Author Topic: Niskanen  (Read 17939 times)

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Maacoshark

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Niskanen
« on: Monday May 21, 2018, 01:02:11 PM Eastern »
    I know I was hard on Matt Niskanen last game saying he was partially responsible for all 3 goals. This guy was even harder on Niskanen than I was. That critic is Matt Niskanen.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/capitals-look-rally-around-leader-niskanen-game-6/sn-amp/

Offline Devise

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #1 on: Monday May 21, 2018, 01:43:14 PM Eastern »
    I know I was hard on Matt Niskanen last game saying he was partially responsible for all 3 goals. This guy was even harder on Niskanen than I was. That critic is Matt Niskanen.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/capitals-look-rally-around-leader-niskanen-game-6/sn-amp/


It's no secret I'm a Nisky supporter. I'm not saying he didn't have a bad last game, but I don't think he's had a bad overall playoffs. I think it's tough because when players like him and Orlov have bad games, it's really noticeable. We rely on them a lot, and since Carlson isn't as good defensively as either of them (even if he has had flashes of it in these playoffs) Carlson in the entire CBJ series was a mess defensively and your blind if you can't see that.


None the less, I don't think it's down to just one or two players making mistakes for us. If we were going to win a hockey game with 2 goals scored it was going to require a lot more of a team effort than what we saw in that first period across the board.


Nonetheless, a big reason I've always been a fan of Nisky is because he tells it like it is, even when it regards himself. I don't know if I am full end is nigh yet either, huge game tonight. If we can dominate tonight, and rebound and reset, we could take momentum into Tampa for Game 7.

Maacoshark

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #2 on: Monday May 21, 2018, 02:26:22 PM Eastern »

It's no secret I'm a Nisky supporter. I'm not saying he didn't have a bad last game, but I don't think he's had a bad overall playoffs. I think it's tough because when players like him and Orlov have bad games, it's really noticeable. We rely on them a lot, and since Carlson isn't as good defensively as either of them (even if he has had flashes of it in these playoffs) Carlson in the entire CBJ series was a mess defensively and your blind if you can't see that.


None the less, I don't think it's down to just one or two players making mistakes for us. If we were going to win a hockey game with 2 goals scored it was going to require a lot more of a team effort than what we saw in that first period across the board.


Nonetheless, a big reason I've always been a fan of Nisky is because he tells it like it is, even when it regards himself. I don't know if I am full end is nigh yet either, huge game tonight. If we can dominate tonight, and rebound and reset, we could take momentum into Tampa for Game 7.
   You say Carlson isnt as good defensively as Orlov and Niskanen. In these playoffs he has been better defensively than either of them. He has been the best dman at both ends of the ice and it really isn't even close. Orlov is not a better defensive dman than Carlson. He is still a better offensive dman, the rest of his game is improving but he is far from a shutdown dman.

Offline Beaglefan2

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #3 on: Monday May 21, 2018, 02:30:53 PM Eastern »

This year has not been a good year for Nisky.  He was injured, but most of the problem has been his mental mistakes.  They seemed to come in bunches and there were more than a few games during the year that he just made one stupid mistake after another.  It got to the point that I wondered if Carlson's low hockey IQ was contagious (sorry Maaco - I just couldn't resist).


Let's hope he has a good solid game tonight.

Offline justwincaps

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #4 on: Monday May 21, 2018, 04:26:54 PM Eastern »
   You say Carlson isnt as good defensively as Orlov and Niskanen. In these playoffs he has been better defensively than either of them. He has been the best dman at both ends of the ice and it really isn't even close. Orlov is not a better defensive dman than Carlson. He is still a better offensive dman, the rest of his game is improving but he is far from a shutdown dman.


I'll agree to disagree on that.

Maacoshark

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #5 on: Monday May 21, 2018, 05:18:26 PM Eastern »

I'll agree to disagree on that.
   OK. Who has been better? Because it certainly isn't Orlov or Niskanen.

Maacoshark

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #6 on: Monday May 21, 2018, 05:20:06 PM Eastern »
This year has not been a good year for Nisky.  He was injured, but most of the problem has been his mental mistakes.  They seemed to come in bunches and there were more than a few games during the year that he just made one stupid mistake after another.  It got to the point that I wondered if Carlson's low hockey IQ was contagious (sorry Maaco - I just couldn't resist).


Let's hope he has a good solid game tonight.
    Carlson has shown in these playoffs that he has a hockey IQ. He hasn't made many bonehead plays in these playoffs.

Offline Beaglefan2

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #7 on: Monday May 21, 2018, 05:44:14 PM Eastern »
Let's not get carried away. Carlson has made plenty of boneheaded plays, he just hasn't been burned when it led to a goal.  I will agree that he has played better in these playoffs. I have been pleasantly surprised.

Offline Devise

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #8 on: Monday May 21, 2018, 06:06:03 PM Eastern »
    Carlson has shown in these playoffs that he has a hockey IQ. He hasn't made many bonehead plays in these playoffs.


Are you just like counting these playoffs as only this round? Because that is the only round Carlson defensively has been better than Nisky or Orlov. Against Columbus and Pitt Nisky/Orly were absolutely clutch defensively for us. On MANY occasions. Forgettnig Nisky sweeping several pucks out of the paint against the Pens?


Carlson on the other hand has been better defensively and playing more within the system, specifically against the Pens and some of the later games this series. But he was one of our worst defenders in our own zone against Columbus, we simply had the offensive firepower going to make up for it.

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday May 22, 2018, 12:39:19 AM Eastern »
   You say Carlson isnt as good defensively as Orlov and Niskanen. In these playoffs he has been better defensively than either of them. He has been the best dman at both ends of the ice and it really isn't even close. Orlov is not a better defensive dman than Carlson. He is still a better offensive dman, the rest of his game is improving but he is far from a shutdown dman.
Nisk/Orlov play more minutes for a reason, Carlson gets PP time. And more time you play against the best players, more chances to screw up. I'm not trying to badmouth Carlson. He excels in this playoffs. Considering our D situation, these three D pull a lot by themselves.

Bura was the most irritating to watch he brought just nothing game after games. And without Nisk or Orlov we probably won't be here at this point.

Let's stop blaming, Caps can win only together.

Maacoshark

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday May 22, 2018, 12:45:44 AM Eastern »
Nisk/Orlov play more minutes for a reason, Carlson gets PP time. And more time you play against the best players, more chances to screw up. I'm not trying to badmouth Carlson. He excels in this playoffs. Considering our D situation, these three D pull a lot by themselves.

Bura was the most irritating to watch he brought just nothing game after games. And without Nisk or Orlov we probably won't be here at this point.

Let's stop blaming, Caps can win only together.
   Carlson gets as many minutes as they do and more. Most games Carlson leads in icetime. Yes he plays on the pp but he is also on the pk. Your argument holds no water.
  I agree Niskanen is better defensively than Carlson but Orlov isn't. However in these playoffs Carlson gas been better than both if them. He has been very solid for us.

Offline IDontGiveaChuk

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday May 22, 2018, 01:21:20 AM Eastern »
After game 5 I bashed Nisky because I hate some of the turnovers he makes in his own zone. It's almost like he's cross-eyed or something and just doesn't see how a guy can step up and steal a pass of his.

While I think he's been our steadiest defenseman overall at times, I think Carlson can be too. In the playoffs Carlson has had the weaker D partner so I give him credit because I look at it as adding a degree of difficulty Niskanen doesn't really have. I think Orlov can be unpredictable and risky but I like the risks he takes sometimes too. When it comes to playing with Kempny, he shines then falters. You almost have to expect poor play from Kempny and that has to affect Carlson. On the other hand, Nisk is playing against the other teams top lines and Carlson doesn't so I look at it as sort of evening out.



Offline RavenCp

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday May 22, 2018, 01:34:01 AM Eastern »
   Carlson gets as many minutes as they do and more. Most games Carlson leads in icetime. Yes he plays on the pp but he is also on the pk. Your argument holds no water.
  I agree Niskanen is better defensively than Carlson but Orlov isn't. However in these playoffs Carlson gas been better than both if them. He has been very solid for us.


You don't look TOI by one game, right? There games when this pair played most time, especially Nisk. And Carlson gets PP time. Orlov makes much better passes, he leads attacks. I think in some aspects Orlov better than Carlson, in others Carlson. Nisk probably our best D with most toughest assignments and as he is paired with Orlov, then Orlov has to keep it up. 

Maacoshark

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday May 22, 2018, 08:29:16 AM Eastern »

You don't look TOI by one game, right? There games when this pair played most time, especially Nisk. And Carlson gets PP time. Orlov makes much better passes, he leads attacks. I think in some aspects Orlov better than Carlson, in others Carlson. Nisk probably our best D with most toughest assignments and as he is paired with Orlov, then Orlov has to keep it up.
    Are you making this up as you write it. Carlson lead the Caps in too in the regular season and he also leads in the playoffs. How does that translate to one game?   My point is that Carlson has been better than Niskanen and Orlov in these playoffs.

Offline RavenCp

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday May 22, 2018, 10:38:36 AM Eastern »
    Are you making this up as you write it. Carlson lead the Caps in too in the regular season and he also leads in the playoffs. How does that translate to one game?   My point is that Carlson has been better than Niskanen and Orlov in these playoffs.
Carlson's leading time is because of power play minutes and he is not better overall than Nisk or Orlov. I they all more or less equal with different strong sides. Orlov is the best progressing player compare to all of them.


Carlson is on a finished year of his contract, after re-signing then he'll go Jonny doesn't care mode. I hope he'll be focused at least for playoffs. 

BTW, one of the games with TB, John has -3.

Offline Devise

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday May 22, 2018, 01:01:23 PM Eastern »
    Are you making this up as you write it. Carlson lead the Caps in too in the regular season and he also leads in the playoffs. How does that translate to one game?   My point is that Carlson has been better than Niskanen and Orlov in these playoffs.


I just don't get how you can see that. Carlson has been good offensively all these playoffs, absolutely. Carlson has been steady defensively, since about Game 4 of the Pitt series imo. But he was actively bad defensively against Columbus. So for you to continue to say "these whole playoffs" when you only mean that Carlson was better than Orlov/Niskanen defensively for what, 3 games this series? The 3 games we lost no less. Carlson was bad defensively the entire Columbus series. He was simply steady against Pitt. Where as Nisky and Orlov were both good against Columbus and literally great against Pitt. And then again they were both good against Tampa in some games this series defensively. Game 1 and 2 both good, and I thought they were both great last night.


Carlson was worse defensively than they were last night, more of the quality chances came against his pairing and when Djoos was on the ice. Djoos is obviously our weakest link defensively, i'm not crazy enough not to see that. But the narrative that you've woved that Carlson has somehow been better in our own end is wild. He is the most guilty party of just slapping the puck up the boards, which Orlov and Niskanen only do in situations when the forecheck is coming in too hot. Even ignoring breakouts, the amount of times Nisky and Orlov show up holding the blue line, and taking steals out of the neutral zone against Pitt and in Games 1, 2 and 6 of this series is impossible not to see. The forwards clog lanes and it allows the defenders to step up and keep the forecheck and the cycle going and going and going. It allows us to control flows of the game, but it's still a defensive play. Add that to the number of times once they do get a skate in, again this is against both Pitt in Tampa same games I mentioned, it's almost often Orlov/Nisky stepping up and stealing the puck or outplaying the man after the first move to end the chance. Even when they get beaten, they then tip or push the puck into the boards and box out to allow other forwards to come in.


I'm not denying they had those couple of bad games this series, they absolutely did. But in the games where our defense has been a shining point, Orlov/Niskanen have been our two best defenders defensively, with Orpik third, easily. Hell I'd probably put Kempny as more of a standout defensively in those games than Carlson. The only difference in Carlson is he's more composed and it allows him to stick to the system and play steadier when he's in the D zone. It means he makes less awful plays, not more quality defensive plays. The other three defenders I mentioned have easily made far more quality defensive plays game to game on a consistent basis, whether it's big quality defensive plays like pushing the puck off the line, or the little things that go unnoticed like interrupting breakouts, or pushing the puck into corners and allowing it to turn into board battles that our forwards can win. They simply have a better mind for defensive hockey, that is obvious.

Maacoshark

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday May 22, 2018, 07:23:34 PM Eastern »

I just don't get how you can see that. Carlson has been good offensively all these playoffs, absolutely. Carlson has been steady defensively, since about Game 4 of the Pitt series imo. But he was actively bad defensively against Columbus. So for you to continue to say "these whole playoffs" when you only mean that Carlson was better than Orlov/Niskanen defensively for what, 3 games this series? The 3 games we lost no less. Carlson was bad defensively the entire Columbus series. He was simply steady against Pitt. Where as Nisky and Orlov were both good against Columbus and literally great against Pitt. And then again they were both good against Tampa in some games this series defensively. Game 1 and 2 both good, and I thought they were both great last night.


Carlson was worse defensively than they were last night, more of the quality chances came against his pairing and when Djoos was on the ice. Djoos is obviously our weakest link defensively, i'm not crazy enough not to see that. But the narrative that you've woved that Carlson has somehow been better in our own end is wild. He is the most guilty party of just slapping the puck up the boards, which Orlov and Niskanen only do in situations when the forecheck is coming in too hot. Even ignoring breakouts, the amount of times Nisky and Orlov show up holding the blue line, and taking steals out of the neutral zone against Pitt and in Games 1, 2 and 6 of this series is impossible not to see. The forwards clog lanes and it allows the defenders to step up and keep the forecheck and the cycle going and going and going. It allows us to control flows of the game, but it's still a defensive play. Add that to the number of times once they do get a skate in, again this is against both Pitt in Tampa same games I mentioned, it's almost often Orlov/Nisky stepping up and stealing the puck or outplaying the man after the first move to end the chance. Even when they get beaten, they then tip or push the puck into the boards and box out to allow other forwards to come in.


I'm not denying they had those couple of bad games this series, they absolutely did. But in the games where our defense has been a shining point, Orlov/Niskanen have been our two best defenders defensively, with Orpik third, easily. Hell I'd probably put Kempny as more of a standout defensively in those games than Carlson. The only difference in Carlson is he's more composed and it allows him to stick to the system and play steadier when he's in the D zone. It means he makes less awful plays, not more quality defensive plays. The other three defenders I mentioned have easily made far more quality defensive plays game to game on a consistent basis, whether it's big quality defensive plays like pushing the puck off the line, or the little things that go unnoticed like interrupting breakouts, or pushing the puck into corners and allowing it to turn into board battles that our forwards can win. They simply have a better mind for defensive hockey, that is obvious.
   Lol you should really watch that Columbus series again. It was Orlov and Niskanen that sucked in the first round. Especially Orlov. And they had a couple bad games in this series.
And BTW Carlson gets moire mins than either of those 2 , even with few pps. He is playing very well for us.

Offline Mickstix

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday May 23, 2018, 12:24:02 PM Eastern »
I hope it's not fatigue or minutes causing some of these errors on D.. Niskanen, last game, started screwing up about a minute in.. lol They've all done some bonehead plays this post season, but I repeatedly notice Nisky doing suspect shit.. Hope he and the rest of em' tighten up for tonight!! Should get to see the best of both teams..

Offline DC_1908

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday May 23, 2018, 12:36:47 PM Eastern »
   Lol you should really watch that Columbus series again. It was Orlov and Niskanen that sucked in the first round. Especially Orlov. And they had a couple bad games in this series.
And BTW Carlson gets moire mins than either of those 2 , even with few pps. He is playing very well for us.


Debating who's better defensively: Carlson. Nisky, and Orlov, is like judging a rally fat beauty contest.   Aint none of em good.

Offline Devise

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Re: Niskanen
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday May 23, 2018, 06:01:54 PM Eastern »

Debating who's better defensively: Carlson. Nisky, and Orlov, is like judging a rally fat beauty contest.   Aint none of em good.


One area I actively disagree with you on I think. Especially in some games these playoffs, really most, for Nisky. Orpik has by far been our physically effective D, but against Columbus and Pitt Nisky was stellar. Like stellar, defensively. He didn't looked panicked or rushed at all imo, and while he wasn't playing perfect hockey every single night, he had some amazing defensive plays that helped win us games. It's obviously been team efforts to in some cases, but I've seen some really good plays by him this post season, and from my vantage point he's bailed us out far more than he's hurt us this post season. Far more. Pitt and Columbus alone make up for the what 3 games he had bad this series?