Talk about Capitals hockey & more! > Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion
Offseason starts
Maacoshark:
--- Quote from: DC_1908 on Thursday June 28, 2018, 08:43:37 AM Eastern ---While that certainly happened on occasion, and Housley was certainly never known for his D, and I don’t call many instances with Coffey. . .But I do recall The Wings seaming they needed to get tougher and smarter and trading their popular offensive Dman for a better player (Shannahan).
But either way, is “better” good enough? If Carlson’s points where 3/4, even half of his total, would his D be worth 8mil or what Sutter is paid? Is he good enough on D, to shutdown the top scoring forward every shift every night? Or does he just not suck at D AS BAD as the likes of Kleinberg, and how is that good enough?
The offensiveDman/4th forward is popular with fans. The more teams use them, over pay them, and become dependent on them, the more other teams will take advantage of it and exploit its risks. We’ve seen it happen to us for years, until we went to trap and everyone player played the games of their life, but that’s to much to bet 8mill on that happening for 8 years.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure how popular offensive defencemen are. Me personally, I dont like offense only defence men. I like good 2way defencemen and I also like the physical guys. Even better if it is a combination of everything. Like A guy like Shea Weber. I do consider Carlson a good 2way defenceman.
One thing I have noticed about you DC is that you prefer physical guys. But that doesnt necessarily mean they are good defensively. Infact sometimes it is quite the opposite. Some guys are so intent on getting the big hit that they get caught out of position.
Mickstix:
I don't have many issues with Carlson's actual "defense".. It's his decision making, usually below the goal line, that gets him in trouble, imo.. Or getting caught on a pinch every now a then.. Obviously his draw is the points, minutes and PP QB skills he has.. But Im just still not sure why they gave him 8x8.. Even 8x7 (years) would be much better for the Caps.. We get home town deals for guys like DSP.. Anyone with any clout or bargaining power at all rapes GMBM for the absolute MAX.. (Except for the coach of course.)
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: Maacoshark on Thursday June 28, 2018, 09:50:42 AM Eastern --- I'm not sure how popular offensive defencemen are. Me personally, I dont like offense only defence men. I like good 2way defencemen and I also like the physical guys. Even better if it is a combination of everything. Like A guy like Shea Weber. I do consider Carlson a good 2way defenceman.
One thing I have noticed about you DC is that you prefer physical guys. But that doesnt necessarily mean they are good defensively. Infact sometimes it is quite the opposite. Some guys are so intent on getting the big hit that they get caught out of position.
--- End quote ---
The old saying “Defense Wins Games, Offense Sells Tickets”, has proven prodomintly accurate throughout any sport.
In this case, if you take the most popular defenseman, the all-star vote getters, jersey sellers, highest salaries, and now a days e en Norris vote getters are offensive, if not offensive that play at least average D, with the minority being primary D, or shutdown Dmen. . . So yeah, I would say they’re the most popular.
I’m general I prefer smart defense-first defenseman. With that considered I prefer physical Dmen over offensive. They are harder to play against (particularly in the long term), give the goalie better protection, generally less risk, and generally more cap friendly allowing for a more for a deeper defense and deeper team.
Yes this appears to be contrary to “the way it is now”, but many teams are moving away from or not going with a “marque offensive Dman”, or lkeeoing on and just using him situational or on the PP, Vegas being the first that comes to mind.
Devise:
--- Quote from: Mickstix on Thursday June 28, 2018, 11:39:33 AM Eastern ---I don't have many issues with Carlson's actual "defense".. It's his decision making, usually below the goal line, that gets him in trouble, imo.. Or getting caught on a pinch every now a then.. Obviously his draw is the points, minutes and PP QB skills he has.. But Im just still not sure why they gave him 8x8.. Even 8x7 (years) would be much better for the Caps.. We get home town deals for guys like DSP.. Anyone with any clout or bargaining power at all rapes GMBM for the absolute MAX.. (Except for the coach of course.)
--- End quote ---
Dead on regarding his defensive problems. I don't think those defending him realize it isn't his ability to play defense, it's just his mental game. When John Carlson is on he is a game changer. But he can sometimes get caught up in plays, overwhelmed, and mentally his hockey IQ just isn't as good, especially defensively.
But even then I've seen him make offensive reads, pinch when he shouldn't of or even just holding the blue sometimes. We give up tons of shorthanded changes gambling with him and Ovie on the back end, and while they both race back work harder now etc, let's not pretend it still doesn't happen where we have shorthanded breaks against because Carlson assumes he's got the puck on the blue line.
It's almost as if he gets a little too much swagger? He presumes it's his confident play as the only factor for it going well, and that leads to forgetting to constantly read the play, and one mis-read for a D with his kind of minutes sticks out like a sore thumb.
alta:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Wednesday June 27, 2018, 09:40:06 PM Eastern ---
In what world other than a fantasy world SHOULD Carlson's contract have been for 5 years or fewer? The Caps had to pay what they did to keep him because it was a lead-pipe cinch that some other team would have paid him at least 8 million dollars a year for the maximum term that an outside team could have signed him for, 7 years, and it would have happened on July 1.
Just like losing Chimmer? So the Caps lost Chimmer, and DSP was signed and now the Caps have a cup. How was losing Chimera such a gut-wrenching experience?
--- End quote ---
Where did I even imply it should've been less than 5? Ima say it slower this time.
H i s c o n t r a c t s h o u l d v e b e e n 5 y e a r s
j u s t b e c a u s e o f t h e c a p h i t .
Losing Chimmer was gut wrenching?? Must've been for you because I didn't say that either. But it was plainly obvious the energy he brought was missing after the trade.
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