Offseason starts

[Devise]

   Except Carey wasnt a vezina calibre goaltender. He had one decent season. His numbers weren't even over the top the season that he won the vezina. He really wasn't a very good goalie. After we traded him, his numbers were terrible. He ended up back in the AHL.

If you guys are referring to CAREY PRICE one of the best goalies to play the game currently playing in Montreal I don't really know what to tell you. Not a Vezina caliber goalie? Also he never played for us. Perhaps your talking about another player.


Also Alta, don't get crazy. While I agree Mitch Korn is a fantastic goalie coach, and it's a tough loss for us...it's not the end of the world. Let us not ourselves here. While this team certainly still has problems, regardless of who the goalie coach is Braden Holtby is absolutely not one of them.

[BlackIce]

If you guys are referring to CAREY PRICE one of the best goalies to play the game currently playing in Montreal I don't really know what to tell you. Not a Vezina caliber goalie? Also he never played for us. Perhaps your talking about another player.


Also Alta, don't get crazy. While I agree Mitch Korn is a fantastic goalie coach, and it's a tough loss for us...it's not the end of the world. Let us not ourselves here. While this team certainly still has problems, regardless of who the goalie coach is Braden Holtby is absolutely not one of them.

The discussion was about former Caps goalie Jim Carey, Devise.


Interestingly, there are now 43 players that have filed for arbitration in the NHL by today's deadline, and Tom Wilson is NOT one of them.  The only Cap that filed for arbitration is Liam O'Brien, and I can't imagine that that arbitration case is going to make anybody lose sleep.  I presume that Wilson didn't file because he sees promise in ongoing negotiations.  Maybe a longer-term deal WILL be worked out with him. 

[alta]

If you guys are referring to CAREY PRICE one of the best goalies to play the game currently playing in Montreal I don't really know what to tell you. Not a Vezina caliber goalie? Also he never played for us. Perhaps your talking about another player.


Also Alta, don't get crazy. While I agree Mitch Korn is a fantastic goalie coach, and it's a tough loss for us...it's not the end of the world. Let us not ourselves here. While this team certainly still has problems, regardless of who the goalie coach is Braden Holtby is absolutely not one of them.

   My concern is Korn seems to be one of the few goalie coaches the Caps have had that has a good influence on Holts, thus my concern over coaching Holts. If it weren't obvious that Holts benefits greatly from Korns coaching style there would be no great concern.


and who's getting crazy??

[Maacoshark]

   My concern is Korn seems to be one of the few goalie coaches the Caps have had that has a good influence on Holts, thus my concern over coaching Holts. If it weren't obvious that Holts benefits greatly from Korns coaching style there would be no great concern.


and who's getting crazy??

   I agree. Holtby is a different goalie with Korn around.

[Devise]

I'm not saying he's not shown he's different when Korn has been around. However, I do think Holts isn't given enough credit for maturing. This feels like old water at this point. Like yes, when Trotz and co first showed up Holtby had a lot of goalie coach problems and re-figuring himself out to do. But that was 4 seasons ago. He's had Vezinas, deep playoff runs, clutch playoff performances, and now a Cup sense then.


At a certain point Holtby is going to turn into a Marty Broduer type here, and be the type of goalie that doesn't need to be babysat to help carry his team. I guess I just don't think Korn is nearly as important as he used to be, specific to Holtby.

[BlackIce]

I'm not saying he's not shown he's different when Korn has been around. However, I do think Holts isn't given enough credit for maturing. This feels like old water at this point. Like yes, when Trotz and co first showed up Holtby had a lot of goalie coach problems and re-figuring himself out to do. But that was 4 seasons ago. He's had Vezinas, deep playoff runs, clutch playoff performances, and now a Cup sense then.


At a certain point Holtby is going to turn into a Marty Broduer type here, and be the type of goalie that doesn't need to be babysat to help carry his team. I guess I just don't think Korn is nearly as important as he used to be, specific to Holtby.

In any sport there are some people who seem to "do things naturally" and may seem to be independent of coaching, while others "tend to go off their game periodically" and need to be put or kept on track.  For the latter kind of athlete, some can work well with almost any competent coach; others seem to mesh with particular people/personalities (and some never seem to find anyone from whom they can productively take direction.)  Whatever type of person Holtby is, he's simply going to react to the change from Korn if/when it occurs.  Even if Korn has been able to "get through" to Holtby in a beneficial way, nothing says there can't be someone else who can connect with him in the same way.  It seems to me that, since a goalie coach focuses on one or two people, THAT coach might be one where not only the head coach, but at least the starting goalie, should have some input regarding the hire. 


The only constant is change.

[BlackIce]

Two comments:


(1)  it appears that Korn wasn't all that influential to Holtby this past season anyway.  He apparently had turned over the goaltending coach position to Murray and was around only in an advisory capacity.  How much he may have come "out of the woodwork" to turn Holtby around for the playoffs we don't know.  But Braden's season was what it was.


(2)  It was announced that Wilson declined arbitration before Thursday's deadline.  But there was an analogous deadline the next day for the team to choose arbitration if it wanted.  I have heard nothing about whether or not the team chose to request arbitration with Wilson, and we know that they'd prefer to sign him to a long-term deal, but the arbitration would be a fallback (I understand that the parties can continue to negotiate until the actual arbitration hearing occurrs.)  I presume, since there has been no word, that the team did not invoke arbitration, but it would be nice to have some confirmation of that.

[Mickstix]

If neither party requests arbitration, does that allow Wilson to become unrestricted if they don't reach a deal? I suppose if that's the case, the Caps would never let it get to that.. When is the deadline for arbitration? Or is there one?

[4 Caps]

If neither party requests arbitration, does that allow Wilson to become unrestricted if they don't reach a deal? I suppose if that's the case, the Caps would never let it get to that.. When is the deadline for arbitration? Or is there one?

The deadline for arbitration has past for both the player and team.  From what I have been reading they are close to signing a long term deal.  The only leverage Wilson has now is to hold out if an agreement is not reached.  He does not become an UFA.  I am confident a deal will get done soon maybe this week. 

[dpf1971]

The deadline for arbitration has past for both the player and team.  From what I have been reading they are close to signing a long term deal.  The only leverage Wilson has now is to hold out if an agreement is not reached.  He does not become an UFA.  I am confident a deal will get done soon maybe this week.

Soooo, correct me if I am wrong - but the only way we could lose Wilson (this upcoming season) is if he DID file for arbitration, allowed it to go that level and then the Club decided not to pay what the arbitrator decided what a fair deal would have been ... then he would become a UFA, right?  So right now, since Wilson did not apply for arbitration, he can either work a deal with the Club or not play NHL hockey  (or the Caps can trade his "rights").


PS - please Caps, resign LOB ... if he's getting better, he's exactly the kind of guy we need on the 4th line.

[4 Caps]

Soooo, correct me if I am wrong - but the only way we could lose Wilson (this upcoming season) is if he DID file for arbitration, allowed it to go that level and then the Club decided not to pay what the arbitrator decided what a fair deal would have been ... then he would become a UFA, right?  So right now, since Wilson did not apply for arbitration, he can either work a deal with the Club or not play NHL hockey  (or the Caps can trade his "rights").


PS - please Caps, resign LOB ... if he's getting better, he's exactly the kind of guy we need on the 4th line.

You are correct, if Wilson had filed for arbitration and won and if the amount awarded was over a certain amount, I am not sure what that figure is, the Caps could decline the contract and Wilson would become a free agent. 

[Devise]

Yeah Wilson not filing is great for us. He has no intention of going anywhere else and they clearly want to get a long term deal locked up so we don't have to worry about his contract for seasons. I think we'll sign him for sure, no problems. Just about figuring out the term I'd imagine, and less the salary. We probably want 5+ years of him, and I can't blame BMGM for that. Right now Wilson is probably one of our biggest grit pieces that we can't afford to lose. And I imagine Wilsons agent wants a bit more money (especially in later seasons) if he's going to give up so many seasons term wise.

[BlackIce]

There is one other conceivable way that the Caps could lose Wilson.  And that is if some other team signed him to an offer sheet that the Capitals could not or would not match.  Then he would belong to the other team and the Caps would be due compensation based on the AAV of the offer sheet.


This is a tactic rarely tried and almost never successful.  The only possible concern that it COULD conceivably happen is that at this point, Wilson is pretty much a unique talent in the league (a tough guy who appears to have grown into a legitimate top-6 forward).  Because of that, some team might conceivably take a run at him (pun intended).

[Mickstix]

Do they (another team) just have to make the offer, or would Wilson have to agree/sign the offer, before the Caps would have to match it?

[OldHat]

Do they (another team) just have to make the offer, or would Wilson have to agree/sign the offer, before the Caps would have to match it?

He would have to accept the offer sheet...

[Mickstix]

Cool, so some crappy/cap friendly team can't just throw out a number knowing Wilson wouldn't want to to play there, but make us pay it.. Makes sense. 

[DC_1908]

I'm not saying he's not shown he's different when Korn has been around. However, I do think Holts isn't given enough credit for maturing. This feels like old water at this point. Like yes, when Trotz and co first showed up Holtby had a lot of goalie coach problems and re-figuring himself out to do. But that was 4 seasons ago. He's had Vezinas, deep playoff runs, clutch playoff performances, and now a Cup sense then.


At a certain point Holtby is going to turn into a Marty Broduer type here, and be the type of goalie that doesn't need to be babysat to help carry his team. I guess I just don't think Korn is nearly as important as he used to be, specific to Holtby.

I was thinking, (to say this is sarcastic fiction is an under statement), I’d be dam cool if they gave Korn the head coaching job. . . He could still work with Holts for a few minutes a month and train his replacement goalie coach so we’d another elite goalie coach. He could also design a goalie based  based system to not only protect him from shots, but he could also assist in identifying the weakness of the other goalies and have a system that can be adjusted to take the shots specifically at them.


Now they already do this, but a position coach does not have the power to adjust the system and game plan of a head coach.


Now this sounds interesting and all, but it would never happen. Particularly here.


Besides, I can think of a Goalie coach that’s been made a head coach.  Hell Roy is the former goalie to have a head coach job that I can think of . . .


But like I said this is just a “what if”

[Maacoshark]

I was thinking, (to say this is sarcastic fiction is an under statement), I’d be dam cool if they gave Korn the head coaching job. . . He could still work with Holts for a few minutes a month and train his replacement goalie coach so we’d another elite goalie coach. He could also design a goalie based  based system to not only protect him from shots, but he could also assist in identifying the weakness of the other goalies and have a system that can be adjusted to take the shots specifically at them.


Now they already do this, but a position coach does not have the power to adjust the system and game plan of a head coach.


Now this sounds interesting and all, but it would never happen. Particularly here.


Besides, I can think of a Goalie coach that’s been made a head coach.  Hell Roy is the former goalie to have a head coach job that I can think of . . .


But like I said this is just a “what if”

      I've always wondered why more goalies hadn't become head coaches. Who sees more of what happens on the ice than the goalie. You can see plays developed from the goalie position. An exgoalie that I think would make a good coach is Kelly Hrudey. He seems to really know the game inside out.

[DC_1908]

      I've always wondered why more goalies hadn't become head coaches. Who sees more of what happens on the ice than the goalie. You can see plays developed from the goalie position. An exgoalie that I think would make a good coach is Kelly Hrudey. He seems to really know the game inside out.

Exactly.   i can only speculate a goaltender coach is such a specialized position that movement to even assistant is difficult and/or rarely desired.


Or maybe the cliche term “Goalie World” is true for most.  Hell Ron Hextall is the only one I can think of that is in  the force office.

[canadiancapman]

Patrick Roy was a head coach in Colorado a couple of seasons, won the jack Adams. Martin brodure is currently an assistant gm with the st.louis blues