Talk about Capitals hockey & more! > Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion
Trotz resigned
justwincaps:
IMO the whole concept of a "coach-in-waiting" [Rierden] is a recipe for disaster. It didn't work for St Louis when they hired Roe to replace Hitchcock and it didn't work here.
Love Barry Trotz, but i guess the administration has a value it places of coaches and Trotz exceeded that value. I'm guessing GMBM figures Rierden can step in, has the respect of the players, and can keep the same system in place with little interruption that just won the Cup.
If Trotz can go get 5 x 5 from someone else, good on him. I hated seeing Hendricks leave a couple of years ago but Nashville [if I remember correctly] offered him 4 years at $2 million so I'm happy he got paid, even if it wasn't in DC. Same case with Alzner, I'm glad for him that Montreal overpaid him. The same will be the case with Beagle if he goes. The same with Carlson if he goes.
BlackIce:
--- Quote from: DC_1908 on Tuesday June 19, 2018, 11:55:28 AM Eastern ---First off, any coach can and should be able to be fired at anytime for any reason. But they didnt fire Trotz, they let him quit.
Now for sake of argument, lets just say that the Caps made counter offers etc. . . how does an NHL GM not outmaneuver the agents of a coach? Even if they had all the firepower? Business deals are not merely give and take, but misdirection, illusions, disguised 'poison-pills' and the likes to gain current and future advantage. If the result is a head coach leaving a team and area he loves after winning his first Cups for he and his agents to get paydays. . .is about all the proof you need to see that GMBetaMale was deystroyed and not able to crack Trotrz or his agents.
If that was the case, and his agents were being that unworkable, why "let" Trotz resign/ They do need to accept his resignation before ehe can resign? Why not delay that as long as possible to both find his replacement and keep him from getting another job at the same time, or at least threaten that in negotiations.
However, two weeks after winning a Cup by primarily coaching and the captain, and two weeks before Free Agency where several key players need resigned, . . . Monumental and BetaMale let themselves get railroaded and bullied into letting the coach walk. Looks like the Same Ol Caps where someone has to fuck something up and something has to go wrong .
Now Im not that attached to people or names, but were talking about a team that has had 5 coaches in 13 years that got out of the second once, a team that needed a philosophical and mental 180 to get past the second round, and team mixed with Hall of Famers and rookies just getting out off wining a Cup and partying all summer after their first (collective) Cup, . . .
this does not seem like a great time to change coaches for this group does it?
--- End quote ---
DC, it seems to me you're going off the deep end here.
(1) My betting is that it wasn't the GM behind the refusal to extend Trotz, it was Ted Leonsis. He may have asked McLellan "A few months ago we were prepared to let Trotz go after the season and hire a replacement [likely for lesser money if he's a first-time NHL coach.] Now that we have won the Cup, has the calculus changed so much that it's worth rehiring Trotz for several more years at a cost 3 or more times as much as what it would cost to bring in this new coach we were all fixated on a few months ago?" If GMBM said no or gave Leonsis a list of pluses and minuses in reply, Ted probably said, "Then let's go with the new guy." In short, I don't think the Caps got bullied at all. They made their decision and will stick by it, and they did it the honorable way, while looking him in the eye.
(2) Your comment about letting Trotz hanging while a new coach is being hired is disingenuous, and you know it. Honorable organizations don't work that way. They are upfront with people, especially people who have been demonstrable successes and have earned respect. Trotz and, more importantly, other coaches and their reps would know what is going on. Treating a valued employee that way is a sure prescription for earning the distrust of everyone else you might want to hire. Heck, the Caps might not be able to hire ANYONE of note to coach the team, even if they wanted to, if they pulled a stunt like that.
(3) Why is it the Caps that got the short end of the stick if Trotz felt obliged to leave "the team and area he loves?" Sounds as though Trotz didn't exactly draw a long straw either, if you look at it that way.
(4) Business is business. Always has been; always will be. My view here is just the opposite of yours. I don't think anybody was bullied, railroaded, or anything else. I think the Caps drew a line based on business principles, Trotz drew a line based on market principles, the lines didn't intersect, and the parties mutually decided to end the relationship and end it in a timely manner that was best for all concerned: The Caps, Trotz, Reirden, and anyone else outside who might be a coaching possibility (if there are any such people.)
(5) The one loose end that feels to me to be hanging in midair in all of this is the supposed comment by Trotz to Tortarella at the end of the Jackets series about "being gone." IF he was being lip-read accurately, it COULD be that Trotz had either already made a decision not to come back, or he knew that the organization was not open to renegotiating his contract at a level that he felt he had a right to command so he knew he would be forced out by circumstances. How that may have affected what has gone on in the past week and a half we will never know.
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Tuesday June 19, 2018, 01:44:05 PM Eastern ---
DC, it seems to me you're going off the deep end here.
(1) My betting is that it wasn't the GM behind the refusal to extend Trotz, it was Ted Leonsis. He may have asked McLellan "A few months ago we were prepared to let Trotz go after the season and hire a replacement [likely for lesser money if he's a first-time NHL coach.] Now that we have won the Cup, has the calculus changed so much that it's worth rehiring Trotz for several more years at a cost 3 or more times as much as what it would cost to bring in this new coach we were all fixated on a few months ago?" If GMBM said no or gave Leonsis a list of pluses and minuses in reply, Ted probably said, "Then let's go with the new guy." In short, I don't think the Caps got bullied at all. They made their decision and will stick by it, and they did it the honorable way, while looking him in the eye.
(2) Your comment about letting Trotz hanging while a new coach is being hired is disingenuous, and you know it. Honorable organizations don't work that way. They are upfront with people, especially people who have been demonstrable successes and have earned respect. Trotz and, more importantly, other coaches and their reps would know what is going on. Treating a valued employee that way is a sure prescription for earning the distrust of everyone else you might want to hire. Heck, the Caps might not be able to hire ANYONE of note to coach the team, even if they wanted to, if they pulled a stunt like that.
(3) Why is it the Caps that got the short end of the stick if Trotz felt obliged to leave "the team and area he loves?" Sounds as though Trotz didn't exactly draw a long straw either, if you look at it that way.
(4) Business is business. Always has been; always will be. My view here is just the opposite of yours. I don't think anybody was bullied, railroaded, or anything else. I think the Caps drew a line based on business principles, Trotz drew a line based on market principles, the lines didn't intersect, and the parties mutually decided to end the relationship and end it in a timely manner that was best for all concerned: The Caps, Trotz, Reirden, and anyone else outside who might be a coaching possibility (if there are any such people.)
(5) The one loose end that feels to me to be hanging in midair in all of this is the supposed comment by Trotz to Tortarella at the end of the Jackets series about "being gone." IF he was being lip-read accurately, it COULD be that Trotz had either already made a decision not to come back, or he knew that the organization was not open to renegotiating his contract at a level that he felt he had a right to command so he knew he would be forced out by circumstances. How that may have affected what has gone on in the past week and a half we will never know.
--- End quote ---
Apologies for not being clear, but of course the paychecks are signed by Ted and Monumental. I doubt BetaMale has much input on final decisions, but is just the “go between”.
And leaving him hanging would be smart, regardless of what some consider “dishonorable”, bush league etc. Leaving him hanging both screws Trotz, his agents, and the teams trying to poach him while we find a replacement build strength. Feelings are irrelevant.
Do you realize the data he takes with him if he goes to a team in the conference or division, particularly a contender? Why allow that when you can hold on and only accept it if he signs with a team in the west?
This isn’t me going off the deep end, this is just an insult to the orginization and them allowing it to happen and/or not retaliating, which is why shit like this keeps happening
.
Maacoshark:
Trotz was to become a free agent had they not won the Stanley cup. I honestly think that GMBM had decided long ago that Reirdon was going to be the coach next season. That's why they blocks teams from talking to him. There were going to just let Trotzs contract run out. They obviously didnt think they would win the cup. Winning the cup actually gave Trotz 2 more years. This while thing is making the Caps look like a mickey mouse organization.
newtoCapsparty:
Read all of the thoughtful posts re: this topic. I'll admit that the news took the wind out of my post-Stanley-Cup-happiness sails; I thought the coach would return and his return would make the inevitable loss of some of the players a bit easier to take. Now I'm just sad and preparing for repeat sad very soon when next year's roster firms up. (I hated it when we lost Alzner.)
My immediate reaction was to see the resignation as another example of a Washington sports owner messing up his own franchise (see Dan Snyder for example) with failed negotiations, not recognizing the real value of particular team members/coaches, etc. But this struck me as odd, because my sense has been that Leonsis is the anti-Dan Snyder...so now I don't know what to think. My hope now is that Trotz does retire--because I don't want to learn in a few weeks/months that he coaches for another team and his resignation was truly just another case of a Washington sports team owner who misread a situation--again.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version