GDT#73 Stars @ Capitals 2018-03-20 7:00pm EST NBCSWA

[alta]

    Thats odd because you guys were shitting on him long before anyone ever mentioned Norris candidate. Especially you. There is no way you can say he won't get consideration for the Norris. He is the highest scoring dman in the league. Plays a ton of minutes and plays all situations.
   I wouldn't vote for him. I'd pick Hedman.

on the old site you directly accused me of "pounding him into the sand" yet when I asked for an example you were oddly quite, because I never did.

[Mickstix]

Shit, I turned it off.. Oh well, least they won. Can't wait till it starts to really matter!! 

[Maacoshark]

You're talking early in the season.  74 was very much 714 the past few years.  He's vastly improved this year.  To his credit the 714 moments are even fading into the past for the most part. We rolled our eyes many times in the past at his play.  You came in on the heels of that.

  He had a pretty good season a couple years ago. He was dealing with injuries the past couple years. Trust me I've rolled my eyes at his play plenty of times including this season. I think everyone is pleasantly surprised at his play this year.

[Maacoshark]

on the old site you directly accused me of "pounding him into the sand" yet when I asked for an example you were oddly quite, because I never did.

   Lol you do pound him into the ground. Lots of people here do. So what. If makes for some interesting conversations.

[alta]

   Lol you do pound him into the ground. Lots of people here do. So what. If makes for some interesting conversations.

you're missing the point. You directly accused me of something I didn't do. It has effected your memory ever since

[ArJunaZ]

  He had a pretty good season a couple years ago. He was dealing with injuries the past couple years. Trust me I've rolled my eyes at his play plenty of times including this season. I think everyone is pleasantly surprised at his play this year.

Ask yourself how this reply meshes with some of your past posts?  I and others have been pretty consistent IMO with regards to the criticizing and praising his play.  I don't see that anyone of us has unfairly called him out.  He's always been a capable player.  Now that he's improved his skills even further and largely eliminated his brain farts I don't think anyone would disagree that he's an excellent D-man. 

I/We had good reason to rip him at times the last couple years and even early this year. I personally have no bias for or against him.  I will call out or praise any player that IMO deserves it.  I'm a very impartial armchair hockey critic. 

From this post it seems you agree with what I just said.

[ArJunaZ]

you're missing the point. You directly accused me of something I didn't do. It has effected your memory ever since

Not wanting to gang up on you Maaco, but I agree with Alta.  I recall the exchange he mentions and you never provided a single example of Alta "pounding Carlson into the Ground". I don't recall anyone doing that.

To me this entire unfair Carlson bashing meme is a fabrication that you are doing your best to keep alive.

[Maacoshark]

you're missing the point. You directly accused me of something I didn't do. It has effected your memory ever since

   You have ripped Carlson plenty of times. So what.

[ArJunaZ]

Back to this game. I'd like to know what happened in the locker room and what adjustments and/or motivating words spoken that flipped the switch.  They began to play much better in the second period.  It was still very sloppy at times, but they were at least putting the effort forth and won the game.  I think someone else mentioned this, but these guys should be fined for making no-see drop passes or passes straight to the opponents tape.  Maybe one in ten of these actually succeeds.  When it works it can make for some great highlights, but it's not worth the risk.

[ArJunaZ]

 
     
         

[Maacoshark]

Not wanting to gang up on you Maaco, but I agree with Alta.  I recall the exchange he mentions and you never provided a single example of Alta "pounding Carlson into the Ground". I don't recall anyone doing that.

To me this entire unfair Carlson bashing meme is a fabrication that you are doing your best to keep alive.

   You guys are suffering memory loss apparently. You guys always take jabs at him. The qualude comments or even the 714 is actually ripping him. Not sure why you guys dont see it.

[alta]

   You guys are suffering memory loss apparently. You guys always take jabs at him. The qualude comments or even the 714 is actually ripping him. Not sure why you guys dont see it.

right, you are also the guy that told us last April that it wasn't fair to call out our own players when they play like crap, can't disrespect the sweater


 

[ArJunaZ]

1st Period
16:04  Stars PP GOAL Seguin   1-0 DAL

2nd Period
04:07  GOAL 77-Oshie, assists 8-Ovechkin & 20-Eller   1-1 TIE
05:32  GOAL 2-Niskanen, unassisted   2-1 WSH
11:48  Stars GOAL Radulov   2-2 TIE
13:41  PP GOAL 8-Ovechkin, assists 74-Carlson & 77-Oshie   3-2 WSH
18:15  Stars GOAL Benn   3-3 TIE

3rd Period
15:01  GOAL 74-Carlson, assists 20-Eller & 8-Ovechkin   4-3 WSH

FINAL:    4-3 WSH

[BlackIce]

That was a big game to get by.  We have more problems with San Jose and Dallas than any other Western Conference teams.


The next 5 are against lower-echelon teams.  We'd better try to get as many points as we can there, because the Fowl/St. Louis back-to-back is no picnic, followed by Nashville.  Then the last game against a NJ team that might be on the bubble to the very end.

[alta]

That was a big game to get by.  We have more problems with San Jose and Dallas than any other Western Conference teams.


The next 5 are against lower-echelon teams.  We'd better try to get as many points as we can there, because the Fowl/St. Louis back-to-back is no picnic, followed by Nashville.  Then the last game against a NJ team that might be on the bubble to the very end.

That was a huge game for the Caps, it was a four point night thanks to the Islanders. The Stars have had the Caps number ever since they moved south

[richkrt99]

   You guys are suffering memory loss apparently. You guys always take jabs at him. The qualude comments or even the 714 is actually ripping him. Not sure why you guys dont see it.

Maaco,
i'm not meaning this as an attack on you, but just using your quote as starting point: (well okay, the first part is directly to you, but the intent of my post was to discuss the Norris Trophy silliness)


Mostly I think you get the "Carlson Lover" tag as you do seem overly sensitive and usually respond to ANY criticism that 714 Johnny "Dylan" Qualude gets from any of us.


You don't seem as sensitive to complaints about other players.  Why only stick up for big Johhny D?


I know personally, that I'm a smartass, and will stir the pot (as in the monikers above), but I really don't mean any insult or offense to the person posting (or the bong-hitter I'm ragging on at the time).  I am here to discuss hockey and share opinions with other CAPS fans.  I do not always agree with them, but that is part of the reason I'm here....for others' opinions and comments.


Also, speaking for myself; MOST of the negative spew regarding Carlson comes from YEARS past - before you were part of the boards here.  Carlson deserved the names as he was obviously dense when it came to playing defense, and mostly that he was a seemingly uncaring, unmotivated, bong-smoking, dope of a marshmallow who was wasting his great potential to be a solid D-man for this team.  FFS, use your size and at least F'n HIT the guy you just let waltz thru your crease and run down your Vezina winning goaltender you big Lummox!
That was the type of comment I would frequently yell at the TV when watching Johnny D play.


I will admit (and have said several times before) that Carlson has G R E A T L Y improved his play the last two seasons.  This season especially.  Both the offensive and defensive play.  Along with the fact that I have entirely given up on him ever being a real physical D-man, he is much more tolerable to me.


So Carlson is not nearly as bad as the rap he still sometimes gets here, but most of it was based on his poor play historically and the rep he once greatly earned,


NOW....onto the real reason for my post.....this Norris Trophy Horse Crap:


I was mistaken in thinking that the Norris Trophy went to the ENTIRE LEAGUE'S best all-around Defensive player who demonstrates the best all around ability at the position.  My argument here is the definition of DEFENSE MAN position.


John Carlson is a great point producing hockey player who happens to be a defense men.  He is not ONE OF THE LEAUGE's best at the all around position of defense.
Yes he logs alot of minutes.  Yes he gets ALOT of points.  Yes he gets ALOT of hype, hence lots of Norris talk, but....
I DO NOT BELIEVE HE IS A GREAT DEFENSEMAN.  I am not saying he is a BAD D-man.  I am saying he is not one of the leagues great d-man


Scott Stevens was a great D-man.  Rod Langway was a great D-man.  Zdeno Charra was a great D-man.  Okay, so I am stuck in the past, but we are talking about great D-men who deserve to be mentioned among the leauge's best.


John Carlson is a very very good hockey player but not a great D-man.


Maybe my argument in not so much against Dylan, but against what the Norris Trophy now considers to be the best all around d-man.  Although, I did go look it up and it says:
"the National Hockey League's top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position"
(I am assuming the position they are referring to is Defense.)


w can the best all around defensive player in the league have 61 points yet a NEGATIVE plus/minus rating?  How can a team with one of the best goaltenders, yet worst defenses in the league have a Norris candidate?  How can a guy who no opponent fears playing against, or standing in the crease in front of, (or skating circles around, or running over, or skating on by...okay, I have wandered into smartass folly) be the best all around defensive player in the league?    61 points is ALOT of points.  Yet you have been on the ice for more goals against?  That's not a great defensive player, that's a great offensive player.  That's a very productive hockey player (for both your team and your opponent  ).  Hell, OVIE gets so much flack for not being a two-way player and he is a goal scoring FORWARD and his +/- is better than Johhny D's.  Ovie has a rep for not being a two way player and Carlson doesn't?  Yet Carlson position is DEFENSE (or at least that is what is says in the lineup)


I will grant you Carlson is one of the leagues best OFFENSIVE defensemen, but not agree he is the league's best all around player at the position of Defense....which IS still supposed to be the criteria for Norris candidates.


Why not mention Niskanen for Norris then?  He is a +24 or something.  Oh wait...he doesn't score enough to be considered a great defensemen  . 


Okay, rant over.


No offense intended to you Maako, but I don't think Dylan deserves all the Norris talk he is getting.  I think it is more about the successful marketing of John Carlson than about his play as a defensemen.


Really though, no offense....I was taking jabs at Dylan on purpose.  Cause it's still fun.  But seriously?  Norris Trophy?


GO CAPS





. . . . Edited to Fix some formatting issues.  AJ

[Mickstix]

Let me tell you something about Carlson!!  Nevermind, richkrt99 just said every damn thing!!