Washington Capitals Fan Forum
Talk about Capitals hockey & more! => Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion => Topic started by: alta on Saturday December 30, 2017, 06:02:08 PM Eastern
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Sat Dec. 30 New Jersey Devils vs. Washington Capitals
Time: 7:00 p.m.
TV: NBC Sports Washington, MSG+
Radio: 106.7 The Fan, Capitals Radio 24/7
New Jersey Devils 50-22-9-6 Last Game: Lost 4-3 against Sabers
Washington Capitals 49-23-13-3 Last Game: Won 4-3 against Bruins
8-Ovechkin 19-Bäckström 25-Smith-Pelly
13-Vrana 92-Kuznetsov 77-Oshie
10-Connolly 20-Eller 43-Wilson
18-Stephenson 83-Beagle 39-Chaisson
9-Orlov 2-Niskanen
29-Djoos 74-Carlson
44-Orpik 4-Chorney
31-Grubauer
70-Holtby (starter)
-- SCRATCH --
65-Burakovsky
22-Bowey
-- INJURED --
-- 1st Powerplay Unit --
77-Oshie 19-Bäckström 92-Kuznetsov
8-Ovechkin 74-Carlson
-- 2nd Powerplay Unit --
39-Chaisson 20-Eller 13-Vrana
2-Niskanen 9-Orlov
Referees: Tom Chmielewski (#18) Wes McCauley (#4)
Linesmen: Brad Kovachik (#71), Lonnie Cameron (#74)
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By Isabelle Khurshudyan December 30 at 12:39 PM
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Washington Capitals left wing Andre Burakovsky (65) won’t be in the lineup on Saturday. (AP Photo/Carlos Osorio)As the Washington Capitals (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/capitals/) host the New Jersey Devils in a game with first place in the Metropolitan Division (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/nhl/standings.asp) at stake, skilled forward Andre Burakovsky will be a healthy scratch for the first time this season.
“I think like anything it’s an earned right,” Trotz said. “We need Andre to get his game to the next level, put some urgency. There’s nothing that puts more urgency into a player than not being in the lineup. We’ve seen that in the past with guys we’ve sat out.”
This is a frustrating chapter in what’s been a frustrating season for Burakovsky, whom the team had high expectations for this year. After the Capitals parted with top-six forwards Marcus Johansson and Justin Williams, Washington tabbed Burakovsky, 22, as a player who could increase his production to replace some of the lost goal-scoring from Johansson and Williams.
But Burakovsky struggled to start the season, broke his left thumb in October, and aside from one two-goal performance in Dallas, Burakovsky has been largely ineffective. He has three goals and five assists through 19 games, and Burakovsky has now been a healthy scratch in each of his first four seasons in the NHL. Perhaps the Capitals had hoped the 2013 first-round pick would be past the point where that’s necessary by now. He’s known for being streaky, regularly going through long slumps without a goal.
“I think with every player you hope that,” Trotz said. “All the details, all the consistency, you shouldn’t go 20 games without a point or a goal or whatever. There’s times when we played him and he probably shouldn’t be in the lineup. So I think we’re past that a little bit. We’ve got to force him to get to the next level, and sometimes it’s a little bit of tough love, sometimes it’s getting the player to realize how much being on the ice means to him. There’s no entitlement. He’s a veteran player now. He’s a young veteran player that we expect to be real good.”
[Caps don’t take many shots, but they’re trying to make them count (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capitals-insider/wp/2017/12/29/capitals-dont-take-many-shots-but-theyre-trying-to-make-them-count/)]
Rookie defenseman Madison Bowey will also be a healthy scratch on Saturday night. “He can be a little bit better in some areas,” Trotz said. Defenseman Taylor Chorney will be in the lineup instead.
With Burakovsky out, forward Tom Wilson will take his place on the third line with center Lars Eller and winger Brett Connolly. In a lineup shake-up, Trotz promoted forward Devante Smith-Pelly to the top line with Alex Ovechkin and Nicklas Backstrom. Jakub Vrana will take Burakovsky’s spot on the second power-play unit.
The Devils have played two fewer games than the Capitals, and they have one more point (50) than Washington (49) in a Metropolitan Division that’s separated by just 10 points from top to bottom. As December games go, Saturday’s is a significant one.
“I think we just know that whoever wins is in first place at the end of the night,” defenseman Brooks Orpik said. “I think that’s more of what we’re looking at and trying to get some separation from all of the teams. It kind of seems that whenever we win, every other team wins in the Metro. It’s a little frustrating that way, and I don’t think it’s going to change much as we go. I think it’s going to be like that the whole year. Maybe that’ll be good because it’ll kind of push us to the end of the season.”
Said Trotz: “I don’t think anybody expected them to be where they are, but they’ve earned that right. They’ve outplayed people and they’ve won more games than most teams in the league. They’ve got a really good team game. Systematically, they’ve bought into structure. They’ve got a high work ethic, they’ve got a high skill level and speed, and they’ve got a buy-in. They’re bought in. They’re all buying in on their decision-making. They’re all buying in on their work ethic. They’re all buying in on all that stuff. They got off to a great start and it’s sort of built their confidence and their nerve and they’re a good hockey team.”
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Willy!!!!
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Just settled in to watch the game and we’re already up 1-0. Three goals better than the first two minutes of the Bruins game. Sweet play by Djoos.
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this is the best start in 5 games, so far
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Nice play by Djoos. And good to see guys going to the net
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Alright ..... now it’s a Caps game. Kicking back in the recliner ...... nice adult beverage ...... 65" HDTV ...... Joe B back on the call instead of the NBC morons ...... and Brooks Orpik has gotten his requisite penalty over with. Let’s play!
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Wow - that was as pretty as it gets.
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Very nice. We all complain about the Caps passing too much. That may have been another example but it worked.
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nice little standing o for MoJo during the break
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they have already reverted to pass first shoot second
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there is the standard 2 goal lead let off
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Orpik got lost out there
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did anyone tell OV they had the PP???
cheese and and crackers man, skate
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what a joking puck, I don’t know how they scored on that lackluster of a pp
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He's a bum
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I swear these zebras just make up shit
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That looked like a punch from Orpik.
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He's a bum
holy crap! You’ve seen the light!!!!!
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He's a bum
;D :o
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Lol of course not. To tell you the truth if the season ended now he would be a Norris finalist. Could even win it. He has carried this dcore.
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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8 to 25 to 2 !!!!!!!
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Ovi cost us that last goal. He can be a frustrating player.
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
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Caps should be on a pp, must’ve been 8 white sweaters out there
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Been out and about all night but listening on the radio when driving. Good win for the boys tonight.
Happy New Year to all!
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
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Very solid game. A lot of guys played well. Oshie still looks off. Carlson had a very good game. Pairing Djoos with Carlson was a great move. Right now Carlson is playing a's well as any dman in the league right now.
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
Those of that have been watching him for almost 10 years do blame him when he screws up, yes. Have we singled him out? No.
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Trotz is now 5th all time with wins
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
Those of that have been watching him for almost 10 years do blame him when he screws up, yes. Have we singled him out? No.
You single him out every game. I have also watched Carlson his entire career. He has had his ups and downs. But he is playing very well this year. Our best dman and it isn't even close. None of you guys will admit he is having a good year. When he does something good, which is quite often no one says a word. He makes a little mistake and you guys pounce on him. You even rip him when he did nothing wrong. Cut the guy some slack. Without him there is no way we are at the top of the division.
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
Those of that have been watching him for almost 10 years do blame him when he screws up, yes. Have we singled him out? No.
You single him out every game. I have also watched Carlson his entire career. He has had his ups and downs. But he is playing very well this year. Our best dman and it isn't even close. None of you guys will admit he is having a good year. When he does something good, which is quite often no one says a word. He makes a little mistake and you guys pounce on him. You even rip him when he did nothing wrong. Cut the guy some slack. Without him there is no way we are at the top of the division.
I'm not saying he is bad, but he made a quite a few mistakes in an offensive zone, plus almost allowed 1:1 on our PP.
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Carlson catches flak because he's not that great at "defense".. He's an offensive defenseman, who's about to be paid in the 6-7 million dollar a year range, eat up a great deal of our cap (if he stays here) and just be a "good" defenseman.. He's like a great 3rd line forward, who gets some solid points but plays 200 feet.. Normally you'd love that guy! Except when the team offers him 7 million bucks a year for like 6-7 years.. :o
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Devils head coach was upset in the lost game because the Caps has 6 guys on the ice for “the whole” play. I missed the question so I don’t know what play he was imagining but I know I saw 6-7 white sweaters on the ice at one time with no call
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Carlson catches flak because he's not that great at "defense".. He's an offensive defenseman, who's about to be paid in the 6-7 million dollar a year range, eat up a great deal of our cap (if he stays here) and just be a "good" defenseman.. He's like a great 3rd line forward, who gets some solid points but plays 200 feet.. Normally you'd love that guy! Except when the team offers him 7 million bucks a year for like 6-7 years.. :o
Carlson is fine defensively. If he was weak defensively they wouldnt be pairing him with Djoos who isn't a defensive defence man. Carlson's play has been a huge part of his success. If he was weak defensively he wouldn't be killing penalties. He wouldn't be on the ice when the game is on the line. Carlson is our best dman on the pp and pk. He is decent 5 on 5 as well. He is our best dman by a mile. You can't debate that.
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
For the record, I thought Carlson played a great game. He's also been very much improved and alert lately. I only ever gave him grief for his occasional brain lockups. He's for a long time now been a top defenseman, especially since he took Mike Green's spot on the PP and finally got the hang of those touch passes to Ovie's office.
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
Those of that have been watching him for almost 10 years do blame him when he screws up, yes. Have we singled him out? No.
I think the real issue is he’s being played and marketed as an “elite” Dman. The result is a large amount of minutes (which is highly impressive and deservant of praise), that results in hes weakness being exposed, bad tendencies developed etc., more often that causes most of the distrust, disappointment and even dislike towards him.
While certainly and upper tier Dman, it is unreasonable and inaccurate to put him on the class of Burns, Dougherty, Keith, Gairdi, Webber, etc.
This ultimately comes down to management and the orginization asking fat to much of him. Both to belong in that class and in the system. Any criticism of him, should not that, and the lack of attention to the DCorps in general (note that most elite dman, have good DCorps around then too)
That being said, he is still young for a Dman. Mike Green (who got it way worse than Carlson), played some of his best all around hockey this year significantly under the radar. He (finally) became a very good all around Dman and his typical PP threat.
So there is still time for Carlson to come around. The issue is what cap space hit will he ask for and will they able to afford him and help for him.
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Devils head coach was upset in the lost game because the Caps has 6 guys on the ice for “the whole” play. I missed the question so I don’t know what play he was imagining but I know I saw 6-7 white sweaters on the ice at one time with no call
The Caps had 6 players in the offensive zone on the Niskanen goal
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
Those of that have been watching him for almost 10 years do blame him when he screws up, yes. Have we singled him out? No.
I think the real issue is he’s being played and marketed as an “elite” Dman. The result is a large amount of minutes (which is highly impressive and deservant of praise), that results in hes weakness being exposed, bad tendencies developed etc., more often that causes most of the distrust, disappointment and even dislike towards him.
While certainly and upper tier Dman, it is unreasonable and inaccurate to put him on the class of Burns, Dougherty, Keith, Gairdi, Webber, etc.
This ultimately comes down to management and the orginization asking fat to much of him. Both to belong in that class and in the system. Any criticism of him, should not that, and the lack of attention to the DCorps in general (note that most elite dman, have good DCorps around then too)
That being said, he is still young for a Dman. Mike Green (who got it way worse than Carlson), played some of his best all around hockey this year significantly under the radar. He (finally) became a very good all around Dman and his typical PP threat.
So there is still time for Carlson to come around. The issue is what cap space hit will he ask for and will they able to afford him and help for him.
I'm not sure about some of those dmen you mentioned. Carlson is playing better than all of them. I dont consider Burns an elite defenseman. He us a big guy with a big shot. He isn't even a true defenseman. He is a converted forward. He is far from a great down dman.
Keith is a good dman. Can't stand the guy but he us good. But he is having .a bad year. Weber is also having an off year. Although playing for the Canadians is helping. My point is that Carlson is playing better than most of the so called elite defenseman in the league at both ends of the ice.
Doughty and Hedman might be the best dmen in the league right now.
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Carlson is fine defensively. If he was weak defensively they wouldnt be pairing him with Djoos who isn't a defensive defence man. Carlson's play has been a huge part of his success. If he was weak defensively he wouldn't be killing penalties. He wouldn't be on the ice when the game is on the line. Carlson is our best dman on the pp and pk. He is decent 5 on 5 as well. He is our best dman by a mile. You can't debate that.
Using your own words.. He's "Fine" defensively.. He "our" best Dman.. Just because he's "fine defensively" and the best "we" have doesn't really say much, imo.. I like the dude fine, btw, just don't think he should get upwards of 7 million a year (FROM US).. Were already crippled from stupid contracts to guys who've proven they can't find their ass in the playoffs.. Unfortunately we'll either over pay and be stuck with him or let him walk for nothing. It's what we do!
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I dont like the idea of giving him 7 million per season either. I dont what other options are out there though. There will be no other FA dmen close to to his calibre so that isn't an option. It we let him walk we have no one to replace him.
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BTW when I say fine defensively I mean he is above average. Wouldn't call him a shut down guy but he is decent. When you look at all if the number one dmen in the league he is better defensively than most. I think trying to keep him long term is our best option.
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
Those of that have been watching him for almost 10 years do blame him when he screws up, yes. Have we singled him out? No.
I think the real issue is he’s being played and marketed as an “elite” Dman. The result is a large amount of minutes (which is highly impressive and deservant of praise), that results in hes weakness being exposed, bad tendencies developed etc., more often that causes most of the distrust, disappointment and even dislike towards him.
+1
..sometime he looks careless, but in general I agree.
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I could argue against Carlson being “good” defensively, but let’s set that aside.
For those not in the Carlson camp, here are three reasons why:
1. his lackadaisical style which comes across as laziness. He rarely shows much energy. A great example is on our power play after the other team clears the puck, Carlson always casually skates back to get the puck while precious seconds tick off the clock.
2. He is not physical - at all. This is more frustrating because he has a big body. To his credit, I’m sure he is a nice guy and a great family man, but he never punishes anybody in the corners or in the crease. We don’t ned him to be a fighter, but when has he ever dropped the gloves to stick up for another player? He doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body. I think if we ever had an old-fashioned line brawl, Carlson would go sit on the bench.
3. He is a big part of the old guard culture core that just won’t/can’t do what it takes to win in the playoffs.
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The game unfortunately has changed. There aren't many physical players left and even less guys that fight. Defensemen no longer play defense with bone crushing hits and clearing the front of the net. Now defense is about positioning and what they call a good stick. I dont like anymore than you do but thats the way the NHL has gone. Thats why you are seeing smaller defensemen in the league now.
If I had my way I'd have dmen like Stevens and Tinordi. Those guys would be banned for life if they played in today's NHL. The new NHL kinda sucks. Bettman Americanized it.
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74 should’ve just glided straight to the bench after that
After what Carlson didnt cost us. No matter what happens you guys blame Carlson.
Those of that have been watching him for almost 10 years do blame him when he screws up, yes. Have we singled him out? No.
You single him out every game. I have also watched Carlson his entire career. He has had his ups and downs. But he is playing very well this year. Our best dman and it isn't even close. None of you guys will admit he is having a good year. When he does something good, which is quite often no one says a word. He makes a little mistake and you guys pounce on him. You even rip him when he did nothing wrong. Cut the guy some slack. Without him there is no way we are at the top of the division.
Sometimes it’s just OK to say I disagree and let it go. People are entitled to their opinion. Resist the temptation to a) feel the need to be smarter and b) the need to try and prove it.
We aren’t debating scientific facts to be proven or disproven.
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The game unfortunately has changed. There aren't many physical players left and even less guys that fight. Defensemen no longer play defense with bone crushing hits and clearing the front of the net. Now defense is about positioning and what they call a good stick. I dont like anymore than you do but thats the way the NHL has gone. Thats why you are seeing smaller defensemen in the league now.
If I had my way I'd have dmen like Stevens and Tinordi. Those guys would be banned for life if they played in today's NHL. The new NHL kinda sucks. Bettman Americanized it.
Agree. I don't have to see a bunch of fights, but I swear, the Players Union has circulated a secret truce among the teams that says "no body checks!". It just infuriates me to see forwards skating freely along the boards in the corner, when usually the defenseman has the angle to pound them. Not only would it be a physical play, but it would be the right play. Instead, the defenseman these days just skate parallel and poke check.
I have to say (and I never thought I would say this) I really like Orpik this year as at least he is one guy that still hits in the corners and makes guys think twice about skating down the middle.
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I'd love the physical play back in this league. I agree about Orpik even if he is a pylon out there at times. He makes guys think twice about entering the zone when he is on the ice.
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Sorry to chime in so late. I watched game around midnight. Carlson doesn’t suck but don’t think anyone is saying so. Those of us watching him for years realize the guy is a vanilla marshmallow and it is infuriating especially considering his size. He could be a great defenseman IF he would hit someone occasionally and therefore make that a knowing threat an opponent has to watch for. It simply makes a more effective player. Take Orpik as an example. Who do you think opponents worry about more...Carlson or Orpik
Orpik is old and slow and overpaid, but he single handedly turned the game around the other night with a big hit. He will also stand up for a teammate and Carlson will never ever do that and that’s what I want from my defensemen.
Carlson does make the Caps a better team but I would not call him Elite.
Realistically I can’t see how the Caps can afford to pay what he will demand next year. I personally don’t think he is worth 7 mil but he will likely get it from someone.
I am disappointed the Caps did not use him for trade bait years ago but I will concede Carlson has improved and his last two years have been his best. His seemingly bong-smoking attitude is amplified by thesame Lackluster effort shown by the old core here.
Sorry for the rant. Good to see folks back on these boards hope to participate in real time again...someday
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Trotz is now 5th all time with wins
And never made out of 2nd round in the playoffs.
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Maybe this is the year
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and here I thought it was just me
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Sorry to chime in so late. I watched game around midnight. Carlson doesn’t suck but don’t think anyone is saying so. Those of us watching him for years realize the guy is a vanilla marshmallow and it is infuriating especially considering his size. He could be a great defenseman IF he would hit someone occasionally and therefore make that a knowing threat an opponent has to watch for. It simply makes a more effective player. Take Orpik as an example. Who do you think opponents worry about more...Carlson or Orpik
Orpik is old and slow and overpaid, but he single handedly turned the game around the other night with a big hit. He will also stand up for a teammate and Carlson will never ever do that and that’s what I want from my defensemen.
Carlson does make the Caps a better team but I would not call him Elite.
Realistically I can’t see how the Caps can afford to pay what he will demand next year. I personally don’t think he is worth 7 mil but he will likely get it from someone.
I am disappointed the Caps did not use him for trade bait years ago but I will concede Carlson has improved and his last two years have been his best. His seemingly bong-smoking attitude is amplified by thesame Lackluster effort shown by the old core here.
Sorry for the rant. Good to see folks back on these boards hope to participate in real time again...someday
Well said - couldn't agree more. If the Caps had smart management they would be sellers at the trade deadline and get a huge return on Carlson. I know, I know, this would make us weaker when we have one last chance at a Cup. Blah, blah, blah - same old reasoning we have had for years with no results - with having Carlson on the ice for all our epic playoff failures. Trade him, let Chorney or some Hershey call-up fill in. It really won't be that big of a drop off and we can start rebuilding - both the prospects and the culture!
Sorry for the rant. Good to see folks back on these boards hope to participate in real time again...someday
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Yea, they don't have the guts to trade him at the deadline. The only guts our GM(s) have, is when spending Ted's money. Then when they walk for nothing just "aww shucks.. nothin' we could did boss" :-\
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Well folks, you know I had to chime in on this!
So we all hear over and over again, that the NHL has changed. Defenseman have a different role now, more offensive, faster, more tactical approach, WHATEVER!!! I'll even concede it's true!!
This ALSO MEANS that, if so, it is then RELATIVE, as a standard to judge them on, regardless of whether we like the changes or NOT! ....SO....
I'll give FULL personal credit to Carlson for his shot blocking abilities, as his numbers are decent there! I'll give him MINIMAL, PERSONAL credit, for his great POINTS total! WHY? Because he is given an Incredibly lopsided opportunity to attain those points. Ultra-high TOI, with our top goal scorers on the ice with him! ADD to that his opportunistic presence on the PP, and you've got the whole picture!! ANYONE, including my grandma, would have those numbers, with such a potential!!
His LOWEST ON THE TEAM, Shooting percentage, combined with his 2nd HIGHEST on the team in shot attempts, (only OVI has more shots), wins him the title of the #1 "DUD SHOOTER", on the team! So then, ask yourself WHY, he shoots so much! The answer is in COMPLETE SELFISHNESS, as a player!
When JOHN CARLSON takes ALOT of SOG's, he is improving his Corsi (+\-), when HE is on the ice! He knows his Corsi is negative, and ATTEMPTS to "shoot his way out of it"!! Not giving a DAMN about how his "Inaccuracy", affects how it potentially robs someone else, (any other MORE ACCURATE shooter), of their opportunity!! Think about how this "Tokemaster king", must see himself, in order to KEEP ON shooting duds, game after game, shift after shift, NOT EVEN EMBARRRASED, when he PERPETUALLY misfires!!! NORRIS TROPHY MY ASS!!! And this isn't even addressing defensive skills, yet!!
I'll concede that there may be a SLIVER of improvement, generally speaking, in some dreamy cloud of his overall play, but saying we wouldn't be where we are NOW, without him!!! Those thoughts must come out of the same "bong circle" that Carly joins, pre-game!! LOL
Rush
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Sorry to chime in so late. I watched game around midnight. Carlson doesn’t suck but don’t think anyone is saying so. Those of us watching him for years realize the guy is a vanilla marshmallow and it is infuriating especially considering his size. He could be a great defenseman IF he would hit someone occasionally and therefore make that a knowing threat an opponent has to watch for. It simply makes a more effective player. Take Orpik as an example. Who do you think opponents worry about more...Carlson or Orpik
Orpik is old and slow and overpaid, but he single handedly turned the game around the other night with a big hit. He will also stand up for a teammate and Carlson will never ever do that and that’s what I want from my defensemen.
Carlson does make the Caps a better team but I would not call him Elite.
Realistically I can’t see how the Caps can afford to pay what he will demand next year. I personally don’t think he is worth 7 mil but he will likely get it from someone.
I am disappointed the Caps did not use him for trade bait years ago but I will concede Carlson has improved and his last two years have been his best. His seemingly bong-smoking attitude is amplified by thesame Lackluster effort shown by the old core here.
Sorry for the rant. Good to see folks back on these boards hope to participate in real time again...someday
Well said - couldn't agree more. If the Caps had smart management they would be sellers at the trade deadline and get a huge return on Carlson. I know, I know, this would make us weaker when we have one last chance at a Cup. Blah, blah, blah - same old reasoning we have had for years with no results - with having Carlson on the ice for all our epic playoff failures. Trade him, let Chorney or some Hershey call-up fill in. It really won't be that big of a drop off and we can start rebuilding - both the prospects and the culture!
Sorry for the rant. Good to see folks back on these boards hope to participate in real time again...someday
I agree, to bad they don’t have a young overpaid Dman that is ready to step up and not only take Carlson’s place but to do better than him.
Or so GMBetaMale thought, at least should have . The contract Orlov conned GMBetaMale into all but doomed us from keeping Carlson. Not just in the cap space, but with the market value.
But as Mick said moving Carlson (or Orlov) won’t happen, at least not with this GM
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Rush - you actually think Carlson thinks about his CORSI? You are giving him way too much credit. He is just a bad shooter - always has been.
Regarding his point totals, you are spot on - he gets way too much credit for passing over to Ovi on the PP. Yes, he is decent at it, but how many times with his molasses style, has he been slow to get the puck to him? I would rather see Orlov on the PP any day.
What I don't get about Carlson, is that he used to be pretty good bringing the puck up the ice and now he seems afraid to do it and shows a lot of indecision. Part of it is the stupid drop-pass that everyone is doing, however he regressed well before that. It is pretty humorous though watching Carlson slowly skate up the ice to do the drop pass. Half the time he just blindly drops it backwards, almost giving it to the other team. Now THAT would be classic Carlson.
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Rush - you actually think Carlson thinks about his CORSI? You are giving him way too much credit. He is just a bad shooter - always has been.
Regarding his point totals, you are spot on - he gets way too much credit for passing over to Ovi on the PP. Yes, he is decent at it, but how many times with his molasses style, has he been slow to get the puck to him? I would rather see Orlov on the PP any day.
What I don't get about Carlson, is that he used to be pretty good bringing the puck up the ice and now he seems afraid to do it and shows a lot of indecision. Part of it is the stupid drop-pass that everyone is doing, however he regressed well before that. It is pretty humorous though watching Carlson slowly skate up the ice to do the drop pass. Half the time he just blindly drops it backwards, almost giving it to the other team. Now THAT would be classic Carlson.
Carlson’s shot totals are certainly part of how he’s used in the system, particularly the PP. They certainly want him to make a high volume of shots to first put the puck on net for a rebound, am secondly to pull the coverage off Ovie for the cliche one-timer.
That being the case, there has been little change to the PP since outs so the league has long since figured it out.
But I agree with you completely about the “drop passes” and the other ridiculous amount turnovers and occasionally lazy style . . . for him to be the “elite” dman everyone says, that’s gotta be better. . . and even then, he’s just, and only just, an “offensive defenseman”, which is marketing label for a “fourth forward who can skate backwards well. We’ve all seen them cost way more goals and games than they’ve caused or won.
And we have one leading all of our Dman in ice time
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I can't see how anyone who regularly watches entire games regularly and consistently could seriously say Carlson is a Norris candidate. He has some good stats and he is not "BAD" but he aint Great neither. Someone (Rush?) said it....he has more opportunity because of the team he is on. Put Orlov on the PP and give him Carlson minutes with the top lines and I bet Orlov shines. I wonder sometimes if DC isn't closer to right (well let's not get carried away) and it's all marketing. They market Carlson as a top tier D man who should be a Norris candidate....therefore he is perceived that way.
I just don't see it. I'm not saying he is bad....just not as good as he is perceived or marketed to be. He as always been overvalued in my eyes, and my point last year(S) was why not trade him at that over inflated value while you could actually get more than his worth in return. Hind site 20/20 and all, but just like most players we will eventually lose him and not get anything in return....OR just overpay him and suffer with his contract for years to come as our overpaid D man (who doesn't hit anyone, misses the net, has no killer instinct). Yeah, that's what this team needs...an Old, overpaid, Marshmallow Pylon.
I would have left Carlson unprotected for the expansion draft and kept Schmidt. Easy to say that now that Schmidt is having a great year. I always liked Schmidt, but DID NOT consider him a top line D guy last year (yet). I don't think he showed that last year. I do think he showed he had the most potential to improve of ANY of our roster (D) and eventually would be a top line D, but we've seen plenty of "potential" turn to.....shit. Can you say shit here?
Hell, I would have left Orpik and Carlson both unprotected (because you couldn't lose both). Vegas wouldn't touch Orpik's contract, and if they did...more the better, free up cap space with which we could have resigned Alzner (or an actual elite Dman)
I think they overpaid Orlov because of the loss of Alzner/Schmidt. Also a reason they had to protect Niskanen.
At the end of last year, I felt Nisky was our best D, Orpik was old and slow and needed a miracle trade somehow to dump his salary. Figured Karl was gone no matter what, I would have resigned Orlov, but not for that $$$, but is what it is - I really think we HAD to sign him at that point. I would have protected Nisky, Orlov and Scmidt. Orlov has been better than I figured this year....doesn't make those total brain fart plays as often, and he has some skills....plus he does lay a hit now and then. Orpik has been better this year also. He is painfully slow, but can still be effective. I was really hoping one of our young D would take the opportunity and shine and have a early break out, but I don't see it. Nisky has had his worst year this year....hoping that is injury related and he returns to better form.
Anyway....got carried away (again) Rant, rant, rant.....blah, blah, blah,
Go CAPS!
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Agree with you on Carlson. He's good, not great. I heard Locker mention him as a Norris candidate and I just about fell out of the chair.
Disagree, sort of, about Orlov being overpaid. I really don't think GMBM had much of an option but to pay him. He couldn't afford to lose 3 [4 if you count Shittenpants] of his D-men in one year. Plus, I really like the trajectory he is on. His offense skillset is blossoming, his minutes are improving, and, you're right, fewer brain farts. I like his upside and I'm OK paying for his upside. Would love to see him at the point on the PP to see what he could do. If people think Carlson brings value to the PP in shooting to keep the D honest about Ovechkin, imagine what someone with Orlov's cannon could do - plus, he can't possibly miss as often as Carlson does.
I think Montreal is experiencing what a lot of us knew was already happening, Alzner's best days are behind him. He has lost a step, and he doesn't have the speed to afford to lose a step. An aging, slowing, soft, stay at home defenseman is not going to make it in this league the way it is changing.
Niskanen needs to get his head out of his backside. He's made more bonehead plays this year than I can remember him ever making.
As much as I love Schmitty, there's no way you could leave Carlson exposed to protect him. He looks great in Las Vegas [that whole team is fun as hell to watch] but he was a 6/7 D-man last year.
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Pretty much agree with everything you said...
Yeah I reread my post (rant) and I'd say I was not really as upset with the Orlov deal as most. In a couple years that contract won't look that bad. I agree with you that GM pretty much HAD to sign him and figure they both knew it.
Alzner...I'd agree. He had been great for us, but can't see paying him what he would have demanded - especially the way the game has become faster. I don't miss him as much as I thought we would.
Nisky - Oofah! WTF. I thought everyone was being hard on him this year, but he really has been not so good. I hope that turns around.
What are they paying Schmitty? Which contract/player would you prefer to have NEXT year....Carlson's or Schmitty's?
Sadly I think losing him was just result of circumstance and not a conscious decision by staff. I remember arguing last year he was NOT a top D man yet (and being lambasted for it) at the end of the season. Great guy and love to still have him and develop here, but the amount of nasty spew from the boards about losing him and how great he was...was overstated IMO.
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I like Orlov. I think he is the future of this core. I still Carlson is a bit better but Orlov has closed the gap. Whether or not you think Carlson is a Norris candidate, we still need to sign him because of the lack of options. We have no one ready to step up and there are no top end UFA dmen. Carlson could end up holding us for ransom.
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I think something went wrong with Carlson development. He was a top talented D, first round pick, started strong. He got many thing for granted. If he worked as Datsyuk he could be a top notch D in the league. He never fought for his place in NHL, when he came to Caps, there wasn't much competition for him.
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I think something went wrong with Carlson development. He was a top talented D, first round pick, started strong. He got many thing for granted. If he worked as Datsyuk he could be a top notch D in the league. He never fought for his place in NHL, when he came to Caps, there wasn't much competition for him.
You could be right. He didnt have a lot of competition to compete with here. I also think too much was expected from him. I know he was a first round pick but it was a later first round pick. I think 23rd. Find it odd that our expectations for Alzner weren't very high and he was a top 5 pick.
I know people here dont like him but I think we need to try and keep him. Sounds like the Caps feel the same way as they had discussions with Carlson already.
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I think something went wrong with Carlson development. He was a top talented D, first round pick, started strong. He got many thing for granted. If he worked as Datsyuk he could be a top notch D in the league. He never fought for his place in NHL, when he came to Caps, there wasn't much competition for him.
Hey Raven! Totally agree on your Datsyuk work ethic comparison to Carlson’s, and agree, as well, as to Carlson’s lack of fight/drive! Really good points!!
Now for a little fun!.....Forgive me, buddy, I just can’t resist!
Something did cause Carlson’s development to go wrong. It’s a molecular compound called THC!! LOL!
It accumulates in the synaptic vesicles of nerve cells, slowing the response time of electrical transmission signals, from the brain, to the muscle fiber cells. Culminating in markedly slower reaction times, and delayed decision making!!
.......IN OTHER WORDS..........some symptomatic examples for an NHL hockey defenseman, of Mr. Carlson’s general height, weight, and build, just might be.......OH, I dunno...... maybe, arriving late to the crease, slower skating relative to others on the ice, poor passing from lack of attention to detail, late returns to the bench after shift change, with possible penalty for too many men on ice, getting easily passed by opponent when racing to boards for puck possession, having more than twice the number of giveaways, over takeaways, appearing dumbfounded when opponents start cycling puck in your zone, dishing out the least number of hits of any starting defenseman, highest missed shot percentage on the team, of anyone who has scored at least 1 goal, a non-reactive facial expression when he gets gets scored on, ( too high to get angry ), and his famous “barely lucid”, post game interviews! YEAH, I’d say there were some development issues!
That Norris trophy, will make a great place for him to hide his STASH, for years to come. And let’s not forget, at probably 6-7 mil/year, wherever he goes!!
Let’s remember some here who say we have to keep him, because there is no replacement for him!!
REALLY???? WOW!!!!!
Thanks for motivating me to post tonite Raven!
Rush
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I can't see how anyone who regularly watches entire games regularly and consistently could seriously say Carlson is a Norris candidate. He has some good stats and he is not "BAD" but he aint Great neither. Someone (Rush?) said it....he has more opportunity because of the team he is on. Put Orlov on the PP and give him Carlson minutes with the top lines and I bet Orlov shines. I wonder sometimes if DC isn't closer to right (well let's not get carried away) and it's all marketing. They market Carlson as a top tier D man who should be a Norris candidate....therefore he is perceived that way.
I just don't see it. I'm not saying he is bad....just not as good as he is perceived or marketed to be. He as always been overvalued in my eyes, and my point last year(S) was why not trade him at that over inflated value while you could actually get more than his worth in return. Hind site 20/20 and all, but just like most players we will eventually lose him and not get anything in return....OR just overpay him and suffer with his contract for years to come as our overpaid D man (who doesn't hit anyone, misses the net, has no killer instinct). Yeah, that's what this team needs...an Old, overpaid, Marshmallow Pylon.
I would have left Carlson unprotected for the expansion draft and kept Schmidt. Easy to say that now that Schmidt is having a great year. I always liked Schmidt, but DID NOT consider him a top line D guy last year (yet). I don't think he showed that last year. I do think he showed he had the most potential to improve of ANY of our roster (D) and eventually would be a top line D, but we've seen plenty of "potential" turn to.....shit. Can you say shit here?
Hell, I would have left Orpik and Carlson both unprotected (because you couldn't lose both). Vegas wouldn't touch Orpik's contract, and if they did...more the better, free up cap space with which we could have resigned Alzner (or an actual elite Dman)
I think they overpaid Orlov because of the loss of Alzner/Schmidt. Also a reason they had to protect Niskanen.
At the end of last year, I felt Nisky was our best D, Orpik was old and slow and needed a miracle trade somehow to dump his salary. Figured Karl was gone no matter what, I would have resigned Orlov, but not for that $$$, but is what it is - I really think we HAD to sign him at that point. I would have protected Nisky, Orlov and Scmidt. Orlov has been better than I figured this year....doesn't make those total brain fart plays as often, and he has some skills....plus he does lay a hit now and then. Orpik has been better this year also. He is painfully slow, but can still be effective. I was really hoping one of our young D would take the opportunity and shine and have a early break out, but I don't see it. Nisky has had his worst year this year....hoping that is injury related and he returns to better form.
Anyway....got carried away (again) Rant, rant, rant.....blah, blah, blah,
Go CAPS!
A RANT Rich, maybe, but a damn good RANT! Keep up the good work!
I find myself agreeing with you a helluva lot.
I like what Orly has been doing, especially his obvious progression, from the start of this season, where it started appearing like he was regressing to the old Orlov stupidity! He has really caught some fire, AND Trotz’s attention, as he is receiving more even strength TOI than #74!!
Nisky has a few goals, but has been quite disappointing, especially in mental mistakes and turnovers!
Orpik, (although it’s a given that he is overpaid, at this point), has surprised me with his efforts, still having the most hits, as his age grows and speed diminishes! He generally, gives us his all!!
Most definitely agree that Carly should have been exposed to Vegas over Schmidt! I don’t believe GMGM, in Vegas, would have even CONSIDERED John Carlson as a selection, forcing him to possibly take Gruby, and to have decided, along with Fleury, who he would keep, and who he would deal for good $$$!
Anyway, that’s my two cents.TTYL
Rush
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About Schmidt, I was really disappointed when discovered he is not with Caps. I really liked his heart attacks!:) The guy lobes hockey! I think he was a good example of good development, same for Olov. And it also means that our coaching staff do their job.