Talk about Capitals hockey & more! > Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion
GDT#24 Capitals @ Islanders 7:00 p.m. Mon Nov 26, 2018 NBCSWA+, SN, MSG+
Maacoshark:
--- Quote from: DC_1908 on Wednesday November 28, 2018, 08:23:15 PM Eastern ---Yep, i think it was goalie coach that developed it. But Beagle is a great example: when the opposing goalie saw Beagle on the ice, the stat would tell him not to expect high shot volumes, completely disregarding that he is a primary defensive player that shouldn’t necessarily have high offensive zone percentage or shot volumes, so from that point of view, his Corsi shouldn’t be high.
But that doesn’t make for good stat-tainment
--- End quote ---
Some people use Corsi as a defensive stat. Others as a possession stat. It isnt really either. Its not even about quality of scoring chances. Its all about quantity of shots.
PUCKNRUSH:
--- Quote from: Maacoshark on Wednesday November 28, 2018, 07:29:19 AM Eastern --- You are right into your corsi stats. Worst stat in hockey and coaches and players will tell you that.
--- End quote ---
Yes sir!
Way too much emphasis placed on the +/- stat! Simply too many variables affect the number, to be a valuable indicator.
You and I, Maaco, have both been fans of Stephenson! He is an excellent contrast to hold up against Burakovsky.
Both guys, currently, are not doing much to get noticed, which is made worse by a few of the guys who ARE drawing positive attention to themselves!
For me, the difference between Stephenson and Bura, is that Stephensons short negative history, still earns him some patience, and a reasonable expectation of hope that he will turn it around!
Unlike Bura, he hasn’t had the numerous, and disappointing, reset cycles that are on the verge of the definition for insanity!
I’m fairly willing to extend some grace period to Stephenson, as he, and the coaches, figure out his role, during this rather complicated assessment time, for the Caps, as they move through that critical 25 game mark, in the season.!
I truly hope the best for him!
Rush
PUCKNRUSH:
--- Quote from: DC_1908 on Wednesday November 28, 2018, 08:23:15 PM Eastern ---Yep, i think it was goalie coach that developed it. But Beagle is a great example: when the opposing goalie saw Beagle on the ice, the stat would tell him not to expect high shot volumes, completely disregarding that he is a primary defensive player that shouldn’t necessarily have high offensive zone percentage or shot volumes, so from that point of view, his Corsi shouldn’t be high.
But that doesn’t make for good stat-tainment
--- End quote ---
Hey DC!
You’re correct. It was a goalie coach, I believe, for the Sabres. His last name was Corsi. (I don’t remember his first name)!
When I first joined the old board, and saw some of you veterans whipping out analytics, I went and got a basic hockey analytics book! It was extremely informative, but also had way too much analysis for my blood, so I didn’t read the whole thing, just the parts that I found relative, and interestingly informative, for what I like about the game! I’m certainly NO EXPERT, on analytics, at all!
The original Corsi stat was for team analysis of puck possession! Using shots for, AND shots against, as an overall indicator for puck possession time! It includes shots on goal, (SOG), missed shots, and blocked shots, both FOR and AGAINST! The idea being that if your team had a higher total shots number, than your opponent, it was a good indicator that you had more puck possession time! Again, it was a team stat!
The now, more famous +/- Corsi stat, is for INDIVIDUAL players, and can be for Goals For/Goals Against, when THAT PLAYER is on the ice! You can also add in SOG, Bks, Ms, both for and against, when that player is on the ice, for another Corsi-type stat! These are all assumed at even strength, 5 on 5.
When you say, Corsi-type stat, it refers to the concept of almost any hockey stat, where the comparison is any measurable team statistic, relative to when that player is on the ice! You can even compare player to player, and for me, some can get to the point of absurd!
However, a good example would be, what is the teams S%, (shooting percentage), when, say, Orlov is on the ice? OR when Orlov is NOT on the ice! OR the OPPONENTS S%, with Orlov, on or off the ice?
Another could be, comparing a teams giveaway/takeaway ratio, when a given player is on the ice, versus, off the ice!
The endless combinations can go on to infinity! ( that’s why I didn’t finish the book ), LOL.
Rush
Maacoshark:
Sorry Rush but the corsi stat is by far the worst stat in hockey. Its used as an individual stat even though it is actually a 5 on 5 stat. It isnt a possession stat. Not even close. In fact a good possession team might have a lower corsi because they would rather hang onto the puck than throw low percentage shots towards the net. A lot of coaches feel that throwing a low percentage shot toward the net is more often than not just a change in possession or a turnover. I agree with that. If there is nothing there then why throw a low percentage shot towards the net. Corsi just isnt an actual possession stat.
In recent years a couple of the better corsi teams were Montreal and Carolina. But neither were very good teams. You may remember the Caps corsi was one of the worst. The stat is useless.
The plus/minus stat can be deceiving as well but at least it is straight forward. I think one thing that might help the stat a bit is if empty net goals weren't included.
Mickstix:
Uh oh! Gather round kids, I think we're getting ready to witness another episode of "were on the same page, but lets argue anyway" :wackysmile: :uh-huh: :rofl:
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