Talk about Capitals hockey & more! > Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion
Nicky v Holts
richkrt99:
I think Holtby is toast for the two basic reasons of expansion draft and salary Cap.
IF you resign Holtby - you are possibly losing Sammy. If Sammy were not showing so much promise and maturity then maybe no big deal, but he IS showing promise so the Caps are not going to want to risk losing him.
If you resign Backy, you CAN'T afford Holtby. Period. Even if both were to take hometown friendly deals (which I can see Backy doing, but not so much Holtby - Holtby is due 10mil....he will get it somewhere)
Unless you trade Kuzy, and spend that money on backy/Holby/Ovi the next few years, but then you have nothing to acquire a 2C which this team would desperately need. Does everyone recall what struggles this team had for YEARS trying to get a decent 2C. Kuzy's antics over the last couple seasons have put him in poor favor with alot of folks (me), but he is a GREAT hockey player when he wants to be, and he helps DRIVE the success of this team. Same goes for Backy. We lose either of our top two centers and this is a dramatically different team. I realize Backy is/will be in declining years, but think he can maintain a high level of play. Like DC said...he fills SO MANY roles.
I personally feel Backy means more to this team than Holtby (alot of reasons like DC mentioned)
I am in no way blaming Holtby for recent level of play. I think he is a gonner because we just can't afford him.
Also, I think ownership really wants to keep Ovi and Backy. I agree with that. May not make the most financial sense, but these two guys have made this franchise what it is; THE most winning team in the last decade. Should have had some better playoff success, but you just never know about the playoffs.
There's always some chance BMAC will make some big deal to shave salary, but that would have to be one of the guys the team is staked on and I really don't see that happening.
GO CAPS
BlackIce:
--- Quote from: 4 Caps on Wednesday January 01, 2020, 10:03:18 PM Eastern ---BlackIce you make a good point about the aging of the team but I will be totally shocked if the Caps don’t re-sign Backstrom and Ovie. I really think the feeling of management and ownership is that Backstrom and Ovie will retire as Capitals after having played their entire career as Capitals.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you, 4C, all indications are that the Caps want to keep Backstrom and Ovechkin as career Capitals. But honestly, what calibre of team are the Caps going to field in, say 2022/2023 with a 35-year-old Backstrom and a 37-year-old Ovechkin? If the team has sufficient quality that they can play as 3rd line players at that point, yeah maybe things will be OK. But is that really going to happen? If they and Oshie are still around and being heavily counted on then (there's already talk of Oshie being a 3rd line player), they would most likely be the core of a limited-upside team. In other words, the organization in taking such an approach would very likely be consigning the team's status at that point as an at-best-decent team supporting a goodwill tour of icons approaching the ends of their careers.
Now an argument could be made that due to their contributions to the franchise, the two deserve such treatment. But the franchise would then have to be realistic about the near-to-mid-term organizational future that they were committing to.
4 Caps:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Thursday January 02, 2020, 05:55:36 PM Eastern ---
I agree with you, 4C, all indications are that the Caps want to keep Backstrom and Ovechkin as career Capitals. But honestly, what calibre of team are the Caps going to field in, say 2022/2023 with a 35-year-old Backstrom and a 37-year-old Ovechkin? If the team has sufficient quality that they can play as 3rd line players at that point, yeah maybe things will be OK. But is that really going to happen? If they and Oshie are still around and being heavily counted on then (there's already talk of Oshie being a 3rd line player), they would most likely be the core of a limited-upside team. In other words, the organization in taking such an approach would very likely be consigning the team's status at that point as an at-best-decent team supporting a goodwill tour of icons approaching the ends of their careers.
Now an argument could be made that due to their contributions to the franchise, the two deserve such treatment. But the franchise would then have to be realistic about the near-to-mid-term organizational future that they were committing to.
--- End quote ---
They will definitely need to draft some young forwards who will hopefully develop. Vrana, Kuzy, Wilson should make a good top line. I am hoping by 2022-23, McMichael will develop into a good two way center who will replace Backstrom as the 2nd line center and Backstrom will be the 3rd line center. By then I still see Ovie being a top 6 forward but we will need another top 6 forward. Oshie if he is still with the team could be on the 3rd line with Backstrom. Our blue line should be fairly solid as we have a lot of good young defenseman in the system. In goal, hopefully, Samsonov will develop into a solid number 1 goalie which I think he will. In short, if in the next couple of drafts we can draft a top six wing I think we could still be a contender for the Cup.
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: 4 Caps on Thursday January 02, 2020, 07:43:25 PM Eastern ---
They will definitely need to draft some young forwards who will hopefully develop. Vrana, Kuzy, Wilson should make a good top line. I am hoping by 2022-23, McMichael will develop into a good two way center who will replace Backstrom as the 2nd line center and Backstrom will be the 3rd line center. By then I still see Ovie being a top 6 forward but we will need another top 6 forward. Oshie if he is still with the team could be on the 3rd line with Backstrom. Our blue line should be fairly solid as we have a lot of good young defenseman in the system. In goal, hopefully, Samsonov will develop into a solid number 1 goalie which I think he will. In short, if in the next couple of drafts we can draft a top six wing I think we could still be a contender for the Cup.
--- End quote ---
To do this, given the cap situation, we’d need a near fire sale/full rebuild. While the best case wold be trading/ letting high salary UFAs go, this time I agree with Caps to keep Ovie & Nick as career Caps.
Letting a player that could enter the top 5 or higher in all time goals would not only be an blight on the organization, but most of the fanbase would see it as insult, and it would be difficult to retrain them during the rebuild process.
That being said, when Ovie hangs em up Nick is likely to do the same. If not, that’s one of the best to serve as mentor, as well as he’s likely to be productive into his 40s.
As much as it pains me to say it, we could be better off keeping Kuzy and Carlson until Ovie retirees as this will help him reach that point, and keep there value up. After that, take their list of teams and load up on prospects and picks.
In the meantime, anyone else, not named Tom Wilson, should be up for trades to get prospects and picks at each deadline, (after this year), to start the rebuild, and focus should be both total cap reduction/management and/or organizational depth. Must of all, no long term high dollar extensions or UFAs regardless of their names or stats.
Moving the likes of Eller, Oshie, Orlov, Siggy even Vrana will more than likely drop us from Cup favorites to perha all but playoff hopefuls, but will also give what prospects we have NHL expierance/extended tryouts, but clear space in Hershey for picks prospects to take their proverbial lumps in Hershey and provide them a ‘fast-track’ to the NHL.
This very much what Boston did. The only “bad” signing recently being Backes. Also in a few years, we shouldn’t be surprised to see anyone not named Bergeron on the trade block.
richkrt99:
So despite what my recent posts (including this one) may appear....I am NOT really down on Holtz or a Holtby hater, but....
Why the heck is Holtby an all-star this year?
I assume because he is popular and that he has a lot of wins, but otherwise, his numbers are pretty poor.
So I looked it up (ahem....boredom thread calling)
Actually his wins (17) only puts him in the top 8, and this is by far his best goalie stat this year.
His GAA (2.99) ranks him at 41 (out of 78)
His save % (.902) puts him at 48
He has 14 Quality Starts which puts him in the top 17 (but 14QS in 29 games is less than half....meaning half the games he started were NOT quality starts
In fact nearly all his stats (including some other goalie stats) are below average. Now you can argue...Oh he's on a team with poor D and has to work harder for it....but one could also argue that he is on the best team in the league, so his numbers should be better.
Anyway, not picking on him, but He aint no All-Star this so far this season. Maybe he will run into Mitch Korn at the circus and pick up some pointers to carry him through the rest of the season.
and one more time....
THE THREAD MAN!
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