Offseason starts

[canadiancapman]

First off, the reason we played kuznetsov against mcdavids line is because we wanted to force mcdavid to play in his own zone. You're taking a huge risk just trying to defend the whole game against him with the Beagle line creates a constant sit back and defend which will eventually bite you in the ass. The reason we won the cup is because we never played that way. We played smart defensively but were always looking to push the puck and attack given the opportunity. Sitting back and only playing d can only last so long against highly skilled players. We'll be fine without Beagle this year. My bet is that we go through the season with the team as is and let Stephenson try to be the 4th line center. At the trade deadline I feel like the best move would be picking up plekanic from Montreal because they will be sellers again and will be looking to move his 1 year contract. Not sure why people don't think we can go back to back. Our team is solid and we don't have any clear bad contracts since restructuring orpiks. This team knows how to win and is hungry to do it again. Ovie celebrated like none other has after winning it all and do you not think he'd love to do it every year for the rest of his career?

[KitFisto]

Reread you’re post, and your “I’m Done” thread,  and evaluate your complete 180 since you the team you gave up squeeked out one, just one, Cup. . .

“Happy” shouldn’t last more than a few hours, because there is ALWAYS things to improve on.


So yeah, you’re clearly the dramatic and emotional one, that’s gone so overboard all you’re objectivity has vanishied.  When the Caps go back to what I primarily criticize, more so
 augmented with their Cup high, you’ll be saying “it was just an illusion, this team will never change, I’m done last post”,    now that is what you call a fact.

I was objective enough to re evaluate my option based off results. You're a broken record despite results. You have zero objectivity. You hate this teams management so much that you'd whine at 3 cups in 6 years. You know one thing and one thing only.... Your way or the highway. Go be a Vegas fan and in 16 years when McPhee hasn't won there either maybe you'll see the light though I doubt it.

[Maacoshark]

Stereotypes are stereotypes because they are enough reasons for them to be.


But, as i said, it’s the style and mentality of a player, not where there born

    I know exactly what you mean. Maybe the terms Eurosoft or Eurotrash shouldnt be used anymore.
   You know I like the same style of players as you do. I also like to see highly skilled players but I prefer they play a complete game. Look at guys like Fedorov and Datsyuk. Sick skills and great defensively.

[DC_1908]

I was objective enough to re evaluate my option based off results. You're a broken record despite results. You have zero objectivity. You hate this teams management so much that you'd whine at 3 cups in 6 years. You know one thing and one thing only.... Your way or the highway. Go be a Vegas fan and in 16 years when McPhee hasn't won there either maybe you'll see the light though I doubt it.

No. .   you just followed a trend and now trying to attack those that are calling it out.   So much, you arent even listening to what I am saying, you’re just triggered that i’m speaking reason and not following the dramatic narrative that is the trend.


So, let me put it this:  the “have a chance to win a Cup” business philosophy has a 1/10 success rate since 2008.  Factor into that, the team that did had very low expevtions coining into the season, playoffs, and each round, and required most players performing above their threshold.


If this philosophy continues, there is a high percentage chance that it will be another 10years to win it again.


So is looking at just one banner gonna be enough?  If so, why? 

[Maacoshark]

No. .   you just followed a trend and now trying to attack those that are calling it out.   So much, you arent even listening to what I am saying, you’re just triggered that i’m speaking reason and not following the dramatic narrative that is the trend.


So, let me put it this:  the “have a chance to win a Cup” business philosophy has a 1/10 success rate since 2008.  Factor into that, the team that did had very low expevtions coining into the season, playoffs, and each round, and required most players performing above their threshold.


If this philosophy continues, there is a high percentage chance that it will be another 10years to win it again.


So is looking at just one banner gonna be enough?  If so, why?

    Not sure why expectations were so low for this team. I figured they would go through some growing pains with some new additions and some rookies. And the Caps did go through the growing pains throughout the regular season. I was always optimistic that this team would be a contender.
   People thought we lost too many players in last years offseason. Johansson, Williams, Winnick, Shattenkirk, Alzner and Schmidt. So what.
    The only decent player we lost was Schmidt.
Maybe getting rid of the dead weight was what we needed.

[KitFisto]

No. .   you just followed a trend and now trying to attack those that are calling it out.   So much, you arent even listening to what I am saying, you’re just triggered that i’m speaking reason and not following the dramatic narrative that is the trend.


So, let me put it this:  the “have a chance to win a Cup” business philosophy has a 1/10 success rate since 2008.  Factor into that, the team that did had very low expevtions coining into the season, playoffs, and each round, and required most players performing above their threshold.


If this philosophy continues, there is a high percentage chance that it will be another 10years to win it again.


So is looking at just one banner gonna be enough?  If so, why?

No one said one is enough. No one said I hope they only win one. What I'm saying is actually try being objective instead of being a broken record. They won showing as built they CAN and DID do it thus proving me and you WRONG. You're still of the mindset thay it was luck and can't happen again. You're not being objective AT ALL. You have blind hate for management and that's ALL you can or are willing to see.

[DC_1908]

No one said one is enough. No one said I hope they only win one. What I'm saying is actually try being objective instead of being a broken record. They won showing as built they CAN and DID do it thus proving me and you WRONG. You're still of the mindset thay it was luck and can't happen again. You're not being objective AT ALL. You have blind hate for management and that's ALL you can or are willing to see.

calling you on your out of control  emotion is the only thing I may sound like a broken record about.  Nothing you said is accurate. It’s just a distorted narrative made to villify me for pointing out rationally, for not jumping on a trend that is almost entirely emotional and submissive.



And for the record, syllogism at a high/basic level is typically not objective, and is primarily a marketing or debate tool against people who don’t know better.


.

[Maacoshark]

No one said one is enough. No one said I hope they only win one. What I'm saying is actually try being objective instead of being a broken record. They won showing as built they CAN and DID do it thus proving me and you WRONG. You're still of the mindset thay it was luck and can't happen again. You're not being objective AT ALL. You have blind hate for management and that's ALL you can or are willing to see.

    DC is a very negative Caps fan. We could win 2 or 3 more cups and he wouldn't be happy.
I think his heart is with the Red Wings. He praises their team even though the team should be in a complete rebuild mode. Almost all of their top players are over 30. Some are closer to 40. I dont see a lot of good young talent there.

[4 Caps]

I guestion whether DC is even a Caps fan, his heart has always been with the Red Wings.  I imagine people new to this board think he is a troll when they first read his posts. 

[alta]

I guestion whether DC is even a Caps fan, his heart has always been with the Red Wings.  I imagine people new to this board think he is a troll when they first read his posts.

meh, my first love was the Cubs. Wrigley was the first game my dad took me too. I've completely forsaken them for the Nats. But it was nice to see the Cubs finally win the pennant, repeat was ruined by Madden being an ass. I've got a good friend who cheers for the Nats, after he cheers for the Braves. I don't think less of him, but have questioned his sanity

[DC_1908]

I guestion whether DC is even a Caps fan, his heart has always been with the Red Wings.  I imagine people new to this board think he is a troll when they first read his posts.

My god, DC Derangement has begun . . . 😖

[KitFisto]

calling you on your out of control  emotion is the only thing I may sound like a broken record about.  Nothing you said is accurate. It’s just a distorted narrative made to villify me for pointing out rationally, for not jumping on a trend that is almost entirely emotional and submissive.



And for the record, syllogism at a high/basic level is typically not objective, and is primarily a marketing or debate tool against people who don’t know better.


.

You are utterly delusional. There is zero point in conversation with you if you honestly can't see what a broken record you are even after winning. I'll allow you to move on thinking you've "won" the discussion like you always seem to think you do. Everyone sees it, but you. Guess what that means? Yep, it's you.

[Maacoshark]

My god, DC Derangement has begun . . . 😖

      You were deranged long ago.

[DC_1908]

    DC is a very negative Caps fan. We could win 2 or 3 more cups and he wouldn't be happy.
I think his heart is with the Red Wings. He praises their team even though the team should be in a complete rebuild mode. Almost all of their top players are over 30. Some are closer to 40. I dont see a lot of good young talent there.

Having grown up 1/4 of the year outside of Detroit, and 3/4 of the year (way) outside of DC, so i’ve always been a fan of BOTH cities/areas teams.  Although I will admit it took me about 10 years to get over the 92 NFC championship game.


As for the Wings this year, I have “optimistic low expectations”, meaning it’s sometimes better for a team in this situation to not make the playoffs, but i’m “optimistic” that the team will develop the system, IQ, strength/cardio, and begin to regain the Wings mentality of “we’re going to win”. The similarities i am talking about is how both The Wings(or at least before Mr. I died) and The Caps have very strong and strict organizational business philosophies that have proved to create major issues.

In lieu of being a “broken record”, I’ll skip repaying  how The Caps “We have a chance” philosophy puts sales over championships and go on to The Wings.  Probably the greatest strength, and weakness of Mr. I was the hometown proud, Wimgs/Tigers family stance.  This did, and still does in some cases, created an environment that drew players, coaches and anyone to Detroit and/or want to stay.  This was carried on by the players, coaches, JLA staff, fans and city. Now this obviously, became highly effective up until their last Finals appearances (and what should of been two Cups).  The team was getting older, there was a bottle neck at GRG who had several players that would of been on any other teams roster), the draft picks were getting lower, the league and planet caught on to accounting methods  and getting young players outside the draft, Nick, Hank, Pavel, and Ozzie where all that was from a dynasty made up off all-time greats and hometown hero’s, they had to wear the away sweaters at home with the C and the A on the wrong side (sarcasm), it was clear to almost everyone that a youth movement to begin a rebuild/reboot was in order, and that it may of been to late.
But somewhere between Mr. I, Holland, and Babcock, a downward spiral started.  Including  keeping and resigning declining and/or plateauing players while keeping cheaper players in their 20s that most say are ready for the NHL  in the AHL until they’re 26, keeping a coach who not only did many players not get along with, but refused to change a system that was becoming figured out, which exasperated the likes of DanFucknCleary having a well paid career longer than two seasons . . .

But you get the point, you could see the demise coming for years, and now they didn’t alter/adapt/or redesign their philosophies and practices at a fast enough, effective enough, or large enough scale so a team that made the playoffs for 20+ seasons, made the final 4 times and the conference finals (a lot of) times, is now a team with 1-2 hall of famers, and couple all stars, almost a glorified AHL team that fans are happy if they just develop and improve next year.

A cause to the “DC_Derangement Syndrome” is I have seen  the Caps going down the same road for years. The Wings and other teams and business, where the value of the ideology out weighs the results.


 Will The Caps end up like The Wings are now in 10, 8, 3, 2 seasons? It’s impossible to know for sure, but the the signs and the data is there and it is foolish and naive to dismiss it.


The Wings have 11 Cups, 4* since 97, and had the longest playoff streak in modern major sports history, and I don’t know any fan who says “it’s ok, I have complete trust in Mr Holland, and since we won the Cup for the first time in 40 years, I can die happily”.   

Wings fans understand why the team is where it is now, and would be happy with steady improvement, it sure as hell doesn’t mean we like it, nor do Holland or even Mr. I (the man who almost single handedly saved the city, who recently died), get passes an excuses for this damn mess regardless of what they did in the past.

[DC_1908]

You are utterly delusional. There is zero point in conversation with you if you honestly can't see what a broken record you are even after winning. I'll allow you to move on thinking you've "won" the discussion like you always seem to think you do. Everyone sees it, but you. Guess what that means? Yep, it's you.

🤣 So, you resort to the cliche “double down” tactic, and try to discredit your opponent by repeating the narrative louder as so it will become true.  This is common and predictable when someone’s emotionaly based argument is based only on  opinion, based on a “fact”  derived from logic that was verified in Pavlov’s experiment with his dog thousands of years later.


All you've really said is a narrative that I’m some kind of lunatic-troll for not jumping on the trend.  Rather ironic since you were emotionally animated in you’re dislike and frustration. So when you realized you where at risk of being criticized, you hoped on the band wagon and found an “enemy” to attack thereby elevating your status and proving your “sincerity”. 




So, may I ask what you do for a living?

[Maacoshark]

Having grown up 1/4 of the year outside of Detroit, and 3/4 of the year (way) outside of DC, so i’ve always been a fan of BOTH cities/areas teams.  Although I will admit it took me about 10 years to get over the 92 NFC championship game.


As for the Wings this year, I have “optimistic low expectations”, meaning it’s sometimes better for a team in this situation to not make the playoffs, but i’m “optimistic” that the team will develop the system, IQ, strength/cardio, and begin to regain the Wings mentality of “we’re going to win”. The similarities i am talking about is how both The Wings(or at least before Mr. I died) and The Caps have very strong and strict organizational business philosophies that have proved to create major issues.

In lieu of being a “broken record”, I’ll skip repaying  how The Caps “We have a chance” philosophy puts sales over championships and go on to The Wings.  Probably the greatest strength, and weakness of Mr. I was the hometown proud, Wimgs/Tigers family stance.  This did, and still does in some cases, created an environment that drew players, coaches and anyone to Detroit and/or want to stay.  This was carried on by the players, coaches, JLA staff, fans and city. Now this obviously, became highly effective up until their last Finals appearances (and what should of been two Cups).  The team was getting older, there was a bottle neck at GRG who had several players that would of been on any other teams roster), the draft picks were getting lower, the league and planet caught on to accounting methods  and getting young players outside the draft, Nick, Hank, Pavel, and Ozzie where all that was from a dynasty made up off all-time greats and hometown hero’s, they had to wear the away sweaters at home with the C and the A on the wrong side (sarcasm), it was clear to almost everyone that a youth movement to begin a rebuild/reboot was in order, and that it may of been to late.
But somewhere between Mr. I, Holland, and Babcock, a downward spiral started.  Including  keeping and resigning declining and/or plateauing players while keeping cheaper players in their 20s that most say are ready for the NHL  in the AHL until they’re 26, keeping a coach who not only did many players not get along with, but refused to change a system that was becoming figured out, which exasperated the likes of DanFucknCleary having a well paid career longer than two seasons . . .

But you get the point, you could see the demise coming for years, and now they didn’t alter/adapt/or redesign their philosophies and practices at a fast enough, effective enough, or large enough scale so a team that made the playoffs for 20+ seasons, made the final 4 times and the conference finals (a lot of) times, is now a team with 1-2 hall of famers, and couple all stars, almost a glorified AHL team that fans are happy if they just develop and improve next year.

A cause to the “DC_Derangement Syndrome” is I have seen  the Caps going down the same road for years. The Wings and other teams and business, where the value of the ideology out weighs the results.


 Will The Caps end up like The Wings are now in 10, 8, 3, 2 seasons? It’s impossible to know for sure, but the the signs and the data is there and it is foolish and naive to dismiss it.


The Wings have 11 Cups, 4* since 97, and had the longest playoff streak in modern major sports history, and I don’t know any fan who says “it’s ok, I have complete trust in Mr Holland, and since we won the Cup for the first time in 40 years, I can die happily”.   

Wings fans understand why the team is where it is now, and would be happy with steady improvement, it sure as hell doesn’t mean we like it, nor do Holland or even Mr. I (the man who almost single handedly saved the city, who recently died), get passes an excuses for this damn mess regardless of what they did in the past.

     The Wings like any team has gone through tough times. In the 70s and 80s the Wings had 13 consecutive sub 500 seasons. When they finally did build a contender they continued to be a contender for a long time. Something that is more difficult now in the salary cap era. They have been fading for about 5 years now. I dont see the Wings being fixed very quickly.
    I honesty feel the Caps have done a better job than the Wings at developing young players recently. I think that trend might change. The Caps dont have a lot of good prospects coming up. A couple of promising dmen. Nothing upfront though. When Ovi, Backstrom and Oshie are gone or are just too old to be productive we could be in trouble.

[4 Caps]

If Vrana and Burakovsky do not develop into top end forwards the Caps will be in a world of hurt in a few years when Ovie, Oshie and Backy lose their effectiveness.  The Caps do not have any potential top end forwards in the system.  I was hoping they could come up with one at this year’s draft but it was not to be. 

[DC_1908]

     The Wings like any team has gone through tough times. In the 70s and 80s the Wings had 13 consecutive sub 500 seasons. When they finally did build a contender they continued to be a contender for a long time. Something that is more difficult now in the salary cap era. They have been fading for about 5 years now. I dont see the Wings being fixed very quickly.
    I honesty feel the Caps have done a better job than the Wings at developing young players recently. I think that trend might change. The Caps dont have a lot of good prospects coming up. A couple of promising dmen. Nothing upfront though. When Ovi, Backstrom and Oshie are gone or are just too old to be productive we could be in trouble.

  Yep, a big part of the development issue is what I said earlier when they leaving the players in the minors to long and keepinc or signing vets during the early 2000s. So when they decided to rebuild (ice Holland talked Mr. I into it), the farn system got cleaned out.
    So while they did develop several great NHL players, (granted no superstars but players almost anyone would take on their team),since the last cup, there’s a lot of gaps left from players who sat in the minors to long.


I agree that it will take a while, but they are on the right track. The farm system is getting reloaded, some said Holland had his best drafts ever these past two years (this is the guy who picked Pavel in 6th and Hank in the 7th rounds), they’re trading for picks and signing players to cap friendly contracts, (ie Vanek for 1 for 3) . . .

It is ironic, when The Wings won their last Cup ten years ago, the Caps where a rebuilding team, that shocked the hockey world on trade-deadline day (best, trade-deadline day, ever) to win 10 out of 11 to win the SE anc clinch a playoff spot on the last game of the season.

10 years later, The Caps win the Cup and the Wings are rebuilding.

20 years ago, they played in the SCF

[Maacoshark]

   Ya Datsyuk in the 6th, Zetterberg in the 7th. Two of the best draft picks in recent NHL history. The Caps better late round picks were guys like Khristich and Bondra. Pretty good players but not the equivalent.

[DC_1908]

   Ya Datsyuk in the 6th, Zetterberg in the 7th. Two of the best draft picks in recent NHL history. The Caps better late round picks were guys like Khristich and Bondra. Pretty good players but not the equivalent.

Ya know that is one thing always  i’ve questioned or complained about with the Caps: finding players deep in the draft, undrafted, or drafted/unsigned UFAs our of college/jrs.


As of now the Caps pre-training camp roster, only Djoos, Boyd, Greisch, and (I think) Copley where taken by the Caps in the 5th or later or UFA, and only Djoos and Copley will are guaranteed to make the roster.

Also Beagle was a undrafted UFA