Author Topic: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)  (Read 8030 times)

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Online Mickstix

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Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 12:47:50 PM Eastern »

Schmidt claims his innocence.. VGN stands by him!! Not that I care, but here's the story...


https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2018/09/02/nate-schmidt-suspended-20-games-for-performance-enhancing-substances/

Maacoshark

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #1 on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 12:54:12 PM Eastern »
Schmidt claims his innocence.. VGN stands by him!! Not that I care, but here's the story...


https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2018/09/02/nate-schmidt-suspended-20-games-for-performance-enhancing-substances/
   I was just going to post this. I just heard about this 15 minutes ago. I'm totally shocked. Schmidt is denying that he used PEDs but for the league to hand out a 20 game suspension they must have some pretty strong evidence.

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #2 on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 01:52:21 PM Eastern »
yeah, this is bullshit.  The NHL dies all the shit completely subjectively with little to rationaliy or logic.


It could have been anything from GNC Ceratine, to Sudafed, to a cup of coffee with one to many espresso shots . . . but just looking at him, you can tell Nate isn’t at the end of a third cycle of Anderol.


It is far more plausible for this (not eligble for appeal) event to be a PR stunt by the NHL than Nate Schmidt speed balling heroine and roids the morning of a test.


I hope Nate lawyers up and goes on the attack

Maacoshark

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #3 on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 02:55:04 PM Eastern »
     I havent heard what substance he tested positive for. If its something stupid like what happened to Backstrom in the Olympics I'll be pretty pissed off.
   For a 20 game suspension it would have to be serious. I havent heard whether or not Schmidt intends on appealing. If he insists that he isn't guilty then he can't accept the suspension. If he accepts the suspension I would assume he is guilty.
    PEDs in sports is a very touchy subject. I believe there is a lot more use of PEDs than we know about. I'm sure alot of positive tests are hidden. How do they decide who they are going to make an example of?

Offline 4 Caps

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #4 on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 03:43:06 PM Eastern »
Very shocking and disappointing news.  I don’t know what to think.  It is hard to believe the NHL would hand down a 20 game suspension if they believed he didn’t know he had ingested the substance. 

Offline PUCKNRUSH

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #5 on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 10:36:02 PM Eastern »
Very shocking and disappointing news.  I don’t know what to think.  It is hard to believe the NHL would hand down a 20 game suspension if they believed he didn’t know he had ingested the substance.
I was shocked, as well, guys!
In all of the media I ever saw on him, when he was here, he came off as a fun, hard working, but kind of easy going, jokester, more naive and “kid-like” in nature, which makes it all the harder to believe what has happened!
In this day and age, where it becomes ever more difficult to be shocked at anything in the news, sports or otherwise, I am still surprised at this one!
I find Schmittys personal comments, and reactions, to be plausibly truthful, and in-line, with what I would expect from his more naive nature. He seems genuinely shocked, expressing his disappointment, and even expressing respect for the NHL’s PED testing system! Because of this, I’m holding off on judgement, for now.
There are a few questions I have first.
1) What was the substance?
2) Schmitty claims his experts say “7 billionths of a milligram” of this substance. The big question for me then, is, of any other nhl players suspended for this substance, what were those players levels, by comparison?
3) For any other athletes that use this substance for enhancement purposes, what is considered to be a “therapeutically effective dosage” for enhancement, by the medical community?


Like 4Caps says though, hard to believe that such a harsh suspension would be given! Especially to a first timer! Also hard to believe that NHL would not know the standards pertaining to this substance!
Tough call for me fellas!  Hopefully we’ll get some more detail soon 


Rush

Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

Maacoshark

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #6 on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 11:05:33 PM Eastern »
    I dont think they have said what drug he tested positive for. Apparently 20 games in mandatory for a positive text for a first time offence. So few players have tested positive, it leads me to believe that the NHL is fairly lenient. The league must have felt this was a serious offense. I have heard that he has already appealed. It would be nice if they gave us more information.

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #7 on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 11:32:32 PM Eastern »
There are quite a few legit over the counter drugs that we all use which are banned in sports, Asthmatic and allergy related. There are also a lot of things that are treated with minor doses of steroids that will make you fail a sports blood test. But a professional team/athlete should be aware of them. Should be, but aren't always.
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Offline PUCKNRUSH

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #8 on: Sunday September 02, 2018, 11:49:52 PM Eastern »
    I dont think they have said what drug he tested positive for. Apparently 20 games in mandatory for a positive text for a first time offence. So few players have tested positive, it leads me to believe that the NHL is fairly lenient. The league must have felt this was a serious offense. I have heard that he has already appealed. It would be nice if they gave us more information.
You’re right Maaco. The NHL hasn’t said what substance. Funny thing though, Schmidt hasn’t said either! I got the impression from the NBCSW article here, (that’s our local NBC Sports Washington app), that it was at an APPEAL already, that Schmitty brought his “experts”, also with an additional hair test that showed no intentional use, (according to Schmittys personal quote).
I’m not able to provide a link to the article. Very similar to RMNB article. But maybe I can copy it to here:


By J.J. Regan[/size][/color][/color]Sep 2, 2018, 4:01 PM EDT[/font][/color]
Former Capital Nate Schmidt suspended 20 games for violating NHL's PED policyFormer Capitals defenseman Nate Schmidt has been suspended 20 games without pay for violating the terms of the NHL/NHLPA Performacing Enhancing Substances Program, the league announced Sunday.
Schmidt, who was selected by the Vegas Golden Knights in the 2017 expansion draft, will not be eligible to play until Nov. 18 when Vegas plays the Edmonton Oilers. In addition, he will not be able to play in the preseason, though he is allowed to participate in training camp.
The exact substance in which Schmidt tested positive for was not released.
In the wake of the news of the suspension, Schmidt strongly denied any wrongdoing in a statement released on the Golden Knights' website.I am extremely disappointed to learn that I have been suspended for a violation of the NHL/ NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program. The fact that I'm issuing this statement is surreal to me as I have only used supplements provided by my NHL team and I have always been extremely careful about what I put into my body. Throughout my playing career I have been tested numerous times, including twice last season, and I have never before tested positive. It was utterly shocking to be informed that I tested positive for a microscopic amount of a tainted substance. Not only did I not intentionally take a banned substance, I could not have received any performance enhancement benefit from the trace amount that inadvertently got into my system at a level that was far too small to have any effect. This low amount was consistent with environmental contamination that I could not possibly have prevented.
One of the experts in environmental contamination who testified on my behalf at the Appeal hearing described the amount of the substance found in my system - 7 billionths of a milligram/mL - as the equivalent of a pinch of salt in an Olympic-sized swimming pool. Another expert analyzed a sample of my hair and concluded there was no evidence of intentional use. The Vegas Golden Knights track players' strength and performance metrics and my results have remained constant over the past year.
While I support having a strong Performance Enhancing Substances Program in place for our sport, it is difficult to accept this suspension. I understand that I will miss these games, but I do not agree with the suspension and I will not accept being labelled a cheater.
I have worked my whole life to become an NHL player, and I'm extremely proud to be a player in the NHL. I have never cut corners in order to achieve this goal. I am grateful for the support of the entire Golden Knights organization and I can't put into words how disappointed I am that I will not be on the ice at the beginning of the season to help my teammates work towards another Stanley Cup run.
I will make no further comment on this matter at this time.Vegas also issued a statement in support of Schmidt.We were notified that the NHL has suspended Nate Schmidt for violating the terms of the NHL/NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program. While we respect the NHL/NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program and are committed to its success, we strongly disagree with the suspension. We firmly believe that the presence of a trace of the banned substance was accidental and unintentional. Based on our conversations with Nate, analysis from independent medical experts and sworn testimony from the parties involved, we believe it is clear Nate was not able to reasonably ascertain how the substance entered his body.
Nate is an honest person with high moral character and great integrity. We will stand by him and support him during this time.Schmidt played an integral role in Vegas' surprising run to the Stanley Cup Final in the team's inaugural season. He led the team in ice-time per game in both the regular season and the playoffs. He was also second among the team's defensemen in points with 36 (5 goals, 31 assists).


Hey whaddya know, it worked!😁😁


Rush



Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #9 on: Monday September 03, 2018, 12:06:45 AM Eastern »
I find it rather odd that it happened this time of year, makes me think he took some OTC allergy/flu meds and wasn't aware of whatever he tested positive for was banned. If the amount he tested positive for is accurate, that would definitely be environmental contamination. That is a ridiculously minute amount.

and the automatic appeal I believe is part of the CBA
Knowledge is knowing that the Tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is knowing that you shouldn't include it in a Fruit Salad; Philosophy is wondering if a Bloody Mary counts as smoothie

"Oh bother" said Poo, as he chambered another round

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #10 on: Monday September 03, 2018, 09:00:43 AM Eastern »
I find it rather odd that it happened this time of year, makes me think he took some OTC allergy/flu meds and wasn't aware of whatever he tested positive for was banned. If the amount he tested positive for is accurate, that would definitely be environmental contamination. That is a ridiculously minute amount.

and the automatic appeal I believe is part of the CBA
yep, this whole thing is entirely to fishy.  One player out of the all the NHL tests positive for a billionth of a percent for an undisclosed substance in once?  And this player being the most popular on a team that the league was heavily scrutinized for, also while there hasn’t been a big suspension from this policy, oh and look what else started this weekend?


From the info released, Nate’s lawyers should have everything they need to wipe the floor with the NHL.  What the league will do is stick and relay on the CBA as that is their only case in this.




Offline DC_1908

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #11 on: Monday September 03, 2018, 09:12:03 AM Eastern »

Maacoshark

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #12 on: Monday September 03, 2018, 01:08:53 PM Eastern »
    You make it sound like a conspiracy. I dont believe that at all. We really dont have enough information. Schmidt says it was a minute amount. The league hasn't said what the amount was or what the substance was. Considering the NHL has suspended so few players for PEDs, they must feel that this is a serious offense.

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #13 on: Monday September 03, 2018, 03:40:46 PM Eastern »
    You make it sound like a conspiracy. I dont believe that at all. We really dont have enough information. Schmidt says it was a minute amount. The league hasn't said what the amount was or what the substance was. Considering the NHL has suspended so few players for PEDs, they must feel that this is a serious offense.
Fair enough, but I don’t mean the be like the “we didn’t really land on the moon”,”the earth is flat”, or the government put mind control potion in the flu-shots . .


The NHL has the tendencies lto exploit media opportunities, particularly when it make the league “look good”, and this is a golden (pun intended) opportunity.


We’ll see how the NHL responds, how the NHLPA works with Natey8 and what what the lawyers can or need to do.  Either way, for abnormal circumstances and occurrences like this, the league & NHLPA should step up and work this out with the contract so environmental contaminantiton will not throw off a test.


Or Gary can throw his hands up and say “this is the contract”, which I will bet he does


Maacoshark

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #14 on: Monday September 03, 2018, 05:01:27 PM Eastern »
Fair enough, but I don’t mean the be like the “we didn’t really land on the moon”,”the earth is flat”, or the government put mind control potion in the flu-shots . .


The NHL has the tendencies lto exploit media opportunities, particularly when it make the league “look good”, and this is a golden (pun intended) opportunity.


We’ll see how the NHL responds, how the NHLPA works with Natey8 and what what the lawyers can or need to do.  Either way, for abnormal circumstances and occurrences like this, the league & NHLPA should step up and work this out with the contract so environmental contaminantiton will not throw off a test.


Or Gary can throw his hands up and say “this is the contract”, which I will bet he does
     My issue with the NHL testing procedure is that they have suspended so few players. I believe a lot more players are on PEDs than have been suspended. So is the testing procedure that easy to beat or are they covering up positive tests?
     BTW I do like a good conspiracy theory. Some of those conspiracy theories you mentioned could be possibly true. Who knows.

Offline Ozzies09tc

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday September 05, 2018, 08:23:40 PM Eastern »
2 games for head hunting


20 games for paralyzing a man (Bertuzzi)


20 games for 7billionths of a milligram of god knows what.


yeah...that's bettman's nhl alright
you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
because some watery tart threw a sword at you

Maacoshark

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday September 05, 2018, 09:57:31 PM Eastern »
2 games for head hunting


20 games for paralyzing a man (Bertuzzi)


20 games for 7billionths of a milligram of god knows what.


yeah...that's bettman's nhl alright
     I think the NHL should crack down harder on PEDs. They should be cracking down in a lot of things.

Offline Beaglefan2

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday September 05, 2018, 11:04:53 PM Eastern »
I told myself I would never, ever believe another athlete denial no matter how sincere they were and how strongly they fought back...... however, I totally believe Nate. My hope is that he can have a successful appeal and the NHL will somehow keep an open mind.

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #18 on: Thursday September 06, 2018, 05:29:55 AM Eastern »
2 games for head hunting


20 games for paralyzing a man (Bertuzzi)


20 games for 7billionths of a milligram of god knows what.


yeah...that's bettman's nhl alright
Agreed.  Bettman uses “suspensions” from his negotiations with CBAs, and the NHLPAs gullibility as a marketing gimmick, and the owners use it for there advantages.

For issues deemed to require “discipline”, one of the few ways to hit the players is with money.  So a player that makes 3m gets 36,585 a game a twenty game suspension costs the player 731,700. 


So when this is imposed on the player, why not still have him play at a rate of 27,662 a game?  Some fanicifal ideological notion of “punishment”?


Now for the owners, this notion can be used to appease fans for their team assuredly lossing quality and competitiveness to some extent, but they do have an opportunity in it.


Let’s say this player averaged 50points a year. Which is .61 a game., but with only 62 games that total will reduce to 38 for the year.  What’s gonna be easier on the cap next contact, a 50 point scorer or a 38pt?  Even if not in a contract year, this will effect the total value of the player during the length of his contract.

So, the “rules”, “processes”, & “decisions” are not only ridiculous, they are really just the result of poor negotiators that lead to marketing, salary cap, and other conical opportunities.  Gods move by the owners, lousy for the NHLPA

Offline PUCKNRUSH

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Re: Say it aint so, Nate!! (suspended for doping)
« Reply #19 on: Friday September 07, 2018, 12:26:33 AM Eastern »
Agreed.  Bettman uses “suspensions” from his negotiations with CBAs, and the NHLPAs gullibility as a marketing gimmick, and the owners use it for there advantages.

For issues deemed to require “discipline”, one of the few ways to hit the players is with money.  So a player that makes 3m gets 36,585 a game a twenty game suspension costs the player 731,700. 


So when this is imposed on the player, why not still have him play at a rate of 27,662 a game?  Some fanicifal ideological notion of “punishment”?


Now for the owners, this notion can be used to appease fans for their team assuredly lossing quality and competitiveness to some extent, but they do have an opportunity in it.


Let’s say this player averaged 50points a year. Which is .61 a game., but with only 62 games that total will reduce to 38 for the year.  What’s gonna be easier on the cap next contact, a 50 point scorer or a 38pt?  Even if not in a contract year, this will effect the total value of the player during the length of his contract.

So, the “rules”, “processes”, & “decisions” are not only ridiculous, they are really just the result of poor negotiators that lead to marketing, salary cap, and other conical opportunities.  Gods move by the owners, lousy for the NHLPA


Hey DC! Pretty deep analysis, there, buddy! (Wouldn’t expect any less, coming from you).
Your brain, and the built-in sequencer on my studio synthesizer, share some kinda commonality!! I just can’t quite put my finger on it yet! LOL (props to ya).  This is the kind of conversation we should have over a couple of cigars in “the lounge”!  Of course, alcohol is mandatory, as well!👍


Between Ozzie’s good post, and your expansion on it,  it got me thinking a little bit about suspensions and discipline and money, and some light-hearted pokes at some “rule change” possibilities! (Ok, add in some off season boredom too)!!


So, if a Player that is suspended for a number of games, misses those number of games, and doesn’t get paid, of course, then what is suffered by the player as punishment? It sounds more tit for tat, and non-punishing to me! He doesn’t play/He doesn’t get paid.......SIMPLE!


Hell, for half of these NHL guys, that’s just a little mid-season vacay! How about making a rule that they MUST PLAY in those suspension games....GRATIS!! And as a deterrent to any bad attitude arising from the player, during this “freebie” time, any penalty he receives carries DOUBLE MINUTES, OR, are all considered MAJORS, OR, are both dbl. minutes AND majors! Coach would have to be required to play the guy, for at least half of his average TOI, otherwise head coach may simply sit him on bench!(Just some summer doldrums shit to consider)! LOL


I say, as an old schooler, of course, that there’s no way you could truly implement any of this stuff with these progressively softer suspension rules nowadays! But imagine the repressed “heat” that would’ve built up in the minds of guys like Probert or Berube, after having to hold their tempers for a few “freebie” games, back in the day!!  The next game or two, for them, after the suspensions.....well, now THAT would make for some truly gritty-ass hockey!!😂. (Compare that to your “entertainment dollar” hockey, that you’ve mentioned in the recent past, just a time or two)!!🤣😂
I know bro, that’s another cigar conversation!!👍


Hopefully sooner than later, DC!


Rush









Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”