GDT R4G2 Capitals @ Knights 2018-05-30 8:00pm EST NBCSW, CBC, SN, TVAS

[waynerivers]

Great win.  Excellent game from Holtby and great save to secure the win.  Watching the replay, though, the puck came out of the corner and practically passed through the crease.  As active as he'd been all night, I'm surprised he didn't just gobble that up and hold it for a faceoff.  He actually appeared to jump back on the play.  Just thought it was strange but glad he saved the day there.

[DC_1908]

I mentioned something similar about how the negatives about Vegas have been omitted from the fairy tale narrative that's been repeated over and over and over.

Good observation about the disconnect between the Vegas team we watch vs. glowing media descriptions of the same team.  I've been surprised, too, by cheap shots guys are taking 6 inches from a referee.  And before Game 1, I expected to feel somewhat good that the Caps were playing a good (fair) team and not a bunch of thugs who liked to instigate fights. 
Hits home the idea that it's risky to let some other group, e.g., sports writers, tell you what something is or isn't when you haven't seen it for yourself!  Go Caps!

Have you not watched a Hens game?  They’re worse with worse calls in their exhibition games let alone a SCF.


Everyone needs to man-up and quit crying about refs and the other team being mean.  We know the NHL officials are a joke, and that we are playing a team that may want the Cup more than we do. 

[BlackIce]

Have you not watched a Hens game?  They’re worse with worse calls in their exhibition games let alone a SCF.


Everyone needs to man-up and quit crying about refs and the other team being mean.  We know the NHL officials are a joke, and that we are playing a team that may want the Cup more than we do.

DC, I have to call baloney on that.  After watching the Caps hang on in last night's game after Kuzy went out, to say that Vegas has more desire than we do is a comment that cannot stand unchallenged.

[waynerivers]

The refs suck and the league obviously wants the Vegas fairytale to reach its culmination in a cup win.  What the Caps have to do now is not let up a bit at home.  If we keep mashing them physically and put lots of pucks on Fleury, they can be beaten.  And don't take any crap from Reaves, Tuch and a few of their other dirtbags. 

[alta]

DC, I have to call baloney on that.  After watching the Caps hang on in last night's game after Kuzy went out, to say that Vegas has more desire than we do is a comment that cannot stand unchallenged.

How do you measure a teams desire? By calling themselves misfits and cast outs? Or by believing in somekind of manifest destiny because of the way their season started? Nights believe both of those.

[BlackIce]

How do you measure a teams desire? By calling themselves misfits and cast outs? Or by believing in somekind of manifest destiny because of the way their season started? Nights believe both of those.

I think the Vegas team really doesn't believe either of these, though they may proclaim it publicly to try to help charge themselves up. 


They know the rules under which they became available for Vegas to select, and that many NHL teams were between a rock and a hard place about who to protect and who to expose to the draft.  Now a few teams made what were, in retrospect, some bonehead moves that allowed potentially good players to go to Vegas, and those players may feel a little slighted.  But for example, I'm sure Schmidt knows what the Caps' situation was and how they couldn't protect everyone.


As to manifest destiny, nobody with any sense believes that, and hockey players should believe it least of all, because they know first-hand how much effort it takes to achieve success.  "Success is destined to come my way just because it is" is nonsense; success is the result of hard and effective play.

[alta]

That Vegas Strong program aired again last night right after G2 coverage ended. Someone over there is trying to play the manifest destiny angle

[DC_1908]

DC, I have to call baloney on that.  After watching the Caps hang on in last night's game after Kuzy went out, to say that Vegas has more desire than we do is a comment that cannot stand unchallenged.

So the Caps definetly, assuredly, and absolutely want a Cup more than a team of players that where deemed expendable by their organizations that are on a historic pace in their first year?


And why?  They've had plenty of chances in the past 10 years, but now they "want" it?


People can underestimate and demean VGK all they want, but it doesn't change the fact  this is best team we've played this year, the only one who didn't write us off as an easy win, and the hungriest with the most to prove. . .


Without Holtby having an historic 3rd period, and/or weird bounce off a forwards pad. . .we could easily be down 2-0.

[KitFisto]

So the Caps definetly, assuredly, and absolutely want a Cup more than a team of players that where deemed expendable by their organizations that are on a historic pace in their first year?


And why?  They've had plenty of chances in the past 10 years, but now they "want" it?


People can underestimate and demean VGK all they want, but it doesn't change the fact  this is best team we've played this year, the only one who didn't write us off as an easy win, and the hungriest with the most to prove. . .


Without Holtby having an historic 3rd period, and/or weird bounce off a forwards pad. . .we could easily be down 2-0.

Without a cross check setting up a layup goal, we could be up 2-0.

[HoustonCapsFan]

Love it.

[chas]

Agreed!  This is effective far less than is designed or/expected (if at all), and typically ends up costing us.  If they keep this up it will certainly end up costing us big

I am picking on anyone in particular.  But they look for that outlet far too often.  Other teams have to know this.

[DC_1908]

Without a cross check setting up a layup goal, we could be up 2-0.

Sure,  or it could of won the first and lost second and it will still be 1-1


Both where close games, but still no reason to cry victim and be delusional that we are playing a dangerous opponent who is craving victory and the NHL officials and rules are both inept and corrupt.


So, we can cry, or give it back it to em. . .

[BlackIce]

So the Caps definetly, assuredly, and absolutely want a Cup more than a team of players that where deemed expendable by their organizations that are on a historic pace in their first year?


And why?  They've had plenty of chances in the past 10 years, but now they "want" it?


People can underestimate and demean VGK all they want, but it doesn't change the fact  this is best team we've played this year, the only one who didn't write us off as an easy win, and the hungriest with the most to prove. . .




Without Holtby having an historic 3rd period, and/or weird bounce off a forwards pad. . .we could easily be down 2-0.

You DO realize, of course, that between "them wanting it more than us" and "we wanting it more than them" IS a middle ground where both teams are hungry to an equivalent degree?  As for other teams writing us off as an easy win, I call baloney on that, too.  Nobody writes anybody off in the playoffs until they are complete, because all players know that when you do, it is the surest formula for defeat. 


I agree, Vegas has reasons to be hungry.  So do we -- a decade of frustration and now we have gotten to the finals and, one way or the other, the end is in sight.  I'll leave it to others to argue which situation breeds more hunger.  My thinking is that the primal instinct to win drives all athletes, especially once the ultimate prize is this close.


And I'm not arguing with you that Vegas is the best team we've played this year.  Heck, in an earlier thread somewhere I posted that it appeared exactly that way to me when I saw Vegas in DC during the regular season.  I said we seemed to be ready for the game (because Vegas had a great record coming in, so no reason to downplay them) but still seemed to be chasing the game, which we lost, the entire time.  It seemed to me that we were overmatched in that game more than any other that we were ready for they entire season.  So no, none of what Vegas has done surprises me at all, given what I've seen.


What surprises me about Vegas is only secondarily the success they've had as a first-year franchise.  What REALLY surprises me is the success they had as a FIRST-DAY franchise.  They have been as good as or better than any other team in the NHL from the first puck drop in the first meaningful (regular-season) game of their existence.  Nobody, including Vegas I suspect, can begin to understand how this could have happened.  It is as if they needed absolutely NO learning curve whatsoever.  We talk all the time about how players need to gain experience and learn certain skills and qualities intrinsic to winning and how to play as a team.  So nowhere on the Vegas squad was there ever any need for even one day -- one game -- to learn any of that, ever?


I am 70 years old, and I guarantee you, this is the most astounding story I have ever seen in sports, no matter which franchise wins the Cup.  Unfathomable.

[DC_1908]

You DO realize, of course, that between "them wanting it more than us" and "we wanting it more than them" IS a middle ground where both teams are hungry to an equivalent degree?  As for other teams writing us off as an easy win, I call baloney on that, too.  Nobody writes anybody off in the playoffs until they are complete, because all players know that when you do, it is the surest formula for defeat. 


I agree, Vegas has reasons to be hungry.  So do we -- a decade of frustration and now we have gotten to the finals and, one way or the other, the end is in sight.  I'll leave it to others to argue which situation breeds more hunger.  My thinking is that the primal instinct to win drives all athletes, especially once the ultimate prize is this close.


And I'm not arguing with you that Vegas is the best team we've played this year.  Heck, in an earlier thread somewhere I posted that it appeared exactly that way to me when I saw Vegas in DC during the regular season.  I said we seemed to be ready for the game (because Vegas had a great record coming in, so no reason to downplay them) but still seemed to be chasing the game, which we lost, the entire time.  It seemed to me that we were overmatched in that game more than any other that we were ready for they entire season.  So no, none of what Vegas has done surprises me at all, given what I've seen.


What surprises me about Vegas is only secondarily the success they've had as a first-year franchise.  What REALLY surprises me is the success they had as a FIRST-DAY franchise.  They have been as good as or better than any other team in the NHL from the first puck drop in the first meaningful (regular-season) game of their existence.  Nobody, including Vegas I suspect, can begin to understand how this could have happened.  It is as if they needed absolutely NO learning curve whatsoever.  We talk all the time about how players need to gain experience and learn certain skills and qualities intrinsic to winning and how to play as a team.  So nowhere on the Vegas squad was there ever any need for even one day -- one game -- to learn any of that, ever?


I am 70 years old, and I guarantee you, this is the most astounding story I have ever seen in sports, no matter which franchise wins the Cup.  Unfathomable.

I am saying that we should treat this opponent as a rabid dog going after a porterhouse, and to match the ferocity, effort, and tactics each shift.


As for their instant success, while it is a perfect storm, there is a reason they picked these players when "better" or "bigger" names where available,  a reason they have six alternates and no captain, an abrasive asshole for a coach ( who was one of my favs growing up), and a owner who has demanded excellence from the entire organization from day one and has gotten it.   This is not a normal team, a normal organization, operating from normal philosophies, and the same mindset as everyone else. . . and this what started them to get here and after that it falls into place.


So 10 years of "maybe some day", 30+ years of frustration needs to be turned up even more, and "its ok that we made it this far" needs to not be tolerated

[Ozzies09tc]

Caps win the cup, pundits will say "they beat a brand new team in the NHL with a bunch of 3rd liners"

[apace41]

What surprises me about Vegas is only secondarily the success they've had as a first-year franchise.  What REALLY surprises me is the success they had as a FIRST-DAY franchise.  They have been as good as or better than any other team in the NHL from the first puck drop in the first meaningful (regular-season) game of their existence.  Nobody, including Vegas I suspect, can begin to understand how this could have happened.  It is as if they needed absolutely NO learning curve whatsoever.  We talk all the time about how players need to gain experience and learn certain skills and qualities intrinsic to winning and how to play as a team.  So nowhere on the Vegas squad was there ever any need for even one day -- one game -- to learn any of that, ever?


I am 70 years old, and I guarantee you, this is the most astounding story I have ever seen in sports, no matter which franchise wins the Cup.  Unfathomable.

I think that the reason they have been able to succeed from day 1 is the style of play they adopted.  They play hockey's equivalent of the old Arkansas Razorback's NCAA basketball "40 Minutes of Hell" and press the entire game. The don't play any kind of "system hockey" and that is why we saw a 4 on 1 in the 3rd period where Eller chose to shoot when he had several better options that would likely have resulted in a goal.  What last night showed is that a team that plays solid system hockey, with strong goaltending, can beat a team playing a full-out press if it converts its chances.  Note that in addition to the blown 4 v 1 we also had Vrana hit a post he should have scored on a 2 v 1 and Beagle mishandle on another 2 v 1.  Once we got the system set pretty well they didn't have any real odd man breaks. In addition, 9 of their 37 shots came during the 5 v 3 and ensuing 5 v 4/. But, for the most part, NHL teams are not prepared to handle teams that are in incredible shape and can skate them into the ice. Vegas creates a helter-skelter game like game 1 and thrives on it.  If the Caps allow themselves to play that game they are dead in the water.  If they play the style they did last night, which they can certainly play even better than they did last night, they should be fine.


Ice, I agree with your assessment with two possible exceptions:


2 years ago in the English Premier League when Leicester City won the championship after being moments away from relegation the prior year was, on a larger stage, equally or more unlikely
The 1969 Mets who had been a historically bad franchise for 6 years since inception going from last in the NL (every year except 2 times second-to-last) to World Series champs is right up there

[DC_1908]

Caps win the cup, pundits will say "they beat a brand new team in the NHL with a bunch of 3rd liners"

Or, we got beat by an exhibition team. . . We’re screwed either way 

[BlackIce]

Or, we got beat by an exhibition team. . . We’re screwed either way 

THIS is the last thing I am worried about, for two reasons.  (1) The mantra of champions always is "beat who is in front of you."  and (2)  It has been clear all season that Vegas is as good as or better than any of the other teams in the NHL, 1st season or not.  To diss them as inferior competition in any way is nonsense.

[DC_1908]

THIS is the last thing I am worried about, for two reasons.  (1) The mantra of champions always is "beat who is in front of you."  and (2)  It has been clear all season that Vegas is as good as or better than any of the other teams in the NHL, 1st season or not.  To diss them as inferior competition in any way is nonsense.

Nonsense has never stopped the pundents, media, Hens fans, Pierre, Milbury, and the ilk.  This would simply to insult us, not have any significance

[Stealyerfaceoff]

Trotz mentioning the hit on Kuzy was questionable...is that the general sentiment here?  I'm not sure...don't know enough about 'legal' v. 'illegal' hits.

So much of what is happening in these finals would be called a penalty during the regular season. And that in a nutshell is what is F'ed up with the NHL.
Not only do the rules change somehow in the playoffs, but they change from game to game and period to period.

As to the hit on Kuzya, he did leave his feet and throw an elbow. I invite you to spin the wheel of justice....