Poll

Who and why should we sacrifie?

Nicky
Holts
Any other options

Author Topic: Nicky v Holts  (Read 298 times)

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Offline Surreylily

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Nicky v Holts
« on: December 31, 2019, 06:34:39 PM »
We spent a little time without Nicky.  We did okay
Love Holts, but he has depleted without THE Whisperer

Undecicded  Must be another option .....
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Offline Mickstix

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2019, 06:40:42 PM »
Nolts?  :huh: :rofl:  Can't afford ol' Noltby.. He'll be more expensive then Nicky anyway, probably by quite a bit.. Ride him as far as he'll go, break in Sammy and see what we got..

Offline richkrt99

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2019, 06:58:14 PM »
Holtby.


I like him.  He is probably one of the top 3-4 reasons we have a Cup.


BUT.... (everyone I know has a really big but)


He is not worth 10M to THIS team.  Simply can't swing it.  Timing, contracts, evolution of this team, whatever....all points to the same thing.  Just can't afford a $10m Holtby  (not with Kuzy, Carly, Ovi, Backy, etc, etc, etc.


Unless Bmac and staff are willing to part with one of the really big assets (Carly, Kuzy, Ovi, Nicky, Oshie, Orlov) to shave cap, then Holtby's a gonner.

FFS - HIT HIM!!!

Offline Surreylily

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2019, 07:14:50 PM »
Nolts?  :huh: :rofl:  Can't afford ol' Noltby.. He'll be more expensive then Nicky anyway, probably by quite a bit.. Ride him as far as he'll go, break in Sammy and see what we got..

You little tinker , you!    :lol:   Took me a couple of times to notice it.   ;)
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Offline zerofox

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2019, 09:06:34 PM »
You sacrifice Holtby here and do what you can to keep Nick.

-Holtby is not worth $10 million per year to us. We have enough big boy contracts. $10 million is just way too expensive, and even if you think Samsonov is only 60% as good as Holts, we'd be getting 60% as good goaltending for 10% of the cost which is just more efficient, and those funds can plug holes elsewhere. Note, I don't think Sammy is only 60% as good as Holts, I think the gap is a lot closer.
-Holtby has declined without Mitch Korn.

-You don't need an established Vezina caliber goalie to win Cups. Look at the past few Cup winners. We've seen journeymen like Binnington and Matt Murray step up. They were relative unknowns. Not saying that Sammy has what it takes to get us the Cup. Just saying that he doesn't necessarily NOT have what it takes to get us the Cup.

-Backy is the longer tenured guy. Sure Holts has been around since 2008, but he wasn't anything close to resembling a starter until maybe 2012-2013, as he had spent prior seasons in the minors or delegated to NHL backup duty.

-Backy is part of the Backy and Ovi duo. They were the heart and soul of the team. They've set so many records together and have played so well together. You shouldn't break them up nor should you force them to play out their retirement years in a non-Caps uniform. These are Caps lifers and they should go out with all the fanfare and respect they deserve. Their jerseys will be retired by the Caps, there will be a statue of Ovi and Nicky holding up the Cup together. There's something intangible there that's worth more than keeping Holts. I mean okay, Holts gave us "The Save" but let's face it, he was utter trash for 90% of the year. Sure he was good when it finally mattered, but do you pay $10 million a year hoping that we get a year's worth of playoff Braden Holtby as opposed to Braden "backing up Gruby is fun" Holtby?


-If we get rid of Holts, we have Sammy who could conceivably step up as a starter. If we get rid of Backy, Kuzy and Eller as our top 2C does not provide any confidence at all. We'd have to go externally to find a proper top center and that could be costly. If Nicky is willing to take a cap-friendly deal, do it.




Offline Surreylily

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2019, 10:45:53 PM »
You sacrifice Holtby here and do what you can to keep Nick.

-Holtby is not worth $10 million per year to us. We have enough big boy contracts. $10 million is just way too expensive, and even if you think Samsonov is only 60% as good as Holts, we'd be getting 60% as good goaltending for 10% of the cost which is just more efficient, and those funds can plug holes elsewhere. Note, I don't think Sammy is only 60% as good as Holts, I think the gap is a lot closer.
-Holtby has declined without Mitch Korn.

-You don't need an established Vezina caliber goalie to win Cups. Look at the past few Cup winners. We've seen journeymen like Binnington and Matt Murray step up. They were relative unknowns. Not saying that Sammy has what it takes to get us the Cup. Just saying that he doesn't necessarily NOT have what it takes to get us the Cup.

-Backy is the longer tenured guy. Sure Holts has been around since 2008, but he wasn't anything close to resembling a starter until maybe 2012-2013, as he had spent prior seasons in the minors or delegated to NHL backup duty.

-Backy is part of the Backy and Ovi duo. They were the heart and soul of the team. They've set so many records together and have played so well together. You shouldn't break them up nor should you force them to play out their retirement years in a non-Caps uniform. These are Caps lifers and they should go out with all the fanfare and respect they deserve. Their jerseys will be retired by the Caps, there will be a statue of Ovi and Nicky holding up the Cup together. There's something intangible there that's worth more than keeping Holts. I mean okay, Holts gave us "The Save" but let's face it, he was utter trash for 90% of the year. Sure he was good when it finally mattered, but do you pay $10 million a year hoping that we get a year's worth of playoff Braden Holtby as opposed to Braden "backing up Gruby is fun" Holtby?


-If we get rid of Holts, we have Sammy who could conceivably step up as a starter. If we get rid of Backy, Kuzy and Eller as our top 2C does not provide any confidence at all. We'd have to go externally to find a proper top center and that could be costly. If Nicky is willing to take a cap-friendly deal, do it.


We spent  a lot of ime wihout nicky earier this year and we did more than okay.
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Offline Mickstix

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2019, 10:55:08 PM »
We've been w/o Holtby 12 games (Starts for Samsonov) this year.. 10 wins.  :uh-huh:

Offline Surreylily

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2019, 11:34:50 PM »
Tricky deision,nun?
what do you thin might e an alternative?
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Offline Surreylily

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2019, 11:36:27 PM »
 :-( 5'a not me it's my computer thimmammy
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Offline Surreylily

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2019, 11:37:24 PM »
 :wackysmile:
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Offline zerofox

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2019, 11:38:30 PM »

We spent  a lot of ime wihout nicky earier this year and we did more than okay.


We also have done quite well with Sammy instead of Holtby, or Gruby instead of Holtby when he was struggling. I'm not saying we totally suck without Backy, but he's a big part of the team, he's a great player, and we just gotta keep the guy around because of what he means to the team and fans.

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2020, 10:30:47 AM »

We also have done quite well with Sammy instead of Holtby, or Gruby instead of Holtby when he was struggling. I'm not saying we totally suck without Backy, but he's a big part of the team, he's a great player, and we just gotta keep the guy around because of what he means to the team and fans.
We would totally suck without Backy if we let him walk.  He is our most complete player and easily in the top 10, maybe top 5 centers in the league.  His stats have gone down not because of age, but of the massive other roles heís had to taken on brilliantly.


Heís our top face off and defensive center, has babysitted the young forwards, and plays in all situations (5-5,3-3, PP, PK etc).  This has caused a drop in his stats, but his all around ability to execute all of these roles at an elite level are a major contribution to every win.


There is simply not enough depth for his all around skill sets on the team or in the system to replace what he does, even with two or three players for several years at best

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2020, 11:32:56 AM »
Samsonov's development is on track, we should play him more and if he is doing great, then we are less depended on Holtby.   

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2020, 11:43:52 AM »
Goalie is the most important player, but I always against goalie's super expensive contracts. Why? So many teams were burn by those contracts, from Luango, Bryz, etc. For some reasons, they just don't shine for multiple years. 

Offline zerofox

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2020, 12:58:33 PM »
Goalie is the most important player, but I always against goalie's super expensive contracts. Why? So many teams were burn by those contracts, from Luango, Bryz, etc. For some reasons, they just don't shine for multiple years.


I think that's just more of an argument in favor of Sammy. He's already got better stats than Holts this year. Granted yes he's unproven over the long term. But Holts is near a .90 SV% and 3.0 GAA. Sammy is around .92 SV% and 2.3 GAA. I'd rather have the guy playing a bit better.

Offline alta

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2020, 01:23:28 PM »

I think that's just more of an argument in favor of Sammy. He's already got better stats than Holts this year. Granted yes he's unproven over the long term. But Holts is near a .90 SV% and 3.0 GAA. Sammy is around .92 SV% and 2.3 GAA. I'd rather have the guy playing a bit better.


thatís not a good comparison when one goalie has played 20 more games than the other, it also does not account for nights when the D sucks ass, which they have for this recent stretch of goals against
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Offline zerofox

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2020, 01:51:54 PM »

thatís not a good comparison when one goalie has played 20 more games than the other, it also does not account for nights when the D sucks ass, which they have for this recent stretch of goals against


Holts has played 29 games to Sammy's 14. Holtby's games played is enough to be considered a decent sample set. .90 SV% and 3.0 GAA is not good, period. Sammy hasn't played quite enough games to be confident that his performance is sustainable, but it's already been way better than where Holts is at. Holtby's stats are NOT NHL goalie caliber at all. And yeah our D sucks sometimes, but I'm not willing to buy that our D sucks only when Holtby plays lol.


I'm not saying Sammy is 100% capable of carrying us on his shoulders to another Cup. But based on his play so far, he deserves more starts. Instead we're forcing Holtby in just because he's the incumbent and has accolades to his name, but his performance is clearly not very good. If you had 39 year old Brodeur and a young goalie who was performing better, who would you start?

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2020, 02:33:08 PM »

Holts has played 29 games to Sammy's 14. Holtby's games played is enough to be considered a decent sample set. .90 SV% and 3.0 GAA is not good, period. Sammy hasn't played quite enough games to be confident that his performance is sustainable, but it's already been way better than where Holts is at. Holtby's stats are NOT NHL goalie caliber at all. And yeah our D sucks sometimes, but I'm not willing to buy that our D sucks only when Holtby plays lol.


I'm not saying Sammy is 100% capable of carrying us on his shoulders to another Cup. But based on his play so far, he deserves more starts. Instead we're forcing Holtby in just because he's the incumbent and has accolades to his name, but his performance is clearly not very good. If you had 39 year old Brodeur and a young goalie who was performing better, who would you start?
It’s not as so much as Holts vs Sammy. . . It’s a matter of GMBetaMale using EA Sports to do the salary cap.


The “optimists” are thinking Sammy is the next “hot rookie/young superstar goalie” like The Hens and Blues had. Which is not only a major risk after he’s made a starter, but the risk is the following years.


What fixes everything is to get rid of “number 2 center” that has one of the worst contracts in the league.  Ideally by trade, or just leave him up and see if Seattle takes him.
  That 8 mil fixes the Backstrom/Holts issue, cap issue, and goes a long way to fixing the faceoffs, turnover, Hockey IQ and effort issues

Offline Ozzies09tc

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2020, 02:38:28 PM »
I voted other bc it all depends on how GMBM structures the contracts.


Nicky may not ask for 10 nor is he worth it. 10/yr is for your game changers-cant live without players, if which I dont believe Nicky nor Holtbeast are worth.


Say they both take team friendly deals for 7 or 7.5 a piece...thats do-able
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Offline alta

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Re: Nicky v Holts
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2020, 03:14:02 PM »

Holts has played 29 games to Sammy's 14. Holtby's games played is enough to be considered a decent sample set. .90 SV% and 3.0 GAA is not good, period. Sammy hasn't played quite enough games to be confident that his performance is sustainable, but it's already been way better than where Holts is at. Holtby's stats are NOT NHL goalie caliber at all. And yeah our D sucks sometimes, but I'm not willing to buy that our D sucks only when Holtby plays lol.


I'm not saying Sammy is 100% capable of carrying us on his shoulders to another Cup. But based on his play so far, he deserves more starts. Instead we're forcing Holtby in just because he's the incumbent and has accolades to his name, but his performance is clearly not very good. If you had 39 year old Brodeur and a young goalie who was performing better, who would you start?


Holts is not the reason this team is losing right now, nor is he the reason everyone in front of him is playing like shit. But he is part of the reason this team is still in first place. Are you part of the lockerrroom staff? I ask because you seem to know more about what's going on than the rest of us. Like who's forcing the decision to play Holts over Samsonov. He is, and did earn the #1 spot. I see no reason to take that from him at this point. Especially when looking at how the rest of the team has played in the last 5 games. Maybe we should bench the team and tell Hershey to send everyone.

I'm not ready to upset the ship just yet. We know the flu is going through the lockerrroom right now, and it could be another week before everyone is back to normal. This team hasn't given their normal hard physical game in the last three, and the decision making in the ice has been atrocious. I know the flu effects me similarly, when I feel one coming on the motorcycle gets parked and the American Express stays in the safe. Usually for about a week. Multiply that by 30 people and it's going to take longer.

Personally, I don't see any $10M a year goalies in this league, and if the salary cap doesn't go up significantly in the next two years those contracts are going bite some teams in the ass. Worse than what the Caps are dealing with.
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