Talk about Capitals hockey & more! > Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion
GDT#79 Capitals @ Lightning 7:00pm Sat Mar 30, 2019 NBCSWA, NHLN, SUN
BlackIce:
--- Quote from: zerofox on Sunday March 31, 2019, 07:06:39 PM Eastern ---None of what happened yesterday was something I ever thought was going to happen. I thoroughly expected the Caps to shit the bed and Ovi to get shut down. I'm also pretty surprised that the Caps are somehow 4th in the standings. Well, more specifically, I expected the Caps to be a top 5 team going into the season, but when the season was halfway through and I saw how stupid Reirden was and how stupid some players were, I didn't think we'd end up anywhere near top 5.
I'm still hesitant to call us a good team though. I know we have an elite team on paper, but I still don't have faith in our coach, and I've seen too many of our supposed "good" players (like Kuzy, Carlson, Orlov, etc.) make too many stupid mistakes. Plus our PK and our PP with the dumbass drop pass suck.
--- End quote ---
Thing is, Zero, lots of teams use the slingshot/dropback pass. Ar they all stupid? There is a point to it - try to back off the defense and come through the neutral zone to enter the o-zone with speed. Lots of times it doesn't work, but it is what it is.
I think you'd find that, if you looked at other teams as closely as you look at ours, a lot of their players, including some of their best ones, make stupid mistakes as well. Watch other teams. Lots of them sling the puck "mindlessly" around the boards in the defensive zone, just as we do. It's SOP in the league, if you don't have a clear exit from the d-zone, when in doubt keep the puck along the boards, where there is less immediate threat. We steal pucks in those circumstances just as often as other teams steal it from us. Other teams also cough up the puck in more dangerous areas in the d-zone, just as we do. I don't deny that we make mistakes, sometimes egregious ones. I just think you remember ours more than you remember those of other teams, specifically our opponents. Hockey is very much a game of forced and unforced errors - it's the nature of the game.
zerofox:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Sunday March 31, 2019, 08:12:59 PM Eastern ---
Thing is, Zero, lots of teams use the slingshot/dropback pass. Ar they all stupid? There is a point to it - try to back off the defense and come through the neutral zone to enter the o-zone with speed. Lots of times it doesn't work, but it is what it is.
I think you'd find that, if you looked at other teams as closely as you look at ours, a lot of their players, including some of their best ones, make stupid mistakes as well. Watch other teams. Lots of them sling the puck "mindlessly" around the boards in the defensive zone, just as we do. It's SOP in the league, if you don't have a clear exit from the d-zone, when in doubt keep the puck along the boards, where there is less immediate threat. We steal pucks in those circumstances just as often as other teams steal it from us. Other teams also cough up the puck in more dangerous areas in the d-zone, just as we do. I don't deny that we make mistakes, sometimes egregious ones. I just think you remember ours more than you remember those of other teams, specifically our opponents. Hockey is very much a game of forced and unforced errors - it's the nature of the game.
--- End quote ---
You're right that I'll remember our errors way more than I'd remember opponent errors. I'm more critical of our team, and don't give two craps about how another team performs. Of course I'm going to watch our guys under a microscope. But yeah, part of me is well aware that if I were a fan of any other team, I'd be yelling at their players for making dumb plays and their coach for being incompetent just as much, if not more. After all, we're 4th in the NHL so there's plenty of teams who are making mistakes more than we are...
With regards to the PP drop pass, I've seen data that actually supports that the drop pass is actually beneficial and leads to more zone time in general. However, one interesting note was that the data for the Caps specifically indicated that a normal swing entry was better for them, even though other teams seemed to fare better with a drop pass. I think my main dislike for the drop pass stems from how it seemingly burns seconds off the clock, and that it just seems so predictable, and that our PP was struggling and I kept seeing the drop pass. Had to blame something for our PP woes right? Obvious scapegoat was the drop pass, and of course Carlson's shit passes that kept jamming Ovi.
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: zerofox on Sunday March 31, 2019, 07:06:39 PM Eastern ---None of what happened yesterday was something I ever thought was going to happen. I thoroughly expected the Caps to shit the bed and Ovi to get shut down. I'm also pretty surprised that the Caps are somehow 4th in the standings. Well, more specifically, I expected the Caps to be a top 5 team going into the season, but when the season was halfway through and I saw how stupid Reirden was and how stupid some players were, I didn't think we'd end up anywhere near top 5.
I'm still hesitant to call us a good team though. I know we have an elite team on paper, but I still don't have faith in our coach, and I've seen too many of our supposed "good" players (like Kuzy, Carlson, Orlov, etc.) make too many stupid mistakes. Plus our PK and our PP with the dumbass drop pass suck.
--- End quote ---
Agree completely.
We can scrape wins together,go on streaks, be entertaining, and get stats but the stupid mistakes, one dimensional and inexcusable special teams performance make us far from a “good” team.
For the drop passes, meh, at least they can chase em down and look at it this way, it’s far better than than them trying to toe-drag and no-look pass through a team clogging the Neutral Zone.
Also, if done correctly, and you’re leading, drop-passes dumping does kill the clock a bit. Which is good because with only about 4, 5 at best skaters that can actually play man or quality zone D, we need all the help holding a lead we can get.
As for Reidon, I agree as well. He’s gonna be at a major disadvantage in the “chess game” against every coach in the division this year.
zerofox:
--- Quote from: DC_1908 on Sunday March 31, 2019, 10:46:25 PM Eastern ---
As for Reidon, I agree as well. He’s gonna be at a major disadvantage in the “chess game” against every coach in the division this year.
--- End quote ---
Yeah exactly. In my opinion Reirden is the number 1 reason why I don't think we've really got much of a chance in the playoffs. It really is a chess match and I think TR is still playing checkers.
There are definitely reasons why we could repeat, such as:
1) Similar roster as the Cup winning team last year. Yeah we lost Beags which was huge in terms of faceoffs, PK, and general hard hat work ethic. We lost Gruby, which quite frankly hopefully won't be relevant in the playoffs. But Hagelin and Jensen were pretty solid additions.
2) Sometimes we have these statement games and play well against good teams.
3) We are still studs offensively. We're the 5th highest scoring team in the league, and we have pretty solid scoring depth with our entire top 6 scoring 20+ and also Conno.
4) The team seemed to have "figured it out" last year. They know the secret formula (the trap), they know the mindset and the work ethic you have to have to win the Cup. They were mentally resilient enough to come back from 2-0 and 3-2 series deficits and come back from losing key players at different times. I think that's pretty huge.
But there are plenty of reasons why I don't think we will repeat:
1) TR is a checkers player in a chess player's world.
2) PP is too easily stymied. Teams can clog and too easily force someone like Kuzy to stupidly try to dance through 4 defenders. We're too predictable and Ovi is the only real weapon anyone respects.
3) PK is garbage
4) Last year we just straight up had a perfect storm in our favor. Ovechkin continued his brilliance. Kuzy really turned it on. Guys like Backy and Oshie were no slouches either. Holtby got his shit together after struggling all season. Guys like DSP, Conno, Wilson, Eller gave us additional depth and even scored huge goals / really stepped it up in the playoffs (DSP scored 7 in playoffs after scoring 7 all season). To have this perfect storm again would be asking a lot from the hockey gods.
PUCKNRUSH:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Sunday March 31, 2019, 08:12:59 PM Eastern ---
Thing is, Zero, lots of teams use the slingshot/dropback pass. Ar they all stupid? There is a point to it - try to back off the defense and come through the neutral zone to enter the o-zone with speed. Lots of times it doesn't work, but it is what it is.
I think you'd find that, if you looked at other teams as closely as you look at ours, a lot of their players, including some of their best ones, make stupid mistakes as well. Watch other teams. Lots of them sling the puck "mindlessly" around the boards in the defensive zone, just as we do. It's SOP in the league, if you don't have a clear exit from the d-zone, when in doubt keep the puck along the boards, where there is less immediate threat. We steal pucks in those circumstances just as often as other teams steal it from us. Other teams also cough up the puck in more dangerous areas in the d-zone, just as we do. I don't deny that we make mistakes, sometimes egregious ones. I just think you remember ours more than you remember those of other teams, specifically our opponents. Hockey is very much a game of forced and unforced errors - it's the nature of the game.
--- End quote ---
Good subject and good post Black!
I do like Zeros heart felt passion for the Caps! Reading some of Zeros more heated posts, helps to calm down some of my urges to “post when pissed”! LOL!
There is a lot of frustration with the Caps, expressed by many here on the board, in a myriad of ways, and differing degrees, as you already know!
For me personally, I think I have essentially TWO different modes, when I process all things Caps!
One view is comparative, in nature, contrasting the Caps performance against the backdrop of all other NHL teams, as you have pointed out in your post.
This view helps me to place, and generally rank their performance, as a TEAM! It contains more universality, with a wider general view. All good!!
The other perspective is a more personal one. Derived from many years of watching and studying the team, and their INDVIDUAL players. It’s a closer, more emotionally involved, perspective. It’s a relationship, where you want to know the players names, and gather more specifics on the team. One the team promotes, and wants the fans to have, obviously.
I post from both perspectives, as do many here. We witness posts that are mostly analysis, and other posts that are mostly emotional venting, high and low, and everything in between. (Again, I’m sure you know this already. Not trying to insult your intelligence, at all).
In fact, it’s because you strike me as a quite intelligent person, with your posts, and seem less emotional, and more level headed, than average, that I wanted to respond.
To say that the Caps PP slingshot, is also practiced by many other teams, league wide, with varying degrees of success or failure, is absolutely CORRECT. I totally agree with you! The same goes with the comments about slinging pucks mindlessly, and all teams making mistakes! ALL TRUE!!
What I wanted to ask was about the INTENT of your comparisons. What are you attempting to address?
I wasn’t quite sure, but it sounded like trying to justify bad play, mistakes, errors, etc, in order to allow oneself to feel better about it, or end with a “see, it’s not so bad, it’s everywhere”, type of retort.
If so, then I would disagree with the intention, but not the facts of the points!
I’ll use a parents children as an example, for my point!
A parents child has failing grades, in 4th grade elementary school. So do 15 other kids in the same classroom, which contains 35 children total!
Hard to believe that the intent of your point would be for the parents to accept their child’s failing grades, because “lots of other”, kids in the class have failing grades!
It’s like “lots of other teams do it”, so just accept it and try not to be so frustrated about it.
Yes, the Slingshot can be an effective entrance tactic on the PP, no doubt. And ALL teams make
plenty of mistakes. Just because it’s commonplace to commit errors, doesn’t mean that you excuse them, because it’s done everywhere else. Especially when it’s YOUR personal team! Of course, there would be a different emotion level!! If Backstrom gets hurt, its more significant to a Caps fan, than if finding out that Stamkos was injured!
Your thought track may help to put things RELATIVE, factually, but also risks flirting with the ever-growing acceptance of sub par performance, which is all too prevalent in both sports and life in general, IMHO! (That’s a whole different philosophical debate)! LOL
If I’ve misinterpreted your thoughts, then please forgive me, Black. Absolutely NOT my intent to challenge you negatively, as you seem to be a good man! Mainly, I was a bit confused by your point, but also thought it an excellent subject for the board, AND also your good-natured intent with Zero.👍
Respect, and God Bless,
Rush
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