dont believe in crossing the line. There should be some respect towards other players. Deliberately trying injure someone is unacceptable. Some of these guys have done that.
Vegas wasnt just role players. They have some offensive talent on the team. They are actually a speed team. They aren't Beagle like players. Was Vegas that good or did they ride a hot goalie? The Caps made them look pretty ordinary in the finals. We beat them in 5 games. Could have possibly swept them if not for the missed crosscheck by Reeves on a goal he scored to tie game 1. Still have no clue how they missed that.
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Sorry but I dont believe in crossing the line. There should be some respect towards other players. Deliberately trying injure someone is unacceptable. Some of these guys have done that.
Vegas wasnt just role players. They have some offensive talent on the team. They are actually a speed team. They aren't Beagle like players. Was Vegas that good or did they ride a hot goalie? The Caps made them look pretty ordinary in the finals. We beat them in 5 games. Could have possibly swept them if not for the missed crosscheck by Reeves on a goal he scored to tie game 1. Still have no clue how they missed that.
While no one wants see someone (not on the Hens, or named otherwise named Lemieux) get hurt , . . .its can be an effective tactic that can cause a ripple effect including forces changes in line up, system, depth chart, call ups (which could involve waivers), that can go down to their AHL teams. . .
It is can be viewed as cruel etc. but applied in a formula it makes sense. Unless your playing a team with Darren McCarty on it (ask CLemiieux).
But, Vegas was full of Beagle like players. Karlsson, R Smith, Tuch, England, McNab 3rd or 4th liners/3rd pairings that no one cared about because they dont toe-drag, sell jerseys, and where the 3rd line trash of teams. I won't say they looked ordinary in the playoffs, unless ordinary is the worst they've ever played. I would most of that loss on Gallant (I should of added him above, damn he was a hell of player). Trotz clearly saw what LA did, and came up with a plan to slow them down. Gallent responded by continuing to "ride the white horse" and made minimal if no adjustments to what they've done all year, (probably betting the Caps would self destruct on their own)
On the other topic, by beagle like, I meant, smart, excelling in defense, hard working, intense, and versatile players that do more than sell tickets, nor care about it You seem to forget that (at least pre-injury) Beagle was one of the fastest skaters (drill wise), and one of the strongest on the team (verified by a member of the training staff). He also put up plenty of points when he was with Wilson and Winnik and could contribute offensively as needed (like the great pass for DSPs in the last game). He had to do A LOT of the grunt work for this to team to have success which hurt his stats and eyeball-tests
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Advocating for injuries is just pitiful.
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NHL isn't letting anyone cheap shot/intimidate the other teams anymore.. Even Wilson, who's a clean hard hitter, gets singled out.. You put a team full of that on the ice and the NHL will have a field day ruining the "system to beat the system".. Anyway, I thought what got all this started was debating what a champ/chump McPhee was? :wackysmile: The "BPA extraordinaire" GM.. :rofl:
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Advocating for injuries is just pitiful.
just a tactic, and formula to use against a team, organization and opponentt.
It’s just business. A simple formula, no more, no less
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NHL isn't letting anyone cheap shot/intimidate the other teams anymore.. Even Wilson, who's a clean hard hitter, gets singled out.. You put a team full of that on the ice and the NHL will have a field day ruining the "system to beat the system".. Anyway, I thought what got all this started was debating what a champ/chump McPhee was? :wackysmile: The "BPA extraordinaire" GM.. :rofl:
Fuck the NHL. If someone gets suspended, have the plan in place to bring the next guy up.
But hey, outta Monumentalscontrol, he set records, won a Confrence, and made the Finals in one year and faced about 15 of his picks and/or signings
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While no one wants see someone (not on the Hens, or named otherwise named Lemieux) get hurt , . . .its can be an effective tactic that can cause a ripple effect including forces changes in line up, system, depth chart, call ups (which could involve waivers), that can go down to their AHL teams. . .
It is can be viewed as cruel etc. but applied in a formula it makes sense. Unless your playing a team with Darren McCarty on it (ask CLemiieux).
But, Vegas was full of Beagle like players. Karlsson, R Smith, Tuch, England, McNab 3rd or 4th liners/3rd pairings that no one cared about because they dont toe-drag, sell jerseys, and where the 3rd line trash of teams. I won't say they looked ordinary in the playoffs, unless ordinary is the worst they've ever played. I would most of that loss on Gallant (I should of added him above, damn he was a hell of player). Trotz clearly saw what LA did, and came up with a plan to slow them down. Gallent responded by continuing to "ride the white horse" and made minimal if no adjustments to what they've done all year, (probably betting the Caps would self destruct on their own)
On the other topic, by beagle like, I meant, smart, excelling in defense, hard working, intense, and versatile players that do more than sell tickets, nor care about it You seem to forget that (at least pre-injury) Beagle was one of the fastest skaters (drill wise), and one of the strongest on the team (verified by a member of the training staff). He also put up plenty of points when he was with Wilson and Winnik and could contribute offensively as needed (like the great pass for DSPs in the last game). He had to do A LOT of the grunt work for this to team to have success which hurt his stats and eyeball-tests
Beagle is smart and a hard worker. If he wasnt he wouldn't be in the NHL. He still is nothing more than a 4th liner. He isn't as good defensively as you might think.
Why dont you include Stephenson when you talk about hard working guys. He is so good defensively, especially for a player his age. He also has a good hockey IQ. And he is a very good skater. Might be the fastest skater on the team. I'd like to see him more aggressive in the offensive zone though. He is already a better player than Beagle. The only thing Beagle does better is faceoffs
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Beagle is smart and a hard worker. If he wasnt he wouldn't be in the NHL. He still is nothing more than a 4th liner. He isn't as good defensively as you might think.
Why dont you include Stephenson when you talk about hard working guys. He is so good defensively, especially for a player his age. He also has a good hockey IQ. And he is a very good skater. Might be the fastest skater on the team. I'd like to see him more aggressive in the offensive zone though. He is already a better player than Beagle. The only thing Beagle does better is faceoffs
Stevenson is great, but he ain’t Beagle good yet.
I still don’t see why you hate Beagle so much. Did you hate Draper and Madden too? Because the about the only difference is they didn’t have have to do all the work on a offense first team with two other centers that can’t play D
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Stevenson is great, but he ain’t Beagle good yet.
I still don’t see why you hate Beagle so much. Did you hate Draper and Madden too? Because the about the only difference is they didn’t have have to do all the work on a offense first team with two other centers that can’t play D
Sorry but Stephenson is already a better all round player than Beagle is.
I dont hate Beagle. I actually like him. I just dont think he is as good as you make him out to be. He wasnt the savior of our team He was a role player. Pk and faceoff specialist. He is oprobably the furthest thing away from a 2way player there is. Most of his time is spent in the defensive zone. No I didnt hate Draper or Madden either. Similar type players. They were good role players. Better 2way players than Beagle. Better defensively too.
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Stevenson is great, but he ain’t Beagle good yet.
I still don’t see why you hate Beagle so much. Did you hate Draper and Madden too? Because the about the only difference is they didn’t have have to do all the work on a offense first team with two other centers that can’t play D
Which centers are you saying can't play d? They are all defensively responsible although Kuzy is below average defensively. I would say Eller is at least average defensively. And Backstrom is solid. I would rank Beagle 2nd behind Backstrom.
Beagle might not have even been our 2nd best defensive center last season. He had his struggles in the defensive zone and on the pk last season.
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Which centers are you saying can't play d? They are all defensively responsible although Kuzy is below average defensively. I would say Eller is at least average defensively. And Backstrom is solid. I would rank Beagle 2nd behind Backstrom.
Beagle might not have even been our 2nd best defensive center last season. He had his struggles in the defensive zone and on the pk last season.
Both Kurt and Eller. Eller is effective when he feels like it, but more than likely neither of those two will ever be mentioned in Sellers if not assigned as s shutout center if other are available.
But yea Backstom is execlllent. Between he a Beagle, i was who was 1 & 2 depended on situation. and matchup
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I would only comment that, with the Caps having a one goal lead in the clinching Stanley Cup final game, the forwards on the ice during the last 45 seconds of the game were Eller, Kuznetsov, and Wilson. The defensemen were Niskanen and Orpik.
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I would only comment that, with the Caps having a one goal lead in the clinching Stanley Cup final game, the forwards on the ice during the last 45 seconds of the game were Eller, Kuznetsov, and Wilson. The defensemen were Niskanen and Orpik.
and we were lucky they put Wilson out there to make up for those two.
To apply that being on the ice with a one goal lead when up 3-1 in a series, when a goalie would be pulled, with a better unit ready to , equals them being even average defensive players is just grasping at straws to support naive heroworship
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Actually, Trotz often times matched Kuzy against the top center of the opposing team. For example, against Edmonton Kuzy was consistently up against McDavid and more than held his own. Kuzy is much better defensively than people give him credit for.
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and we were lucky they put Wilson out there to make up for those two.
To apply that being on the ice with a one goal lead when up 3-1 in a series, when a goalie would be pulled, with a better unit ready to , equals them being even average defensive players is just grasping at straws to support naive heroworship
Maybe those players are better defensively than you think. Trotz did use Eller quite often in defensive situations. Surprised Kuzy would be out there though. I think you evaluation on players might be a bit inaccurate because you are so bias towards a certain type of player.
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Actually, Trotz often times matched Kuzy against the top center of the opposing team. For example, against Edmonton Kuzy was consistently up against McDavid and more than held his own. Kuzy is much better defensively than people give him credit for.
well he can’t play Beagle all game now can he?
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Maaco - Beagle was obviously my favorite player for years - mainly due to his desire and work ethic. Every team needs the guy that made the most of his skill set by sheer hard work and desire and Jay was that guy. At one point I hoped that he would transition to a consistent 20+ goal scorer, but he just didn't quite have the hands. He more than made up for it in other ways.
I am really hoping Stephenson is the next Beagle, and that he can be that 20+ scorer. I think he has the hands and the skill set, and as he matures his confidence should increase. If he has Beagle's work ethic, he really could be great.
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Maybe those players are better defensively than you think. Trotz did use Eller quite often in defensive situations. Surprised Kuzy would be out there though. I think you evaluation on players might be a bit inaccurate because you are so bias towards a certain type of player.
it was by necessity and role, not that Eller and Kuzy are better on D than Bergeron and Kopitar like the Church of Ted likes to imply.
You agreed with, and was just as hard on criticisiing there D ability, effort, work ethic and backbone.
Just showing up and not sucking for the last seven games does not imstantly make them elite and not liabilities
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it was by necessity and role, not that Eller and Kuzy are better on D than Bergeron and Kopitar like the Church of Ted likes to imply.
You agreed with, and was just as hard on criticisiing there D ability, effort, work ethic and backbone.
Just showing up and not sucking for the last seven games does not imstantly make them above
Hey I'm not a fan of their defensive play. I like Kuzys offensive skillset. And Eller, I'm not a big fan. He isnt terrible defensively. Just not a fan.
Comparing those guys to Bergeron and Kopitar isnt really fair though. They are the 2 best 2way forwards in the league. Those are the type of players I like. Backstrom is the closest we have to those guys.
You guys may think I'm crazy but I rank Kopitar and Bergeron as the top 2 centers in the league.
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well he can’t play Beagle all game now can he?
No he can’t play Beagle all game but if he is our top defender wouldn’t you play him against the other teams top center. Why did Trotz play Kuzy sgainst Mc David if Kuzy is such a poor defensive center?
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No he can’t play Beagle all game but if he is our top defender wouldn’t you play him against the other teams top center. Why did Trotz play Kuzy sgainst Mc David if Kuzy is such a poor defensive center?
Because poor hockey IQ limits your options to matchup against opponents, situational changes, and a sophisticated gane.
With those two, going total pond hockey and counting on both of them fucking up more than they’ll score makes it a wash
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Hey I'm not a fan of their defensive play. I like Kuzys offensive skillset. And Eller, I'm not a big fan. He isnt terrible defensively. Just not a fan.
Comparing those guys to Bergeron and Kopitar isnt really fair though. They are the 2 best 2way forwards in the league. Those are the type of players I like. Backstrom is the closest we have to those guys.
You guys may think I'm crazy but I rank Kopitar and Bergeron as the top 2 centers in the league.
I agree completely those are the top centers in the league.
But The Church of Ted will imply that Suzy and Eller are better than both of them because they where on the ice the same time McDavid was and in the last minutes of a playoff game
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I agree completely those are the top centers in the league.
But The Church of Ted will imply that Suzy and Eller are better than both of them because they where on the ice the same time McDavid was and in the last minutes of a playoff game
Kuzy is a very skilled player. Definitely one of the most skilled in the league. I like him but he does gave flaws in his game. I'm not a big fan of Eller
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I agree completely those are the top centers in the league.
But The Church of Ted will imply that Suzy and Eller are better than both of them..
Hey, watch it now! One of those pics was from St. McPhee!! (Ō_ƆŎ) :rofl:
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I agree completely those are the top centers in the league.
But The Church of Ted will imply that Suzy and Eller are better than both of them because they where on the ice the same time McDavid was and in the last minutes of a playoff game
As usual, you are being hyperbolic. NO ONE is comparing Caps centers with centers from other teams. The point was that, among the players from which the coaches had to choose, Kuzy, Eller, and Wilson were the forwards on the ice at the end of game 5. That says something. Traditionally 2 centers on the ice during the last shifts of a close game so that if one center is thrown out of the FO circle the other one can step in. To me, the fact that Wilson is the 3rd forward in that situation is perhaps more significant than the other two.
Beagle probably wouldn't play much against a McDavid line not only because Beagle couldn't keep up with McDavid (which he couldn't), but the Caps' 4th line couldn't have kept up with McDavid's line as a whole. Sometimes the matchup is too much to overcome, talent wise. Kuzy would be much better keeping up with McDavid, though his defensive instincts aren't as good.
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Coaching staff filled out.
A former Blue Jackets head coach and a college/minor league coach, who has ties to Rierden and will supposedly coach the defensemen (I'll bet with Rierden watching his every move.)
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As usual, you are being hyperbolic. NO ONE is comparing Caps centers with centers from other teams. The point was that, among the players from which the coaches had to choose, Kuzy, Eller, and Wilson were the forwards on the ice at the end of game 5. That says something. Traditionally 2 centers on the ice during the last shifts of a close game so that if one center is thrown out of the FO circle the other one can step in. To me, the fact that Wilson is the 3rd forward in that situation is perhaps more significant than the other two.
Beagle probably wouldn't play much against a McDavid line not only because Beagle couldn't keep up with McDavid (which he couldn't), but the Caps' 4th line couldn't have kept up with McDavid's line as a whole. Sometimes the matchup is too much to overcome, talent wise. Kuzy would be much better keeping up with McDavid, though his defensive instincts aren't as good.
is it really hyperbole? You and the members of the “I can die happy now the Caps won one lousy Cup”, have lost all objectivity and realism. Then when called on it, try to flip it around on those for being “haters”.
Sorry to ruin your high, but the 2018 Caps are NOT the greatest fuckin team ever, not perfect, not flawless, not dynasty material. That’s just reality, and it’s not good enough
BTW, i already know every you said about matchups, and it’s just rec-league
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is it really hyperbole? You and the members of the “I can die happy now the Caps won one lousy Cup”, have lost all objectivity and realism. Then when called on it, try to flip it around on those for being “haters”.
Sorry to ruin your high, but the 2018 Caps are NOT the greatest fuckin team ever, not perfect, not flawless, not dynasty material. That’s just reality, and it’s not good enough
BTW, i already know every you said about matchups, and it’s just rec-league
I dont think anyone said that this team is the greatest or will be a dynasty. With the salary cap dynasties are going to be tough. The Hawks are the closet thing to a dynasty the league has had in a while. Look at them now. The Pens might be considered a dynasty. They have been riding Malkin and Crosby for over a decade.
The Caps have had a strong team for awhile now. We were lucky to get a cup before we ended up like the Blackhawks.
The last couple seasons when we won the 2 presidents cups, we all knew we had a very good team. I always felt we were missing a couple of pieces . I thought we needed more grit and heart. We didnt add any top offensive talent. We added guys like DSP and Chaisson and brought up some youngsters like Stephenson. And we gave Wilson more ice time and responsibilities. These were moves in the right direction.
Speaking of Chaisson. Wondering why we havent made him an offer. I'm sure we can get him on a low contract. He was one of the few guys we had that would cause havoc in front of the net. Am I the only one that thinks he has any value.
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I dont think anyone said that this team is the greatest or will be a dynasty. With the salary cap dynasties are going to be tough. The Hawks are the closet thing to a dynasty the league has had in a while. Look at them now. The Pens might be considered a dynasty. They have been riding Malkin and Crosby for over a decade.
The Caps have had a strong team for awhile now. We were lucky to get a cup before we ended up like the Blackhawks.
The last couple seasons when we won the 2 presidents cups, we all knew we had a very good team. I always felt we were missing a couple of pieces . I thought we needed more grit and heart. We didnt add any top offensive talent. We added guys like DSP and Chaisson and brought up some youngsters like Stephenson. And we gave Wilson more ice time and responsibilities. These were moves in the right direction.
Speaking of Chaisson. Wondering why we havent made him an offer. I'm sure we can get him on a low contract. He was one of the few guys we had that would cause havoc in front of the net. Am I the only one that thinks he has any value.
agree about Chaisson, but I doubt he’ll get resigned. A lot of fans don’t like him because he had a name that’s easy to pronounce, and doesn’t toe-drag, pass to the other team, and loaf around .
The Hawks, like the Wings, may not make it back this year. . .but Bowman and Weintz (so?) are not happy about it and won’t put up with it after this year. Same with Illitch Jr and Holland in Detroit. “Having a chance” and glad that fans can “die happy” with just one Cup is not good of enough for them, nor it should it be for us.
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Actually I find it odd that you seem to not like European players. Dont you call them Eurosoft or Eurotrash? Anyway the Wings were one of the first teams to rely heavily on European players. Didnt they have 5 Russians on one of their Stanley cup teams. Most of their top players the past 20 years have been European. We could start naming all of them but it would be a pretty long list.
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DC has simply become a caricature of himself at this point. It was "we'll never win a cup unless" and now that we've won one it's "we still suck because". If I didn't know better I'd call him a troll or the most miserable person alive.
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Actually I find it odd that you seem to not like European players. Dont you call them Eurosoft or Eurotrash? Anyway the Wings were one of the first teams to rely heavily on European players. Didnt they have 5 Russians on one of their Stanley cup teams. Most of their top players the past 20 years have been European. We could start naming all of them but it would be a pretty long list.
I’m referring to the skill first, offense first(if not only(, low IQ, low work ethic, next to no physicality, is intimidated by physicality, wants the league to go 4on 4 with soccer size goals, you know the type i mean. While this type earned its name from a very large segment of those players being Euros, it certainly does not apply to all Euro-borns, and does not exempt applicable non-Euros from being included
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DC has simply become a caricature of himself at this point. It was "we'll never win a cup unless" and now that we've won one it's "we still suck because". If I didn't know better I'd call him a troll or the most miserable person alive.
Well I’m sure someone as emotional and overall dramatic as yourself finds objectivive, pragmatic and logical analysis to be “miserable”, but I assure there no such nonsense here.
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I’m referring to the skill first, offense first(if not only(, low IQ, low work ethic, next to no physicality, is intimidated by physicality, wants the league to go 4on 4 with soccer size goals, you know the type i mean. While this type earned its name from a very large segment of those players being Euros, it certainly does not apply to all Euro-borns, and does not exempt applicable non-Euros from being included
I dont think that is accurate. If you look at the history of European players. Swedish players are known as good team guys and most are solid 2 way players. A lot of them are also feisty and physical. There are a few exceptions but overall Swedish players are usually pretty good all round players.
Finnish players have always been known as feisty players. A lot if Finnish players are strong defensively.
Russia was probably the European country that had more offense only players. But that has changed over the years. Guys like Fedorov changed that. And you can't really say Russian players are soft. Guys like Ovi and Malkin can handle themselves.
The country that has the most soft players and one dimensional offensive players is the US. Kane, Kessel, Gaudreau, Ryan. All soft and offense only.
Canada has its share if Sissy's and offense only players too.
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Well I’m sure someone as emotional and overall dramatic as yourself finds objectivive, pragmatic and logical analysis to be “miserable”, but I assure there no such nonsense here.
I’m the dramatic one? LOL ok. You’re the one who’s NEVER happy with anything this team does. Winning a cup? Pfffffft, were still a laughing stock!!! No team is perfect and in today’s world no team will be for long even if they manage to have a couple of great years. As great as the Hawks have been they missed the playoffs. The Kings aren’t why they were. It doesn’t matter if the Caps repeat you’ll still be unhappy because the team isn’t what YOU want. That’s just a fact.
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Reread you’re post, and your “I’m Done” thread, and evaluate your complete 180 since you the team you gave up squeeked out one, just one, Cup. . .
“Happy” shouldn’t last more than a few hours, because there is ALWAYS things to improve on.
So yeah, you’re clearly the dramatic and emotional one, that’s gone so overboard all you’re objectivity has vanishied. When the Caps go back to what I primarily criticize, more so
augmented with their Cup high, you’ll be saying “it was just an illusion, this team will never change, I’m done last post”, now that is what you call a fact.
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I dont think that is accurate. If you look at the history of European players. Swedish players are known as good team guys and most are solid 2 way players. A lot of them are also feisty and physical. There are a few exceptions but overall Swedish players are usually pretty good all round players.
Finnish players have always been known as feisty players. A lot if Finnish players are strong defensively.
Russia was probably the European country that had more offense only players. But that has changed over the years. Guys like Fedorov changed that. And you can't really say Russian players are soft. Guys like Ovi and Malkin can handle themselves.
The country that has the most soft players and one dimensional offensive players is the US. Kane, Kessel, Gaudreau, Ryan. All soft and offense only.
Canada has its share if Sissy's and offense only players too.
Stereotypes are stereotypes because they are enough reasons for them to be.
But, as i said, it’s the style and mentality of a player, not where there born
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First off, the reason we played kuznetsov against mcdavids line is because we wanted to force mcdavid to play in his own zone. You're taking a huge risk just trying to defend the whole game against him with the Beagle line creates a constant sit back and defend which will eventually bite you in the ass. The reason we won the cup is because we never played that way. We played smart defensively but were always looking to push the puck and attack given the opportunity. Sitting back and only playing d can only last so long against highly skilled players. We'll be fine without Beagle this year. My bet is that we go through the season with the team as is and let Stephenson try to be the 4th line center. At the trade deadline I feel like the best move would be picking up plekanic from Montreal because they will be sellers again and will be looking to move his 1 year contract. Not sure why people don't think we can go back to back. Our team is solid and we don't have any clear bad contracts since restructuring orpiks. This team knows how to win and is hungry to do it again. Ovie celebrated like none other has after winning it all and do you not think he'd love to do it every year for the rest of his career?
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Reread you’re post, and your “I’m Done” thread, and evaluate your complete 180 since you the team you gave up squeeked out one, just one, Cup. . .
“Happy” shouldn’t last more than a few hours, because there is ALWAYS things to improve on.
So yeah, you’re clearly the dramatic and emotional one, that’s gone so overboard all you’re objectivity has vanishied. When the Caps go back to what I primarily criticize, more so
augmented with their Cup high, you’ll be saying “it was just an illusion, this team will never change, I’m done last post”, now that is what you call a fact.
I was objective enough to re evaluate my option based off results. You're a broken record despite results. You have zero objectivity. You hate this teams management so much that you'd whine at 3 cups in 6 years. You know one thing and one thing only.... Your way or the highway. Go be a Vegas fan and in 16 years when McPhee hasn't won there either maybe you'll see the light though I doubt it.
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Stereotypes are stereotypes because they are enough reasons for them to be.
But, as i said, it’s the style and mentality of a player, not where there born
I know exactly what you mean. Maybe the terms Eurosoft or Eurotrash shouldnt be used anymore.
You know I like the same style of players as you do. I also like to see highly skilled players but I prefer they play a complete game. Look at guys like Fedorov and Datsyuk. Sick skills and great defensively.
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I was objective enough to re evaluate my option based off results. You're a broken record despite results. You have zero objectivity. You hate this teams management so much that you'd whine at 3 cups in 6 years. You know one thing and one thing only.... Your way or the highway. Go be a Vegas fan and in 16 years when McPhee hasn't won there either maybe you'll see the light though I doubt it.
No. . you just followed a trend and now trying to attack those that are calling it out. So much, you arent even listening to what I am saying, you’re just triggered that i’m speaking reason and not following the dramatic narrative that is the trend.
So, let me put it this: the “have a chance to win a Cup” business philosophy has a 1/10 success rate since 2008. Factor into that, the team that did had very low expevtions coining into the season, playoffs, and each round, and required most players performing above their threshold.
If this philosophy continues, there is a high percentage chance that it will be another 10years to win it again.
So is looking at just one banner gonna be enough? If so, why?
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No. . you just followed a trend and now trying to attack those that are calling it out. So much, you arent even listening to what I am saying, you’re just triggered that i’m speaking reason and not following the dramatic narrative that is the trend.
So, let me put it this: the “have a chance to win a Cup” business philosophy has a 1/10 success rate since 2008. Factor into that, the team that did had very low expevtions coining into the season, playoffs, and each round, and required most players performing above their threshold.
If this philosophy continues, there is a high percentage chance that it will be another 10years to win it again.
So is looking at just one banner gonna be enough? If so, why?
Not sure why expectations were so low for this team. I figured they would go through some growing pains with some new additions and some rookies. And the Caps did go through the growing pains throughout the regular season. I was always optimistic that this team would be a contender.
People thought we lost too many players in last years offseason. Johansson, Williams, Winnick, Shattenkirk, Alzner and Schmidt. So what.
The only decent player we lost was Schmidt.
Maybe getting rid of the dead weight was what we needed.
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No. . you just followed a trend and now trying to attack those that are calling it out. So much, you arent even listening to what I am saying, you’re just triggered that i’m speaking reason and not following the dramatic narrative that is the trend.
So, let me put it this: the “have a chance to win a Cup” business philosophy has a 1/10 success rate since 2008. Factor into that, the team that did had very low expevtions coining into the season, playoffs, and each round, and required most players performing above their threshold.
If this philosophy continues, there is a high percentage chance that it will be another 10years to win it again.
So is looking at just one banner gonna be enough? If so, why?
No one said one is enough. No one said I hope they only win one. What I'm saying is actually try being objective instead of being a broken record. They won showing as built they CAN and DID do it thus proving me and you WRONG. You're still of the mindset thay it was luck and can't happen again. You're not being objective AT ALL. You have blind hate for management and that's ALL you can or are willing to see.
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No one said one is enough. No one said I hope they only win one. What I'm saying is actually try being objective instead of being a broken record. They won showing as built they CAN and DID do it thus proving me and you WRONG. You're still of the mindset thay it was luck and can't happen again. You're not being objective AT ALL. You have blind hate for management and that's ALL you can or are willing to see.
calling you on your out of control emotion is the only thing I may sound like a broken record about. Nothing you said is accurate. It’s just a distorted narrative made to villify me for pointing out rationally, for not jumping on a trend that is almost entirely emotional and submissive.
And for the record, syllogism at a high/basic level is typically not objective, and is primarily a marketing or debate tool against people who don’t know better.
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No one said one is enough. No one said I hope they only win one. What I'm saying is actually try being objective instead of being a broken record. They won showing as built they CAN and DID do it thus proving me and you WRONG. You're still of the mindset thay it was luck and can't happen again. You're not being objective AT ALL. You have blind hate for management and that's ALL you can or are willing to see.
DC is a very negative Caps fan. We could win 2 or 3 more cups and he wouldn't be happy.
I think his heart is with the Red Wings. He praises their team even though the team should be in a complete rebuild mode. Almost all of their top players are over 30. Some are closer to 40. I dont see a lot of good young talent there.
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I guestion whether DC is even a Caps fan, his heart has always been with the Red Wings. I imagine people new to this board think he is a troll when they first read his posts.
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I guestion whether DC is even a Caps fan, his heart has always been with the Red Wings. I imagine people new to this board think he is a troll when they first read his posts.
meh, my first love was the Cubs. Wrigley was the first game my dad took me too. I've completely forsaken them for the Nats. But it was nice to see the Cubs finally win the pennant, repeat was ruined by Madden being an ass. I've got a good friend who cheers for the Nats, after he cheers for the Braves. I don't think less of him, but have questioned his sanity 8)
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I guestion whether DC is even a Caps fan, his heart has always been with the Red Wings. I imagine people new to this board think he is a troll when they first read his posts.
My god, DC Derangement has begun . . . 😖
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calling you on your out of control emotion is the only thing I may sound like a broken record about. Nothing you said is accurate. It’s just a distorted narrative made to villify me for pointing out rationally, for not jumping on a trend that is almost entirely emotional and submissive.
And for the record, syllogism at a high/basic level is typically not objective, and is primarily a marketing or debate tool against people who don’t know better.
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You are utterly delusional. There is zero point in conversation with you if you honestly can't see what a broken record you are even after winning. I'll allow you to move on thinking you've "won" the discussion like you always seem to think you do. Everyone sees it, but you. Guess what that means? Yep, it's you.
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My god, DC Derangement has begun . . . 😖
You were deranged long ago. :wackysmile:
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DC is a very negative Caps fan. We could win 2 or 3 more cups and he wouldn't be happy.
I think his heart is with the Red Wings. He praises their team even though the team should be in a complete rebuild mode. Almost all of their top players are over 30. Some are closer to 40. I dont see a lot of good young talent there.
Having grown up 1/4 of the year outside of Detroit, and 3/4 of the year (way) outside of DC, so i’ve always been a fan of BOTH cities/areas teams. Although I will admit it took me about 10 years to get over the 92 NFC championship game.
As for the Wings this year, I have “optimistic low expectations”, meaning it’s sometimes better for a team in this situation to not make the playoffs, but i’m “optimistic” that the team will develop the system, IQ, strength/cardio, and begin to regain the Wings mentality of “we’re going to win”. The similarities i am talking about is how both The Wings(or at least before Mr. I died) and The Caps have very strong and strict organizational business philosophies that have proved to create major issues.
In lieu of being a “broken record”, I’ll skip repaying how The Caps “We have a chance” philosophy puts sales over championships and go on to The Wings. Probably the greatest strength, and weakness of Mr. I was the hometown proud, Wimgs/Tigers family stance. This did, and still does in some cases, created an environment that drew players, coaches and anyone to Detroit and/or want to stay. This was carried on by the players, coaches, JLA staff, fans and city. Now this obviously, became highly effective up until their last Finals appearances (and what should of been two Cups). The team was getting older, there was a bottle neck at GRG who had several players that would of been on any other teams roster), the draft picks were getting lower, the league and planet caught on to accounting methods and getting young players outside the draft, Nick, Hank, Pavel, and Ozzie where all that was from a dynasty made up off all-time greats and hometown hero’s, they had to wear the away sweaters at home with the C and the A on the wrong side (sarcasm), it was clear to almost everyone that a youth movement to begin a rebuild/reboot was in order, and that it may of been to late.
But somewhere between Mr. I, Holland, and Babcock, a downward spiral started. Including keeping and resigning declining and/or plateauing players while keeping cheaper players in their 20s that most say are ready for the NHL in the AHL until they’re 26, keeping a coach who not only did many players not get along with, but refused to change a system that was becoming figured out, which exasperated the likes of DanFucknCleary having a well paid career longer than two seasons . . .
But you get the point, you could see the demise coming for years, and now they didn’t alter/adapt/or redesign their philosophies and practices at a fast enough, effective enough, or large enough scale so a team that made the playoffs for 20+ seasons, made the final 4 times and the conference finals (a lot of) times, is now a team with 1-2 hall of famers, and couple all stars, almost a glorified AHL team that fans are happy if they just develop and improve next year.
A cause to the “DC_Derangement Syndrome” is I have seen the Caps going down the same road for years. The Wings and other teams and business, where the value of the ideology out weighs the results.
Will The Caps end up like The Wings are now in 10, 8, 3, 2 seasons? It’s impossible to know for sure, but the the signs and the data is there and it is foolish and naive to dismiss it.
The Wings have 11 Cups, 4* since 97, and had the longest playoff streak in modern major sports history, and I don’t know any fan who says “it’s ok, I have complete trust in Mr Holland, and since we won the Cup for the first time in 40 years, I can die happily”.
Wings fans understand why the team is where it is now, and would be happy with steady improvement, it sure as hell doesn’t mean we like it, nor do Holland or even Mr. I (the man who almost single handedly saved the city, who recently died), get passes an excuses for this damn mess regardless of what they did in the past.
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You are utterly delusional. There is zero point in conversation with you if you honestly can't see what a broken record you are even after winning. I'll allow you to move on thinking you've "won" the discussion like you always seem to think you do. Everyone sees it, but you. Guess what that means? Yep, it's you.
🤣 So, you resort to the cliche “double down” tactic, and try to discredit your opponent by repeating the narrative louder as so it will become true. This is common and predictable when someone’s emotionaly based argument is based only on opinion, based on a “fact” derived from logic that was verified in Pavlov’s experiment with his dog thousands of years later.
All you've really said is a narrative that I’m some kind of lunatic-troll for not jumping on the trend. Rather ironic since you were emotionally animated in you’re dislike and frustration. So when you realized you where at risk of being criticized, you hoped on the band wagon and found an “enemy” to attack thereby elevating your status and proving your “sincerity”.
So, may I ask what you do for a living?
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Having grown up 1/4 of the year outside of Detroit, and 3/4 of the year (way) outside of DC, so i’ve always been a fan of BOTH cities/areas teams. Although I will admit it took me about 10 years to get over the 92 NFC championship game.
As for the Wings this year, I have “optimistic low expectations”, meaning it’s sometimes better for a team in this situation to not make the playoffs, but i’m “optimistic” that the team will develop the system, IQ, strength/cardio, and begin to regain the Wings mentality of “we’re going to win”. The similarities i am talking about is how both The Wings(or at least before Mr. I died) and The Caps have very strong and strict organizational business philosophies that have proved to create major issues.
In lieu of being a “broken record”, I’ll skip repaying how The Caps “We have a chance” philosophy puts sales over championships and go on to The Wings. Probably the greatest strength, and weakness of Mr. I was the hometown proud, Wimgs/Tigers family stance. This did, and still does in some cases, created an environment that drew players, coaches and anyone to Detroit and/or want to stay. This was carried on by the players, coaches, JLA staff, fans and city. Now this obviously, became highly effective up until their last Finals appearances (and what should of been two Cups). The team was getting older, there was a bottle neck at GRG who had several players that would of been on any other teams roster), the draft picks were getting lower, the league and planet caught on to accounting methods and getting young players outside the draft, Nick, Hank, Pavel, and Ozzie where all that was from a dynasty made up off all-time greats and hometown hero’s, they had to wear the away sweaters at home with the C and the A on the wrong side (sarcasm), it was clear to almost everyone that a youth movement to begin a rebuild/reboot was in order, and that it may of been to late.
But somewhere between Mr. I, Holland, and Babcock, a downward spiral started. Including keeping and resigning declining and/or plateauing players while keeping cheaper players in their 20s that most say are ready for the NHL in the AHL until they’re 26, keeping a coach who not only did many players not get along with, but refused to change a system that was becoming figured out, which exasperated the likes of DanFucknCleary having a well paid career longer than two seasons . . .
But you get the point, you could see the demise coming for years, and now they didn’t alter/adapt/or redesign their philosophies and practices at a fast enough, effective enough, or large enough scale so a team that made the playoffs for 20+ seasons, made the final 4 times and the conference finals (a lot of) times, is now a team with 1-2 hall of famers, and couple all stars, almost a glorified AHL team that fans are happy if they just develop and improve next year.
A cause to the “DC_Derangement Syndrome” is I have seen the Caps going down the same road for years. The Wings and other teams and business, where the value of the ideology out weighs the results.
Will The Caps end up like The Wings are now in 10, 8, 3, 2 seasons? It’s impossible to know for sure, but the the signs and the data is there and it is foolish and naive to dismiss it.
The Wings have 11 Cups, 4* since 97, and had the longest playoff streak in modern major sports history, and I don’t know any fan who says “it’s ok, I have complete trust in Mr Holland, and since we won the Cup for the first time in 40 years, I can die happily”.
Wings fans understand why the team is where it is now, and would be happy with steady improvement, it sure as hell doesn’t mean we like it, nor do Holland or even Mr. I (the man who almost single handedly saved the city, who recently died), get passes an excuses for this damn mess regardless of what they did in the past.
The Wings like any team has gone through tough times. In the 70s and 80s the Wings had 13 consecutive sub 500 seasons. When they finally did build a contender they continued to be a contender for a long time. Something that is more difficult now in the salary cap era. They have been fading for about 5 years now. I dont see the Wings being fixed very quickly.
I honesty feel the Caps have done a better job than the Wings at developing young players recently. I think that trend might change. The Caps dont have a lot of good prospects coming up. A couple of promising dmen. Nothing upfront though. When Ovi, Backstrom and Oshie are gone or are just too old to be productive we could be in trouble.
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If Vrana and Burakovsky do not develop into top end forwards the Caps will be in a world of hurt in a few years when Ovie, Oshie and Backy lose their effectiveness. The Caps do not have any potential top end forwards in the system. I was hoping they could come up with one at this year’s draft but it was not to be.
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The Wings like any team has gone through tough times. In the 70s and 80s the Wings had 13 consecutive sub 500 seasons. When they finally did build a contender they continued to be a contender for a long time. Something that is more difficult now in the salary cap era. They have been fading for about 5 years now. I dont see the Wings being fixed very quickly.
I honesty feel the Caps have done a better job than the Wings at developing young players recently. I think that trend might change. The Caps dont have a lot of good prospects coming up. A couple of promising dmen. Nothing upfront though. When Ovi, Backstrom and Oshie are gone or are just too old to be productive we could be in trouble.
Yep, a big part of the development issue is what I said earlier when they leaving the players in the minors to long and keepinc or signing vets during the early 2000s. So when they decided to rebuild (ice Holland talked Mr. I into it), the farn system got cleaned out.
So while they did develop several great NHL players, (granted no superstars but players almost anyone would take on their team),since the last cup, there’s a lot of gaps left from players who sat in the minors to long.
I agree that it will take a while, but they are on the right track. The farm system is getting reloaded, some said Holland had his best drafts ever these past two years (this is the guy who picked Pavel in 6th and Hank in the 7th rounds), they’re trading for picks and signing players to cap friendly contracts, (ie Vanek for 1 for 3) . . .
It is ironic, when The Wings won their last Cup ten years ago, the Caps where a rebuilding team, that shocked the hockey world on trade-deadline day (best, trade-deadline day, ever) to win 10 out of 11 to win the SE anc clinch a playoff spot on the last game of the season.
10 years later, The Caps win the Cup and the Wings are rebuilding.
20 years ago, they played in the SCF
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Ya Datsyuk in the 6th, Zetterberg in the 7th. Two of the best draft picks in recent NHL history. The Caps better late round picks were guys like Khristich and Bondra. Pretty good players but not the equivalent.
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Ya Datsyuk in the 6th, Zetterberg in the 7th. Two of the best draft picks in recent NHL history. The Caps better late round picks were guys like Khristich and Bondra. Pretty good players but not the equivalent.
Ya know that is one thing always i’ve questioned or complained about with the Caps: finding players deep in the draft, undrafted, or drafted/unsigned UFAs our of college/jrs.
As of now the Caps pre-training camp roster, only Djoos, Boyd, Greisch, and (I think) Copley where taken by the Caps in the 5th or later or UFA, and only Djoos and Copley will are guaranteed to make the roster.
Also Beagle was a undrafted UFA
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Ya Datsyuk in the 6th, Zetterberg in the 7th. Two of the best draft picks in recent NHL history. The Caps better late round picks were guys like Khristich and Bondra. Pretty good players but not the equivalent.
Yes, Datsyuk and Zetterberg became best of the best, really superstar level. May be one of the reasons, they never played in America before, therefore were pretty much unknown. Also RW was a top team with no luxury of first round picks. Kudos to to them for finding and developing these gems.
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My god, DC Derangement has begun . . . 😖
Hey Everybody!! It’s Rush here!
Family and I just got home about an hour ago from 10 day vacay in Vegas and southwest US. I’ve kept up with the site, regularly, every couple days or so, checking in as a guest, ever since checking out last December.
Just felt right to get back on again, as Caps hockey starts all over again in just a few weeks.
Glad to see the site growing, and we’ve obviously added some new folks, with some great hockey info and IQ. Always a good thing.
My general opinion on the offseason happenings is quite high this year, although I’m making a strong, concerted, effort to not mix EXPECTATIONS, with my opinion on how things have been handled this summer. I have been critical of GMBM in the past, And will continue when I disagree, but I give him a lot of praise, on balance, for some great summer signings, Not to mention his work at the deadline last season prior to us winning the cup!! Signing Kempny, hindsight now shows, was an EXCELLENT move. You all are more than familiar with my low opinion of Carlson, as a DEFENSEMAN, Even with his personally stellar offensive year! Kempny, with his sure puck handling, among other talents, fits and FILLS the gaps, so specifically well, that are ever-present shortcomings, in John Carlson’s defensive game. One of many MAJOR factors that contributed to our STANLEY!!!
Another stroke of genius, on the part of GMBM, was with the circular path used in the return of Brooks Orpik to the Caps, while simultaneously giving Grubauer the chance he deserves, and having Colorado pay the tab for the heavy Orpik contract.
Anyway, nuff said for now. Looking forward to the season, and posting from time to time.
To DC, AJ, Alta, Mick, Oldhat, Maaco, Lady, Lil, 4Caps, Newto, etc, and anyone else I forgot to mention here, I’m still riding out our well deserved, Stanley Cup JOY, 44 years in repression, as it remains one of the top highlights of my 59 year existence!!! TTYL FOLKS!!!!
RUSH
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Hey Everybody!! It’s Rush here!
Family and I just got home about an hour ago from 10 day vacay in Vegas and southwest US. I’ve kept up with the site, regularly, every couple days or so, checking in as a guest, ever since checking out last December.
Just felt right to get back on again, as Caps hockey starts all over again in just a few weeks.
Glad to see the site growing, and we’ve obviously added some new folks, with some great hockey info and IQ. Always a good thing.
My general opinion on the offseason happenings is quite high this year, although I’m making a strong, concerted, effort to not mix EXPECTATIONS, with my opinion on how things have been handled this summer. I have been critical of GMBM in the past, And will continue when I disagree, but I give him a lot of praise, on balance, for some great summer signings, Not to mention his work at the deadline last season prior to us winning the cup!! Signing Kempny, hindsight now shows, was an EXCELLENT move. You all are more than familiar with my low opinion of Carlson, as a DEFENSEMAN, Even with his personally stellar offensive year! Kempny, with his sure puck handling, among other talents, fits and FILLS the gaps, so specifically well, that are ever-present shortcomings, in John Carlson’s defensive game. One of many MAJOR factors that contributed to our STANLEY!!!
Another stroke of genius, on the part of GMBM, was with the circular path used in the return of Brooks Orpik to the Caps, while simultaneously giving Grubauer the chance he deserves, and having Colorado pay the tab for the heavy Orpik contract.
Anyway, nuff said for now. Looking forward to the season, and posting from time to time.
To DC, AJ, Alta, Mick, Oldhat, Maaco, Lady, Lil, 4Caps, Newto, etc, and anyone else I forgot to mention here, I’m still riding out our well deserved, Stanley Cup JOY, 44 years in repression, as it remains one of the top highlights of my 59 year existence!!! TTYL FOLKS!!!!
RUSH
whoo hoo! Rush is back!!!
Welcome back bro!
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Hey Everybody!! It’s Rush here!
Family and I just got home about an hour ago from 10 day vacay in Vegas and southwest US. I’ve kept up with the site, regularly, every couple days or so, checking in as a guest, ever since checking out last December.
Just felt right to get back on again, as Caps hockey starts all over again in just a few weeks.
Glad to see the site growing, and we’ve obviously added some new folks, with some great hockey info and IQ. Always a good thing.
My general opinion on the offseason happenings is quite high this year, although I’m making a strong, concerted, effort to not mix EXPECTATIONS, with my opinion on how things have been handled this summer. I have been critical of GMBM in the past, And will continue when I disagree, but I give him a lot of praise, on balance, for some great summer signings, Not to mention his work at the deadline last season prior to us winning the cup!! Signing Kempny, hindsight now shows, was an EXCELLENT move. You all are more than familiar with my low opinion of Carlson, as a DEFENSEMAN, Even with his personally stellar offensive year! Kempny, with his sure puck handling, among other talents, fits and FILLS the gaps, so specifically well, that are ever-present shortcomings, in John Carlson’s defensive game. One of many MAJOR factors that contributed to our STANLEY!!!
Another stroke of genius, on the part of GMBM, was with the circular path used in the return of Brooks Orpik to the Caps, while simultaneously giving Grubauer the chance he deserves, and having Colorado pay the tab for the heavy Orpik contract.
Anyway, nuff said for now. Looking forward to the season, and posting from time to time.
To DC, AJ, Alta, Mick, Oldhat, Maaco, Lady, Lil, 4Caps, Newto, etc, and anyone else I forgot to mention here, I’m still riding out our well deserved, Stanley Cup JOY, 44 years in repression, as it remains one of the top highlights of my 59 year existence!!! TTYL FOLKS!!!!
RUSH
Good to see you back Rush
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Welcome back Rush, looking forward to reading your insightfull posts. Training camp is a month away, can’t wait.
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Rush - you disappeared shortly after I met you - though it was something I said! Ha! Glad to have you back - and I agree with your post.
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Hey Everybody!! It’s Rush here!
Family and I just got home about an hour ago from 10 day vacay in Vegas and southwest US. I’ve kept up with the site, regularly, every couple days or so, checking in as a guest, ever since checking out last December.
Just felt right to get back on again, as Caps hockey starts all over again in just a few weeks.
Glad to see the site growing, and we’ve obviously added some new folks, with some great hockey info and IQ. Always a good thing.
My general opinion on the offseason happenings is quite high this year, although I’m making a strong, concerted, effort to not mix EXPECTATIONS, with my opinion on how things have been handled this summer. I have been critical of GMBM in the past, And will continue when I disagree, but I give him a lot of praise, on balance, for some great summer signings, Not to mention his work at the deadline last season prior to us winning the cup!! Signing Kempny, hindsight now shows, was an EXCELLENT move. You all are more than familiar with my low opinion of Carlson, as a DEFENSEMAN, Even with his personally stellar offensive year! Kempny, with his sure puck handling, among other talents, fits and FILLS the gaps, so specifically well, that are ever-present shortcomings, in John Carlson’s defensive game. One of many MAJOR factors that contributed to our STANLEY!!!
Another stroke of genius, on the part of GMBM, was with the circular path used in the return of Brooks Orpik to the Caps, while simultaneously giving Grubauer the chance he deserves, and having Colorado pay the tab for the heavy Orpik contract.
Anyway, nuff said for now. Looking forward to the season, and posting from time to time.
To DC, AJ, Alta, Mick, Oldhat, Maaco, Lady, Lil, 4Caps, Newto, etc, and anyone else I forgot to mention here, I’m still riding out our well deserved, Stanley Cup JOY, 44 years in repression, as it remains one of the top highlights of my 59 year existence!!! TTYL FOLKS!!!!
RUSH
Welcome back :thumbsup: , hope you had a few on Fremont St like I did :wackysmile: , it's very easy to lose track of night and day while in Vegas
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Good to see you back Rush
Thanks Maaco.
Don’t have a heart attack, but I will take this time to give props to your boy, #74. His offensive production was through the roof with his career year!! Hell, i’ll even concede that he ramped his defense up a little bit, especially when it mattered, in the final three rounds of the playoffs!!
I knew that caps management was going to pay him market value in order to keep him, which I personally wish they would not have done. Signing Kempny helps me to be able to stomach the deal a little better. I’ll just have to let the “good chemistry fit”, between the two of them, trump my negative singular focus on Carlson’s style of D. As I’ve mentioned to you before, I’m not in the camp that wishes 74 to fail. This would be counterproductive to the team. It’s just that at his size, 6‘3“ at about 215, I expect more grit and physicality out of him, especially in the crease!! We did get a rare glimpse of him getting somewhat physical in the matches with both Tampa and Vegas. Seems he has to get pretty pissed off though, before he’ll bring it out!! Nonetheless, we’ll see how his big juicy contract affects his efforts. We can only hope, buddy!!
Rush
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Welcome back Rush, looking forward to reading your insightfull posts. Training camp is a month away, can’t wait.
Thanks 4Caps for the kind words.
I look forward, as well, to reading your unique perspective from Kettler, although I remember hearing somewhere they’ve changed the name of the place.
I’m glad to have most everyone back this year. I saw your post recently, about Vrana and Bura. My hope, of course, is the same as yours, in that they will both grow. I am, however, more optimistic about Vrana being able to mature. Bura, while having all the theoretical single talent, individually, Will need to show a longer-term ability to play teamwork-type hockey, avoiding putting pressure on himself to do it alone, demonstrating that he understands that when he contributes to the success of his line, his personal success will naturally come. He started showing brighter signs of this in the playoffs. We have to hope that he stays away from injury, and that maybe his numerous “resets” have begun to stick!! If so, he could be stellar, but I’m not holding my breath!
More importantly, like you said, training camp is just a moth away!!!! LETS GO BOYS!!
Rush
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whoo hoo! Rush is back!!!
Welcome back bro!
Hey DC!!! WAZZUP BRO!
I love the fact that I’ve got the “newbie” title again, LOL! I have to insist that it means when I get up your way again, (preferably sooner than later), that I get another shot of that famous JD century!!! On a more serious note, let’s talk getting together in September, after my AC season slows down!! Looking forward to it!
Rush
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Rush - you disappeared shortly after I met you - though it was something I said! Ha! Glad to have you back - and I agree with your post.
Hey Beags!! Thanks, and great to hear from you buddy!!!
It wasn’t anything you said, it was just your daughters #74 jersey, LOL !!😂😂😂
Of course just kidding! Enjoyed meeting up with you that time, And look forward to seeing you again, only one thing has changed. I’m no longer in section 408. I’m still at the “attack twice” end, but now in section 105. Email me or PM when the season starts and we can meet up!! First beer is on me, my friend!
FYI, I was crushed to lose Beagle, and certainly would’ve liked to see some of that Carlson contract money go towards his return, but I am glad for beagle that he’s getting paid!!
Rush
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Welcome back :thumbsup: , hope you had a few on Fremont St like I did :wackysmile: , it's very easy to lose track of night and day while in Vegas
ALTA, my friend, how the hell are ya!!
Yeah man, definitely lived it up in Vegas. Maaco was mentioning the summer heat. For the ten days we were there, the lowest HIGH temp for the day was 109°F. Two of the days were 116 and 114. Although very dry, and it was nothing like here. No stickiness of any kind. I described it to a friend of mine as, when the breeze would blow, It felt similar to taking your shirt off, turning on your hair blow dryer, Setting the temp switch to HOT, holding it 12 inches away from your chest, And letting it blow directly on you.
Was also able to mark the Grand Canyon off my bucket list!! No description, no matter how creative, can do justice to it. It’s simply must be seen to behold!!
A not-well-remembered number of tequila shots, and some fairly warm blackjack tables, really helped to round out the trip, LOL!
Hope to see you this season again. Let me know when you go to one of the games!
Rush
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ALTA, my friend, how the hell are ya!!
Yeah man, definitely lived it up in Vegas. Maaco was mentioning the summer heat. For the ten days we were there, the lowest HIGH temp for the day was 109°F. Two of the days were 116 and 114. Although very dry, and it was nothing like here. No stickiness of any kind. I described it to a friend of mine as, when the breeze would blow, It felt similar to taking your shirt off, turning on your hair blow dryer, Setting the temp switch to HOT, holding it 12 inches away from your chest, And letting it blow directly on you.
Was also able to mark the Grand Canyon off my bucket list!! No description, no matter how creative, can do justice to it. It’s simply must be seen to behold!!
A not-well-remembered number of tequila shots, and some fairly warm blackjack tables, really helped to round out the trip, LOL!
Hope to see you this season again. Let me know when you go to one of the games!
Rush
some years ago a friend brought me back a tshirt from Phoenix, it was a skeleton sticking up outa the sand and it said "but it's a dry heat"
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some years ago a friend brought me back a tshirt from Phoenix, it was a skeleton sticking up outa the sand and it said "but it's a dry heat"
👍 Good one!
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ALTA, my friend, how the hell are ya!!
Yeah man, definitely lived it up in Vegas. Maaco was mentioning the summer heat. For the ten days we were there, the lowest HIGH temp for the day was 109°F. Two of the days were 116 and 114. Although very dry, and it was nothing like here. No stickiness of any kind. I described it to a friend of mine as, when the breeze would blow, It felt similar to taking your shirt off, turning on your hair blow dryer, Setting the temp switch to HOT, holding it 12 inches away from your chest, And letting it blow directly on you.
Was also able to mark the Grand Canyon off my bucket list!! No description, no matter how creative, can do justice to it. It’s simply must be seen to behold!!
A not-well-remembered number of tequila shots, and some fairly warm blackjack tables, really helped to round out the trip, LOL!
Hope to see you this season again. Let me know when you go to one of the games!
Rush
heh wow Vegas and New Orleans in the summer, . . . we sure know how to pick summer trips huh? 🤣🤣
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Hey Beags!! Thanks, and great to hear from you buddy!!!
It wasn’t anything you said, it was just your daughters #74 jersey, LOL !!😂😂😂
Of course just kidding! Enjoyed meeting up with you that time, And look forward to seeing you again, only one thing has changed. I’m no longer in section 408. I’m still at the “attack twice” end, but now in section 105. Email me or PM when the season starts and we can meet up!! First beer is on me, my friend!
FYI, I was crushed to lose Beagle, and certainly would’ve liked to see some of that Carlson contract money go towards his return, but I am glad for beagle that he’s getting paid!!
Rush
Puck - yes, my daughters jersey is a problem - guess I keep having to live with that. Unfortunately, I won’t be at the games going forward as I have moved and I gave up the season tickets. I will be watching every game though and stil rooting for Beagle with his new team. I hated to see that happen, but understood it and was glad he got his money - he was underpaid for years.
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Puck - yes, my daughters jersey is a problem - guess I keep having to live with that. Unfortunately, I won’t be at the games going forward as I have moved and I gave up the season tickets. I will be watching every game though and stil rooting for Beagle with his new team. I hated to see that happen, but understood it and was glad he got his money - he was underpaid for years.
Hey Beags.
I do now vaguely remember you mentioning your moving from the area. Well then, if you ever do get up this way to make a game or two, let us know.
That is funny about your daughter’s jersey, and of course you know I was joking. Truth be told, I think it’s great when a dad brings his daughter to a hockey game, especially keeping in view the touching story about your own mother taking you to experience hockey. Was it the Blues games? Anyway, I just remember it was one of my favorite posts and stories! Really one of the things that life is all about, IMHO!
Here’s looking forward to the new Caps Season!
Rush
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Hey, welcome back Rush!!
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Hey, welcome back Rush!!
Thanks Mick!!
I quoted your post on another thread. Good to see ya
Rush
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Training camp starts three weeks from today. Some players are already participating in informal workouts at Kettler oops I mean Medstar. For those who are unaware, the Caps practice facility has changed its name. It use to be Kettler Capitals Iceplex but now will be called Medstar Capitals Iceplex. Medstar is a medical care provider in the DC area. People will be confused when I tell them I am going to Medstar, they will think I am sick.
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Hank Zetterberg retires (https://www.nhl.com/app/news/henrik-zetterberg-unable-to-continue-nhl-career-with-detroit/c-300112788)
It was a great career, and he’ll go down in history as one of the greatest two-way and all around players ever. Though his “stats”, aren’t particularly high for Hall Of Famers, (337,623,969), his two Cups, Conn Smythe, and shift to shift performance, he certainly deserves it on the first ballot.
Thanks for everything Hank!
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https://youtu.be/v0663f8wk_M (https://youtu.be/v0663f8wk_M)