Washington Capitals Fan Forum
Talk about Capitals hockey & more! => Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion => Topic started by: Maacoshark on Monday May 21, 2018, 01:02:11 PM Eastern
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I know I was hard on Matt Niskanen last game saying he was partially responsible for all 3 goals. This guy was even harder on Niskanen than I was. That critic is Matt Niskanen.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/capitals-look-rally-around-leader-niskanen-game-6/sn-amp/
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I know I was hard on Matt Niskanen last game saying he was partially responsible for all 3 goals. This guy was even harder on Niskanen than I was. That critic is Matt Niskanen.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/capitals-look-rally-around-leader-niskanen-game-6/sn-amp/ (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/capitals-look-rally-around-leader-niskanen-game-6/sn-amp/)
It's no secret I'm a Nisky supporter. I'm not saying he didn't have a bad last game, but I don't think he's had a bad overall playoffs. I think it's tough because when players like him and Orlov have bad games, it's really noticeable. We rely on them a lot, and since Carlson isn't as good defensively as either of them (even if he has had flashes of it in these playoffs) Carlson in the entire CBJ series was a mess defensively and your blind if you can't see that.
None the less, I don't think it's down to just one or two players making mistakes for us. If we were going to win a hockey game with 2 goals scored it was going to require a lot more of a team effort than what we saw in that first period across the board.
Nonetheless, a big reason I've always been a fan of Nisky is because he tells it like it is, even when it regards himself. I don't know if I am full end is nigh yet either, huge game tonight. If we can dominate tonight, and rebound and reset, we could take momentum into Tampa for Game 7.
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It's no secret I'm a Nisky supporter. I'm not saying he didn't have a bad last game, but I don't think he's had a bad overall playoffs. I think it's tough because when players like him and Orlov have bad games, it's really noticeable. We rely on them a lot, and since Carlson isn't as good defensively as either of them (even if he has had flashes of it in these playoffs) Carlson in the entire CBJ series was a mess defensively and your blind if you can't see that.
None the less, I don't think it's down to just one or two players making mistakes for us. If we were going to win a hockey game with 2 goals scored it was going to require a lot more of a team effort than what we saw in that first period across the board.
Nonetheless, a big reason I've always been a fan of Nisky is because he tells it like it is, even when it regards himself. I don't know if I am full end is nigh yet either, huge game tonight. If we can dominate tonight, and rebound and reset, we could take momentum into Tampa for Game 7.
You say Carlson isnt as good defensively as Orlov and Niskanen. In these playoffs he has been better defensively than either of them. He has been the best dman at both ends of the ice and it really isn't even close. Orlov is not a better defensive dman than Carlson. He is still a better offensive dman, the rest of his game is improving but he is far from a shutdown dman.
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This year has not been a good year for Nisky. He was injured, but most of the problem has been his mental mistakes. They seemed to come in bunches and there were more than a few games during the year that he just made one stupid mistake after another. It got to the point that I wondered if Carlson's low hockey IQ was contagious (sorry Maaco - I just couldn't resist).
Let's hope he has a good solid game tonight.
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You say Carlson isnt as good defensively as Orlov and Niskanen. In these playoffs he has been better defensively than either of them. He has been the best dman at both ends of the ice and it really isn't even close. Orlov is not a better defensive dman than Carlson. He is still a better offensive dman, the rest of his game is improving but he is far from a shutdown dman.
I'll agree to disagree on that.
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I'll agree to disagree on that.
OK. Who has been better? Because it certainly isn't Orlov or Niskanen.
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This year has not been a good year for Nisky. He was injured, but most of the problem has been his mental mistakes. They seemed to come in bunches and there were more than a few games during the year that he just made one stupid mistake after another. It got to the point that I wondered if Carlson's low hockey IQ was contagious (sorry Maaco - I just couldn't resist).
Let's hope he has a good solid game tonight.
Carlson has shown in these playoffs that he has a hockey IQ. He hasn't made many bonehead plays in these playoffs.
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Let's not get carried away. Carlson has made plenty of boneheaded plays, he just hasn't been burned when it led to a goal. I will agree that he has played better in these playoffs. I have been pleasantly surprised.
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Carlson has shown in these playoffs that he has a hockey IQ. He hasn't made many bonehead plays in these playoffs.
Are you just like counting these playoffs as only this round? Because that is the only round Carlson defensively has been better than Nisky or Orlov. Against Columbus and Pitt Nisky/Orly were absolutely clutch defensively for us. On MANY occasions. Forgettnig Nisky sweeping several pucks out of the paint against the Pens?
Carlson on the other hand has been better defensively and playing more within the system, specifically against the Pens and some of the later games this series. But he was one of our worst defenders in our own zone against Columbus, we simply had the offensive firepower going to make up for it.
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You say Carlson isnt as good defensively as Orlov and Niskanen. In these playoffs he has been better defensively than either of them. He has been the best dman at both ends of the ice and it really isn't even close. Orlov is not a better defensive dman than Carlson. He is still a better offensive dman, the rest of his game is improving but he is far from a shutdown dman.
Nisk/Orlov play more minutes for a reason, Carlson gets PP time. And more time you play against the best players, more chances to screw up. I'm not trying to badmouth Carlson. He excels in this playoffs. Considering our D situation, these three D pull a lot by themselves.
Bura was the most irritating to watch he brought just nothing game after games. And without Nisk or Orlov we probably won't be here at this point.
Let's stop blaming, Caps can win only together.
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Nisk/Orlov play more minutes for a reason, Carlson gets PP time. And more time you play against the best players, more chances to screw up. I'm not trying to badmouth Carlson. He excels in this playoffs. Considering our D situation, these three D pull a lot by themselves.
Bura was the most irritating to watch he brought just nothing game after games. And without Nisk or Orlov we probably won't be here at this point.
Let's stop blaming, Caps can win only together.
Carlson gets as many minutes as they do and more. Most games Carlson leads in icetime. Yes he plays on the pp but he is also on the pk. Your argument holds no water.
I agree Niskanen is better defensively than Carlson but Orlov isn't. However in these playoffs Carlson gas been better than both if them. He has been very solid for us.
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After game 5 I bashed Nisky because I hate some of the turnovers he makes in his own zone. It's almost like he's cross-eyed or something and just doesn't see how a guy can step up and steal a pass of his.
While I think he's been our steadiest defenseman overall at times, I think Carlson can be too. In the playoffs Carlson has had the weaker D partner so I give him credit because I look at it as adding a degree of difficulty Niskanen doesn't really have. I think Orlov can be unpredictable and risky but I like the risks he takes sometimes too. When it comes to playing with Kempny, he shines then falters. You almost have to expect poor play from Kempny and that has to affect Carlson. On the other hand, Nisk is playing against the other teams top lines and Carlson doesn't so I look at it as sort of evening out.
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Carlson gets as many minutes as they do and more. Most games Carlson leads in icetime. Yes he plays on the pp but he is also on the pk. Your argument holds no water.
I agree Niskanen is better defensively than Carlson but Orlov isn't. However in these playoffs Carlson gas been better than both if them. He has been very solid for us.
You don't look TOI by one game, right? There games when this pair played most time, especially Nisk. And Carlson gets PP time. Orlov makes much better passes, he leads attacks. I think in some aspects Orlov better than Carlson, in others Carlson. Nisk probably our best D with most toughest assignments and as he is paired with Orlov, then Orlov has to keep it up.
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You don't look TOI by one game, right? There games when this pair played most time, especially Nisk. And Carlson gets PP time. Orlov makes much better passes, he leads attacks. I think in some aspects Orlov better than Carlson, in others Carlson. Nisk probably our best D with most toughest assignments and as he is paired with Orlov, then Orlov has to keep it up.
Are you making this up as you write it. Carlson lead the Caps in too in the regular season and he also leads in the playoffs. How does that translate to one game? My point is that Carlson has been better than Niskanen and Orlov in these playoffs.
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Are you making this up as you write it. Carlson lead the Caps in too in the regular season and he also leads in the playoffs. How does that translate to one game? My point is that Carlson has been better than Niskanen and Orlov in these playoffs.
Carlson's leading time is because of power play minutes and he is not better overall than Nisk or Orlov. I they all more or less equal with different strong sides. Orlov is the best progressing player compare to all of them.
Carlson is on a finished year of his contract, after re-signing then he'll go Jonny doesn't care mode. I hope he'll be focused at least for playoffs.
BTW, one of the games with TB, John has -3.
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Are you making this up as you write it. Carlson lead the Caps in too in the regular season and he also leads in the playoffs. How does that translate to one game? My point is that Carlson has been better than Niskanen and Orlov in these playoffs.
I just don't get how you can see that. Carlson has been good offensively all these playoffs, absolutely. Carlson has been steady defensively, since about Game 4 of the Pitt series imo. But he was actively bad defensively against Columbus. So for you to continue to say "these whole playoffs" when you only mean that Carlson was better than Orlov/Niskanen defensively for what, 3 games this series? The 3 games we lost no less. Carlson was bad defensively the entire Columbus series. He was simply steady against Pitt. Where as Nisky and Orlov were both good against Columbus and literally great against Pitt. And then again they were both good against Tampa in some games this series defensively. Game 1 and 2 both good, and I thought they were both great last night.
Carlson was worse defensively than they were last night, more of the quality chances came against his pairing and when Djoos was on the ice. Djoos is obviously our weakest link defensively, i'm not crazy enough not to see that. But the narrative that you've woved that Carlson has somehow been better in our own end is wild. He is the most guilty party of just slapping the puck up the boards, which Orlov and Niskanen only do in situations when the forecheck is coming in too hot. Even ignoring breakouts, the amount of times Nisky and Orlov show up holding the blue line, and taking steals out of the neutral zone against Pitt and in Games 1, 2 and 6 of this series is impossible not to see. The forwards clog lanes and it allows the defenders to step up and keep the forecheck and the cycle going and going and going. It allows us to control flows of the game, but it's still a defensive play. Add that to the number of times once they do get a skate in, again this is against both Pitt in Tampa same games I mentioned, it's almost often Orlov/Nisky stepping up and stealing the puck or outplaying the man after the first move to end the chance. Even when they get beaten, they then tip or push the puck into the boards and box out to allow other forwards to come in.
I'm not denying they had those couple of bad games this series, they absolutely did. But in the games where our defense has been a shining point, Orlov/Niskanen have been our two best defenders defensively, with Orpik third, easily. Hell I'd probably put Kempny as more of a standout defensively in those games than Carlson. The only difference in Carlson is he's more composed and it allows him to stick to the system and play steadier when he's in the D zone. It means he makes less awful plays, not more quality defensive plays. The other three defenders I mentioned have easily made far more quality defensive plays game to game on a consistent basis, whether it's big quality defensive plays like pushing the puck off the line, or the little things that go unnoticed like interrupting breakouts, or pushing the puck into corners and allowing it to turn into board battles that our forwards can win. They simply have a better mind for defensive hockey, that is obvious.
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I just don't get how you can see that. Carlson has been good offensively all these playoffs, absolutely. Carlson has been steady defensively, since about Game 4 of the Pitt series imo. But he was actively bad defensively against Columbus. So for you to continue to say "these whole playoffs" when you only mean that Carlson was better than Orlov/Niskanen defensively for what, 3 games this series? The 3 games we lost no less. Carlson was bad defensively the entire Columbus series. He was simply steady against Pitt. Where as Nisky and Orlov were both good against Columbus and literally great against Pitt. And then again they were both good against Tampa in some games this series defensively. Game 1 and 2 both good, and I thought they were both great last night.
Carlson was worse defensively than they were last night, more of the quality chances came against his pairing and when Djoos was on the ice. Djoos is obviously our weakest link defensively, i'm not crazy enough not to see that. But the narrative that you've woved that Carlson has somehow been better in our own end is wild. He is the most guilty party of just slapping the puck up the boards, which Orlov and Niskanen only do in situations when the forecheck is coming in too hot. Even ignoring breakouts, the amount of times Nisky and Orlov show up holding the blue line, and taking steals out of the neutral zone against Pitt and in Games 1, 2 and 6 of this series is impossible not to see. The forwards clog lanes and it allows the defenders to step up and keep the forecheck and the cycle going and going and going. It allows us to control flows of the game, but it's still a defensive play. Add that to the number of times once they do get a skate in, again this is against both Pitt in Tampa same games I mentioned, it's almost often Orlov/Nisky stepping up and stealing the puck or outplaying the man after the first move to end the chance. Even when they get beaten, they then tip or push the puck into the boards and box out to allow other forwards to come in.
I'm not denying they had those couple of bad games this series, they absolutely did. But in the games where our defense has been a shining point, Orlov/Niskanen have been our two best defenders defensively, with Orpik third, easily. Hell I'd probably put Kempny as more of a standout defensively in those games than Carlson. The only difference in Carlson is he's more composed and it allows him to stick to the system and play steadier when he's in the D zone. It means he makes less awful plays, not more quality defensive plays. The other three defenders I mentioned have easily made far more quality defensive plays game to game on a consistent basis, whether it's big quality defensive plays like pushing the puck off the line, or the little things that go unnoticed like interrupting breakouts, or pushing the puck into corners and allowing it to turn into board battles that our forwards can win. They simply have a better mind for defensive hockey, that is obvious.
Lol you should really watch that Columbus series again. It was Orlov and Niskanen that sucked in the first round. Especially Orlov. And they had a couple bad games in this series.
And BTW Carlson gets moire mins than either of those 2 , even with few pps. He is playing very well for us.
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I hope it's not fatigue or minutes causing some of these errors on D.. Niskanen, last game, started screwing up about a minute in.. lol They've all done some bonehead plays this post season, but I repeatedly notice Nisky doing suspect shit.. Hope he and the rest of em' tighten up for tonight!! Should get to see the best of both teams..
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Lol you should really watch that Columbus series again. It was Orlov and Niskanen that sucked in the first round. Especially Orlov. And they had a couple bad games in this series.
And BTW Carlson gets moire mins than either of those 2 , even with few pps. He is playing very well for us.
Debating who's better defensively: Carlson. Nisky, and Orlov, is like judging a rally fat beauty contest. Aint none of em good.
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Debating who's better defensively: Carlson. Nisky, and Orlov, is like judging a rally fat beauty contest. Aint none of em good.
One area I actively disagree with you on I think. Especially in some games these playoffs, really most, for Nisky. Orpik has by far been our physically effective D, but against Columbus and Pitt Nisky was stellar. Like stellar, defensively. He didn't looked panicked or rushed at all imo, and while he wasn't playing perfect hockey every single night, he had some amazing defensive plays that helped win us games. It's obviously been team efforts to in some cases, but I've seen some really good plays by him this post season, and from my vantage point he's bailed us out far more than he's hurt us this post season. Far more. Pitt and Columbus alone make up for the what 3 games he had bad this series?
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Debating who's better defensively: Carlson. Nisky, and Orlov, is like judging a rally fat beauty contest. Aint none of em good.
that and going by TOI, all that means is he's in better shape
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I wish to pipe up with a little comment here.
"Hooks"
People don't talk much about real stay at home D-men, because there's not much to talk about, mostly. They rarely contribute to goals and let their other D-partner go and get all the glory with goals and assists while they cover their backs. When we lost Alzner ( :'( ), we were left with just the one proper and true stay at home, shut down D-man. Brooks Orpik.
There was a time, not so very long ago, that we could rely on him to take at least one boneheaded penalty a game... :clown: ..... But then he stopped doing that.
My absolute favourite moment of these whole playoffs so far is when Orpik made that boneheaded pass directly to the Bolts, that got cleaned out, but then he literally BOWLED through two Bolts. (Game 6) 2nd period, I think......
He was an absolute beast, a monster that game!
Nobody gives him any credit, so I just want to balance the books a little in that regard.
I hope he's okay after that hit.
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I wish to pipe up with a little comment here.
"Hooks"
People don't talk much about real stay at home D-men, because there's not much to talk about, mostly. They rarely contribute to goals and let their other D-partner go and get all the glory with goals and assists while they cover their backs. When we lost Alzner ( :'( ), we were left with just the one proper and true stay at home, shut down D-man. Brooks Orpik.
There was a time, not so very long ago, that we could rely on him to take at least one boneheaded penalty a game... :clown: ..... But then he stopped doing that.
My absolute favourite moment of these whole playoffs so far is when Orpik made that boneheaded pass directly to the Bolts, that got cleaned out, but then he literally BOWLED through two Bolts. (Game 6) 2nd period, I think......
He was an absolute beast, a monster that game!
Nobody gives him any credit, so I just want to balance the books a little in that regard.
I hope he's okay after that hit.
Orpik has been solid in these playoffs and we all know he likes the physical stuff.
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Check out his +/- stats. he has been an absolute HERO for us. Nobody gives him any credit.
UNSUNG HERO OF THE WORLD GOES TO...
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Check out his +/- stats. he has been an absolute HERO for us. Nobody gives him any credit.
UNSUNG HERO OF THE WORLD GOES TO...
He had a good fight in Game 6 of this series too. Whenever he makes a mistake on the ice he usually almost always goes and hits an opposing player, and makes up for it. He knows. I think his play has been crucial because isn't he the only player on our bench who has won a Cup? He wears an A, is older, and while his Cup win did come I believe back in like 08 with the Pens, his experience and leadership have been crucial with a weakened D core.
I also wonder how much his mentorship has helped some of our other younger D, Djoos and Kempny particularly.
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Sure Orpik has elevated his game and mentor young players telling how lucky they are being in this position and and appreciate and contribute in the success. Once I've read that Kuzya and Bruce have very great relationships and calls him "batya". How Bruce taught him how to play tough against real D! Referring Orpik as "batya" means a lot, with a direct translation as "father", in the army it would be informal calling higher rank who really cares about solders who you can intrust your life. That means Kuzya treats him as an older friend with very high respect!
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+/- for D can be a very deceiving parameter, because the best D goes against the best O. It is also depends if you play with great scorers.
BTW, anybody remember Schultz? He had a great +.
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+/- for D can be a very deceiving parameter, because the best D goes against the best O. It is also depends if you play with great scorers.
BTW, anybody remember Schultz? He had a great +.
(Yeah, I read about the "batya" thing a while ago. Pretty cool.)
Alta and I have very fond memories of him! I don't know if you know the story, but after my first ever game there a couple of years ago, we were leaving the stadium and I tripped over a traffic cone and fell arse over tit, sprawling to the ground. I said to the many helping hands, "Who put Jeff Schultz there?" :wackysmile: [size=78%] [/size]
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[/size][size=78%]I guess you had to be there, but it was pretty funny at the time and certainly broke the ice! [/size] :lol:
I don't usually put much stock in stats. They can be very subjective and easily manipulated.
You do know that Schultz has his name on the CUP already?
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You do know that Schultz has his name on the CUP already?
Sure, I do. He wasn't instrumental in any sense, he didn't play much, but enough to get his name there. I would happen with him or without.
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Sure, I do. He wasn't instrumental in any sense, he didn't play much, but enough to get his name there. I would happen with him or without.
I think he played 2 games.......... :P
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I think he played 2 games.......... :P
And he probably was consider as elite D, by Caps standards. The Caps had no good D before Carlzner arrival, what did we expect?
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And he probably was consider as elite D, by Caps standards. The Caps had no good D before Carlzner arrival, what did we expect?
We had Somme excellent dmen back in the day. It was always our strength.
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And he probably was consider as elite D, by Caps standards. The Caps had no good D before Carlzner arrival, what did we expect?
You made a funny! Good job.!
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Actually, your point about "Carlzner" is quite relevant.
We only have ONE proper shut down and stay at home D-man now and that's Orpik.
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Good Lord, I need a hug so bad it ain't even funny. :O=
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Try taking the blinders off. Or maybe decide on a team. Ever play the game yourself or do you just judge? The amount of your derogatory "contributions" trashing everyone within the organization is just pathetic. Get a new hobby, you pos.
Why I would normally embarrass they hell out of you and deystoy you for even thinking you can talk to me like that, as a moderator I cannot do those things. Therefore I must remind you of the TOS rules against personal attacks and destroying threads with emotional nonsense caused by hurt feelings. (This was a polite warning by the way)
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Perhaps we can agree that in games 6 and 7 against Tampa, Carlson, Niskanen, and Orlov were equally effective (along with the other three!!)
To me, these two games are the wild card in the analysis of what might happen in the finals. The Caps seemed to tighten everything up with 5-man defense when they absolutely had to against the highest-scoring team in the league this year, and allowed nothing. To be fair, there was one play where the puck came loose in the crease in game 7 that Tampa should have scored, but other than that, Holtby had to make a handful of tough saves and that was it. If the Caps play anything like that in this series, it would be easy to envision them allowing no more than a goal or two a game to Vegas, which isn't a scoring juggernaut. That means they should be in every game and should be able to eke out a couple of wins at least. I still don't think they should be favored to win the series, but they have the capability to make it very tough for Vegas.
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One area I actively disagree with you on I think. Especially in some games these playoffs, really most, for Nisky. Orpik has by far been our physically effective D, but against Columbus and Pitt Nisky was stellar. Like stellar, defensively. He didn't looked panicked or rushed at all imo, and while he wasn't playing perfect hockey every single night, he had some amazing defensive plays that helped win us games. It's obviously been team efforts to in some cases, but I've seen some really good plays by him this post season, and from my vantage point he's bailed us out far more than he's hurt us this post season. Far more. Pitt and Columbus alone make up for the what 3 games he had bad this series?
While harsh, I will say they where effective to good at times in these playoffs, particularly the mental aspect (at least in the wins). But this just a sample size. There is enough history to fairly assume it is unlikely that they will collectively maintain this level.
But they’ve done good