Author Topic: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan  (Read 15013 times)

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Offline zerofox

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Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 10:19:10 AM Eastern »
I know some people here may not like GMBM, but I've been quite pleased with his work thus far. I feel like he's done a much better job at addressing holes in our roster. Even if we had not won the Cup, I still would have giving GMBM props for some of the moves he's made.


1) Signing Niskanen and Orpik - Yes these were deals with too much term and too much salary (especially for Orpik), but you can't deny that one glaring hole we had when McPhee left was on defense. MacLellan instantly snagged up two veteran defensemen in the FA market to help bolster our defense.


2) Trading for TJ Oshie - Great trade in my opinion. We got rid of a mediocre bottom 6 player (Brouwer) who was being used in a top 6 fashion, and exchanged him for a legit top 6 winger, which was another hole we needed to fill.


3) Signing Justin Williams - Sure we didn't win the Cup with Williams on our team, but he still provided us with a solid top 6 forward and solid veteran presence. He put in a few good years for us, and IMO this is a good move regardless of whether or not you win the Cup with him.


4) Dumping Brooks Laich - This contract was killing us. We had to give up Connor Carrick and a decent draft pick for it, but dumping this anchor of a contract was another big boost for us.


5) Trading for Lars Eller - We only lost a couple of 2nd round picks for up, but he was a pretty decent pick up. He's provided our 3rd line with a solid C, and he's also shown recently that he can step up on occasion as well.


6) Trading for Kevin Shattenkirk - I know, we didn't win the Cup despite this "win now" trade. But I still do give GMBM props for having the balls to pull this off. We had an already dominant regular season team and we tried to go over the hump with a blockbuster move. I would honestly make a trade like this 9/10 times.


7) Trading for Michal Kempny - He may not be the best defenseman, but he helped solidify our defense when we were struggling with a bunch of youngsters. He also performed well enough where I hope he's back next season.


8) Dumping Brooks Orpik - I was totally on board with this signing way back. Even though the term and dollars were too much, I felt like we absolutely needed the veteran defensive presence. However, Brooks Orpik at age 33-35 or whatever is different from Brooks Orpik at age 36-37+. I'm glad we were able to clear this cap hit away




At the end of the day, no one can deny that we won a Cup with MacLellan, that he's addressed glaring holes more aggressively than McPhee (for instance, McPhee was willing to let Brooks fucking Laich be our 2C for YEARS, whereas MacLellan shored up our defense big time as his first move as GM), and he's also made another moves that have truly bolstered our roster and given us that "win now" opportunity. I never felt like that with McPhee. I always felt like McPhee would look for middle of the road players for cheap, and they rarely panned out. I'm happy to have BMac on our side.

Offline 4 Caps

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #1 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 10:36:36 AM Eastern »
Zerofox, I agree completely with your assessment of MacLellan.  I think he has done a terrific job and should be given a lot of the credit for the team winning the Cup.  He sees the holes that need to be filled and goes out and gets the players needed to fill them.  He has had to make some difficult decisions but isn’t afraid to make them.  I have complete trust in BMac, he has a great background.  He played 10 years in the NHL and won a Stanley Cup with Calgary.  After his career ended he went into the business world but then his good friend George McPhee got him back into hockey and he became a scout for the Capitals and he eventually became the Assistant General Manager and now General Manager.  He has come up through the ranks and I think his experience really helps him unlike some of these young whippersnappers who think they know everything based on analytics.  The Pheonix GM is not even 30 years old. 

Offline KitFisto

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #2 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 10:48:00 AM Eastern »
I've been happy too. Some still praise McPhail while he did squat to put this team over the top in 16 years. BM built a squad that won a cup in 4 years and people think he sucks. Go figure....Sure, some of McPhee's core pieces are still here, but he couldn't get the right mix. BM did it.

Offline BlackIce

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #3 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 10:55:30 AM Eastern »
I've been happy too. Some still praise McPhail while he did squat to put this team over the top in 16 years. BM built a squad that won a cup in 4 years and people think he sucks. Go figure....Sure, some of McPhee's core pieces are still here, but he couldn't get the right mix. BM did it.




Well, those of you happy with GMBM, good for you.  And those who aren't, you'd better learn to live with it.  Because if GMGM lasted 15 years with this organization, how long do you think MacLellan will last, now that he's won a Cup?  Not to mention, I think he handles the media extremely well, and they like him because he gives real information.  That has cascading effects on MacLellan's shelf life, because the media will portray him positively as a result, the fan base as a whole will be satisfied if the storylines about the team are positive, and if fans are happy they tend to spend money, which makes Ted Leonsis VERY happy.

Offline waynerivers

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #4 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 11:44:22 AM Eastern »
All I know is that Grubauer AND Orpik for a 2nd round pick sucks.  Grubauer for a 2nd rounder would suck.  Orpik led the entire league in the playoffs with a +17 in 20 games and brought a real physical presence.  As of now, they have none on the backline.  This is hardly an auspicious start to the post season whether they sign Carlson or not.  They better have some plans for adding a physical defenseman.

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #5 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 11:47:17 AM Eastern »
I know some people here may not like GMBM, but I've been quite pleased with his work thus far. I feel like he's done a much better job at addressing holes in our roster. Even if we had not won the Cup, I still would have giving GMBM props for some of the moves he's made.


1) Signing Niskanen and Orpik - Yes these were deals with too much term and too much salary (especially for Orpik), but you can't deny that one glaring hole we had when McPhee left was on defense. MacLellan instantly snagged up two veteran defensemen in the FA market to help bolster our defense.


2) Trading for TJ Oshie - Great trade in my opinion. We got rid of a mediocre bottom 6 player (Brouwer) who was being used in a top 6 fashion, and exchanged him for a legit top 6 winger, which was another hole we needed to fill.


3) Signing Justin Williams - Sure we didn't win the Cup with Williams on our team, but he still provided us with a solid top 6 forward and solid veteran presence. He put in a few good years for us, and IMO this is a good move regardless of whether or not you win the Cup with him.


4) Dumping Brooks Laich - This contract was killing us. We had to give up Connor Carrick and a decent draft pick for it, but dumping this anchor of a contract was another big boost for us.


5) Trading for Lars Eller - We only lost a couple of 2nd round picks for up, but he was a pretty decent pick up. He's provided our 3rd line with a solid C, and he's also shown recently that he can step up on occasion as well.


6) Trading for Kevin Shattenkirk - I know, we didn't win the Cup despite this "win now" trade. But I still do give GMBM props for having the balls to pull this off. We had an already dominant regular season team and we tried to go over the hump with a blockbuster move. I would honestly make a trade like this 9/10 times.


7) Trading for Michal Kempny - He may not be the best defenseman, but he helped solidify our defense when we were struggling with a bunch of youngsters. He also performed well enough where I hope he's back next season.


 8) Dumping Brooks Orpik - I was totally on board with this signing way back. Even though the term and dollars were too much, I felt like we absolutely needed the veteran defensive presence. However, Brooks Orpik at age 33-35 or whatever is different from Brooks Orpik at age 36-37+. I'm glad we were able to clear this cap hit away




At the end of the day, no one can deny that we won a Cup with MacLellan, that he's addressed glaring holes more aggressively than McPhee (for instance, McPhee was willing to let Brooks fucking Laich be our 2C for YEARS, whereas MacLellan shored up our defense big time as his first move as GM), and he's also made another moves that have truly bolstered our roster and given us that "win now" opportunity. I never felt like that with McPhee. I always felt like McPhee would look for middle of the road players for cheap, and they rarely panned out. I'm happy to have BMac on our side.
People like him because he makes moves that Dickless wants with entertainment being the priority. 


The result is people who want entertainment swooning with man-crushes, and the zealots of The Church of Monumental regarding him as the Messiah that can walk on Red Kool-Aid.


Sure, he was the GM when we won “a” cup.  So his team won 16 our of 28 in 24 games, hate to wreck the drama but that’s really all it was.


Within the past three weeks, the zealots and others have all but forgotten the times where the same team that won 16-24, was absolutely god-awful, so bad there own local commentators called them out for the same reasons over and over again.  Then even in the playoffs this SAME TEAM looked like it couldn’t even of won the Fairfax Rec League Championship.


Monumental actually even warned us not to have high expectations, that this was a rebuild.  Hell they where even ready to fire/not renew the coach after the playoffs because they were sure as the rest of us that it would be a quick postseason and they needed a scapegoat.


Make NO mistake Dickless, GMBetaMale, and Monumental put out a team that even they didn’t have hopes for.  It was not some highly data driven lineup like The Pats do every year.  The roster had to do a complete 180 of their mentality and approach for god-sake.  The team that played the last 7 games, clearly was NOT the same team the 99 games before.


To credit this front office for building a cup winning team is just layman syllogistic logic through an objective lens that is devoid of data and correctly done analysis for entertainment and feelings.
 

Offline BlackIce

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #6 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 12:42:10 PM Eastern »
I would only comment that claims of analytic skill and extreme hyperbole don't mix very well.

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #7 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 02:19:48 PM Eastern »
"6) Trading for Kevin Shattenkirk - I know, we didn't win the Cup despite this "win now" trade. But I still do give GMBM props for having the balls to pull this off. We had an already dominant regular season team and we tried to go over the hump with a blockbuster move. I would honestly make a trade like this 9/10 times. "

Other than that, all worked out very well.

Maacoshark

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #8 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 02:33:27 PM Eastern »
"6) Trading for Kevin Shattenkirk - I know, we didn't win the Cup despite this "win now" trade. But I still do give GMBM props for having the balls to pull this off. We had an already dominant regular season team and we tried to go over the hump with a blockbuster move. I would honestly make a trade like this 9/10 times. "

Other than that, all worked out very well.
      I hated that fucking trade. There were rumors the Caps were going to trade for him a couple weeks before it happened. When I heard that I was pissed. I saw him play with the Blues and the guy was a fucking joke.

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #9 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 03:38:04 PM Eastern »
      I hated that fucking trade. There were rumors the Caps were going to trade for him a couple weeks before it happened. When I heard that I was pissed. I saw him play with the Blues and the guy was a fucking joke.
Yes, instead of improving the team, we've got exactly opposite result.

Offline zerofox

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #10 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 04:08:45 PM Eastern »
Yes, instead of improving the team, we've got exactly opposite result.


Do you dislike Shattenkirk or do you not like the idea of GMBM trying to grab the "best" rental asset out there before the trade deadline?


Just curious. Because I'm not saying I love Shattenkirk or that I think he's the best defenseman out there, but I definitely would aim to grab the best rental asset to put us over the top.

Offline Devise

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #11 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 04:38:55 PM Eastern »

Do you dislike Shattenkirk or do you not like the idea of GMBM trying to grab the "best" rental asset out there before the trade deadline?


Just curious. Because I'm not saying I love Shattenkirk or that I think he's the best defenseman out there, but I definitely would aim to grab the best rental asset to put us over the top.


That logic makes no sense, and is evidence as to why we sucked with Shattenkirk in the playoffs and why this year, without doing what your think we should in that aspect, we ended up winning.


Playoff success is about chemistry, not getting the best players available. Is there times you need to get the best players available? Yes. But look at even team drafting, all of the outlets were covering this before the draft last night. In years past, like a decade plus ago, you would have to draft BPA. Drafting for positional or team need, or character reasons was just so less common. That has changed.


Kempny ended up being a better fit for us than Shattenkirk, it's as simple as that. Shattenkirk may be a better player, but our team didn't need more players with the assets and weaknesses of a player that Shattenkirk brought. We already had Carlson, at the time and Orlov. We had enough risky defenders who may not be as steady in there own end. Kempny was the reverse of those players, who instead of being good offensively and okay defensively, he was good defensively and okay offensively. It ended up being just the comfort type of player to fill out our top four, and have them be a good top four for the playoffs.


This is the kind of stuff that DC is talking about though. How name recognition and perceived "value" automatically mean to some fans "better." Patrick Kane is better than TJ Oshie. But the Caps needed TJ Oshie far more than they need a player of Patrick Kane's ilk. Why? Because we needed a skill guy who played his heart out like Jay Beagle. We needed another on ice leader, to help change the mentality of this team. It's another case of why you can't just look at pure value or perceived quality of talent. It's about much more than that.


And it's the only area where I'm perfectly fine saying BMGM deserves credit when it comes to building this roster. For me it wasn't just that he began to fill holes that we had lacked. By shoring up the defense and prioritizing center depth. But I also think DC has a point when he suggests that it wasn't all built by this intention. The Shattenkirk deal going south seems to me more what BMGM was thinking, make big deals/trades and stick with your guns.


I think it just so happened, that the coaching staff's interest in certain players, as for sure BMGM wasn't making those decisions in a vaccum regarding Nisky, Orpik, Eller, DSP, Oshie. That the coaching staff and scouts acknowledged the tangible assets some of these players brought to the table. This season seemed to me like BMGM just kind of rolled with what he had, and due to circumstance that ended up surrounding our main core group with some of the best, hardest workers in the depth chart we were going to find. When you combine that with the burning desire of some of our core players, notably Ovi? It simply shocked teams. It's how you get the first Cup win in the bank.


So all in all I'd say BMGM probably doesn't deserve that much credit for everything. I think there is some smart moves he made, but I also think a bunch of his moves were kind of just "stepped" into as well. The only reason I have faith in our coaching staff is because I know how involved Rierden and co were with Trotz. But I think players and coaching staff deserve far more credit for this team than anyone else. Clearly BMGM didn't think Chandler Stephenson was an answer for us heading into the season, but the play of himself and the coaches for believing in him is a big reason he succeeded so well in the playoffs.


It's moments like this, where we could end up overpaying for Carlson and hamstringing our roster, and dealing with filling holes again now that BMGM really gets to be judged.

Maacoshark

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #12 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 06:38:05 PM Eastern »

Do you dislike Shattenkirk or do you not like the idea of GMBM trying to grab the "best" rental asset out there before the trade deadline?


Just curious. Because I'm not saying I love Shattenkirk or that I think he's the best defenseman out there, but I definitely would aim to grab the best rental asset to put us over the top.
   How was Shattenkirk the best rental for our team that year. The last thing we needed was another offensive defenceman that was far worse defensively than anyone we already had. He didnt improve our pp and the rest of his game is a liability. It was a bad trade for a rental player. It may have cost us a cup. Anyone that thought Shattenkirk was a good pickup didnt know how weak his game was.
   Management got too hung up on adding another offense only player on a team that was already pretty loaded offensively. We should have added a defensive player.

Offline alta

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #13 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 06:43:49 PM Eastern »
All I know is that Grubauer AND Orpik for a 2nd round pick sucks.  Grubauer for a 2nd rounder would suck.  Orpik led the entire league in the playoffs with a +17 in 20 games and brought a real physical presence.  As of now, they have none on the backline.  This is hardly an auspicious start to the post season whether they sign Carlson or not.  They better have some plans for adding a physical defenseman.


The Caps needed the cap space freed up. This wasn't a bad trade in that regard. Avs have put Orpik on waivers, maybe we can get him back on the cheap. Caps are gonna need his D for another year or two.


I know I said it last year. But rentals suck. They rarely work out, and last season, '16-'17, they had Shatty replace Schmitty. That wasn't an upgrade. It wasn't even an even swap.
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Offline DC_1908

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #14 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 07:15:20 PM Eastern »

Do you dislike Shattenkirk or do you not like the idea of GMBM trying to grab the "best" rental asset out there before the trade deadline?


Just curious. Because I'm not saying I love Shattenkirk or that I think he's the best defenseman out there, but I definitely would aim to grab the best rental asset to put us over the top.
So by best you mean “the most talked about and most popular free agent at the time”.  Because the hype for him in free agency was the peak  of Shattenkraps  career.
 

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #15 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 07:21:46 PM Eastern »
   How was Shattenkirk the best rental for our team that year. The last thing we needed was another offensive defenceman that was far worse defensively than anyone we already had. He didnt improve our pp and the rest of his game is a liability. It was a bad trade for a rental player. It may have cost us a cup. Anyone that thought Shattenkirk was a good pickup didnt know how weak his game was.
   Management got too hung up on adding another offense only player on a team that was already pretty loaded offensively. We should have added a defensive player.
Yes, that's how feel, too. Thanks for writing up!


Although I can admire GM's best intentions, but outcome was negative. I also think he learned from his mistakes. 

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #16 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 07:26:43 PM Eastern »
I will only comment that passive-agressive attempts to discredit data is the first indicator  the opposition can not defend, let alone beat your analysis.


The pattern is very easy to see


Offline KitFisto

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #17 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 09:02:17 PM Eastern »
I've never seen so much bitching and complaining from the fans of a team that just won a title in my life. Being happy you won means you're satisfied with a team who only cares about entertainment and not winning? Are you fucking kidding me? Yes, it took the Caps 13 seasons into Ovechkin's career to finally win it. Guess what? If McPhail was still here there would still be no cup because many of the players that helped get us there wouldn't fucking be here. Some of you folks wouldn't give them any credit if they won 5 straight cups.

The banner hasn't even gone up and some of you already pissed. It's fucking unbelievable.  You could be Blues or Leafs fans who haven't won in how long? You could be CBJ fans who've never won a single playoff series in 19 years. We just won the cup and you're still crying like we lost in the 1st round again. I think some of you WISH we had just so you cold be "right". FFS......

Offline Devise

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #18 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 09:14:34 PM Eastern »
I've never seen so much bitching and complaining from the fans of a team that just won a title in my life. Being happy you won means you're satisfied with a team who only cares about entertainment and not winning? Are you fucking kidding me? Yes, it took the Caps 13 seasons into Ovechkin's career to finally win it. Guess what? If McPhail was still here there would still be no cup because many of the players that helped get us there wouldn't fucking be here. Some of you folks wouldn't give them any credit if they won 5 straight cups.

The banner hasn't even gone up and some of you already pissed. It's fucking unbelievable.  You could be Blues or Leafs fans who haven't won in how long? You could be CBJ fans who've never won a single playoff series in 19 years. We just won the cup and you're still crying like we lost in the 1st round again. I think some of you WISH we had just so you cold be "right". FFS......


I don't see how you get that we are being "pissed". We aren't. We simply aren't viewing are team with rose colored glasses. We are looking at the turnover and situation we are in and trying to be reasonable with expectations for the future, and analyzing decisions made.


Having the opinion that management messed up letting Trotz go for example isn't being a bad fan or not celebrating and enjoying the Cup win. You shouldn't have to be "only love my team all the time" post a Cup win or be considered a traitor for being pissy.

Offline KitFisto

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Re: Honestly, I've been happy with MacLellan
« Reply #19 on: Saturday June 23, 2018, 09:20:59 PM Eastern »

I don't see how you get that we are being "pissed". We aren't. We simply aren't viewing are team with rose colored glasses. We are looking at the turnover and situation we are in and trying to be reasonable with expectations for the future, and analyzing decisions made.


Having the opinion that management messed up letting Trotz go for example isn't being a bad fan or not celebrating and enjoying the Cup win. You shouldn't have to be "only love my team all the time" post a Cup win or be considered a traitor for being pissy.


Have you ever seen me post? I'll never be accused of wearing rose colored glasses. My point is simply that WE WON so MAYBE management knows more than you seem to think they do. A GM who couldn't get it done gets praise while the one who won it gets criticized regularly. Clearly they must know SOMETHING right?