GDT R2G1 Penguins @ Capitals 2018-04-26 7:00pm EST NBCSN, CBC

[KitFisto]

I agree. I said from the beginning it was unfair. They had twice the pool to choose from than the last expansion draft in 2000 from which the Columbus Blue Jackets and the Minnesota Wild had to draw from. This means they had four times the opportunity of the last expansion teams.

Exactly, even McPhee couldn't screw it up.

[DC_1908]

Exactly, even McPhee couldn't screw it up.

I actuallh think a lot of them would, GMBetaMale for example


This system was designed to make Vegas immediately competitive, but there’s no way in hell the NHL wanted what happened.  The NHL loves “stars” and marketing them, which is one reason why teams protected “stars”, while hoping better players, and/or higher value players went unprotected.


It was well within the ability of the other GMs to salary dump, rebuild their team, while  leaving high dollar dollar contracts that would create a disfunctional disaster for a team, but they got outmanuvered and played.

[waynerivers]

Exactly, even McPhee couldn't screw it up.

Of course when teams like Washington give away a guy like Schmidt for nothing it makes it easier but it doesn't make it easy.  Let's look at some of these "stars" Vegas got for nothing:


William Karlsson   43-35-78 in 82 games -    Prior to that 18-32-50 in 183 games (0.27 ppg)
Jonathan Marchessault 23-48-75 in 77 games -  Prior to that 38-32-70 in 124 games (0.56 ppg)
David Perron 15-50-66 in 70 games -  Prior to that 155-219-374 in 652 games (0.57 ppg)
Reilly Smith 22-38-60 in 67 games- Prior to that 76-111-187 in 365 games (0.51 ppg)
Eric Haula 29-26-55 in 76 games- Prior to that 42-47-89 in 266 games (0.33 ppg)
James Neal 25-19-44 in 71 games- Prior to that 238-451-689 in 632 games (1.09 ppg)
Alex Tuch 15-22-37 in 82 games- Prior to that 0 points in 6 games
Cody Eakin 11-16-27 in 82 games- Prior to that 69-85-154 in 383 games (0.40 ppg)


So, every one of these guys with the exception of Neal and Eakin outperformed their career stats, sometimes by wide margins.  Eakin was slightly under and Neal, who was arguably the easiest pick to make among the forwards, grossly underperformed his career stats.   Who would predict that?


Looking at the defense, we see:


Colin Miller
Nate Schmidt
Shea Theodore
Deryk Engelland
Brad Hunt
Brayden McNabb


Now, tell me that anyone on the planet outside Vegas saw that as a division winning, cup contending defense.  Nobody did.  As for Fleury, yes, he had a solid track record and has played very well.  So, all in all, Vegas has done a masterful job in seeing something in these guys and molding all the parts together into a top team.  Excellent coaching also helps immensely.  Any idea that this was easy or just "picking stars" out of a hat, is completely wrong.

[Maacoshark]

I agree. I said from the beginning it was unfair. They had twice the pool to choose from than the last expansion draft in 2000 from which the Columbus Blue Jackets and the Minnesota Wild had to draw from. This means they had four times the opportunity of the last expansion teams.

   You guys should look back to the Caps roster when they were an expansion franchise. It wasn't pretty.

[KitFisto]

Of course when teams like Washington give away a guy like Schmidt for nothing it makes it easier but it doesn't make it easy.  Let's look at some of these "stars" Vegas got for nothing:


William Karlsson   43-35-78 in 82 games -    Prior to that 18-32-50 in 183 games (0.27 ppg)
Jonathan Marchessault 23-48-75 in 77 games -  Prior to that 38-32-70 in 124 games (0.56 ppg)
David Perron 15-50-66 in 70 games -  Prior to that 155-219-374 in 652 games (0.57 ppg)
Reilly Smith 22-38-60 in 67 games- Prior to that 76-111-187 in 365 games (0.51 ppg)
Eric Haula 29-26-55 in 76 games- Prior to that 42-47-89 in 266 games (0.33 ppg)
James Neal 25-19-44 in 71 games- Prior to that 238-451-689 in 632 games (1.09 ppg)
Alex Tuch 15-22-37 in 82 games- Prior to that 0 points in 6 games
Cody Eakin 11-16-27 in 82 games- Prior to that 69-85-154 in 383 games (0.40 ppg)


So, every one of these guys with the exception of Neal and Eakin outperformed their career stats, sometimes by wide margins.  Eakin was slightly under and Neal, who was arguably the easiest pick to make among the forwards, grossly underperformed his career stats.   Who would predict that?


Looking at the defense, we see:


Colin Miller
Nate Schmidt
Shea Theodore
Deryk Engelland
Brad Hunt
Brayden McNabb


Now, tell me that anyone on the planet outside Vegas saw that as a division winning, cup contending defense.  Nobody did.  As for Fleury, yes, he had a solid track record and has played very well.  So, all in all, Vegas has done a masterful job in seeing something in these guys and molding all the parts together into a top team.  Excellent coaching also helps immensely.  Any idea that this was easy or just "picking stars" out of a hat, is completely wrong.

The flip side of that argument is that some of these players just needed the opportunity to be in a more prominent role to break out or others needed new scenery. No, one thought they'd be THIS good, but the writing was on the wall that they'd certainly be a competitive team unlike any other expansion team ever has been.

[waynerivers]

The flip side of that argument is that some of these players just needed the opportunity to be in a more prominent role to break out or others needed new scenery. No, one thought they'd be THIS good, but the writing was on the wall that they'd certainly be a competitive team unlike any other expansion team ever has been.

Yes, but competitive and being a league power are two different things.  Winning 35-40 games is competitive.  As for guys just needing an opportunity or new scenery, that was my point.  Vegas management saw something other teams missed and they took a chance on these guys.  That's far different than having some pot of riches to dip into where you can make a powerhouse practically by accident.  That's the suggestion which was being made here which I completely disagree with.

[Mickstix]

They had to pick 1 player from each team and picked the best one available.. Seems pretty easy to me. The ones that took the chance were the teams who left player's with upside unprotected and coddled their "stars"...

[DC_1908]

The flip side of that argument is that some of these players just needed the opportunity to be in a more prominent role to break out or others needed new scenery. No, one thought they'd be THIS good, but the writing was on the wall that they'd certainly be a competitive team unlike any other expansion team ever has been.

Yep no one anticipated they’d be this good because they thought they’d be picking the likes of Orpik because they protected Carlson and hoped they would ignore Schmidt.


So, he didn’t go through and just pick the “7th best” player on each team . . .


They thought competitive would be an all-star or two and a late playoff push, . , yet GMGM took every advantage and manipulated everyone to make a team of virtual unknowns and six alternate captains to make a serious cup threat.  Not a contender, not a chance, but a “it’s damn near there’s to loose”.

Vegas picked the perfect GM for this, and least 28 other GMs would have been struggling to make the playoffs and/or in cap-hell next year and in the forseable future if they where in his place.

[alta]

Yep no one anticipated they’d be this good because they thought they’d be picking the likes of Orpik because they protected Carlson and hoped they would ignore Schmidt.


So, he didn’t go through and just pick the “7th best” player on each team . . .


They thought competitive would be an all-star or two and a late playoff push, . , yet GMGM took every advantage and manipulated everyone to make a team of virtual unknowns and six alternate captains to make a serious cup threat.  Not a contender, not a chance, but a “it’s damn near there’s to loose”.

Vegas picked the perfect GM for this, and least 28 other GMs would have been struggling to make the playoffs and/or in cap-hell next year and in the forseable future if they where in his place.

IMHO, I think you're giving GMGM just a bit too much credit, it was Bettman that pretty much handed Vegas a Cup with that stupid draft, teams should have been able to protect more than 10 players(12 would've been good), and I'm willing to bet that will be the case with the next expansion team

[Maacoshark]

IMHO, I think you're giving GMGM just a bit too much credit, it was Bettman that pretty much handed Vegas a Cup with that stupid draft, teams should have been able to protect more than 10 players(12 would've been good), and I'm willing to bet that will be the case with the next expansion team

   I have to agree. There was too much talent made available.

[Racer17l]

   I have to agree. There was too much talent made available.

The league has already said Seattle will have the same set up.

[waynerivers]

IMHO, I think you're giving GMGM just a bit too much credit, it was Bettman that pretty much handed Vegas a Cup with that stupid draft, teams should have been able to protect more than 10 players(12 would've been good), and I'm willing to bet that will be the case with the next expansion team

Handed them a cup?  C'mon man.  The players they picked hadn't shown all that much prior to going to Vegas.  This idea that all you need to do to have a powerhouse is get an expansion team, is silly.  If the same cast Vegas has was handed to Trotz and company the results would be much different.  Coaching and philosophy is a vital component and we don't have adequate coaching in DC.

[Maacoshark]

Handed them a cup?  C'mon man.  The players they picked hadn't shown all that much prior to going to Vegas.  This idea that all you need to do to have a powerhouse is get an expansion team, is silly.  If the same cast Vegas has was handed to Trotz and company the results would be much different.  Coaching and philosophy is a vital component and we don't have adequate coaching in DC.

   I wouldn't say handed them a cup but they were handed a contender. The expansion rules were a joke. Each team only protecting either 10 or 8 skaters. Past expansion draft rules had team protecting 14 or 15 players and the players left available were dispersed to 2 teams some seasons. I can't remember the exact rules of each expansion draft but this one had a lot more talent available for one team then every in the history of expansion.
    Alot of teams in the NHL are in rebuild mode which takes several years. Why rebuild? Fold the team and build can expansion team instead. Its obviously alot quicker with these rules.

[richkrt99]

Yep no one anticipated they’d be this good because they thought they’d be picking the likes of Orpik because they protected Carlson and hoped they would ignore Schmidt.


So, he didn’t go through and just pick the “7th best” player on each team . . .


They thought competitive would be an all-star or two and a late playoff push, . , yet GMGM took every advantage and manipulated everyone to make a team of virtual unknowns and six alternate captains to make a serious cup threat.  Not a contender, not a chance, but a “it’s damn near there’s to loose”.

Vegas picked the perfect GM for this, and least 28 other GMs would have been struggling to make the playoffs and/or in cap-hell next year and in the forseeable future if they where in his place.

I have to disagree a bit here also.  I think GMGM did a masterful job, but he had a HUGE pool to draw from that was simply too generous.  And it wasn't "cast-offs", but rather a big list of players teams simply could not protect.  It was unfair to the teams who were relatively talent heavy (like the Caps).  I mean if you had a team with four great forwards and 3 great defensmen and 1 good goalie, and the rest were a bunch of scrubs, then you weren't in danger of losing anything really.  However, if you had lots of "good" players and TWO good goaltenders, then you knew for a fact you were giving up a quality player.  I mean VGK got an all-star, seasoned and proven goaltender with playoff experience right off the bat.  That alone is unfair.  How many other teams would like to have picked up MAF for FREE?
Nobody wanted to see Schmidt go, but who would you have let go instead?  Orlov?  Niskanen?  Carlson?  Hah!  You're lying if you tell me you think Schmidt was on par with any of those three at the end of last year.  We certainly all loved him for his personality and his speed and his POTENTIAL upside, but can you honestly say (based on where he was at the end of last year) you would rather have Nate on the Caps in THIS current series against the Hens than either Carlson or Nisky?  Schmidt had a very good playoff last year, but was shakey at best throughout the season.  Did he even make the lineup all year?  Don't get me wrong, I liked the guy, but he was UNPROVEN and based on the Caps D situation at the end of last year KNOWING Alzner was gone, I can't argue with protecting Nisky and Carlson.


I personally would have left Carlson unprotected because I think he was going to be gone after this year.  (also we didn't know he was going to have a banner year this year (well, Maako probably did  )  I'm not down on Carlson, but basically figure he was to be a lost cause in a year, so why not protect Schmidt and force Vegas to take Carlson....Risky for sure, but you'd only lose a year of Carlson anyway.
[size=78%]I would also have left Orpik unprotected based on the cap hit and his age, even though I think he still has had value beyond what we see.  His lack of speed is exposed in this series, but his physical play and toughness (and unseen leadership) certainly has helped get us here.  At least he still frigging clobbers a guy standing in the crease.  We are already short on grit on this team....imagine it without Orpik.  Fucking Crybaby Hens absolutely hate being hit and it shows.  Imagine this team without Wilson or Orpik.  Hens would be ice dancing around without a worry in the world.[/size]


Oh, and I'm not arguing all your points DC, but didn't you absolutely hate GMGM when he was here?  Complained about him every year at the deadline NOT having balls to make the big trade, not taking a chance, not willing to blow it up and start over...  Now he's a genius because he built a team with the most generous draft in history?


I mean all this is 20/20 hind sight so its horseshit anyway, but this draft was a joke.  How about offer this draft opportunity to ANY team that didn't make the playoffs this year and tell me they would not leap at it?  Why not offer them the same chance you offered Vegas - an expansion team?  Why do they get an opportunity at a draft class absolutely no other team in history has had?


Rant done.  Go Caps!  Hit that friggin Crybaby Cindy girl every chance you get.