Author Topic: Trotz resigned  (Read 22877 times)

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Offline Beaglefan2

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #20 on: Monday June 18, 2018, 10:56:45 PM Eastern »
Trotz got it done in the end and what people may not know is that he was very involved in the community. He made a very, very genoeous donation to help the Therapeutic Riding program which he had ties to with his son. Thanks Barry!

Offline Beaglefan2

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #21 on: Monday June 18, 2018, 11:02:25 PM Eastern »
One more thing - GMBM should shut up. He should just say they couldn’t get a contract done and make a big show of thanking Trotz and wish him well. Just leave out the details and keep it positive.

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #22 on: Monday June 18, 2018, 11:03:10 PM Eastern »
We don't know many internal things, so I think Caps will be Ok, and Trotz, too. Best wishes to Trotz, it was a great finish. 

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #23 on: Monday June 18, 2018, 11:08:47 PM Eastern »
One more thing - GMBM should shut up. He should just say they couldn’t get a contract done and make a big show of thanking Trotz and wish him well. Just leave out the details and keep it positive.


True, but I think he makes an example. If he'll satisfy all demands the team we'll fall apart. Reality has changed, with one hand players with new contracts want raise. On other hand, more good players would want to be Caps because there chances for more success. GM obviously should master the game.

Offline BlackIce

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 07:38:28 AM Eastern »
One more thing - GMBM should shut up. He should just say they couldn’t get a contract done and make a big show of thanking Trotz and wish him well. Just leave out the details and keep it positive.




Why do you think this?  The video posted on the previous page shows him taking reporters' questions and answering them in a way that at least sounds honest, if carefully parsed.  I know that reporters respect and appreciate that type of honesty, and as a fan who has a deep interest in the way an organization conducts its business I respect and appreciate it as well.  When GMBM said that some teams in the league might be willing to go to the lengths both salary-wise and term-wise that Trotz was looking for, and the rest of the league was not, he was obviously insinuating that the Caps are one team in the latter group.  He said the greater issue was term, with finances being a lesser issue, but still there.  I interpret that as meaning that they were willing to offer at least in the ballpark of the AAV he was looking for, but definitely not for more than 2-3 years.


I'm not interested in meaningless fluff and lies coming out of the mouths of team representatives.  If I want that I can listen to politicians.  Give me the straight scoop on what's happening -- fine, say it in a nuanced and politically correct way, as GMBM does, but give me the information.  GMBM does that, and I say good for him. 

Offline Second Sucks

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 08:38:56 AM Eastern »
Okay, so Trotz is out and Reirdon seems to be the heir apparent.  What is the infatuation with this team hiring coaches with no NHL head coaching experience.  They had one of the greatest players of his generation in his prime and none could get past the second round.

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 08:48:37 AM Eastern »



Reactions from BMGM. Seems like Mick nailed it that it seems to be money related, but still word out on a possible retirement. He also indicated term may be the problem too perhaps he wanted less seasons? But we wanted more money for more seasons? I don't know.


If Trotz goes to another team it'll be a huge loss for us. Huge. Especially if it's a in division competitor like the Isles etc.
that was humiliating. . . .


The combination of arrogance  faux-conifidance under the guise of "professionalism" ijusr indication that he was bullied, out-maneuvered, and out played in the negations,  again.  Particularly when there is little to no regulations,(compared to a players), on the contract.


I hope those VIP seat holders, and the rest of the STH won't mind  their prices going through the roof while knowing the team won't man up and keep one of the winningest coaches of all time.


Offline DC_1908

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 08:54:59 AM Eastern »
One more thing - GMBM should shut up. He should just say they couldn’t get a contract done and make a big show of thanking Trotz and wish him well. Just leave out the details and keep it positive.
Agreed. . .  that video just showed Trotz and his reps had all the power.  To many answers while trying to be a "mice Bill Bellicheck".


This Coach Killing sure as hell can't be marked uo to Ovie.

Offline Mickstix

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 09:32:30 AM Eastern »
Coaches make big bucks these days.. But I guess 5x5 is a little on the stiff side for a 1st time Cup winner? 5mil x 3, with a 2 year extension option sounds better to me, but then it's not my money so.. But I can see the scenario where we start sucking and they want a new coach in 2 years. Then what? Pay him 15 million to go away? With the team getting older, Ted and co. probably didn't think the coaching position was a "top" priority? Probably the wrong assumption and thoughts of a back to back Cup run down the drain, but they'll save a few million bucks..  :wackysmile: <---- I knew it wouldn't be long before I found a use for that goofy bastard again!  :rofl:

Offline 4 Caps

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 09:50:06 AM Eastern »

In this market I think that is perfectly reasonable. I'm sure the contract would still be worded in a way to let the Caps fire him if need be, i.e. if he lost the locker room.


If he signed a 5 year contract and the Caps fired him at some point he would still get paid for the remainder of the contract unless he accepted another job that paid him as much or more than his Caps contract. 

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 10:03:03 AM Eastern »

If he signed a 5 year contract and the Caps fired him at some point he would still get paid for the remainder of the contract unless he accepted another job that paid him as much or more than his Caps contract.
I believe that is only if the contract is guaranteed.  I have not heard of a manidate that dictates NHL coaches contracts to be guaranteed as there is no union or bargaining agreement.




Offline ArJunaZ

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 10:04:57 AM Eastern »
there may be a ton of reasons for this. maybe a purely family one like they hate living in D.C. or something. Or maybe he just wants to relax and coach without high expectations and go to NYI. Or maybe it really was just a money issue. I have a feeling though that he just wants to live a more stress-free life

I highly doubt that Trotz wants to leave DC. I remember an interview where he very adamantly said that he wanted to stay in Washington area because his family really loved it and found a home here and it was a very good place to be because of his son's situation. He's getting old. I would not be surprised if he simply retired. He just doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would want either for himself or for his family to live in one of the top NHL market cities in the USA, many of which are shit holes IMO. This resignation really caught me off guard. I can understand the teams perspective. Trotz wanted a 5 year contract with big bucks. I could see them going big for a couple years and see if he can repeat. I like Barry a lot and I wish he would take a shorter deal and give it another go. Washington also helped HIM become a Stanley Cup winning coach. It's not all Barry. Surprised they could not find a middle ground, which makes me think he's maybe satiated and ready to slow it down.
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Offline BlackIce

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 10:22:12 AM Eastern »
that was humiliating. . . .


The combination of arrogance  faux-conifidance under the guise of "professionalism" ijusr indication that he was bullied, out-maneuvered, and out played in the negations,  again.  Particularly when there is little to no regulations,(compared to a players), on the contract.


I hope those VIP seat holders, and the rest of the STH won't mind  their prices going through the roof while knowing the team won't man up and keep one of the winningest coaches of all time.




I don't understand your comment about being outmaneuvered in negotiations.  If he would have signed a huge contract deal that the organization really didn't want to do, THEN I'd say he was outmaneuvered.  But the organization, from what we can tell, heard what Trotz wanted and simply said no.


Now if you thought that Trotz should have been extended at a much higher salary before this year, then you might have a case, but it was clear that the organization wanted the option of moving on, and was willing to take the risk that it might backfire on them.  Why??  Maybe because "backfiring on them" by definition would have meant the team had Stanley Cup success, so at least they would have that in the bank.  Let's face it, if the Caps had fallen short again this year, you would be griping and demanding that the organization clean house, and you wouldn't have minded at all if Trotz had not been renewed, because "he's never won anything anyway."  All of a sudden, with the Cup in hand, Trotz becomes all that.

Offline chas

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 10:43:46 AM Eastern »
Let's face it, if the Caps had fallen short again this year, you would be griping and demanding that the organization clean house, and you wouldn't have minded at all if Trotz had not been renewed, because "he's never won anything anyway."  All of a sudden, with the Cup in hand, Trotz becomes all that.


That's the mystique associated with winning the Stanley Cup.  We kept hearing you can't win a cup unless you have a coach that has won a Cup (ignoring the whole contradiction).  This is great for Trotz. Other teams are going to open the checkbook.  Trotz is a proven regular season winner.  He might argue that his post season performance has always been any number of factors.  But he built a Stanley Cup team in five years.  Apparently, the organization doesn't think he was that pivotal in the Cup win.


What about the Capitals now?  It's not clear what changed in the post season. Did Trotz figure he was already checked out anyway and just give the reins to Reirden and it took a few games to get things worked out?


I guess we will find out in a few months who was responsible.

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 11:55:28 AM Eastern »



I don't understand your comment about being outmaneuvered in negotiations.  If he would have signed a huge contract deal that the organization really didn't want to do, THEN I'd say he was outmaneuvered.  But the organization, from what we can tell, heard what Trotz wanted and simply said no.


Now if you thought that Trotz should have been extended at a much higher salary before this year, then you might have a case, but it was clear that the organization wanted the option of moving on, and was willing to take the risk that it might backfire on them.  Why??  Maybe because "backfiring on them" by definition would have meant the team had Stanley Cup success, so at least they would have that in the bank.  Let's face it, if the Caps had fallen short again this year, you would be griping and demanding that the organization clean house, and you wouldn't have minded at all if Trotz had not been renewed, because "he's never won anything anyway."  All of a sudden, with the Cup in hand, Trotz becomes all that.

First off, any coach can and should be able to be fired at anytime for any reason.  But they didnt fire Trotz, they let him quit.


Now for sake of argument, lets just say that the Caps made counter offers etc. . . how does an NHL GM not outmaneuver the agents of a coach?  Even if they had all the firepower?  Business deals are not merely  give and take,  but misdirection, illusions, disguised 'poison-pills' and the likes to gain current and future advantage.  If the result is a head coach leaving a team and area he loves after winning his first Cups for he and his agents to get paydays. . .is about all the proof you need to see that GMBetaMale was deystroyed and not able to crack Trotrz or his agents.


If that was the case, and his agents were being that unworkable, why "let" Trotz resign/  They do need to accept his resignation before ehe can resign?  Why not delay that as long as possible to both find his replacement and keep him from getting another job at the same time, or at least threaten that in negotiations.


However, two weeks after winning a Cup by primarily coaching and the captain, and   two weeks before Free Agency where several key players need resigned, . . . Monumental and BetaMale let themselves get railroaded and bullied into letting the coach walk.    Looks like the Same Ol Caps where someone has to fuck something up and something has to go wrong .
Now Im not that attached to people or names,  but were talking about a team that has had 5 coaches in 13 years that got out of the second once, a team that needed a philosophical and mental 180 to get past the second round, and team mixed with Hall of Famers and rookies just getting out off wining a Cup and partying all summer after their first (collective) Cup, . . . 


this does not seem like a great time to change coaches for this group does it?





Offline justwincaps

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 12:05:55 PM Eastern »
IMO the whole concept of a "coach-in-waiting" [Rierden] is a recipe for disaster.   It didn't work for St Louis when they hired Roe to replace Hitchcock and it didn't work here.

Love Barry Trotz, but i guess the administration has a value it places of coaches and Trotz exceeded that value.   I'm guessing GMBM figures Rierden can step in, has the respect of the players, and can keep the same system in place with little interruption that just won the Cup.

If Trotz can go get 5 x 5 from someone else, good on him.  I hated seeing Hendricks leave a couple of years ago but Nashville [if I remember correctly] offered him 4 years at $2 million so I'm happy he got paid, even if it wasn't in DC.  Same case with Alzner, I'm glad for him that Montreal overpaid him. The same will be the case with Beagle if he goes.  The same with Carlson if he goes. 

Offline BlackIce

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 01:44:05 PM Eastern »
First off, any coach can and should be able to be fired at anytime for any reason.  But they didnt fire Trotz, they let him quit.


Now for sake of argument, lets just say that the Caps made counter offers etc. . . how does an NHL GM not outmaneuver the agents of a coach?  Even if they had all the firepower?  Business deals are not merely  give and take,  but misdirection, illusions, disguised 'poison-pills' and the likes to gain current and future advantage.  If the result is a head coach leaving a team and area he loves after winning his first Cups for he and his agents to get paydays. . .is about all the proof you need to see that GMBetaMale was deystroyed and not able to crack Trotrz or his agents.


If that was the case, and his agents were being that unworkable, why "let" Trotz resign/  They do need to accept his resignation before ehe can resign?  Why not delay that as long as possible to both find his replacement and keep him from getting another job at the same time, or at least threaten that in negotiations.


However, two weeks after winning a Cup by primarily coaching and the captain, and   two weeks before Free Agency where several key players need resigned, . . . Monumental and BetaMale let themselves get railroaded and bullied into letting the coach walk.    Looks like the Same Ol Caps where someone has to fuck something up and something has to go wrong .
Now Im not that attached to people or names,  but were talking about a team that has had 5 coaches in 13 years that got out of the second once, a team that needed a philosophical and mental 180 to get past the second round, and team mixed with Hall of Famers and rookies just getting out off wining a Cup and partying all summer after their first (collective) Cup, . . . 


this does not seem like a great time to change coaches for this group does it?


DC, it seems to me you're going off the deep end here.


(1)  My betting is that it wasn't the GM behind the refusal to extend Trotz, it was Ted Leonsis. He may have asked McLellan "A few months ago we were prepared to let Trotz go after the season and hire a replacement [likely for lesser money if he's a first-time NHL coach.]  Now that we have won the Cup, has the calculus changed so much that it's worth rehiring Trotz for several more years at a cost 3 or more times as much as what it would cost to bring in this new coach we were all fixated on a few months ago?"  If GMBM said no or gave Leonsis a list of pluses and minuses in reply, Ted probably said, "Then let's go with the new guy."  In short, I don't think the Caps got bullied at all.  They made their decision and will stick by it, and they did it the honorable way, while looking him in the eye.


(2) Your comment about letting Trotz hanging while a new coach is being hired is disingenuous, and you know it.  Honorable organizations don't work that way.  They are upfront with people, especially people who have been demonstrable successes and have earned respect.  Trotz and, more importantly, other coaches and their reps would know what is going on.  Treating a valued employee that way is a sure prescription for earning the distrust of everyone else you might want to hire.  Heck, the Caps might not be able to hire ANYONE of note to coach the team, even if they wanted to, if they pulled a stunt like that. 


(3)  Why is it the Caps that got the short end of the stick if Trotz felt obliged to leave "the team and area he loves?"  Sounds as though Trotz didn't exactly draw a long straw either, if you look at it that way.


(4) Business is business.  Always has been; always will be.  My view here is just the opposite of yours.  I don't think anybody was bullied, railroaded, or anything else.  I think the Caps drew a line based on business principles, Trotz drew a line based on market principles, the lines didn't intersect, and the parties mutually decided to end the relationship and end it in a timely manner that was best for all concerned:  The Caps, Trotz, Reirden, and anyone else outside who might be a coaching possibility (if there are any such people.) 


(5)  The one loose end that feels to me to be hanging in midair in all of this is the supposed comment by Trotz to Tortarella at the end of the Jackets series about "being gone."  IF he was being lip-read accurately, it COULD be that Trotz had either already made a decision not to come back, or he knew that the organization was not open to renegotiating his contract at a level that he felt he had a right to command so he knew he would be forced out by circumstances.  How that may have affected what has gone on in the past week and a half we will never know.

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 02:02:51 PM Eastern »

DC, it seems to me you're going off the deep end here.


(1)  My betting is that it wasn't the GM behind the refusal to extend Trotz, it was Ted Leonsis. He may have asked McLellan "A few months ago we were prepared to let Trotz go after the season and hire a replacement [likely for lesser money if he's a first-time NHL coach.]  Now that we have won the Cup, has the calculus changed so much that it's worth rehiring Trotz for several more years at a cost 3 or more times as much as what it would cost to bring in this new coach we were all fixated on a few months ago?"  If GMBM said no or gave Leonsis a list of pluses and minuses in reply, Ted probably said, "Then let's go with the new guy."  In short, I don't think the Caps got bullied at all.  They made their decision and will stick by it, and they did it the honorable way, while looking him in the eye.


(2) Your comment about letting Trotz hanging while a new coach is being hired is disingenuous, and you know it.  Honorable organizations don't work that way.  They are upfront with people, especially people who have been demonstrable successes and have earned respect.  Trotz and, more importantly, other coaches and their reps would know what is going on.  Treating a valued employee that way is a sure prescription for earning the distrust of everyone else you might want to hire.  Heck, the Caps might not be able to hire ANYONE of note to coach the team, even if they wanted to, if they pulled a stunt like that. 


(3)  Why is it the Caps that got the short end of the stick if Trotz felt obliged to leave "the team and area he loves?"  Sounds as though Trotz didn't exactly draw a long straw either, if you look at it that way.


(4) Business is business.  Always has been; always will be.  My view here is just the opposite of yours.  I don't think anybody was bullied, railroaded, or anything else.  I think the Caps drew a line based on business principles, Trotz drew a line based on market principles, the lines didn't intersect, and the parties mutually decided to end the relationship and end it in a timely manner that was best for all concerned:  The Caps, Trotz, Reirden, and anyone else outside who might be a coaching possibility (if there are any such people.) 


(5)  The one loose end that feels to me to be hanging in midair in all of this is the supposed comment by Trotz to Tortarella at the end of the Jackets series about "being gone."  IF he was being lip-read accurately, it COULD be that Trotz had either already made a decision not to come back, or he knew that the organization was not open to renegotiating his contract at a level that he felt he had a right to command so he knew he would be forced out by circumstances.  How that may have affected what has gone on in the past week and a half we will never know.
Apologies for not being clear, but of course the paychecks are signed by Ted and Monumental.  I doubt BetaMale has much input on final decisions, but is just the “go between”.


And leaving him hanging would be smart, regardless of what some consider “dishonorable”, bush league etc.  Leaving him hanging both screws Trotz, his agents, and the teams trying to poach him while we find a replacement build strength.  Feelings are irrelevant.


Do you realize the data he takes with him if he goes to a team in the conference or division, particularly a contender?  Why allow that when you can hold on and only accept it if he signs with a team in the west?


This isn’t me going off the deep end, this is just an insult to the orginization and them allowing it to happen and/or not retaliating, which is why shit like this keeps happening
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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #38 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 07:21:04 PM Eastern »
  Trotz was to become a free agent had they not won the Stanley cup. I honestly think that GMBM had decided long ago that Reirdon was going to be the coach next season. That's why they blocks teams from talking to him. There were going to just let  Trotzs contract run out. They obviously didnt think they would win the cup. Winning the cup actually gave Trotz 2 more years. This while thing is making the Caps look like a mickey mouse organization.

Offline newtoCapsparty

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Re: Trotz resigned
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday June 19, 2018, 07:57:26 PM Eastern »
Read all of the thoughtful posts re:  this topic.  I'll admit that the news took the wind out of my post-Stanley-Cup-happiness sails; I thought the coach would return and his return would make the inevitable loss of some of the players a bit easier to take.  Now I'm just sad and preparing for repeat sad very soon when next year's roster firms up.  (I hated it when we lost Alzner.) 
My immediate reaction was to see the resignation as another example of a Washington sports owner messing up his own franchise (see Dan Snyder for example) with failed negotiations, not recognizing the real value of particular team members/coaches, etc.  But this struck me as odd, because my sense has been that Leonsis is the anti-Dan Snyder...so now I don't know what to think.  My hope now is that Trotz does retire--because I don't want to learn in a few weeks/months that he coaches for another team and his resignation was truly just another case of a Washington sports team owner who misread a situation--again.