Washington Capitals Fan Forum
Talk about Capitals hockey & more! => Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion => Topic started by: alta on Wednesday May 02, 2018, 10:45:01 AM Eastern
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the league suspended Willy for the very first game of the season for a clean by the book hit in preseason. There is no doubt the league has a bullseye on him, much like they did on OV for "playing to physically".
https://www.nhl.com/news/tom-wilson-to-have-hearing-for-actions-in-washington-game-against-pittsburgh/c-298391254?tid=287339198 (https://www.nhl.com/news/tom-wilson-to-have-hearing-for-actions-in-washington-game-against-pittsburgh/c-298391254?tid=287339198)
looked like a clean hit, Willy glided into him, clearly went for the shoulder. But since it injured one of Cyndeys girls the Caps must be punished. Don't misunderstand me here, the injury is unfortunate and not something I'd wish for against any player. Hockey is a quick physical sport and bad injuries are going to happen through no fault of the players.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DesV4FgSbsY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DesV4FgSbsY)
but Avery deserved to have his jaw broke, too bad it never happened
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good part starts at 2:20, but nothing has changed over, cept somehow they get favoritism from buttman
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX0XFJInqqQ (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX0XFJInqqQ)
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They better be calling him in to buy him lunch for improving their ratings 10x.. Fucking pussy as coach crying cause he's got some soft ass players who don't know how to get outta the fucking way. (Ō_ƆŎ) Fuck em'..
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The Pens fans are crying all over the HF boards. It sucks that he will likely get suspended for a clean hard hit.
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Well, good thing the league is starting to acknowledge this.
Up to even last year he’s of assuredly been suspended for four games invluding the playoffs
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I'm looking forward to their "proof" the hit was illegal or initially to the head..
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I'm afraid the 'we have to do something' crowd will win out in the Kangaroo court.
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It is remarkable how many "news" sites are blaming Tom for a dirty hit. These people are also showing only the one angle that hides the shoulders and appears it could be a head first hit. This shit really pisses me off. I feel bad for Tom Wilson because he really is not and has not been a dirty player. His reputation is unjustified. It would be such an injustice to the Capitals and Tom if the league does anything about the hit. The league needs to shut these pussies up and tell them to grow a pair.
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I will be shocked if he isn't suspended. It looked mostly clean to me but it resulted in a broken jaw.
The league may have to revise the rule to include verbiage about the result of the contact that was made. It will become the Tom Wilson rule.
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Bouncing his chin off the ice could have broken his jaw. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised the broken jaw story is a farce.
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Been listening to the NHL channel on Sirius all morning. The general consensus - but certainly not unanimous - was it was a legal hit with an unfortunate outcome. Nonetheless, I’ll stick with my prediction in the GDT - he’ll get a one game suspension for a legal hit.
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I spun the wheel and it said 2 games...
For any of you who haven't seen it ---> http://www.nhlwheelofjustice.com/
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still waiting for an update
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Been listening to the NHL channel on Sirius all morning. The general consensus - but certainly not unanimous - was it was a legal hit with an unfortunate outcome. Nonetheless, I’ll stick with my prediction in the GDT - he’ll get a one game suspension for a legal hit.
I agree with the consensus. I guess they will announce something soon.
We really can't afford to lose him right now.
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Bouncing his chin off the ice could have broken his jaw. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised the broken jaw story is a farce.
Absolutely. I've been critical of Willy the last 2 years but not this season. He's become just as important as anyone else on the team.
Free Willy!
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https://www.tsn.ca/wilson-has-hearing-for-hit-on-aston-reese-1.1073930
"By the letter of the law that's not a suspendable hit."
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I spun the wheel 7 times (since it is a 7 game series) Got 4 1 day suspensions, 1 4 day, 1 2 day and 1 Hockey Play. I'll go with the consensus from the WOJ and say he gets 1 game.
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I spun the wheel and it said 2 games...
For any of you who haven't seen it ---> http://www.nhlwheelofjustice.com/ (http://www.nhlwheelofjustice.com/)
I have used this before. Problem is there is no selection for shoulder-to-shoulder hit with additional head contact. The page assumes you violated a rule, which Tom Wilson did not. It also would not accept any variation of the name Zach Aston-Reese for the 2nd player.
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still waiting for an update
I've got a script running every 60 seconds looking for ANY news on Tom Wilson. Nothing yet. It's getting late. I expect something soon.
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I've got a script running every 60 seconds looking for ANY news on Tom Wilson. Nothing yet. It's getting late. I expect something soon.
Its not perfect, but it is something to pass the time while we wait for the real Wheel of Justice to spit out its answer. God I would love to watch the Pens meltdown if they actually did the right thing and didn't suspend or fine Wilson for his legal hit.
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Its not perfect, but it is something to pass the time while we wait for the real Wheel of Justice to spit out its answer. God I would love to watch the Pens meltdown if they actually did the right thing and didn't suspend or fine Wilson for his legal hit.
I love your avatar!
BTW, here a new post on WaPo with a bunch of links to some YouTube videos of rough hits by Willy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2018/05/02/tom-wilsons-most-controversial-hits-from-brayden-schenn-to-zach-aston-reese/?utm_term=.fa5240a6f304 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2018/05/02/tom-wilsons-most-controversial-hits-from-brayden-schenn-to-zach-aston-reese/?utm_term=.fa5240a6f304)
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I love your avatar!
I stole it from a thread on here somewhere.
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4pm in FLAfeelw like 9 pm in DC/Balt. 7 beers and two shots help
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I stole it from a thread on here somewhere.
Yeah, I posted it. It's one of my favorites. So is this one.
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must be one hell of a lecture, 5pm and still no word
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Does anyone know if the league would consider fining him for something like borderline reckless play as opposed to suspending him?
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Does anyone know if the league would consider fining him for something like borderline reckless play as opposed to suspending him?
my guess is it would be a suspension. That’s what they did to OV twice for being “too physical”
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I'm looking forward to their "proof" the hit was illegal or initially to the head..
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HELLS TO THE FUCKING YES. Great post here.
Exactly what the replay showed in slow motion. Wilson came in with speed, shoulder his shoulder and because of the angle of Reese and Wilson gaining height and lifting off the ground after contact, you'll notice here when he makes contact since this image is the exact moment that happens, his skates are both on the ice. The impact sends him in the air, and he rides through into the falling players head to make unfortunate contact.
As far as I'm concerned this is not a suspendable hit. I recognize the NHL is giving him a hearing, but maybe he'll just be fined or even just talked to. It could just be a stern talking to to pay attention. I'm not against the NHL trying to make the game safer, hell I'd even wouldn't of fought a 2 minute roughing penalty on the play, if only because the NHL wants to be more safe on shots that result in injuries or end up in the head. While I may not fully agree with it, at least that is consistent to the level of how Wilson was playing.
But Wilson wasn't trying to cheap shot this kid, he wasn't gooning him, and has been well reserved this entire series. The Pens have literally nothing to get up in arms about with Wilson. On the Dumoulin hit in one of the earlier games, it was clear the defender turned into Wilson as he was chasing him. Wilson almost looked to miss him, had Dumoulin been a man and just braced for Ovechkins check. Instead his recklessness and Wilsons to a slight degree combine for a unfortunate collison. Ovechkin coming in doesn't help that either, but that is the nature of a high speed physical game. Collisions happen. Unfortunate.
So for the Pens fans to paint this shit like Wilson has been cheap shotting their guys. Forget just diving on the ice that is some political ass play the system, play the social media reactions, bullshit. Wilson has played clean these playoffs. Again, if you want to protect the players and say Wilson has got to try to be a bit more away of who he is hitting size wise to try and avoid the head, and call it a 2 minute roughing on that with a warning. Sure. Absolutely. But Wilson is allowed to hit, and according to the rule book as it's written (principal point of contact on head shots is still the ruling) he was playing within the rules.
I also think it's hilarious how literally all of the Canadian Media is calling it a clean hockey check, the refs on the ice called it. Like the only people getting uppity are the Pens fans and then forcing it to be this big controversy. This is hockey folks, just because they have the weakest and whiniest Captain in a sea of tough hockey players doesn't make gritty players like Wilson goons. The fact that people on the Pens side demonize him is so harsh. It's hilarious to see them say he gets away with everything, when literally in the CBJ series he sneezed on someone and it was "roughing."
None the less, yes great image here. One hundred percent contacted the shoulder first, with arms tucked, leaned even to lower himself for the shoulder on shoulder contact. Wilson was not anticipating the velocity he had coming in, or that he'd rise, otherwise why would he lean like that to hit him clean? If Wilson WANTED to blast that kid in the head there in that situation he very much could of and it would of been a hell of a lot worse. He could of ended that kids career there honestly. Not saying he should of, but I just don't see how that isn't a clean check. The lean, the tuck, it's all clean. This controversy is so typical of the Pens fans, who seem to have embodied Crosby despite winning all these cups they can't show a hint of humility and just accept that they were out worked by some hard plays in Game 3.
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Go vote on HFBoards
Was the hit CLEAN or DIRTY?
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/wilson-high-hit-on-aston-reese-upd-hearing-today-5-2-warning-p-65.2485841/page-103 (http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/wilson-high-hit-on-aston-reese-upd-hearing-today-5-2-warning-p-65.2485841/page-103)
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All I get are the two options but no way to vote.
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Go vote on HFBoards
Was the hit CLEAN or DIRTY?
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/wilson-high-hit-on-aston-reese-upd-hearing-today-5-2-warning-p-65.2485841/page-103 (http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/wilson-high-hit-on-aston-reese-upd-hearing-today-5-2-warning-p-65.2485841/page-103)
I voted clean. Not because I'm bias but because it is a good hockey hit. That's the way hockey was meant to be played. Its a shame they are trying to take hitting out if the NHL
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All I get are the two options but no way to vote.
You have to log in first.
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I voted clean. Not because I'm bias but because it is a good hockey hit. That's the way hockey was meant to be played. Its a shame they are trying to take hitting out if the NHL
As did I.
What the he'll is taking so lonlongg?
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As did I.
What the he'll is taking so lonlongg?
I voted clean as well.
I can't believe we have not heard the verdict yet. I don't recall it ever taking this long for anyone. Hopefully they are writing up an explanation why the snowflakes should not get too upset over their decision to not penalize Wilson. They need to explain to them that it's a man's sport and the league is not made up of a bunch of Sidney Crosbys.
:lol:
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You have to log in first.
I am logged in. I can post, just not vote. My account is new, maybe I'm on some sort of probation.
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WTF. THree game suspension !!!!!! OMG
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3 games.. Pussy ass NHL. Fuck them and Pittsburgh!!
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Bettman is fukin :clown: , Cindey and the Hens must've taken turn blowing him
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The fucking NHL ALWAYS has to fuck with Washington when it comes to our chances of beating Shitsburgh or NY Rags.
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3 games.. Pussy ass NHL. Fuck them and Pittsburgh!!
I didn't expect 3 games. Fucking bs
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I guess Cindy gives better head than we gave him credit for. 3 games is bullshit, hell 1 game would have been bullshit.
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Video explanation
https://www.nhl.com/video/wilson-suspended-3-games/t-277440360/c-60214803 (https://www.nhl.com/video/wilson-suspended-3-games/t-277440360/c-60214803)
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Fucking bullshit. Caps should be enraged and they'd better play like it tomorrow. What a fucking joke. Penalizing the injury is what it is. No penalty on the ice, but a suspension. I didn't think I could hate this league and the penguins any more than I did. I was wrong.
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All I can say is it's completely typical. They'll ALWAYS find a way to fuck the Caps and hand a series to Shitsburgh.
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This is going to make the win of this series that much sweeter. We have to beat the Hens, the Refs, and the League. Fuck them all!
(Ō_ƆŎ)
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who the he'll gets a sweater? No one that comes close filling his role...
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Only the three most pivotal games we've ever played, no big deal to suspend a guy for a clean hit that the refs convened on and on the ice called clean. If it had to be done to send a message, one game was all this should of been. Pens bias and reputation and the over hurt Pens fan created this fake controversy. Bullshit.
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Three games. WTF? :raspberry:
Oh well, hens won't be getting Astin-Martin back for game 7 so who cares? Rise above Caps.
Seems a bit over the top for a hit that falls right in the gray area of the rules. A judgement call and Willy's previous suspensions and reputation did him no favors.
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After we lose this series we can all look back and truly understand that we'll never be permitted to beat the Pens in a series. The PeNsHL will make sure of it at all costs. The next few games will probably be a 5 to 1 PP ratio in the Pens favor as well.
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After we lose this series we can all look back and truly understand that we'll never be permitted to beat the Pens in a series. The PeNsHL will make sure of it at all costs. The next few games will probably be a 5 to 1 PP ratio in the Pens favor as well.
Caps ain't losing this one.
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Caps ain't losing this one.
I really hope this pulls everyone together and lights a fire under them. I have a feeling it might.
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Crosby slashes off a guys finger and doesn’t get shit. Wilson with a hit the on ice refs huddled over and thought it was clean and he gets three playoff games. Playoff games!! What an f’n joke.
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Wow. Just wow. I've never been a conspiracy guy but this is just gross. Thus is exactly what is wrong with the direction of our country....allowing heresay and public outrage to overcome reason and written established law. Read the rule, review the call by the officials on the ice and rule accordingly. NOT give in to the whim of the currently PC group that has an agenda
Just overcome Caps. Something you have been short on in my lifetime
Go Caps
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Watched the video. Still say bullshit.
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The league gave Kadri three games for a very late hit that clearly targeted the other players head and that universally was agreed upon as being predatory. And they give Wilson the same penalty for a hit that is debatable. A game would have been reasonable. 2 games would have been debatable because the injury shouldn’t determine the suspension. Three games is the NHL’s gift to the Pens
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The NHL can suck my fucking dick. These clowns are just fucking clueless. Surprised Bettman could get his dick out of Crosby's ass long enough to even consider this.
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Does anyone know where Bettman lives? Just asking ;)
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Watched the video. Still say bullshit.
I watched it again. Blown up and slowed down. Its even cleaner than I originally thought. The initial and principle contact was not with the head. I don't think the injury was even caused from the hit itself. I think it was from the contact with the ice.
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Does anyone know where Bettman lives? Just asking ;)
Isn't he roommates with Crosby
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I really hope this pulls everyone together and lights a fire under them. I have a feeling it might.
I'm with you on that Old Hat. Rally the troops. Caps vs the hens & DOPS.
With Murray in the net I like our chances.
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I'm really disappointed, Pens injuring our players and get nothing. I'm really advocating that refs are mostly fair, just miss calls, make mistakes. Now I wish that hockey was judged by AI.
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How can you suspend a guy for a hit that wasn't even called a penalty at the time? I'm not sure the hit was any different than hundreds of others. Wilson is taller than the other guy so his shoulder hitting him in the jaw isn't that surprising. This is just the result of the modern pussification of all contact sports. Develop better equipment to cut down on concussions. Take heavy contact out and you no longer have hockey. One game would seem reasonable at most. Three is an unfair advantage to the Pens who lost a 4th line scrub.
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Just saw this on twitter.. :rofl: :rofl:
"Caps recall Tim Winston. Will play on line with Kuznetsov and Ovechkin."
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It's just more proof of the top down bias against the Caps. Two of OV's three suspensions were for being too physical. The third was for doing what Cindey does at least 8 times every season yet has never been suspended for it. Willy got suspended for the first game of the season for a hit that happens three times a week in the regular season, and damn near every game in the playoffs. We have the OV rule where his sweater isn't supposed to fall inside the tailbone pad, so during play a player is supposed to make uniform adjustments instead of trying to play hockey. I'm willing to bet OldHats salary that if Wilson had hacked off another players finger there would've been a suspension, but since Buttman's darling did it, it's just an unfortunate hockey play.
Because of fan and player complaints we have the Cindey rule. Yet diving is rarely enforced. When it is, it's somehow matching minors. If a player dives to draw a penalty, how is there an infraction on the other player? If there was no dive, %99.99998 of the time there is no offending penalty in the first place. Has Cindey ever been suspended for his flagrant diving? Or his widely known dirty play? I don't pay enough attention to dirty players to know.
Next I expect to see the new Capitals rule. That would be where any given player isn't aloud to check anyone more than three inches shorter than himself lest there be inadvertent head contact on the follow through. Need I remind everyone that there is no high sticking if it happens on the follow through of a slapshot. I don't understand how that seems logical to the NHL rule makers, if they were truly trying to keep a level playing field.
Bettman used to do an hour a week on the NHL SiriusXM channel where he'd take fans questions. I don't know if he still does. If he does a Caps fan needs to ask him a few questions, and record it, for posterity.
The NHL really pisses me off sometimes.
ArJ, the NHL doesn't screw the Caps every single time they play the Hens in the post season. Last years game 7 looked more like the Caps just giving up when they clearly took the momentum in game 6. So we'll say 9 out of 10 times.
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Also, I fully expect the Hens to target someone in retaliation, especially if they are losing. That squad gets highly frustrated when losing and resorts to dirty play as a response. When they take out a Caps player there had better be equal punishment, at a minimum.
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Also, I fully expect the Hens to target someone in retaliation, especially if they are losing. That squad gets highly frustrated when losing and resorts to dirty play as a response. When they take out a Caps player there had better be equal punishment, at a minimum.
Damn right!
Call Peluso up. If they can get away with Olesniak, then we can, and should bring Peluso up
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This proves the league bias to The Hens.
I’ve said they’ve been the two worst/luckiest Cup Winners before, now we can add near proof they’re Cups where fixed
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It's just more proof of the top down bias against the Caps. Two of OV's three suspensions were for being too physical. The third was for doing what Cindey does at least 8 times every season yet has never been suspended for it. Willy got suspended for the first game of the season for a hit that happens three times a week in the regular season, and damn near every game in the playoffs. We have the OV rule where his sweater isn't supposed to fall inside the tailbone pad, so during play a player is supposed to make uniform adjustments instead of trying to play hockey. I'm willing to bet OldHats salary that if Wilson had hacked off another players finger there would've been a suspension, but since Buttman's darling did it, it's just an unfortunate hockey play.
Because of fan and player complaints we have the Cindey rule. Yet diving is rarely enforced. When it is, it's somehow matching minors. If a player dives to draw a penalty, how is there an infraction on the other player? If there was no dive, %99.99998 of the time there is no offending penalty in the first place. Has Cindey ever been suspended for his flagrant diving? Or his widely known dirty play? I don't pay enough attention to dirty players to know.
Next I expect to see the new Capitals rule. That would be where any given player isn't aloud to check anyone more than three inches shorter than himself lest there be inadvertent head contact on the follow through. Need I remind everyone that there is no high sticking if it happens on the follow through of a slapshot. I don't understand how that seems logical to the NHL rule makers, if they were truly trying to keep a level playing field.
Bettman used to do an hour a week on the NHL SiriusXM channel where he'd take fans questions. I don't know if he still does. If he does a Caps fan needs to ask him a few questions, and record it, for posterity.
The NHL really pisses me off sometimes.
ArJ, the NHL doesn't screw the Caps every single time they play the Hens in the post season. Last years game 7 looked more like the Caps just giving up when they clearly took the momentum in game 6. So we'll say 9 out of 10 times.
Unless your name is Kolzig... Remember that one?
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Unless your name is Kolzig... Remember that one?
Indeed I do.
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I have a stepbrother that lives in Lower Burrell, PA and is a huge Penguins fan. He hates that Wilson got suspended. He thought it was a clean hit and feels that I may be right in suggesting for years that the league has a major bias against the Caps, especially when it comes to the Penguins. He wants to see a fair battle and does not think that's possible after the sick suspension.
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Indeed I do.
And then a roughing on Jagr... Jagr? to go down 2 men in OT. FUCKERS.
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And then a roughing on Jagr... Jagr? to go down 2 men in OT. FUCKERS.
I was at that game. He was getting mugged in the corner and they called him. Couldn't believe it.
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I’ve always been a big Pedro’s fan, and thought he’s been the best director of Player Marketing yet. . .
But notice where he was born.
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I was at that game. He was getting mugged in the corner and they called him. Couldn't believe it.
Are you guys talking about the series we lost to Tampa Bay
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Because of fan and player complaints we have the Cindey rule. Yet diving is rarely enforced. When it is, it's somehow matching minors. If a player dives to draw a penalty, how is there an infraction on the other player? If there was no dive, %99.99998 of the time there is no offending penalty in the first place. Has Cindey ever been suspended for his flagrant diving? Or his widely known dirty play? I don't pay enough attention to dirty players to know.
I don't know if anyone has ever been suspended for diving. But to your diving to draw a penalty argument, there are instances where bringing two players to the box make sense. Not all dives are on plays that aren't penalties. You can get high sticked in the face and no sell it like a man, or you can throw you hands and stick in the air and make it blatantly obvious you were hit. It would still be a dive if they just nicked you and it wasn't nearly as bad as your making it out to be. If your natural reaction to the pain isn't to drop to the ice like a baby, then you should still get called for trying to sell it. Sometimes you'll see the refs get this right.
But more often than they get it wrong and miss the real blatant dives. And the real blatant cheap shots too if we are being honest. As much as we put all this blame on the refs, I think it's one hundred percent on the players. I do think the lack of the enforcer has created a situation where the game isn't nearly as honest as it used to be, but the players themselves still try very hard to manipulate the calls. They complain even when it's close or the ref got the call right but it was close the other way. They sell calls. All teams have players who do this, even us. Players will turn their backs intentionally to draw calls etc. When the refs are being manipulated like that all game, they are naturally going to get shit wrong because they may think a problem player is trying to sell something on either side. And in those instances sometimes hard refs will stop calling anything on either side, you see that sometimes late in playoff games.
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I don't know if anyone has ever been suspended for diving. But to your diving to draw a penalty argument, there are instances where bringing two players to the box make sense. Not all dives are on plays that aren't penalties. You can get high sticked in the face and no sell it like a man, or you can throw you hands and stick in the air and make it blatantly obvious you were hit. It would still be a dive if they just nicked you and it wasn't nearly as bad as your making it out to be. If your natural reaction to the pain isn't to drop to the ice like a baby, then you should still get called for trying to sell it. Sometimes you'll see the refs get this right.
But more often than they get it wrong and miss the real blatant dives. And the real blatant cheap shots too if we are being honest. As much as we put all this blame on the refs, I think it's one hundred percent on the players. I do think the lack of the enforcer has created a situation where the game isn't nearly as honest as it used to be, but the players themselves still try very hard to manipulate the calls. They complain even when it's close or the ref got the call right but it was close the other way. They sell calls. All teams have players who do this, even us. Players will turn their backs intentionally to draw calls etc. When the refs are being manipulated like that all game, they are naturally going to get shit wrong because they may think a problem player is trying to sell something on either side. And in those instances sometimes hard refs will stop calling anything on either side, you see that sometimes late in playoff games.
Point is, and it was in there, DOP has laid down the law the day after before. On bad hits that deserved further punishment and on hits where the zebras either missed it or like Willy's that were determined it was a legal check. Willy's isn't the first time, by a long shot. If they really wanted to fix diving they could do the same there, as they are fully aware of it.
I don't pay attention to Premier League, but didn't they fix the epic diving they get over there? Where a guy fiends injury only to have the camera show him burying his face in the turf to hide his laughter.
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Are you guys talking about the series we lost to Tampa Bay
Yeah
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Actually, I was thinking and evaluating the Wilson hit pretty carefully over the last day. Because of the laws of physics, the reason the other player got hit in the face was precisely BECAUSE Wilson followed the league directives regarding hitting, to the letter. In other words, the calamity occurred precisely BECAUSE the hit was legal. I'd give a long, detailed explanation, but you all are getting ready for the impending game 5 and wouldn't be interested.
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Actually, I was thinking and evaluating the Wilson hit pretty carefully over the last day. Because of the laws of physics, the reason the other player got hit in the face was precisely BECAUSE Wilson followed the league directives regarding hitting, to the letter. In other words, the calamity occurred precisely BECAUSE the hit was legal. I'd give a long, detailed explanation, but you all are getting ready for the impending game 5 and wouldn't be interested.
While admirable, that may not of been necessary.
Rule 48, like seemingly over 90% of the NHL rule book is obtoose, subjective nonsense that is designed as marketing, or in support of marketing to “allow” for inconsistent decisions.
When they do these hearings, they do it in reverse logic to create the narrative
-player hurt with ink to the head
-was there a conciussion? No. But jaw is on the head, so will call it a “head it”, so it looks like we’re roughing up on head injuries.
-So we’re going to do a suspension: LETS GO FRSNE BY FRANE AND WRITE THE STORY that begins with: “As the video clearly shows. . . “
They had Wilson’s suspension decided when the Hen payed on the ground and Lumpy called Gary and cried about his player getting hurt
Bottom line, the rules are written to allow manipulation and corruption by design. So the definition of “legal” depends on the narrative they want to promote