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G43 Sharks @ Capitals 12:30pm Sun Jan 5, 2020 NBCSWA+, NHLN, SN, TVAS, FS-CR
ArJunaZ:
I would hope that Carlson never lays a hit on anyone as dirty and brutal as that Scott Stevens hit on Paul Kariya. I'm all for big hits, but not the stuff that hurts people permanently. Kariya suffers major brain damage from hits like that. I was just reading that he doesn't remember that hit or anything that happened for the next three days, including scoring goal 5 minutes after that hit in game 6 of the series, nor does he remember any of game 7. Scary that they let him play on after that hit.
I don't think Carson is the type of person to want to hurt anyone, and I am fine with that. Now sticking up for yourself or your teammates is something else and all players should do that. I'm all for a retaliatory strike.
PUCKNRUSH:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Monday January 06, 2020, 08:40:00 AM Eastern ---This will probably not get me a whole lot of love around here, but I'm going to come to John Carlson's defense.
As for Carlson's delay of game penalty, this was not a panic move on his part. Carlson moves the puck around the boards when he's caught behind the net to try to start a clear when he can't do it himself by using the boards and glass. And Carlson has been in the league long enough to understand the timing of NHL hockey plays. He know's he's going to get hit by Meier whether or not he releases the puck, because Meier is too close - Carlson is fair game for contact even a split second after release. What he DOES do by releasing the puck is get it up ice to where his teammates have a 4 on 3 manpower advantage. The most likely alternative, when being hounded 2 on 1, is giving up the puck in the defensive zone, earning Chicago more zone time at a point in the game where time is starting to become a factor.
Carlson didn't try to shoot the puck out to the rink there; he simply tried to play it off the glass and up the side, and got too much air under the puck. Maybe the puck flipped on him at the last millisecond or something -- I don't know. The issue here wasn't Carlson's attitude, it was his execution.
As for the extended rant about icing the puck when defending a 6 on 5 coming down the stretch, interesting you should mention that. It is EXACTLY what San Jose did after Vrana's goal, bringing the Caps back to the offensive zone for the play that set up Oshie's tying goal. Teams do it all the time, especially in the last minute of the game when protecting a 1-goal lead. Get the puck out of the zone at any and all costs, with the worst case being that some seconds are eaten up while the opponents chase the puck (since they are crowding the offensive zone anyway), and your presumed best defenders on the ice get a bit of a break while the puck is being retrieved. Don't forget, in the last minute of play you probably have your best defenders on the ice anyway, and they're going to stay out there until the horn sounds, so continuous play while the clock keeps running isn't always your best friend. And I cannot tell you how many times someone doesn't clear the zone when they have a clear shot at lambasting the puck, tries to make a play into the zone somewhere, the puck ends up NOT leaving the zone because the opponents are pressuring everything due to the game situation, and the opponents turn around and score it.
It is easy for us to criticize moves made by an NHL player while seated above it all. Things (1) look different when you are on the ice surface; and (2) are commonly supported by the player's experience of the best tactic having been through situations like this hundreds or thousands of times, as well as the organization's preference of what is to be done in such situations. If John Carlson weren't doing what the organization wanted during the last stages of the game, he wouldn't be on the ice in the last stages of the game. Think I'm kidding myself? Look how much time Ovechkin spends on the ice in such situations. Ovechkin's skill set is not good for protecting a late lead, so he doesn't see much ice time in those situations. Often times, Eller or someone like Dowd takes his place when Ovie's line mates are on the ice in those situations, giving the Caps better defense and two centers on face-offs in case one is thrown out of a face-off.
Carlson is not Wilson, or even Gudas. What he is, is a generally effective NHL defender who, because of his overall skill set, is recognized as one of the top defenders in the league, by people who know a lot more about the game than we do.
--- End quote ---
Well, Black, as usual, you have NOT disappointed, in your always, well-versed replies to my posts, whether they be pro, or con, to my view!
You may or may not get a lot of love here, from your post, as you mention, (I can’t call it), BUT... you will receive some respect for your opinion!
Whether I agree, disagree, or partially agree/disagree, with you, I always respect the ability of CLARITY, and the plausible reasoning behind your statements! (and NO, this is not some kind of reverse kiss-ass, butter up stuff, if anyone is inclined to be suspicious. I’m simply acknowledging, with appreciation, the mans care, and attentiveness, to good communication skills!)!👍👍
Having said that, You’ve given me a lot to digest, my friend, so I’ll try to respond to your post, paragraph by paragraph, that is, AFTER I address the LAST paragraph of your post, FIRST!
“Carlson is not Wilson, or even Gudas”.
Come on Black, I’ve got to give a good NSS on that one! (that’s Non Sense Sherlock, or the other one that’s more emphatic!)😁
Maybe a comparison, that’s a bit TOO opposite, Black, to believe that my points on Carlson, start with an expectation that he isn’t “Wilson level”, THEREFORE, THAT is why I think he’s a pussy!
Think about that reasoning, Black; for just a second.
If we had a hypothetical debate, in which you tried to persuade, and debate, that Mother Theresa, despite all her charitable attributes, STILL, had character flaws as a human being....and one of my counter points to you, was to say “Well, Black, Mother Theresa is NOT Hitler, or even Stalin”
I hope you see my point in this example, in that, YOU never even came close to such a comparison, and would think it absurd!
You would even be right, in this example, to say that I’d stooped to such a ridiculously low bar of comparison, As to call the weakness of my points into question. Otherwise, why would I need to do it??
YOU didn’t make the Mother Teresa/Hitler comparison. That would have been completely idiotic in its own right!! I DID IT, FOR YOU!! (falsely, I might add!).
Instead, I have to attribute it TO YOU, and incorrectly so, In an effort to bolster my position!
Lawyers do this all the time. Starting a conclusion, with an absurdly, over exaggerated premise! And if the jury BITES THE BAIT, his client may win!....(respectfully, though, not here, sir!)
Now, I’ve obviously, illuminated, and exaggerated, the example here, to make my point. But hopefully you get my drift.
[size=78%]Dammit! My Apologies, I’m against a little time crunch this evening, so I promise to get back and continue my response. If you want to take the opportunity to respond in the meantime. Feel free.[/size]
[size=78%]Hell, now that I’m thinking about it, it may be better to do these posts in shorter form, like this, as there’s a lot of subject matter between us on this issue![/size]
[size=78%]I’ll post again soon buddy.[/size]
[size=78%]Rush [/size]
PUCKNRUSH:
--- Quote from: ArJunaZ on Monday January 06, 2020, 05:52:50 PM Eastern ---I would hope that Carlson never lays a hit on anyone as dirty and brutal as that Scott Stevens hit on Paul Kariya. I'm all for big hits, but not the stuff that hurts people permanently. Kariya suffers major brain damage from hits like that. I was just reading that he doesn't remember that hit or anything that happened for the next three days, including scoring goal 5 minutes after that hit in game 6 of the series, nor does he remember any of game 7. Scary that they let him play on after that hit.
I don't think Carson is the type of person to want to hurt anyone, and I am fine with that. Now sticking up for yourself or your teammates is something else and all players should do that. I'm all for a retaliatory strike.
--- End quote ---
Well said, Bro!
I would however, wager that sitting down with DC, watching some greatest of all time hockey fight reruns, (and don’t forget to add in a few shots of JACK “century“), would be a pretty fun evening!
Rush
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: ArJunaZ on Monday January 06, 2020, 05:52:50 PM Eastern ---I would hope that Carlson never lays a hit on anyone as dirty and brutal as that Scott Stevens hit on Paul Kariya. I'm all for big hits, but not the stuff that hurts people permanently. Kariya suffers major brain damage from hits like that. I was just reading that he doesn't remember that hit or anything that happened for the next three days, including scoring goal 5 minutes after that hit in game 6 of the series, nor does he remember any of game 7. Scary that they let him play on after that hit.
I don't think Carson is the type of person to want to hurt anyone, and I am fine with that. Now sticking up for yourself or your teammates is something else and all players should do that. I'm all for a retaliatory strike.
--- End quote ---
The thing is, that hit was more brutal due to the size mistmatch. Stevens would and did hit ANYONE the same way.
It wasn’t as if Kariya had challenged to multiple fights and Stephens ran away to blind side him.
It also wasn’t a cheap shot where Karia had no idea, nor reason to think he was gonna get checked head first into the boards.
That was just hitting the guy with the puck, and hitting because Stevens loved to hit.
It was just a “hockey play”. Stevens didn’t pull-up because the name on the bsck of the jersey, and Kariya didnt respect who was on the ice to not be aware of it.
You’re right, Carlson wouldnt hit someone like that, but it’s because he ain’t D-man enough to do it
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: PUCKNRUSH on Monday January 06, 2020, 06:01:06 PM Eastern ---
Well said, Bro!
I would however, wager that sitting down with DC, watching some greatest of all time hockey fight reruns, (and don’t forget to add in a few shots of JACK “century“), would be a pretty fun evening!
Rush
--- End quote ---
Next time we hang out, well watch the Probert movie , and have a few bottles of Jack!!
Heh talk about a real hockey, we best not go to a bar after cause we’ll be ready to get into a hell of a good fight (or three, cause we can one bar fight easy, it’s the second and third that gets fun!!)
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