Author Topic: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm  (Read 16048 times)

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Offline DC_1908

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #100 on: Tuesday February 23, 2021, 07:28:09 AM Eastern »
Sorry folks.  I love Jay Beagle and his effort and so on and his history with the team, but at age 34 he's not worth 3 mil/year TO A VERY CASH STRAPPED TEAM as a 4th line Center just to win some faceoffs.  At best he could take maybe 1/3 of the teams total draws and win maybe 58% of those?.  That's a TEAM face off percentage improvement of maybe 2-3% best case.  I know it's important and a undervalued skill, and we know he's a great guy and a good PK guy and such, but Dowd at $750k is basically the same guy for 1/4 the cost (minus some of the faceoff skill).  And Dowd is 4-5 years younger.  We have enough 3rd/4th line type PK guys.  I am using Dowd as comparison because he is the 4C


SO I looked it up...


Dowd's FO % is right around 52.8% this year
Jay Beagle is a beast in the circle at 57.8%
That's a 5% increase for one player who will take likely less than 1/3 of the teams draws.  That's a team's Faceoff % net increase of like 1.7%


That's not worth adding $2.25 million to this team.  (Dowd is a flat out bargain at $750k per year)


Now if you want to trade Hags at 2.75 mill and talk VC into keeping $250k of Beags Salary then okay.  But then you still have basically two 4C guys.  I guess Dowd could play wing or you bring in one of the other guys (waiting in the wings) :snicker: .


But you still have to manage the salary problem.
Thats why you move/taxi/send down  Sheary, Panik, Spooge, Keller, or any of the overpaid Lollipop Guild that play the "3rd" line, & put Beagle there, with McMicheal, Sutter, or Pillion.


A 35 year Beagle and 22 yo kid is better than any of the Lollipop Guid right now

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #101 on: Tuesday February 23, 2021, 11:21:48 AM Eastern »
Sorry folks.  I love Jay Beagle and his effort and so on and his history with the team, but at age 34 he's not worth 3 mil/year TO A VERY CASH STRAPPED TEAM as a 4th line Center just to win some faceoffs.  At best he could take maybe 1/3 of the teams total draws and win maybe 58% of those?.  That's a TEAM face off percentage improvement of maybe 2-3% best case.  I know it's important and a undervalued skill, and we know he's a great guy and a good PK guy and such, but Dowd at $750k is basically the same guy for 1/4 the cost (minus some of the faceoff skill).  And Dowd is 4-5 years younger.  We have enough 3rd/4th line type PK guys.  I am using Dowd as comparison because he is the 4C


SO I looked it up...


Dowd's FO % is right around 52.8% this year
Jay Beagle is a beast in the circle at 57.8%
That's a 5% increase for one player who will take likely less than 1/3 of the teams draws.  That's a team's Faceoff % net increase of like 1.7%


That's not worth adding $2.25 million to this team.  (Dowd is a flat out bargain at $750k per year)


Now if you want to trade Hags at 2.75 mill and talk VC into keeping $250k of Beags Salary then okay.  But then you still have basically two 4C guys.  I guess Dowd could play wing or you bring in one of the other guys (waiting in the wings) :snicker: .


But you still have to manage the salary problem.
Hence why I said they eat most of his salary. Read first, then respond. Vancouver gets a 4th instead of a 6th for eating his salary. Caps wont need much maneuvering if its at the deadline and he'll need to be quarantined for a bit coming from the north division (canada)
There will be injuries between now and then and into the playoffs.


What's your glorious idea to help with faceoffs beside praying Peca can turn things around for the current centremen?Lol
« Last Edit: Tuesday February 23, 2021, 11:23:57 AM Eastern by DC_1908 »

Offline DC_1908

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #102 on: Tuesday February 23, 2021, 11:36:00 AM Eastern »
Hence why I said they eat most of his salary. Read first, then respond. Vancouver gets a 4th instead of a 6th for eating his salary. Caps wont need much maneuvering if its at the deadline and he'll need to be quarantined for a bit coming from the north division (canada)
There will be injuries between now and then and into the playoffs.


What's your glorious idea to help with faceoffs beside praying Peca can turn things around for the current centremen?Lol
To be fair. . .(to be faiir, to be faiiiir, to be faiiiiir, to ba faiiiiiiiiiiiiir) . . .heh Letterkenny fucking rules!!!


Might as well have Willie & Oshie take most of the face-offs, they're better at it then Suzy & Keller.


I wish that was in jest but sadly it would work better than what we have now

Offline richkrt99

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #103 on: Tuesday February 23, 2021, 11:49:37 AM Eastern »
Thats why you move/taxi/send down  Sheary, Panik, Spooge, Keller, or any of the overpaid Lollipop Guild that play the "3rd" line, & put Beagle there, with McMicheal, Sutter, or Pillion.


A 35 year Beagle and 22 yo kid is better than any of the Lollipop Guid right now


I don't understand your beef with Eller.  He is adequately paid for his value.  He is a good 3c and fills that role well, and a very good fit on this team particularly.  He has filled in at 2C when needed, and can move up and down the lineup as needed.  I am not expecting 20+ goals out of him, but rather ABOUT 15-20g and 20a in a full season...which is pretty much where he is at and has performed over his time in Washington.  Also....he picked up his play in the SC playoffs and scored some timely/big goals.  Also he plays hard.  Not Tom Wilson hard, but he uses his size well and mucks in the corners and does generate some chances.  He passes pretty well.  If he didn't have two wingers with stone hands he'd probably score a little more, but that's true of anyone.


I know you can't get past the Rat jumping him a few years ago and your general dislike (okay total hatred) for anything Euro, but Eller is an adequate 3C and paid accordingly, and I think a very good fit on this team at this time.


The average scoring for a NHL 3C is 14 goals and 36pts.  Eller the last three seasons had 18, 13, 16 goals and 38, 36, 39 pts.  And one of those was a short season.
Now that "average" is kind of wonky because 3c (or any 3rd line) has vastly different roles on different teams.  Eller's line is MOSTLY a shut down line and NOT a scoring line, so the fact he has slightly better than average scoring (especially considering his line mates)


Not that I am the greatest lover of Eller, but I don't understand the rap he gets on these boards.  He has been a good 3c fit for this team.









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Offline richkrt99

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #104 on: Tuesday February 23, 2021, 12:42:11 PM Eastern »
Hence why I said they eat most of his salary. Read first, then respond. Vancouver gets a 4th instead of a 6th for eating his salary. Caps wont need much maneuvering if its at the deadline and he'll need to be quarantined for a bit coming from the north division (canada)
There will be injuries between now and then and into the playoffs.


What's your glorious idea to help with faceoffs beside praying Peca can turn things around for the current centremen?Lol
    :clap:


Dude?  Why always the dickhead attitude with you?  You can post your ideas or disagree with someone without being a dick.  Or can you?   :huh:
Are you still mad about the poutine thing?  Get over it already.


I did read the post first and then responded.  I read that you said Vancouver would eat most of Beags salary....but why would they do that?  And my post stated my argument for why Beagle would not be a good trade for this team at this time....TOO MUCH COST FOR TOO LITTLE GAIN.   I did this without attacking you.  I simply disagreed with you.  I loved Beagle when he was here and loved his play and YES, he is great at face offs.  But just because your want a guy like him doesn't mean your team can afford him or that he is worth what it will actually cost to get him.  And thinking that one old guy coming in is going to solve your faceoff problem is unrealistic.  That doesn't fix the other 3 centers faceoff woes.  OR do you expect that Beags faceoff skills will cure the others' by osmosis?  Your own made up jab about a faceoff coach isn't going to help, bet then you think one faceoff guys solves the woes of the rest of them?  Just as you stated in your post, but apparently did not read...
Oh wait, it's let me quote you..."What's your glorious idea to help with faceoffs beside praying Peca Beags can turn things around for the current centremen?Lol"

[/size]I did not say praying or Peca would solve it.  Did I?  So why suggest that was my idea?  And so exactly how does your Beags solution turn things around for the other current centers?


Your "glorious idea" is a part fantasy or wish list.  Great...if we are going to fantasize, why not just trade Dowd and a bag of pucks for McDavid?  Oh...wait because maybe Edmonton wouldn't go for that.  Or we are strictly worried about Faceoffs...why not Cindy Crybaby Crosby?  He's pretty good in the dot.


How about we throw in a bucket of poutine (not pissed in) to sweeten the deal.  Then maybe they'd go for it?  You'd know better than the rest of us, I'm sure.  Since you are Canadian, you therefore must know more about hockey and poutine value than the rest of us.


You jumped all over Alta a couple weeks back for suggesting the Caps GM wasn't great.  Can you not just disagree and then state why you disagree and skip the hostility.  Man, someone must have really peed in your poutine, or maybe it just curdled?  Oh wait, it is supposed to be curdled, so....  Oh never mind.


I'm about tired of your pissy puotine ass.  If you can comment and share and swap ideas, great.  That's why we are here.  I/we welcome alternative points of view and ideas and discussion about hockey (and other stuff).  But if you want to continue to just be a dickhead then go to the Hens board - you'll fit right in.  :uh-huh:







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Offline DC_1908

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #105 on: Tuesday February 23, 2021, 12:59:03 PM Eastern »

I don't understand your beef with Eller.  He is adequately paid for his value.  He is a good 3c and fills that role well, and a very good fit on this team particularly.  He has filled in at 2C when needed, and can move up and down the lineup as needed.  I am not expecting 20+ goals out of him, but rather ABOUT 15-20g and 20a in a full season...which is pretty much where he is at and has performed over his time in Washington.  Also....he picked up his play in the SC playoffs and scored some timely/big goals.  Also he plays hard.  Not Tom Wilson hard, but he uses his size well and mucks in the corners and does generate some chances.  He passes pretty well.  If he didn't have two wingers with stone hands he'd probably score a little more, but that's true of anyone.


I know you can't get past the Rat jumping him a few years ago and your general dislike (okay total hatred) for anything Euro, but Eller is an adequate 3C and paid accordingly, and I think a very good fit on this team at this time.


The average scoring for a NHL 3C is 14 goals and 36pts.  Eller the last three seasons had 18, 13, 16 goals and 38, 36, 39 pts.  And one of those was a short season.
Now that "average" is kind of wonky because 3c (or any 3rd line) has vastly different roles on different teams.  Eller's line is MOSTLY a shut down line and NOT a scoring line, so the fact he has slightly better than average scoring (especially considering his line mates)


Not that I am the greatest lover of Eller, but I don't understand the rap he gets on these boards.  He has been a good 3c fit for this team.
If you are only talking about points and posts per million cap hit, you are completely correct.

My main issues is for his role, ice-time, & salary, his face-offs, defense, versatility, turnovers, physicality & intensity have at best been average and that on occasion, and his offensive production has been inconsistent & not enough to compensate.

While age is his advantage, he's nowhere near the complete player that Beagle or Fehr are, particularly at comparative ages, if not now.

But, until GMBetaMale mans up, or Lavi screams more, the "3rd" line will consistent of one-way players not good enough to play over 12 min per game that "enter the zone with speed" only to be crushed 90% of the time.

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #106 on: Tuesday February 23, 2021, 05:58:47 PM Eastern »
If you are only talking about points and posts per million cap hit, you are completely correct.

My main issues is for his role, ice-time, & salary, his face-offs, defense, versatility, turnovers, physicality & intensity have at best been average and that on occasion, and his offensive production has been inconsistent & not enough to compensate.

While age is his advantage, he's nowhere near the complete player that Beagle or Fehr are, particularly at comparative ages, if not now.

But, until GMBetaMale mans up, or Lavi screams more, the "3rd" line will consistent of one-way players not good enough to play over 12 min per game that "enter the zone with speed" only to be crushed 90% of the time.


Although as much as I like Eller for our current 3C...


I do NOT see him as a 1C with Ovie and Willy (like tonight's lines)

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canadiancapman

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #107 on: Wednesday February 24, 2021, 11:27:08 AM Eastern »
    :clap:


Dude?  Why always the dickhead attitude with you?  You can post your ideas or disagree with someone without being a dick.  Or can you?   :huh:
Are you still mad about the poutine thing?  Get over it already.


I did read the post first and then responded.  I read that you said Vancouver would eat most of Beags salary....but why would they do that?  And my post stated my argument for why Beagle would not be a good trade for this team at this time....TOO MUCH COST FOR TOO LITTLE GAIN.   I did this without attacking you.  I simply disagreed with you.  I loved Beagle when he was here and loved his play and YES, he is great at face offs.  But just because your want a guy like him doesn't mean your team can afford him or that he is worth what it will actually cost to get him.  And thinking that one old guy coming in is going to solve your faceoff problem is unrealistic.  That doesn't fix the other 3 centers faceoff woes.  OR do you expect that Beags faceoff skills will cure the others' by osmosis?  Your own made up jab about a faceoff coach isn't going to help, bet then you think one faceoff guys solves the woes of the rest of them?  Just as you stated in your post, but apparently did not read...
Oh wait, it's let me quote you..."What's your glorious idea to help with faceoffs beside praying Peca Beags can turn things around for the current centremen?Lol"

I did not say praying or Peca would solve it.  Did I?  So why suggest that was my idea?  And so exactly how does your Beags solution turn things around for the other current centers?



Your "glorious idea" is a part fantasy or wish list.  Great...if we are going to fantasize, why not just trade Dowd and a bag of pucks for McDavid?  Oh...wait because maybe Edmonton wouldn't go for that.  Or we are strictly worried about Faceoffs...why not Cindy Crybaby Crosby?  He's pretty good in the dot.


How about we throw in a bucket of poutine (not pissed in) to sweeten the deal.  Then maybe they'd go for it?  You'd know better than the rest of us, I'm sure.  Since you are Canadian, you therefore must know more about hockey and poutine value than the rest of us.


You jumped all over Alta a couple weeks back for suggesting the Caps GM wasn't great.  Can you not just disagree and then state why you disagree and skip the hostility.  Man, someone must have really peed in your poutine, or maybe it just curdled?  Oh wait, it is supposed to be curdled, so....  Oh never mind.


I'm about tired of your pissy puotine ass.  If you can comment and share and swap ideas, great.  That's why we are here.  I/we welcome alternative points of view and ideas and discussion about hockey (and other stuff).  But if you want to continue to just be a dickhead then go to the Hens board - you'll fit right in.  :uh-huh:




How is getting beagle a fantasy?
You simply prove over and over that your hockey knowledge is slim to none but you do know lots about poutine so there's a start.
Why wouldn't a team that's not going to make the playoffs refuse to trade a guy that is older and on an expiring contract?
What would you say the cost would be? I figure a 4th rd pick would be enough for them to eat his salary. He's a 4th liner on an expiring contract. Usually they go for 6-7th pick at the deadline. Caps wont be able to do much more without sending contracts out. It's an add without subtracting.


Its ok for you to chirp me but I can't chirp you? Typical toddler attitude and I continue to expect nothing less from you.


And yes, thanks for admitting that I know more about hockey and poutine than you. You're making progress. :uh-huh:
« Last Edit: Wednesday February 24, 2021, 06:01:41 PM Eastern by DC_1908 »

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #108 on: Thursday February 25, 2021, 12:49:12 AM Eastern »
There is a big difference between chirping and throwing insults as you have done.


Bringing Beags back has been talked about since the day he left. There were opportunities to do so prior to now. It didn't happen then for the same reason it won't happen now, and it has nothing to do with the salary cap.




Hopefully you know more about poutine
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Offline DC_1908

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #109 on: Thursday February 25, 2021, 07:13:10 AM Eastern »



How is getting beagle a fantasy?
You simply prove over and over that your hockey knowledge is slim to none but you do know lots about poutine so there's a start.
Why wouldn't a team that's not going to make the playoffs refuse to trade a guy that is older and on an expiring contract?
What would you say the cost would be? I figure a 4th rd pick would be enough for them to eat his salary. He's a 4th liner on an expiring contract. Usually they go for 6-7th pick at the deadline. Caps wont be able to do much more without sending contracts out. It's an add without subtracting.


Its ok for you to chirp me but I can't chirp you? Typical toddler attitude and I continue to expect nothing less from you.


And yes, thanks for admitting that I know more about hockey and poutine than you. You're making progress. :uh-huh:
I agree 100%

But . . .

GMBetaMale & Monumental Entertainment simply does not value a skill set like Beagles enough, if at all.

What you and I are suggesting would absolutely give this team more wins than the losses one-way soft midgets, (height or weight room, or attitude), that GMBetaMale likes & Monumental wants to "sell", have costs  and will continue to.

For evidence, without Wilson, Nick, & Ovie together, Dowds group has hands done been our BEST group this year,  with the "2nd" & "3rd" not coming close despite generally getting more time this year.

But, Kuzy, Varana, Eller, Sheary, & Panik (certainly) sell more jerseys than Hathaway, Haglin, & Dowd do, and probably more than Beagle would. 

Offline richkrt99

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Re: GDT #17 Capitals vs Devils @ 2:30pm
« Reply #110 on: Thursday February 25, 2021, 11:11:42 AM Eastern »



How is getting beagle a fantasy?
You simply prove over and over that your hockey knowledge is slim to none but you do know lots about poutine so there's a start.
Why wouldn't a team that's not going to make the playoffs refuse to trade a guy that is older and on an expiring contract?
What would you say the cost would be? I figure a 4th rd pick would be enough for them to eat his salary. He's a 4th liner on an expiring contract. Usually they go for 6-7th pick at the deadline. Caps wont be able to do much more without sending contracts out. It's an add without subtracting.




Its ok for you to chirp me but I can't chirp you? Typical toddler attitude and I continue to expect nothing less from you.


And yes, thanks for admitting that I know more about hockey and poutine than you. You're making progress. :uh-huh:


Beagle's contract is not expiring this year, but rather next year.  It's $3m per for the next two years.  The fantasy is that Vancouver would pay that salary this year and NEXT just to unload him.  Yes it happens on occasion and Vancouver is struggling somewhat, but unless they simply have bogus cap space to throw away....why would they pay the bulk of a salary to send Beags packing?  I don't think it is likely.
Or are you suggesting the Caps continue to throw away draft picks for short term rentals.....on a 4th line guy who will have VERY LITTLE real impact?  Take Beags for a pick and VC caries his salary for rest of this year and then you dump him in offseason?  Cause we as shit can't afford Beags at $3m next year.  THAT is NOT what this team needs...and aging 35 year old 4th liner for $3m.  And if you put him on waivers at the end of the season....don't you have to pay a cap penalty for next year?  (That I am not sure about, but I believe putting a player with active contract on waivers results in some cap space penalty for subsequent years of the contract)


How have I proven my hockey knowledge is slim to none?  Just because I disagree with YOU on this topic does not mean I have no hockey knowledge.  It just means I disagree with you.  Why do you have to attack anyone that disagrees with you?  You do it often here, and it's not just me.  Simply state your case and disagree.  (I do realize in THIS case you and I already started down the chirping road road so okay - but that doesn't excuse it for every other time you do it)
I try and use reality in considering and composing my posts.  SO here's a novel idea you can try sometime....try and use some real facts in your discussion.  Like this:  Vancouver has $2.48 in cap space. (I looked it up)  I doubt (my opinion) they'd want to use $3m in throw away for this year (partial) AND all of NEXT to give Beags to the Caps for a 6th round pick...which is why I posted it was fantasy.


The Capitals have ZERO cap space.  Actually they are in the hole on cap space.  They are currently underwater on cap space and that EXCLUDES the $4m in cap space for Kempny and Lundqvist if either returns this year (which I doubt).  This is all real data (facts) you can research and see for yourself.  Explain with your proven hockey IQ how giving up a future asset (trade pick) reduces their salary cap enough to add $3m for Beags next year?  Unless you are unloading another piece...but you said trade 6th rounder for Beags...that does not reduce your cap space next year....unless your fantasy of VC paying two years of salary to unload Beags is true..  That's simply too high a price for the current Caps situation....to add another 4th line guy who will have little impact.


Beags is not worth $3m to THIS TEAM at this time.  That's a fact.  I don't believe he is worth $3m at this point to the Caps if they could afford it - that's my opinion.  Caps have Dowd basically filling that role at literally 1/4 the salary of Beagle.  No, Dowd is not as good as Beagle at many things (my opinion).  But guess what?  The Caps can afford Dowd at $750k a year (fact).  That's actually a pretty good bargain (my opinion).  The Caps cannot afford Beagle at $3m or even at $1.5m (fact).


Same goes with Karl Alzner.  I loved him and he was a very valuable asset to the Caps for many years.  That's my opinion.  The sad fact was when he signed a deal to go elsewhere...he was not worth the salary it would have taken to keep him TO THIS TEAM AT THAT TIME.  Consequently, his play declined more so than I think anyone expected, but that is somewhat irrelevant.  The fact of the matter is as much as we/whoever liked Alzner and would have liked to reward him with a big contract....he was not worth it to the Caps at that time.


Managing the cap Space is a vital part of all of this.  You can't just ignore it (especially the Caps who are so far up against it). 
Wanting a guy like Beags, Needing a guy like Beags, doesn't mean you necessarily get him for what you can afford.  Getting a team to give you a guy and also pay his salary is great, but I don't believe it's reality with Beags.  If VC is blowing up the team and shaving salary and building for the future....Would not a guy like Beags who is a wealth of knowledge and experience and more so a valued work ethic, yet not that big a cap hit and only under contract for the next 2 years be a better piece to keep?  And if you are dumping salary then dump big salary.


I would much rather you suggest something like.."hey IF we could trade piece X or Y, we could do this..."


rather than just attacking anyone who disagrees with you.  I realize I got on your nerves early on about the poutine thing without meaning to and I did apologize for it (and I was a dick back to you in this thread)
but fore Heaven's sake let it go.  Stop being a dick to everyone that disagrees with something you say.


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