Offseason starts

[DC_1908]

   No offense but the Caps have been a threat for a few years now. 2 president cups and a cup in 3 seasons is very impressive. If the Caps could had gotten by the Pens in those 2 seasons there is a good possibility we could have had have had 3 consecutive cups.
     I myself prefer a different style team but they are having success with what they are doing. And in the long run that's what I care about. There is still a handful of players I'd rather not be on this team.
    You keep thinking that a team full of guys like Beagle or your tough guys Olesiak and Reeves is going to win. You need role players like that but you barent going to win with a team full if them.
   

ehhhhh I wouldn’t call any team not getting out of the second round, particularly when the issues identified was attitude, defense, and refusal to adapt/modify a threat, at least a significant one.


As most of us said at the time, caught the Hens, Bolts, and maybe even CBJ flat-footed several games as this is what they where expecting.


Also for the record, The Captian, Probert, Hatcher, Hunter. Shannahan, Simon, D-Mack , Draper, HalpernMadden, Neidimyer, Vladdy, C Lemieux (yuck), where all way Beagle and/or Okesniak types:  attitude, hustle, IQ, and/or intimidatinion and physical play that had an effect on everyone on the ice.  That’s the type of players that will beat the euro/no-hit league style that just want their stats, highlights and paychecks. 


It was shown with our numerous playoff losses  and with our Cup win when the majority of The Caps made a complete 180 and effectively managed to switch their mentality.


To summerize my recent posts, this turnaround, particularly in the last few games  is such a large jump that (if tracked on a graph over 10yrs), would be an annonomy if not an outlyer.  In these cases  data knowledge gives an extermly high probablity of that dropping, and a good chance of it being a drastic amount for several factors.


The typical/best way to sustain jumps like this to objectively see what issues prevented the gradual rise, and replace them with will keep out at our near the point of the anomaly.

The other less desirable way is to cash in and hope it happens again.


Put like this, the first way is clearly more effective, as can be seen by viewing any successful business

[Maacoshark]

ehhhhh I wouldn’t call any team not getting out of the second round, particularly when the issues identified was attitude, defense, and refusal to adapt/modify a threat, at least a significant one.


As most of us said at the time, caught the Hens, Bolts, and maybe even CBJ flat-footed several games as this is what they where expecting.


Also for the record, The Captian, Probert, Hatcher, Hunter. Shannahan, Simon, D-Mack , Draper, HalpernMadden, Neidimyer, Vladdy, C Lemieux (yuck), where all way Beagle and/or Okesniak types:  attitude, hustle, IQ, and/or intimidatinion and physical play that had an effect on everyone on the ice.  That’s the type of players that will beat the euro/no-hit league style that just want their stats, highlights and paychecks. 


It was shown with our numerous playoff losses  and with our Cup win when the majority of The Caps made a complete 180 and effectively managed to switch their mentality.


To summerize my recent posts, this turnaround, particularly in the last few games  is such a large jump that (if tracked on a graph over 10yrs), would be an annonomy if not an outlyer.  In these cases  data knowledge gives an extermly high probablity of that dropping, and a good chance of it being a drastic amount for several factors.


The typical/best way to sustain jumps like this to objectively see what issues prevented the gradual rise, and replace them with will keep out at our near the point of the anomaly.

The other less desirable way is to cash in and hope it happens again.


Put like this, the first way is clearly more effective, as can be seen by viewing any successful business

   And if you put those guys together in a lineup they would win nothing. You need role players like this but you arent going to win with a roster full of them. Some of those guys you mentioned werent even good 2 way players. I noticed some of the players that you mentioned were players that sometimes crossed the line. I dont mean a borderline hit. I mean some premeditated dirty stuff. Got to be honest I dont like most of those players that you mentioned.

[DC_1908]

   And if you put those guys together in a lineup they would win nothing. You need role players like this but you arent going to win with a roster full of them. Some of those guys you mentioned werent even good 2 way players. I noticed some of the players that you mentioned were players that sometimes crossed the line. I dont mean a borderline hit. I mean some premeditated dirty stuff. Got to be honest I dont like most of those players that you mentioned.

i’m not talking about playing “today’s gane” i’m talking about beating it.  Even if includes deliberately and systematically, “crossing the line”  on occasion.

Just look at last year. VGK was almost entirely just a bunch of “3rd-4th line role playing Beagle like trash” and made to the Cup finals,.  The Caos played one of their best gamer with a bunch of AHLwrs working their ass off and playing right.  Both of which, while not to the level I’m suggesting, are along the lines i’m suggesting. 


Any trend is made up of ebs and flows, where the ebs seem permanent.  The flow of is slowly starting, i’m saying beat everyone else to it.

[Maacoshark]

i’m not talking about playing “today’s gane” i’m talking about beating it.  Even if includes deliberately and systematically, “crossing the line”  on occasion.

Just look at last year. VGK was almost entirely just a bunch of “3rd-4th line role playing Beagle like trash” and made to the Cup finals,.  The Caos played one of their best gamer with a bunch of AHLwrs working their ass off and playing right.  Both of which, while not to the level I’m suggesting, are along the lines i’m suggesting. 


Any trend is made up of ebs and flows, where the ebs seem permanent.  The flow of is slowly starting, i’m saying beat everyone else to it.

     Sorry but I dont believe in crossing the line. There should be some respect towards other players. Deliberately trying injure someone is unacceptable. Some of these guys have done that.
    Vegas wasnt just role players. They have some offensive talent on the team. They are actually a speed team. They aren't Beagle like players. Was Vegas that good or did they ride a hot goalie? The Caps made them look pretty ordinary in the finals. We beat them in 5 games. Could have possibly swept them if not for the missed crosscheck by Reeves on a goal he scored to tie game 1. Still have no clue how they missed that.

[DC_1908]

     Sorry but I dont believe in crossing the line. There should be some respect towards other players. Deliberately trying injure someone is unacceptable. Some of these guys have done that.
    Vegas wasnt just role players. They have some offensive talent on the team. They are actually a speed team. They aren't Beagle like players. Was Vegas that good or did they ride a hot goalie? The Caps made them look pretty ordinary in the finals. We beat them in 5 games. Could have possibly swept them if not for the missed crosscheck by Reeves on a goal he scored to tie game 1. Still have no clue how they missed that.

While no one wants see someone (not on the Hens, or named otherwise named Lemieux) get hurt , . . .its can be an effective tactic that can cause a ripple effect including forces changes in line up, system, depth chart, call ups (which could involve waivers),  that can go down  to their AHL teams. . . 


It is can be viewed as cruel etc.  but applied in a formula it makes sense.   Unless your playing a team with  Darren McCarty on it  (ask CLemiieux).


But, Vegas was full of  Beagle like players.  Karlsson, R Smith, Tuch, England, McNab 3rd or 4th liners/3rd pairings that no one cared about because they dont toe-drag, sell jerseys, and where the 3rd line trash of teams.  I won't say they looked ordinary in the playoffs, unless ordinary is the worst they've ever played.  I would  most of that loss on Gallant (I should of added him above, damn he was a hell of player).  Trotz clearly saw what LA did, and came up with a plan to slow them down.  Gallent responded by continuing to "ride the white horse" and made minimal if no adjustments to what they've done all year, (probably betting the Caps would self destruct on their own)


On the other topic, by beagle like, I meant, smart, excelling in defense, hard working, intense, and versatile players that do more than sell tickets, nor care about it    You seem to forget that (at least pre-injury) Beagle was one of the fastest skaters (drill wise), and one of the strongest on the team (verified by a member of the training staff).  He also put up plenty of points when he was with Wilson and Winnik and could contribute offensively as needed (like the great pass for DSPs in the last game).   He had to do A LOT of the grunt work for this to team to have success which hurt his stats and eyeball-tests

[KitFisto]

Advocating for injuries is just pitiful.

[Mickstix]

NHL isn't letting anyone cheap shot/intimidate the other teams anymore.. Even Wilson, who's a clean hard hitter, gets singled out.. You put a team full of that on the ice and the NHL will have a field day ruining the "system to beat the system".. Anyway, I thought what got all this started was debating what a champ/chump McPhee was?  The "BPA extraordinaire" GM.. 

[DC_1908]

Advocating for injuries is just pitiful.

just a tactic, and formula to use against a team, organization and opponentt. 


It’s just business.  A simple formula, no more, no less

[DC_1908]

NHL isn't letting anyone cheap shot/intimidate the other teams anymore.. Even Wilson, who's a clean hard hitter, gets singled out.. You put a team full of that on the ice and the NHL will have a field day ruining the "system to beat the system".. Anyway, I thought what got all this started was debating what a champ/chump McPhee was?  The "BPA extraordinaire" GM.. 

Fuck the NHL.  If someone gets suspended, have the plan in place to bring the next guy up.


But hey, outta Monumentalscontrol, he set records, won a Confrence, and made the Finals in one year and faced about 15 of his picks and/or signings

[Maacoshark]

While no one wants see someone (not on the Hens, or named otherwise named Lemieux) get hurt , . . .its can be an effective tactic that can cause a ripple effect including forces changes in line up, system, depth chart, call ups (which could involve waivers),  that can go down  to their AHL teams. . . 


It is can be viewed as cruel etc.  but applied in a formula it makes sense.   Unless your playing a team with  Darren McCarty on it  (ask CLemiieux).


But, Vegas was full of  Beagle like players.  Karlsson, R Smith, Tuch, England, McNab 3rd or 4th liners/3rd pairings that no one cared about because they dont toe-drag, sell jerseys, and where the 3rd line trash of teams.  I won't say they looked ordinary in the playoffs, unless ordinary is the worst they've ever played.  I would  most of that loss on Gallant (I should of added him above, damn he was a hell of player).  Trotz clearly saw what LA did, and came up with a plan to slow them down.  Gallent responded by continuing to "ride the white horse" and made minimal if no adjustments to what they've done all year, (probably betting the Caps would self destruct on their own)


On the other topic, by beagle like, I meant, smart, excelling in defense, hard working, intense, and versatile players that do more than sell tickets, nor care about it    You seem to forget that (at least pre-injury) Beagle was one of the fastest skaters (drill wise), and one of the strongest on the team (verified by a member of the training staff).  He also put up plenty of points when he was with Wilson and Winnik and could contribute offensively as needed (like the great pass for DSPs in the last game).   He had to do A LOT of the grunt work for this to team to have success which hurt his stats and eyeball-tests

    Beagle is smart and a hard worker. If he wasnt he wouldn't be in the NHL. He still is nothing more than a 4th liner. He isn't as good defensively as you might think.
     Why dont you include Stephenson when you talk about hard working guys. He is so good defensively, especially for a player his age. He also has a good hockey IQ. And he is a very good skater. Might be the fastest skater on the team. I'd like to see him more aggressive in the offensive zone though. He is already a better player than Beagle. The only thing Beagle does better is faceoffs

[DC_1908]

    Beagle is smart and a hard worker. If he wasnt he wouldn't be in the NHL. He still is nothing more than a 4th liner. He isn't as good defensively as you might think.
     Why dont you include Stephenson when you talk about hard working guys. He is so good defensively, especially for a player his age. He also has a good hockey IQ. And he is a very good skater. Might be the fastest skater on the team. I'd like to see him more aggressive in the offensive zone though. He is already a better player than Beagle. The only thing Beagle does better is faceoffs

Stevenson is great, but he ain’t Beagle good yet.


I still don’t see why you hate Beagle so much.  Did you hate Draper and Madden too? Because the about the only difference is they didn’t have have to do all the work on a offense first team with two other centers that can’t play D

[Maacoshark]

Stevenson is great, but he ain’t Beagle good yet.


I still don’t see why you hate Beagle so much.  Did you hate Draper and Madden too? Because the about the only difference is they didn’t have have to do all the work on a offense first team with two other centers that can’t play D

     Sorry but Stephenson is already a better all round player than Beagle is.
I dont hate Beagle. I actually like him. I just dont think he is as good as you make him out to be. He wasnt the savior of our team He was a role player. Pk and faceoff specialist. He is oprobably the furthest thing away from a 2way player there is. Most of his time is spent in the defensive zone. No I didnt hate Draper or Madden either. Similar type players. They were good role players. Better 2way players than Beagle. Better defensively too.

[Maacoshark]

Stevenson is great, but he ain’t Beagle good yet.


I still don’t see why you hate Beagle so much.  Did you hate Draper and Madden too? Because the about the only difference is they didn’t have have to do all the work on a offense first team with two other centers that can’t play D

      Which centers are you saying can't play d? They are all defensively responsible although Kuzy is below average defensively. I would say Eller is at least average defensively. And Backstrom is solid. I would rank Beagle 2nd behind Backstrom.
   Beagle might not have even been our 2nd best defensive center last season. He had his struggles in the defensive zone and on the pk last season.

[DC_1908]

      Which centers are you saying can't play d? They are all defensively responsible although Kuzy is below average defensively. I would say Eller is at least average defensively. And Backstrom is solid. I would rank Beagle 2nd behind Backstrom.
   Beagle might not have even been our 2nd best defensive center last season. He had his struggles in the defensive zone and on the pk last season.

Both Kurt and Eller.  Eller is effective when he feels like it, but more than likely neither of those two will ever be mentioned in Sellers if not assigned as s shutout center if other are available.


But yea Backstom is execlllent.  Between he a Beagle, i was who was 1 & 2 depended on situation. and matchup 

[BlackIce]

I would only comment that, with the Caps having a one goal lead in the clinching Stanley Cup final game, the forwards on the ice during the last 45 seconds of the game were Eller, Kuznetsov, and Wilson.  The defensemen were Niskanen and Orpik.

[DC_1908]

I would only comment that, with the Caps having a one goal lead in the clinching Stanley Cup final game, the forwards on the ice during the last 45 seconds of the game were Eller, Kuznetsov, and Wilson.  The defensemen were Niskanen and Orpik.

and we were lucky they put Wilson out there to make up for those two.


To apply that being on the ice with a one goal lead when up 3-1 in a series, when a goalie would be pulled, with a better unit ready to , equals them being even average defensive players is just  grasping at straws to support naive heroworship

[4 Caps]

Actually, Trotz often times matched Kuzy against the top center of the opposing team.  For example, against Edmonton Kuzy was consistently up against McDavid and more than held his own.  Kuzy is much better defensively than people give him credit for. 

[Maacoshark]

and we were lucky they put Wilson out there to make up for those two.


To apply that being on the ice with a one goal lead when up 3-1 in a series, when a goalie would be pulled, with a better unit ready to , equals them being even average defensive players is just  grasping at straws to support naive heroworship

     Maybe those players are better defensively than you think. Trotz did use Eller quite often in defensive situations. Surprised Kuzy would be out there though. I think you evaluation on players might be a bit inaccurate because you are so bias towards a certain type of player.

[DC_1908]

Actually, Trotz often times matched Kuzy against the top center of the opposing team.  For example, against Edmonton Kuzy was consistently up against McDavid and more than held his own.  Kuzy is much better defensively than people give him credit for.

well he can’t play Beagle all game now can he?

[Beaglefan2]

Maaco - Beagle was obviously my favorite player for years - mainly due to his desire and work ethic. Every team needs the guy that made the most of his skill set by sheer hard work and desire and Jay was that guy.  At one point I hoped that he would transition to a consistent 20+ goal scorer, but he just didn't quite have the hands. He more than made up for it in other ways.


I am really hoping Stephenson is the next Beagle, and that he can be that 20+ scorer.  I think he has the hands and the skill set, and as he matures his confidence should increase. If he has Beagle's work ethic, he really could be great.