Author Topic: Who Would You Keep??  (Read 10386 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dpf1971

  • Advanced Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2320
  • Likes: 327
Who Would You Keep??
« on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 01:50:22 AM Eastern »
Backstrom - Keep or Trade if you can get something big back (or need the cap space for the right UFA)
Beagle - Keep
Burakovsky - (if he can regain his form CONSISTENTLY) Keep - if not, Trade
Chiasson - Trade
Connolly - Trade (or keep b/c of Cap Space)
Eller - Keep (unless we can upgrade like Brassard)
Kuznetzov - Keep
Oshie - Keep
Ovechkin - Trade
Smith-Pelly - Trade
Stepehenson - Trade
Vrana - (if he can regain his form CONSISTENTLY) Keep - if not, Trade
Wilson - KEEP


Bowey - AHL or Trade
Carlson - Keep
Djoos - AHL or Trade
Jerabek - Don't Know Yet
Kempny - Don't Know Yet
Niskanen - Keep
Orlov - Trade
Orpik - Keep for last year of his contract and not resign


Grubauer - Keep or Trade for HUGE piece
Holtby - Keep


So that would leave us with:


   ?     Backstrom/???     Oshie
   ?      Kuznetsov          Wilson
  Connolly/Upgrade   Eller/Upgrade    ?
   ?      Beagle                ?
Stephenson


   ?   Carlson
   ?   Niskanen
Orpik(2018)   ?     (maybe Kempny or Jerabek)


UFA's available in the next two years or guys I would like to trade for:
2018 UFA - Rick Nash LW, Paul Stastny C, John Tavares C, Evander Kane LW, James Neal LW, Jack Johnson D left-handed, James Van Riemsdyk LW, Dan Hamhius D left-handed, David Perron LW, Mark Stone RW, Calvin de Haan D left-handed, Ryan Reaves RW.
2019 UFA - Drew Doughty D right-handed, Erik Karlsson D right-handed, Artemi Panarin LW right-handed, Logan Couture C, Matt Duchene C, Jordan Eberle RW, Joe Pavelski C, Tyler Seguin C, Jeff Skinner LW, Blake Wheeler RW, Oliver Ekman-Larsson D left-handed, Tyler Myers D right-handed, Gustav Nyquist RW, Ryan McDonagh D left-handed, Max Pacioretty LW, Anton Stralman D left-handed, Niklas Hjalmarsson D left-handed, Adam Henrique C, Wayne Simmonds RW, Anders Lee C, Adam McQuaid D right-handed,   


And while the money wouldn't probably be available; this could happen (at least on paper):


Pacioretty   Seguin   Oshie


Panarin  Kuznetsov   Wilson


Connolly   Brassard   Simmonds


(Matt) Martin   Beagle   Reaves




McDonagh   Carlson


Hamhuis    Niskanen


Stralman  McQuaid


(here's to hoping for a much higher salary cap)
« Last Edit: Friday March 16, 2018, 11:05:01 PM Eastern by ArJunaZ »

Maacoshark

  • Guest
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 07:42:56 AM Eastern »
Lol thats some pretty wishful thinking.

Offline DC_1908

  • Chairman of the Boards
  • Global Moderator
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 15306
  • Likes: 2080
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 09:11:37 AM Eastern »

Before any moves are made Dickless and BetaMale need to go. All they would do is get bent over a barrel, and sign/draft more Eurotrash toedraggers and puck-movers.   

When and if that is done, unless it’s a Hershel Walker or Gretzky-esque deal, we should keep Nick and Ovie until they don’t resign.  While we could get something for them, that window it would be a detramental to the franchises credibility to the point of it needing to be moved.

Think about it, an opertunity for a 700+ goal scorer to play his whole career with The Caps, and we were so incompetent we needed to trade him after 600. . .

But after that, keep/resign Willie, Beagle, Holtby and have a damn fire sale if not a U235 martini (shaken not stored).  Adapt the trade to early before two late (ie Nick and Ovie), load up on pickes/prospects/young players and repeat the cycle each year.

Bottom line is Willie, Beagle, and Holts are about the only players that will help win a Cup.


 Now the Chaissons and Pellys could or may be, but they are constricted by the system and trying to keep a spot to the Eurotrash style players.  That being said, NO HIGH DOLLAR SUPERSTAR UFAs (that aren’t rentals), load up forwards with verstile 200 ft role players that will give 100% and scrape up 15-20pts that you can pay a 3rd of what you pay a 40+ euro-skill player.
And D, scrap the “4th forward Offensive Dman” crap.  That trend is done, and their salaries are too high.  Target the hybrid or pure stay at home style and leave that crap behind.


This is not basically what successful teams with out star power do or are going to, like VGK, Winnipeg, LA, and to some extent TBL.  It’s also catching on if you look at FLA, and Ottawa, DET and NYR are probably starting it.


Offline Mickstix

  • Wait, Im the Redneck? Damn right! Fish on!
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 19023
  • Likes: 1736
  • Fish On!
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 09:30:07 AM Eastern »

Keep: Ovie, Wilson, Holtby


Trade: The rest.


Online alta

  • I don't swing that way
  • Global Moderator
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 21548
  • Likes: 2388
  • just say no, to socialism
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 03:58:12 PM Eastern »
I agree with DC here, the first move has got to be front office and head coach or everything else will be pointless
Knowledge is knowing that the Tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is knowing that you shouldn't include it in a Fruit Salad; Philosophy is wondering if a Bloody Mary counts as smoothie

"Oh bother" said Poo, as he chambered another round

Offline Pavel095

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 547
  • Likes: 32
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 04:36:30 PM Eastern »
Agree with DC :thumbsup:


Trading Ovi who is a legend and who scored 600 goals,whould be the worst decision ever.

Maacoshark

  • Guest
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 06:44:49 PM Eastern »
  I agree with DC too. We need to keep some skill players obviously but this team is way too soft. I'd keep Ovi and Backstrom until they are dead. I'd keep Holtby and Wilson too. I'm really liking Wilson's game. Some people think we shouldn't have taken him in the cfirst round. I'm glad we did. Guys like that are getting harder to find.
   Anyone else is expendable. I do like Stephenson. He could be a keeper if he continues to develope. DSP and Chiasson are hard workers. It would be nice if they had a bit more touch.

Offline dpf1971

  • Advanced Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2320
  • Likes: 327
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 06:45:14 PM Eastern »
I get the idea of removing the front office - but like coaches; who do we replace them with?  Ovie's already been labeled a coach-killer; what management team better than what we already have be tempted to come here?  I know player and systems - not GM's I'm afraid.

And why do you trade Ovie?  First off, how pissed off do you think Ovie is right now?  Russia finally won gold in men's hockey and he wasn't there.  And while Russians love winning the Cup, to them the biggest award is the gold medal and he will probably never get one .... though his buddies Datsyuk and Kovalchuck did.  We better keep a close eye on him b/c of the possibility of him just heading home. 
Secondly, his contract.  It is a team killer.  Is his 50-or-so goals worth it via the market, yes.  But if you can get more in the way of quality players, then I would go that route.  How many playoffs do we have to watch where the other team double-teams, or whatever, Ovie and our goal productions goes down the pisser.  I'm not in hockey, but even I can think that one up.  I'd just rather have two 60-70 pointers that will show up ever shift and play D than just Ovie.
Third - I kind of just touched on it.  His attitude.  In no way should he be the captain.  How often do we see him not show up.  How often does the term glide-by be used in reference to his idea of team-D.  And while all of this bullshit is going on, you are barking at the likes of Wilson and Eller to keep them skating at 110%.  Sooner or later that starts to kill the locker room - which a couple of ex-Caps have already hinted at.


Maacoshark

  • Guest
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 08:45:19 PM Eastern »
   In the past Ovi may have been a coach killer but Trotz has him playing good hockey. He is a lot more defensively responsible than he was in the past. Thats why I hope we keep Trotz and give him some players to work with.

Offline OldHat

  • King Jackass
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 12359
  • Likes: 2149
  • One Foot in the Grave
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 09:04:12 PM Eastern »
Trade dpf...
What's up babes...

Offline Pavel095

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 547
  • Likes: 32
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 09:24:05 PM Eastern »
   In the past Ovi may have been a coach killer but Trotz has him playing good hockey. He is a lot more defensively responsible than he was in the past. Thats why I hope we keep Trotz and give him some players to work with.


Definitely,the point is that Ovi right now more completed player as before,just look at his assist stats at the age 32 and compare it to Sidney :rofl:
The main root cause is in General Management ,thus as soon as they fix it more better players will be and overall results.

Offline DC_1908

  • Chairman of the Boards
  • Global Moderator
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 15306
  • Likes: 2080
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 09:47:58 PM Eastern »
I get the idea of removing the front office - but like coaches; who do we replace them with?  Ovie's already been labeled a coach-killer; what management team better than what we already have be tempted to come here?  I know player and systems - not GM's I'm afraid.

And why do you trade Ovie?  First off, how pissed off do you think Ovie is right now?  Russia finally won gold in men's hockey and he wasn't there.  And while Russians love winning the Cup, to them the biggest award is the gold medal and he will probably never get one .... though his buddies Datsyuk and Kovalchuck did.  We better keep a close eye on him b/c of the possibility of him just heading home. 
Secondly, his contract.  It is a team killer.  Is his 50-or-so goals worth it via the market, yes.  But if you can get more in the way of quality players, then I would go that route.  How many playoffs do we have to watch where the other team double-teams, or whatever, Ovie and our goal productions goes down the pisser.  I'm not in hockey, but even I can think that one up.  I'd just rather have two 60-70 pointers that will show up ever shift and play D than just Ovie.
Third - I kind of just touched on it.  His attitude.  In no way should he be the captain.  How often do we see him not show up.  How often does the term glide-by be used in reference to his idea of team-D.  And while all of this bullshit is going on, you are barking at the likes of Wilson and Eller to keep them skating at 110%.  Sooner or later that starts to kill the locker room - which a couple of ex-Caps have already hinted at.
Well, let me check on Monster for GMs . . .  heh i jest.


I really don't care about the name, but if it where my choice it'd be first, someone from outside the organization . . .other than that, ta new Pres and his GM would need to have an immense and detailed knowledge of the team, division and conference, with an grand strategy of how to beat everyone in it . . . and mostly, which goes with both of them do what ever it takes.


As far as Ovie,when you said it 5 years ago it was quite brilliant.  We could of gotten a mint for him.  But the realty is, he's over 30, and his faults, and contract that you accurately brought up are known through out the league more than we know it.  If he does that for a typically high seed playoff team that has built the organization around him, . . .what we he do if he was traded somewhere else, like say Phoenix?  Or how could another contending team fir his contract under there Cap with out sending in back to us. . .


About the only realistic destination to increase his effort, give us a worth while return and rejuvenate him is Vegas. . .but that that is still unlikely.


So  that trading him now, and getting fair return and cap space from it (ire not being like Jagr when we said "please anyone take him", the choice is pretty clear.  He's said all the "right things" a Captain and star will say, like hell with the individual stats, the Cup is most imprortant, yada yada yadda, . . call him out on it.


And support this by scrapping a system that is solely based on giving him a one timer from the slot.  Demand and force him to be a complete player, play him both sides, make him kill penalties, have him screen the net on the Power Plays, . . .and most importantly, make him hit again!!


A significant part of his issues HAS to be the result, even if subconscious of this organization making everything about him.  If the fascination of one way forwards, puck moving Dman, and video game systems this organization is not significantly for Ovie, and his 700 (along with the income), then Patrick and his staff have no business running a Home Depot let alone a NHL team.


So, take that away.  Hell get his goal regardless, but either he becomes a complete player. . .or we use him  a decoy til he goes to the KHL.


Its a pretty shitty situation in terms of getting a Cup winning team. . . .  but the 700+ marketing campaign is doing great  >:(


Maacoshark

  • Guest
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 09:58:17 PM Eastern »

Definitely,the point is that Ovi right now more completed player as before,just look at his assist stats at the age 32 and compare it to Sidney :rofl:
The main root cause is in General Management ,thus as soon as they fix it more better players will be and overall results.
  You are only allowed to mention Crosby if you are shitting on him. I think the majority if Caps fans hate Crosby.

Offline BlackIce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 775
  • Likes: 92
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 10:04:45 PM Eastern »
What you'd like to do is fine, but it is what it is -- pie in the sky.  What you CAN do is quite different.  The Caps have certain contracts that no one else will take on.  You cannot move these players.  As for who you bring in as replacements:  Are they available?  At what cost?  Do they want to come here?  Sure, everyone may have a price, but that is what gets you in Salary Cap purgatory.  Do the pieces really fit into a coherent whole?  That's always a tough call. 


I suspect that the Caps are going to make a continued push to resign Carlson, if for no other reason, who would pick up his 24 minutes a game?  That is going to cost something elsewhere on the roster.  I think the pieces like Chaisson and Smith-Pelly are fungible -- they'll be back if they're willing to sign cheap; otherwise, the Caps will replace them with someone else off the discard pile, and there are always such players lying around.  I think Beagle may be gone, with Stephenson taking his place as 4C, just to save a million bucks on the Salary Cap.  That one more year on Orpik's contract is a big problem right now.  If he were coming off the books this summer instead of next, the organization would be in much better shape.  Maybe he should be bought out, but I think the organization has a fundamental aversion to doing that.  A big question mark is Grubauer.  He could be a valuable trade piece, but he is valuable as a co #1 goalie, and he is still an RFA.  I'd almost be tempted to trade Holtby, stick with Grubauer as #1 for the time being and sign a cheap veteran backup goalie (which there are always a few floating around), and bridge to Samsanov that way.  I think the Caps are going to stick with Vrana and Burakovsky for the time being, thinking they might be  like Marcus Johansson -- there's more there with both, and they fit well in the contemporary game.



As for last night's Ottawa game:  Yes, it wasn't too pretty.  But keep in mind that it was a back-to-back for the Caps, while Ottawa hadn't played in 3 days.  The Caps had to fight through 7 Ottawa power plays, including two 5 on 3's.  Then the tough win doesn't look quite so bad. 

Offline Surreylily

  • I can start fire with two hard drives
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 20690
  • Likes: 1674
  • Pond Jumper
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 10:05:00 PM Eastern »
  You are only allowed to mention Crosby if you are shitting on him. I think the majority if Caps fans hate Crosby.


You mean Cyndy.......   right?  ;D
I am

Offline Pavel095

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 547
  • Likes: 32
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 10:26:02 PM Eastern »

You mean Cyndy.......   right?  ;D




Couldn’t figure out how correctly to spell her name ;D

Offline Surreylily

  • I can start fire with two hard drives
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 20690
  • Likes: 1674
  • Pond Jumper
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 10:48:50 PM Eastern »
I'm definitely coming round to DC's perspective on the whole "front office" thing, but there are some things I don't understand, so I would appreciate some clarification, if poss.


For instance, "front office" means management, right?


1)  This would exclude the Head Coach and any other coaches, as they are paid employees and whilst they may have some input and can give advice, any actual decisions regarding personell are not made by them?


2)  The owner.  Imho, I think Ted Leonsis has been a great owner.  His job is to open his cheque book and he has most certainly done that - unlike many others.


3)  The Vice, Patrick.  I don't even know what he does, or how far his responsibilities extend, or how much power he actually has over the team.


4)  The GM.  Now this is a tricky one for me.  I liked GMGM and I like GMBM.  They've both made mistakes, for sure, but I wonder how much their hands were/are tied from above?  And by whom?  GMGM seems to be doing a pretty good job over in Vegas and I remember BB complaining that he wasn't allowed allowed free reign with his players, while he was here.
GMBM is supposed to be the GM of this team, but I have to wonder exactly how much control, or power he actually has and if his strings are being pulled by somebody else also.


5)  Scouting staff.  Not been great recently.


6)  Marketting.  A+


Have I missed anybody out?


We have had a team that should have made it to the SC finals for the last couple of years.  Last season was the best chance we had and the Shithispants deal didn't exactly help, but it was the product, the guys on the ice that lost that one.
Again.
It wasn't through lack of skill, it was same ol', same ole' with the guys on ice.




So here it is. 
I'm torn. 
Is it the core, the players that are to blame, or the management and what can they do?  They can put the best players on the ice, but they can't do it for them.
 :(
I am

Offline Surreylily

  • I can start fire with two hard drives
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 20690
  • Likes: 1674
  • Pond Jumper
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 10:50:57 PM Eastern »



Couldn’t figure out how correctly to spell her name ;D


Any which way you like luv'.  Pretty sure we'll all know who you mean.   ;)
I am

Offline Pavel095

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 547
  • Likes: 32
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 11:38:55 PM Eastern »
I think we can’t fully know how overall decisions were made and who is fully responsible for that,on the other hand I have some thoughts regarding following:


1) The decision to let some useful players go, for instance  Chimera,Green,Johansson was only matter if some hungry,hot prospects players were purchased.As we can see this season, the team performance became worse compare to last couple seasons.


2) In Addition, underperformance of Backstrom,Oshie,Holtby caused a team many points and it seems like right now they far from fix it.


3) Third,I didn’t get why caps didn’t improve their squad during this trading window,in fact for a couple of seasons they only purchase liabilities and  it tells me,that management team doesn’t understand what they are doing and how the team like Caps suppose to work on market.


4) Lastly, i do know khl market at least Caps can try to get Kovalchuk this summer who gonna be free agent.Moreover, there’s a 20 year old guy  Kiril Kaprizov who is gonna be next Kovalchuk or half of Ovi,I know he is already drafted by Minnesota ,however there’s always a chance to obtain better players.


Offline Surreylily

  • I can start fire with two hard drives
  • Hockey Deity
  • ******
  • Posts: 20690
  • Likes: 1674
  • Pond Jumper
Re: Who Would You Keep??
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday February 28, 2018, 11:59:58 PM Eastern »
I think we can’t fully know how overall decisions were made and who is fully responsible for that,on the other hand I have some thoughts regarding following:


1) The decision to let some useful players go, for instance  Chimera,Green,Johansson was only matter if some hungry,hot prospects players were purchased.As we can see this season, the team performance became worse compare to last couple seasons.


2) In Addition, underperformance of Backstrom,Oshie,Holtby caused a team many points and it seems like right now they far from fix it.


3) Third,I didn’t get why caps didn’t improve their squad during this trading window,in fact for a couple of seasons they only purchase liabilities and  it tells me,that management team doesn’t understand what they are doing and how the team like Caps suppose to work on market.


4) Lastly, i do know khl market at least Caps can try to get Kovalchuk this summer who gonna be free agent.Moreover, there’s a 20 year old guy  Kiril Kaprizov who is gonna be next Kovalchuk or half of Ovi,I know he is already drafted by Minnesota ,however there’s always a chance to obtain better players.


"Chucky" 'ain't going back over there.  (NHL) Just can't see it.  He has enough money.  There's no incentive for him.  He's just got a gold medal and is happy as a .......fill in the blanks.


How's Samsonov doing?  Our prospect goalie?   :wackysmile:
I have limited access to stuff these days.  :-\
I am