Washington Capitals Fan Forum
Talk about Capitals hockey & more! => Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion => Topic started by: Chris19 on Monday June 18, 2018, 03:17:37 PM Eastern
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Who's next - Reirdon?
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Who's next - Reirdon?
That was the speculation a week ago.
https://www.nhl.com/capitals/news/statement-from-the-washington-capitals-on-barry-trotz/c-299100932
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I will miss Trotz. Pure class on and off the ice. I don't think he's going anywhere else. Retire on top!
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He'll end up in NY with the Isles. Sad to see him go now the they got it done. He found the right buttons to push with this group.
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Very controversial decision by Trotz,however the club is more than one good person thus maybe new coach would help our team in new season to be motivated and energized for winning a cup 2 time in a row!
But the most important for now is to appoint a right person as a coach!
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It's going to be Reirden.
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Wow. Well good on Trotz I guess.[/size]When was the last time a coach resigned/retired just after winning the cup? (especially his first cup)
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I did not see this coming at all. I am totally shocked, I can’t believe they could not reach an agreement on a new contract. I know that apparently under his old contract he got a two year extension with a 300,000 dollar increase in salary for winning the Cup but that is peanuts. He deserved more than that. He is going to be a big loss, I expect Todd Rierden will become the head coach and I like him but he has some big shoes to fill.
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Wow. Well good on Trotz I guess.When was the last time a coach resigned/retired just after winning the cup? (especially his first cup)
Kennan in 94 and Bowman in 2002, but that wasn't Bowman's first cup.
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We need Gordon Bombay!
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Well, this is one reason I said that there's no downtime after the Stanley Cup win -- the team had to get busy on next year right away. The team won less than two weeks ago, and already this decision is made, probably partially to let Trotz hit the market and partially to give Reirden closure on what is going to happen. I bet the Caps made a business decision, offering Trotz a raise to, say, $3 million annually, but not the $5 million that the market demands now, figuring they would rather move on with Reirden and pay him less than 1/3 of what they would have had to spend on Trotz.
Or maybe Trotz really had his mind made up ahead of time, DID tell Torts that he wasn't returning, and really meant it from his point of view, not the Caps' point of view.
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Well, this is one reason I said that there's no downtime after the Stanley Cup win -- the team had to get busy on next year right away. The team won less than two weeks ago, and already this decision is made, probably partially to let Trotz hit the market and partially to give Reirden closure on what is going to happen. I bet the Caps made a business decision, offering Trotz a raise to, say, $3 million annually, but not the $5 million that the market demands now, figuring they would rather move on with Reirden and pay him less than 1/3 of what they would have had to spend on Trotz.
Or maybe Trotz really had his mind made up ahead of time, DID tell Torts that he wasn't returning, and really meant it from his point of view, not the Caps' point of view.
If Trotz had his mind made up for certain hard for me not to see it then being retirement. It's easy to forget that Trotz isn't entirely Ovie, he's been in the NHL and coaching in general a long time. 20 years of NHL head coach experience, and he's been coaching technically since 1984. So he's been doing this for over half his life at this point. It wouldn't be hard to see that after the Cup win he's just ready to settle down.
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If he retires we'll know if wasn't about the money.. Which we all know, it's always about the money.. lol I was ready to call for his head when the playoffs started, so can't really cry when he wins a cup and decides to walk.. But that's probably the best chance at repeating, walking out the door.. Back to the rookie head coaches that the players will either like or respect (when they feel like it) play 150 feet instead of 200, all that good stuff.. Oh well, they can't take it away! We've got a cup!! :raspberry:
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there may be a ton of reasons for this. maybe a purely family one like they hate living in D.C. or something. Or maybe he just wants to relax and coach without high expectations and go to NYI. Or maybe it really was just a money issue. I have a feeling though that he just wants to live a more stress-free life
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F89rWm5DyXg
Reactions from BMGM. Seems like Mick nailed it that it seems to be money related, but still word out on a possible retirement. He also indicated term may be the problem too perhaps he wanted less seasons? But we wanted more money for more seasons? I don't know.
If Trotz goes to another team it'll be a huge loss for us. Huge. Especially if it's a in division competitor like the Isles etc.
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I did not see this coming at all. I am totally shocked, I can’t believe they could not reach an agreement on a new contract. I know that apparently under his old contract he got a two year extension with a 300,000 dollar increase in salary for winning the Cup but that is peanuts. He deserved more than that. He is going to be a big loss, I expect Todd Rierden will become the head coach and I like him but he has some big shoes to fill.
Wow, how generous to give him a $300K bump for a Stanley Cup win to his already low $1.5M. At least low to other coaches making $5M-$6M. That is a slap in the face and just downright disrespectful. Some more organization arrogance....it doesn’t matter who the coach is, we have the talent, mentality.....how has that worked out for us under Ted.
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Wow, how generous to give him a $300K bump for a Stanley Cup win to his already low $1.5M. At least low to other coaches making $5M-$6M. That is a slap in the face and just downright disrespectful. Some more organization arrogance....it doesn’t matter who the coach is, we have the talent, mentality.....how has that worked out for us under Ted.
My understanding is that Trotz himself negotiated that 300k bump for a cup 4 years ago. If so then he slapped himself in the face.
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Apparently Trotz wanted five years at 5 million per year. Caps did not want to give him that long of a contract or that much money and Trotz was not willing to accept less. If that is true I can understand why a deal didn’t get done.
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My understanding is that Trotz himself negotiated that 300k bump for a cup 4 years ago. If so then he slapped himself in the face.
Maybe, but I haven't seen anything to confirm that yet. The bigger issue is fact that this organization won't/can't offer more. The only exception would be if Trotz truly is stepping away from the game and more money wouldn't make a difference.
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Apparently Trotz wanted five years at 5 million per year. Caps did not want to give him that long of a contract or that much money and Trotz was not willing to accept less. If that is true I can understand why a deal didn’t get done.
In this market I think that is perfectly reasonable. I'm sure the contract would still be worded in a way to let the Caps fire him if need be, i.e. if he lost the locker room.
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Trotz got it done in the end and what people may not know is that he was very involved in the community. He made a very, very genoeous donation to help the Therapeutic Riding program which he had ties to with his son. Thanks Barry!
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One more thing - GMBM should shut up. He should just say they couldn’t get a contract done and make a big show of thanking Trotz and wish him well. Just leave out the details and keep it positive.
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We don't know many internal things, so I think Caps will be Ok, and Trotz, too. Best wishes to Trotz, it was a great finish.
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One more thing - GMBM should shut up. He should just say they couldn’t get a contract done and make a big show of thanking Trotz and wish him well. Just leave out the details and keep it positive.
True, but I think he makes an example. If he'll satisfy all demands the team we'll fall apart. Reality has changed, with one hand players with new contracts want raise. On other hand, more good players would want to be Caps because there chances for more success. GM obviously should master the game.
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One more thing - GMBM should shut up. He should just say they couldn’t get a contract done and make a big show of thanking Trotz and wish him well. Just leave out the details and keep it positive.
Why do you think this? The video posted on the previous page shows him taking reporters' questions and answering them in a way that at least sounds honest, if carefully parsed. I know that reporters respect and appreciate that type of honesty, and as a fan who has a deep interest in the way an organization conducts its business I respect and appreciate it as well. When GMBM said that some teams in the league might be willing to go to the lengths both salary-wise and term-wise that Trotz was looking for, and the rest of the league was not, he was obviously insinuating that the Caps are one team in the latter group. He said the greater issue was term, with finances being a lesser issue, but still there. I interpret that as meaning that they were willing to offer at least in the ballpark of the AAV he was looking for, but definitely not for more than 2-3 years.
I'm not interested in meaningless fluff and lies coming out of the mouths of team representatives. If I want that I can listen to politicians. Give me the straight scoop on what's happening -- fine, say it in a nuanced and politically correct way, as GMBM does, but give me the information. GMBM does that, and I say good for him.
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Okay, so Trotz is out and Reirdon seems to be the heir apparent. What is the infatuation with this team hiring coaches with no NHL head coaching experience. They had one of the greatest players of his generation in his prime and none could get past the second round.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F89rWm5DyXg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F89rWm5DyXg)
Reactions from BMGM. Seems like Mick nailed it that it seems to be money related, but still word out on a possible retirement. He also indicated term may be the problem too perhaps he wanted less seasons? But we wanted more money for more seasons? I don't know.
If Trotz goes to another team it'll be a huge loss for us. Huge. Especially if it's a in division competitor like the Isles etc.
that was humiliating. . . .
The combination of arrogance faux-conifidance under the guise of "professionalism" ijusr indication that he was bullied, out-maneuvered, and out played in the negations, again. Particularly when there is little to no regulations,(compared to a players), on the contract.
I hope those VIP seat holders, and the rest of the STH won't mind their prices going through the roof while knowing the team won't man up and keep one of the winningest coaches of all time.
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One more thing - GMBM should shut up. He should just say they couldn’t get a contract done and make a big show of thanking Trotz and wish him well. Just leave out the details and keep it positive.
Agreed. . . that video just showed Trotz and his reps had all the power. To many answers while trying to be a "mice Bill Bellicheck".
This Coach Killing sure as hell can't be marked uo to Ovie.
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Coaches make big bucks these days.. But I guess 5x5 is a little on the stiff side for a 1st time Cup winner? 5mil x 3, with a 2 year extension option sounds better to me, but then it's not my money so.. But I can see the scenario where we start sucking and they want a new coach in 2 years. Then what? Pay him 15 million to go away? With the team getting older, Ted and co. probably didn't think the coaching position was a "top" priority? Probably the wrong assumption and thoughts of a back to back Cup run down the drain, but they'll save a few million bucks.. :wackysmile: <---- I knew it wouldn't be long before I found a use for that goofy bastard again! :rofl:
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In this market I think that is perfectly reasonable. I'm sure the contract would still be worded in a way to let the Caps fire him if need be, i.e. if he lost the locker room.
If he signed a 5 year contract and the Caps fired him at some point he would still get paid for the remainder of the contract unless he accepted another job that paid him as much or more than his Caps contract.
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If he signed a 5 year contract and the Caps fired him at some point he would still get paid for the remainder of the contract unless he accepted another job that paid him as much or more than his Caps contract.
I believe that is only if the contract is guaranteed. I have not heard of a manidate that dictates NHL coaches contracts to be guaranteed as there is no union or bargaining agreement.
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there may be a ton of reasons for this. maybe a purely family one like they hate living in D.C. or something. Or maybe he just wants to relax and coach without high expectations and go to NYI. Or maybe it really was just a money issue. I have a feeling though that he just wants to live a more stress-free life
I highly doubt that Trotz wants to leave DC. I remember an interview where he very adamantly said that he wanted to stay in Washington area because his family really loved it and found a home here and it was a very good place to be because of his son's situation. He's getting old. I would not be surprised if he simply retired. He just doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would want either for himself or for his family to live in one of the top NHL market cities in the USA, many of which are shit holes IMO. This resignation really caught me off guard. I can understand the teams perspective. Trotz wanted a 5 year contract with big bucks. I could see them going big for a couple years and see if he can repeat. I like Barry a lot and I wish he would take a shorter deal and give it another go. Washington also helped HIM become a Stanley Cup winning coach. It's not all Barry. Surprised they could not find a middle ground, which makes me think he's maybe satiated and ready to slow it down.
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that was humiliating. . . .
The combination of arrogance faux-conifidance under the guise of "professionalism" ijusr indication that he was bullied, out-maneuvered, and out played in the negations, again. Particularly when there is little to no regulations,(compared to a players), on the contract.
I hope those VIP seat holders, and the rest of the STH won't mind their prices going through the roof while knowing the team won't man up and keep one of the winningest coaches of all time.
I don't understand your comment about being outmaneuvered in negotiations. If he would have signed a huge contract deal that the organization really didn't want to do, THEN I'd say he was outmaneuvered. But the organization, from what we can tell, heard what Trotz wanted and simply said no.
Now if you thought that Trotz should have been extended at a much higher salary before this year, then you might have a case, but it was clear that the organization wanted the option of moving on, and was willing to take the risk that it might backfire on them. Why?? Maybe because "backfiring on them" by definition would have meant the team had Stanley Cup success, so at least they would have that in the bank. Let's face it, if the Caps had fallen short again this year, you would be griping and demanding that the organization clean house, and you wouldn't have minded at all if Trotz had not been renewed, because "he's never won anything anyway." All of a sudden, with the Cup in hand, Trotz becomes all that.
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Let's face it, if the Caps had fallen short again this year, you would be griping and demanding that the organization clean house, and you wouldn't have minded at all if Trotz had not been renewed, because "he's never won anything anyway." All of a sudden, with the Cup in hand, Trotz becomes all that.
That's the mystique associated with winning the Stanley Cup. We kept hearing you can't win a cup unless you have a coach that has won a Cup (ignoring the whole contradiction). This is great for Trotz. Other teams are going to open the checkbook. Trotz is a proven regular season winner. He might argue that his post season performance has always been any number of factors. But he built a Stanley Cup team in five years. Apparently, the organization doesn't think he was that pivotal in the Cup win.
What about the Capitals now? It's not clear what changed in the post season. Did Trotz figure he was already checked out anyway and just give the reins to Reirden and it took a few games to get things worked out?
I guess we will find out in a few months who was responsible.
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I don't understand your comment about being outmaneuvered in negotiations. If he would have signed a huge contract deal that the organization really didn't want to do, THEN I'd say he was outmaneuvered. But the organization, from what we can tell, heard what Trotz wanted and simply said no.
Now if you thought that Trotz should have been extended at a much higher salary before this year, then you might have a case, but it was clear that the organization wanted the option of moving on, and was willing to take the risk that it might backfire on them. Why?? Maybe because "backfiring on them" by definition would have meant the team had Stanley Cup success, so at least they would have that in the bank. Let's face it, if the Caps had fallen short again this year, you would be griping and demanding that the organization clean house, and you wouldn't have minded at all if Trotz had not been renewed, because "he's never won anything anyway." All of a sudden, with the Cup in hand, Trotz becomes all that.
First off, any coach can and should be able to be fired at anytime for any reason. But they didnt fire Trotz, they let him quit.
Now for sake of argument, lets just say that the Caps made counter offers etc. . . how does an NHL GM not outmaneuver the agents of a coach? Even if they had all the firepower? Business deals are not merely give and take, but misdirection, illusions, disguised 'poison-pills' and the likes to gain current and future advantage. If the result is a head coach leaving a team and area he loves after winning his first Cups for he and his agents to get paydays. . .is about all the proof you need to see that GMBetaMale was deystroyed and not able to crack Trotrz or his agents.
If that was the case, and his agents were being that unworkable, why "let" Trotz resign/ They do need to accept his resignation before ehe can resign? Why not delay that as long as possible to both find his replacement and keep him from getting another job at the same time, or at least threaten that in negotiations.
However, two weeks after winning a Cup by primarily coaching and the captain, and two weeks before Free Agency where several key players need resigned, . . . Monumental and BetaMale let themselves get railroaded and bullied into letting the coach walk. Looks like the Same Ol Caps where someone has to fuck something up and something has to go wrong .
Now Im not that attached to people or names, but were talking about a team that has had 5 coaches in 13 years that got out of the second once, a team that needed a philosophical and mental 180 to get past the second round, and team mixed with Hall of Famers and rookies just getting out off wining a Cup and partying all summer after their first (collective) Cup, . . .
this does not seem like a great time to change coaches for this group does it?
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IMO the whole concept of a "coach-in-waiting" [Rierden] is a recipe for disaster. It didn't work for St Louis when they hired Roe to replace Hitchcock and it didn't work here.
Love Barry Trotz, but i guess the administration has a value it places of coaches and Trotz exceeded that value. I'm guessing GMBM figures Rierden can step in, has the respect of the players, and can keep the same system in place with little interruption that just won the Cup.
If Trotz can go get 5 x 5 from someone else, good on him. I hated seeing Hendricks leave a couple of years ago but Nashville [if I remember correctly] offered him 4 years at $2 million so I'm happy he got paid, even if it wasn't in DC. Same case with Alzner, I'm glad for him that Montreal overpaid him. The same will be the case with Beagle if he goes. The same with Carlson if he goes.
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First off, any coach can and should be able to be fired at anytime for any reason. But they didnt fire Trotz, they let him quit.
Now for sake of argument, lets just say that the Caps made counter offers etc. . . how does an NHL GM not outmaneuver the agents of a coach? Even if they had all the firepower? Business deals are not merely give and take, but misdirection, illusions, disguised 'poison-pills' and the likes to gain current and future advantage. If the result is a head coach leaving a team and area he loves after winning his first Cups for he and his agents to get paydays. . .is about all the proof you need to see that GMBetaMale was deystroyed and not able to crack Trotrz or his agents.
If that was the case, and his agents were being that unworkable, why "let" Trotz resign/ They do need to accept his resignation before ehe can resign? Why not delay that as long as possible to both find his replacement and keep him from getting another job at the same time, or at least threaten that in negotiations.
However, two weeks after winning a Cup by primarily coaching and the captain, and two weeks before Free Agency where several key players need resigned, . . . Monumental and BetaMale let themselves get railroaded and bullied into letting the coach walk. Looks like the Same Ol Caps where someone has to fuck something up and something has to go wrong .
Now Im not that attached to people or names, but were talking about a team that has had 5 coaches in 13 years that got out of the second once, a team that needed a philosophical and mental 180 to get past the second round, and team mixed with Hall of Famers and rookies just getting out off wining a Cup and partying all summer after their first (collective) Cup, . . .
this does not seem like a great time to change coaches for this group does it?
DC, it seems to me you're going off the deep end here.
(1) My betting is that it wasn't the GM behind the refusal to extend Trotz, it was Ted Leonsis. He may have asked McLellan "A few months ago we were prepared to let Trotz go after the season and hire a replacement [likely for lesser money if he's a first-time NHL coach.] Now that we have won the Cup, has the calculus changed so much that it's worth rehiring Trotz for several more years at a cost 3 or more times as much as what it would cost to bring in this new coach we were all fixated on a few months ago?" If GMBM said no or gave Leonsis a list of pluses and minuses in reply, Ted probably said, "Then let's go with the new guy." In short, I don't think the Caps got bullied at all. They made their decision and will stick by it, and they did it the honorable way, while looking him in the eye.
(2) Your comment about letting Trotz hanging while a new coach is being hired is disingenuous, and you know it. Honorable organizations don't work that way. They are upfront with people, especially people who have been demonstrable successes and have earned respect. Trotz and, more importantly, other coaches and their reps would know what is going on. Treating a valued employee that way is a sure prescription for earning the distrust of everyone else you might want to hire. Heck, the Caps might not be able to hire ANYONE of note to coach the team, even if they wanted to, if they pulled a stunt like that.
(3) Why is it the Caps that got the short end of the stick if Trotz felt obliged to leave "the team and area he loves?" Sounds as though Trotz didn't exactly draw a long straw either, if you look at it that way.
(4) Business is business. Always has been; always will be. My view here is just the opposite of yours. I don't think anybody was bullied, railroaded, or anything else. I think the Caps drew a line based on business principles, Trotz drew a line based on market principles, the lines didn't intersect, and the parties mutually decided to end the relationship and end it in a timely manner that was best for all concerned: The Caps, Trotz, Reirden, and anyone else outside who might be a coaching possibility (if there are any such people.)
(5) The one loose end that feels to me to be hanging in midair in all of this is the supposed comment by Trotz to Tortarella at the end of the Jackets series about "being gone." IF he was being lip-read accurately, it COULD be that Trotz had either already made a decision not to come back, or he knew that the organization was not open to renegotiating his contract at a level that he felt he had a right to command so he knew he would be forced out by circumstances. How that may have affected what has gone on in the past week and a half we will never know.
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DC, it seems to me you're going off the deep end here.
(1) My betting is that it wasn't the GM behind the refusal to extend Trotz, it was Ted Leonsis. He may have asked McLellan "A few months ago we were prepared to let Trotz go after the season and hire a replacement [likely for lesser money if he's a first-time NHL coach.] Now that we have won the Cup, has the calculus changed so much that it's worth rehiring Trotz for several more years at a cost 3 or more times as much as what it would cost to bring in this new coach we were all fixated on a few months ago?" If GMBM said no or gave Leonsis a list of pluses and minuses in reply, Ted probably said, "Then let's go with the new guy." In short, I don't think the Caps got bullied at all. They made their decision and will stick by it, and they did it the honorable way, while looking him in the eye.
(2) Your comment about letting Trotz hanging while a new coach is being hired is disingenuous, and you know it. Honorable organizations don't work that way. They are upfront with people, especially people who have been demonstrable successes and have earned respect. Trotz and, more importantly, other coaches and their reps would know what is going on. Treating a valued employee that way is a sure prescription for earning the distrust of everyone else you might want to hire. Heck, the Caps might not be able to hire ANYONE of note to coach the team, even if they wanted to, if they pulled a stunt like that.
(3) Why is it the Caps that got the short end of the stick if Trotz felt obliged to leave "the team and area he loves?" Sounds as though Trotz didn't exactly draw a long straw either, if you look at it that way.
(4) Business is business. Always has been; always will be. My view here is just the opposite of yours. I don't think anybody was bullied, railroaded, or anything else. I think the Caps drew a line based on business principles, Trotz drew a line based on market principles, the lines didn't intersect, and the parties mutually decided to end the relationship and end it in a timely manner that was best for all concerned: The Caps, Trotz, Reirden, and anyone else outside who might be a coaching possibility (if there are any such people.)
(5) The one loose end that feels to me to be hanging in midair in all of this is the supposed comment by Trotz to Tortarella at the end of the Jackets series about "being gone." IF he was being lip-read accurately, it COULD be that Trotz had either already made a decision not to come back, or he knew that the organization was not open to renegotiating his contract at a level that he felt he had a right to command so he knew he would be forced out by circumstances. How that may have affected what has gone on in the past week and a half we will never know.
Apologies for not being clear, but of course the paychecks are signed by Ted and Monumental. I doubt BetaMale has much input on final decisions, but is just the “go between”.
And leaving him hanging would be smart, regardless of what some consider “dishonorable”, bush league etc. Leaving him hanging both screws Trotz, his agents, and the teams trying to poach him while we find a replacement build strength. Feelings are irrelevant.
Do you realize the data he takes with him if he goes to a team in the conference or division, particularly a contender? Why allow that when you can hold on and only accept it if he signs with a team in the west?
This isn’t me going off the deep end, this is just an insult to the orginization and them allowing it to happen and/or not retaliating, which is why shit like this keeps happening
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Trotz was to become a free agent had they not won the Stanley cup. I honestly think that GMBM had decided long ago that Reirdon was going to be the coach next season. That's why they blocks teams from talking to him. There were going to just let Trotzs contract run out. They obviously didnt think they would win the cup. Winning the cup actually gave Trotz 2 more years. This while thing is making the Caps look like a mickey mouse organization.
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Read all of the thoughtful posts re: this topic. I'll admit that the news took the wind out of my post-Stanley-Cup-happiness sails; I thought the coach would return and his return would make the inevitable loss of some of the players a bit easier to take. Now I'm just sad and preparing for repeat sad very soon when next year's roster firms up. (I hated it when we lost Alzner.)
My immediate reaction was to see the resignation as another example of a Washington sports owner messing up his own franchise (see Dan Snyder for example) with failed negotiations, not recognizing the real value of particular team members/coaches, etc. But this struck me as odd, because my sense has been that Leonsis is the anti-Dan Snyder...so now I don't know what to think. My hope now is that Trotz does retire--because I don't want to learn in a few weeks/months that he coaches for another team and his resignation was truly just another case of a Washington sports team owner who misread a situation--again.
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Trotz was to become a free agent had they not won the Stanley cup. I honestly think that GMBM had decided long ago that Reirdon was going to be the coach next season. That's why they blocks teams from talking to him. There were going to just let Trotzs contract run out. They obviously didnt think they would win the cup. Winning the cup actually gave Trotz 2 more years. This while thing is making the Caps look like a mickey mouse organization.
Exactly.
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I'm not too disappointed. Quite frankly for the first 30 or so games in the season when we were struggling, I attributed it to "new players getting used to the system & injuries" so I gave Trotz a pass. Things got better later on in the season but we had our struggles and there were some extremely frustrating coaching decisions that just made me feel like Trotz had to go after the season was over.
Turns out we won a Cup. Who saw that shit coming? Still, just because we won a Cup doesn't mean he's not going to make some of the same boneheaded decisions he made previously. I absolutely give him credit for getting us two President's Trophies and a Stanley fucking Cup. But I do also feel we need a coach who will lean more on young guys, for the betterment of the team going forward. Guys like Vrana and Burky and Djoos and others need legit opportunities to develop further, and I don't think Trotz is the guy to spearhead that change.
I'm less concerned that we lost a Stanley Cup winning coach, and more concerned that the replacement might have his own issues.
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I'm not too disappointed. Quite frankly for the first 30 or so games in the season when we were struggling, I attributed it to "new players getting used to the system & injuries" so I gave Trotz a pass. Things got better later on in the season but we had our struggles and there were some extremely frustrating coaching decisions that just made me feel like Trotz had to go after the season was over.
Turns out we won a Cup. Who saw that shit coming? Still, just because we won a Cup doesn't mean he's not going to make some of the same boneheaded decisions he made previously. I absolutely give him credit for getting us two President's Trophies and a Stanley fucking Cup. But I do also feel we need a coach who will lean more on young guys, for the betterment of the team going forward. Guys like Vrana and Burky and Djoos and others need legit opportunities to develop further, and I don't think Trotz is the guy to spearhead that change.
I'm less concerned that we lost a Stanley Cup winning coach, and more concerned that the replacement might have his own issues.
Because we have been going through growing pains with Burakovsky and Vrana you think Trotz isnt good with young players. We have other young players that have developed very well under Trotz. Kuzy, Grubauer and Orlov developed under Trotz and we had a lot of rookies contribute this year. I honestly feel Trotz has done can excellent job in DC.
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Because we have been going through growing pains with Burakovsky and Vrana you think Trotz isnt good with young players. We have other young players that have developed very well under Trotz. Kuzy, Grubauer and Orlov developed under Trotz and we had a lot of rookies contribute this year. I honestly feel Trotz has done can excellent job in DC.
Agreed, but Zero is dead on to worried about the new cioach,
The growing pains where correct in the last 6 games. They will now be coming back from a championship and summer of partying.to a new system, new environment and coach that will be trying to win the room and get them to play they finished last yea.
This isn’t just the young problem cases, this is the whole team.
This maybe the worst possible scenario for a coaching chance.
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Yeah, they will be awful. Should phone the season in now. It's time to panic. Fire whoever the new coach is before the season starts. In fact, move the team to rid us of this embarrassing franchise.
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Yeah, they will be awful. Should phone the season in now. It's time to panic. Fire whoever the new coach is before the season starts. In fact, move the team to rid us of this embarrassing franchise.
You heretic, You speak the devils language of logic.
The Caps are the greatest franchise in sports and the best buisness ever which is why everyone is mean to them.
Mr. Leonis. Mr. Patrick, Mr. McLellan, and the members of the board of Monumental Spoets and Entertainment, have built the greatest tram ever assembled in history. I have told my daughter she will be disowned & outcasted from the family if she doesn’t name out soon to be born grandchild after the greatest line ever: Andre Lars-Connolly.
I have complete, and unconditional faith in then and thier decisions. In fact I am offering them power of attorney for all my finical assets and medical care.
It doesn’t matter who the coach is, just make Ovie & Orpik player-coaches, and use the salary for the coach the build a statue of Mr. Leonsis our side the Capital building, because we will keep the
Cup forever.
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You heretic, You speak the devils language of logic.
The Caps are the greatest franchise in sports and the best buisness ever which is why everyone is mean to them.
Mr. Leonis. Mr. Patrick, Mr. McLellan, and the members of the board of Monumental Spoets and Entertainment, have built the greatest tram ever assembled in history. I have told my daughter she will be disowned & outcasted from the family if she doesn’t name out soon to be born grandchild after the greatest line ever: Andre Lars-Connolly.
I have complete, and unconditional faith in then and thier decisions. In fact I am offering them power of attorney for all my finical assets and medical care.
It doesn’t matter who the coach is, just make Ovie & Orpik player-coaches, and use the salary for the coach the build a statue of Mr. Leonsis our side the Capital building, because we will keep the
Cup forever.
No, they are the worst run organization in sports. They should all be thrown in prison for embarrassing us in this manor. How can anyone else like this team even a little? They are a total embarrassment on every level possible.
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No, they are the worst run organization in sports. They should all be thrown in prison for embarrassing us in this manor. How can anyone else like this team even a little? They are a total embarrassment on every level possible.
Blaspheme!! you blasphemer!!
The Buisness Of Happiness should be put back in all the pews in The National Cathedral (i alteady put them in once, and some heretic removed them). . .
After all they have done what no other NHL team in the last 100 yrs has done: Won a Stanley Cup!!
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I am well aware of how negative I can be at times, but you take the cake. We win the cup and you're still miserable. You'd rather miss the playoffs every year with the type of team you want than win a cup with a type of team you think is too soft.
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I am well aware of how negative I can be at times, but you take the cake. We win the cup and you're still miserable. You'd rather miss the playoffs every year with the type of team you want than win a cup with a type of team you think is too soft.
While I certainly can seem that way at, be assured I am just pragmatic, objective, and analytical by nature, which is why I work in the data field.
So I understand, and share the fun of winning the Cup, and acknowledge the excellent play, particularly in the last six wins and 7 games, from a data stand point it is just what is called a :snap shot in time".
It s very easy for emotion, particularly positive, to cloud if not hide negatives, even to the point o dismissing them,which is extremely dangerous. So it is irresponsible, of not delusional to assume that what you, I and the rest have perceived as negatives are not only no longer factors, but have been solved in the last 6 games which is roughly 6% of the season.
Keep in mind that these negatives, where not minor. Some the 8 losses where horrendous, there where games this year where plenty of people, even Alan May slammed this team as they looked like a rec league team.
The causes, (ie culture,descisions, etC) of these negatives,(aka what we have complained about for years) can simply not be e logically let alone accurately credited to the performance in the last 6 games. Unless of course, you consider it inspite of, or as a catalyst for frustration to cause the turnaround. Remvem, this team was doubted to even make the playoffs. Hell The front office even gave us a warning to not have high expectations for this season. . .
So we should all enjoy the Cup win, but we cannot get to high, assume that we are the greatest, that the next is ours, that we did everything right, that there is no more work to do, or even that we are better off going into next season than we where going into last season.
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Washington Times had an article said this is all on Ted. Said the two times GMGM had the chance to hire a coach without Ted, both had NHL experience and both times were Conference Champ Winners....1997 and with the Knights.
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Washington Times had an article said this is all on Ted. Said the two times GMGM had the chance to hire a coach without Ted, both had NHL experience and both times were Conference Champ Winners....1997 and with the Knights.
Certainly supports the rumor of hiring Oates when GMGM wamted Cooper
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And Trotzs gets hired by the NYI. . . .
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And Trotzs gets hired by the NYI. . . .
Yep sounds like it's 5 yrs for $4m per - good For Trotz as he's getting what he deserves
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Fukin Caps couldn't come off 5 years for $20 mil. Anyone here still doubt what DC say about management??
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Yep sounds like it's 5 yrs for $4m per - good For Trotz as he's getting what he deserves
What a stunning development. /sarc
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Fukin Caps couldn't come off 5 years for $20 mil. Anyone here still doubt what DC say about management??
I don't think it's only about money. GM did not see him successful for such a long time. Also he knows better who worth what. I guess we will have all answers in the next season.
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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/21/trotz-capitals-wasnt-really-sincere-what-we-did-to/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/21/trotz-capitals-wasnt-really-sincere-what-we-did-to/)
Ted shows his true colors....what a first class ingrate and arrogant shit.
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I don't think it's only about money. GM did not see him successful for such a long time. Also he knows better who worth what. I guess we will have all answers in the next season.
So, what is the first Stanley Cup in an organizations 44 year history worth? And with a team admittedly not as talented in years past? So, it really comes down to $10M. Basically the difference in the amount he signed for with the Islanders and what they wanted to give him. Term.....you can fire him and pay him, but no, let’s go with a new coach with no NHL head coaching experience. We have been there and done that and no results. How many chances at the Stanley Cup did we miss during the OV era because of Ted’s arrogance believing experienced coaching doesn’t matter.
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He's gone, they fucked up, what else is new? If Ted was a hard ass, it would make some sense, but we know he's a pussy when it comes to hire/fire situations.. The funny thing is, it appears he's put his foot down and it's to lose the only Championship head coach he's ever employed.. :rofl: What fucking idiots DC has running it's sports teams.. :wackysmile:
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I'm going to take the more optimistic route on this and assume that GMBM thinks Rierden is the guy and can replace Trotz without missing a step. If management really believed Trotz was irreplaceable, I can't see them balking at paying him what NYI has offered so I have a hard time believing this is about saving a few bucks [well, a few bucks to those guys ... seriously what's a couple of million dollars to Leonsis?].
If they bring in a complete outsider to coach the team, all that goes out the window. I think they have the upmost confidence in Rierden [maybe rightfully so, maybe not, after all he hasn't been a HC] and thought the greater risk was losing Rierden, not Trotz. The few comments I've heard from players have been positive regarding Rierden.
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I'm going to take the more optimistic route on this and assume that GMBM thinks Rierden is the guy and can replace Trotz without missing a step. If management really believed Trotz was irreplaceable, I can't see them balking at paying him what NYI has offered so I have a hard time believing this is about saving a few bucks [well, a few bucks to those guys ... seriously what's a couple of million dollars to Leonsis?].
If they bring in a complete outsider to coach the team, all that goes out the window. I think they have the upmost confidence in Rierden [maybe rightfully so, maybe not, after all he hasn't been a HC] and thought the greater risk was losing Rierden, not Trotz. The few comments I've heard from players have been positive regarding Rierden.
This is how I see it, too. When we can how everyone plays, coaching is more opaque. We see results and usually all credits go to Head Coach. GM definitely has more visibility on such things. Blocking from interviews Rierden just confirmed the value of this assistant coach. D greatly excelled also a very good sign. Would he be a great Head Coach? I hope so, although there is always risk involved. Even with Trotz.
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Well, a bit more deflated after details emerge about Trotz, the negotiation with the Caps, his new job in NY.
It seems like the Caps bailed on him pre-last season--which must have made the season difficult for Trotz right out of the gate. Despite ups and downs, the team was certainly better in the regular season than anyone expected it would be--isn't that worth something? And the Stanley Cup? Weren't these two factors--actual successful performance--worth renegotiating his extension in June? Seems to me, these two factors weigh in favor of giving Trotz (in June) more years and more money than the Caps decided he was worth back in September.
On the other hand, if the Caps were on the verge of firing him at points during the season, management must believe that the Caps success is not connected to Trotz (and more connected to Reirden?). I suppose time will tell--if the Islanders do well this year, well, then I guess management misread the situation entirely. The front office will look very badly if this turns out to be the case. And...in the end, for me, breaking up a Cup-winning team and its' coach days after the successful season ends just doesn't feel good. (But I do understand that feelings shouldn't drive this situation.)
Sorry for font problems! Don't know how this happened this time.
Sorry for my font problems...don't know how that happened.
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I'm going to take the more optimistic route on this and assume that GMBM thinks Rierden is the guy and can replace Trotz without missing a step. If management really believed Trotz was irreplaceable, I can't see them balking at paying him what NYI has offered so I have a hard time believing this is about saving a few bucks [well, a few bucks to those guys ... seriously what's a couple of million dollars to Leonsis?].
If they bring in a complete outsider to coach the team, all that goes out the window. I think they have the upmost confidence in Rierden [maybe rightfully so, maybe not, after all he hasn't been a HC] and thought the greater risk was losing Rierden, not Trotz. The few comments I've heard from players have been positiv
e regarding Rierden.
I think this is right on the mark. I don’t think it was about money or term, I believe BMac was not sold on Trotz and if you read the articles Trotz was close to being fired a couple of times during the season. Reirden has been clearly the coach in waiting and I really think the transistion will be seemless. Reirden knows the players and knows the system that was effective in the playoffs. I may be completely wrong but I don’t think we will miss Trotz next season. If we are going to win the Cup again next season it is more important that we re-sign Carlson than it is keeping Trotz.
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Fukin Caps couldn't come off 5 years for $20 mil. Anyone here still doubt what DC say about management??
The more I think about it the more I'm torn. Trotz did have a Cup winning clause in his contract. An extension and a raise. So he did want to redo what he had already agreed to. That's a bit of a sticking point for me.
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The more I think about it the more I'm torn. Trotz did have a Cup winning clause in his contract. An extension and a raise. So he did want to redo what he had already agreed to. That's a bit of a sticking point for me.
Look at the original terms. A $300,000 kicker for winning the Cup? That seems ridiculously low. Trotz must have had a terrible agent.
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So, what is the first Stanley Cup in an organizations 44 year history worth? And with a team admittedly not as talented in years past? So, it really comes down to $10M. Basically the difference in the amount he signed for with the Islanders and what they wanted to give him. Term.....you can fire him and pay him, but no, let’s go with a new coach with no NHL head coaching experience. We have been there and done that and no results. How many chances at the Stanley Cup did we miss during the OV era because of Ted’s arrogance believing experienced coaching doesn’t matter.
I remember some posts (on another board of course) that Trotz wasn't going to get us the Cup because he never had won a Cup. So, it feels like magical thinking that you need head coaching experience to be a head coach. Where do these head coaches come from? Granted, we have a history of promoting idiots to head coach but that mostly falls to GMGM IMHO. Let's see if GMBM has a better handle on what makes a good coach.
You have to wonder who the players were listening to all season if they knew that Trotz was basically a lame duck (to borrow from politics). Was this run inspired by the team in an attempt to help prove the worth of Trotz? Or did Trotz just checkout at the start of the playoffs and turn control over to Rierden? All will be revealed next season...
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I remember some posts (on another board of course) that Trotz wasn't going to get us the Cup because he never had won a Cup. So, it feels like magical thinking that you need head coaching experience to be a head coach. Where do these head coaches come from? Granted, we have a history of promoting idiots to head coach but that mostly falls to GMGM IMHO. Let's see if GMBM has a better handle on what makes a good coach.
You have to wonder who the players were listening to all season if they knew that Trotz was basically a lame duck (to borrow from politics). Was this run inspired by the team in an attempt to help prove the worth of Trotz? Or did Trotz just checkout at the start of the playoffs and turn control over to Rierden? All will be revealed next season...
I wouldn’t put that all on GMGM, he didn’t have total control of that. Ted and Monumental does.
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Fukin Caps couldn't come off 5 years for $20 mil. Anyone here still doubt what DC say about management??
I've always thought our biggest problems were with management. Have to say I'm disappointed to see Trotz gone. Hope he succeeds with his new team.
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This is how I see it, too. When we can how everyone plays, coaching is more opaque. We see results and usually all credits go to Head Coach. GM definitely has more visibility on such things. Blocking from interviews Rierden just confirmed the value of this assistant coach. D greatly excelled also a very good sign. Would he be a great Head Coach? I hope so, although there is always risk involved. Even with Trotz.
Are you really saying coaching doesn’t matter...that anyone can do it? Because it has only took us 44 years to win the Cup. Do I think Trotz is the only answer...no, but why do we always look at rookies for coaches...simple...they are cheap. You put your trust in a GM who gave Orpik and Oshie those terrible contracts and you put your faith in him? Well good luck to us.
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Are you really saying coaching doesn’t matter...that anyone can do it? Because it has only took us 44 years to win the Cup. Do I think Trotz is the only answer...no, but why do we always look at rookies for coaches...simple...they are cheap. You put your trust in a GM who gave Orpik and Oshie those terrible contracts and you put your faith in him? Well good luck to us.
We'll see how Oshie plays out over the next several years. Maybe he's a player who will age well. Maybe he isn't.
I'm sure I'm in a minority here, but in retrospect I don't think Orpik's contract was a terrible one. Was he overpaid? Yes, but UFA's generally are. Orpik was brought in for a specific purpose -- to provide a shutdown defenseman with snarl and commitment. THAT he did. I don't know if anyone here realizes what a stupendous season Orpik had his first year here to fulfill that purpose. In his first season here his hits + blocks -- the counting stats of a tough defenseman -- totaled over 500, in an era when the NHL was transitioning to the current speed game. No other defenseman in the league was within 100 of him. The Caps brought him in to set an example, and that is exactly what he did. He was hurt for half of his second year -- it happens. Even this year, he was a competent 3rd pairing/PK defenseman, which is probably all you can ask at his age in an era where he is more and more of a dinosaur. And he was traded out of the last year of that contract. So my assessment is that the Caps got at least decent value, if not totally fair value, out of that contract.
As for the coaching situation, I've moved on from Trotz. Everything I've heard from GMBM is that his main concern with Trotz is that he didn't think he had a shelf life of 5 more years here, which is the term Trotz wanted. That is an internal assessment that I have no way of knowing how to judge. He certainly seemed to go out on good terms with the team -- of course, a Stanley Cup will do that!! It seems strange for me on the surface to think that Trotz's mojo would wear off in a couple more years, but that's what the party line seems to be. As for who takes his place, we've seen both rookie and experienced coaches do well in the league. If Rierden is the man, so be it. I'm more concerned that the new coach be the best fit for the nature of the team as it is now and is able to work with both younger and older players effectively. Let's see who the 2018/2019 coaching STAFF is, too. I think the total coaching staff may be a little more important in the NHL than it is in the other major sports (OK, maybe not football.)
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I think Oshie will age well. He's not overly fast so losing a step won't hurt his game. I doubt his skill will just deteriorate much. He has good hockey sense and isn't going to lose that. He's the type of player who can probably play until close to 40 and still be productive IMO......baring serious injuries of course.
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Maybe we can have a head coach now that will tell the zebras when they are are wrong instead of saying thank you may I have another, this is pretty much my only issue with Trotz. The coach doesn't need to be an ass to tell the zebras they were wrong, but he does need to tell them
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Maybe we can have a head coach now that will tell the zebras when they are are wrong instead of saying thank you may I have another, this is pretty much my only issue with Trotz. The coach doesn't need to be an ass to tell the zebras they were wrong, but he does need to tell them
I know from experience that telling the refs that they are wrong usually doesnt benefit you.
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Look at the original terms. A $300,000 kicker for winning the Cup? That seems ridiculously low. Trotz must have had a terrible agent.
May be, but he signed the contract. That should mean something.
And it's pretty sick that the state of the world is that one could scoff at a 300k raise.
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Gutted. :(