Washington Capitals Fan Forum
Talk about Capitals hockey & more! => Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion => Topic started by: OnlyCaps2 on Wednesday April 25, 2018, 12:35:26 PM Eastern
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As per Sullivan:
Sullivan: Malkin will travel to Washington; Hagelin will not. They will each be out tomorrow.
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As per Sullivan:
Sullivan: Malkin will travel to Washington; Hagelin will not. They will each be out tomorrow.
I find interesting the stories that say that "two of Pittsburgh's top forwards will miss the start of round 2." Malkin of course is a huge missing piece. But Hagelin? What of him? If Hagelin is such a big deal, then should we point out that Burakovsky has been missing for the Caps, and it isn't clear if he will be playing either? I realize that this board has been ragging on Burakovsky, but
Burakovsky: 56 G, 12 G, 25 pts, +3
Hagelin: 81 G, 10G, 31 pts, +8.
Looks like pretty much a wash to me.
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I find interesting the stories that say that "two of Pittsburgh's top forwards will miss the start of round 2." Malkin of course is a huge missing piece. But Hagelin? What of him? If Hagelin is such a big deal, then should we point out that Burakovsky has been missing for the Caps, and it isn't clear if he will be playing either? I realize that this board has been ragging on Burakovsky, but
Burakovsky: 56 G, 12 G, 25 pts, +3
Hagelin: 81 G, 10G, 31 pts, +8.
Looks like pretty much a wash to me.
Hagelin isnt just a scorer like Bura is.
Either way, we can laugh that Malkins just scared of Suzy :rofl:
(heh my icon just made me want a cigar :lol: )
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Well, better win tomorrow.
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I just saw the news that Hagelin and Malkin are out for tomorrow's game. I came to post it here, but you guys are fast.
Every little bit helps.
:fcrosby:
I saw a clip yesterday (RMNB I think) of what looked liked Crosby and other Hens practicing dives during the Flyers series. I was thinking of starting a poll on how times will the Penguins fake dives in the series. I figured it might cause some contention on what was a dive vs. not.
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Regardless of the forward situation, the big question mark for the Caps is how long Niskanen/Orlov/Carlson can handle the huge workload they are being given. Orpik's TOI is now being reduced, probably a combination of wear and tear and recognition that he has trouble with the speed game. Kempny plays limited minutes with Carlson 5 on 5 only, and the 6th defenseman plays very limited time. The depth just isn't there to handle what the top teams bring. It feels as if the Caps will need to win games like 4-3 and 5-4.
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Regardless of the forward situation, the big question mark for the Caps is how long Niskanen/Orlov/Carlson can handle the huge workload they are being given. Orpik's TOI is now being reduced, probably a combination of wear and tear and recognition that he has trouble with the speed game. Kempny plays limited minutes with Carlson 5 on 5 only, and the 6th defenseman plays very limited time. The depth just isn't there to handle what the top teams bring. It feels as if the Caps will need to win games like 4-3 and 5-4.
What else is new.
That’s how they are built. The front offices priorities arethe likes of Shattenkrap, and resigning Kuzy, Orlov, Oshie & Bura, and trading for Kemp’s and JJ28. L
As you can see, maybe aside from Kempy, none of these descisions (and “the market “ isn’t an excuse), show a priory of long playoff runs and not needing four goals just to get to OT
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Hagelin isnt just a scorer like Bura is.
Either way, we can laugh that Malkins just scared of Suzy :rofl:
(heh my icon just made me want a cigar :lol: )
Ya Hagelin is a pretty good player. He isnt a liability in his own end like Burakovsky.
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What else is new.
That’s how they are built. The front offices priorities arethe likes of Shattenkrap, and resigning Kuzy, Orlov, Oshie & Bura, and trading for Kemp’s and JJ28. L
As you can see, maybe aside from Kempy, none of these descisions (and “the market “ isn’t an excuse), show a priory of long playoff runs and not needing four goals just to get to OT
I don't have a problem with the Caps signing Kuzy and Orlov. Bytv we also need to sign some better defensive players. Can't have all skill guys.
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Ya Hagelin is a pretty good player. He isnt a liability in his own end like Burakovsky.
Where is this myth coming from that Burakovsky isn't a decent defensive player? He's no Bergeron for sure, but he's not a friggin' liability like the Kuzy/Ovie/Wilson line. Watching the games this year, time after time after time it's that line that can't get out of its own way, can't handle a forecheck, and struggles mightily to get the puck out of the defensive zone. There's more to defense than being a stonewall to the opposition. You have to be able to turn the play, and our supposed #1 line is not very good at either, frankly. They are a lot more of a concern than any line Burakovsky has been on.
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Where is this myth coming from that Burakovsky isn't a decent defensive player? He's no Bergeron for sure, but he's not a friggin' liability like the Kuzy/Ovie/Wilson line. Watching the games this year, time after time after time it's that line that can't get out of its own way, can't handle a forecheck, and struggles mightily to get the puck out of the defensive zone. There's more to defense than being a stonewall to the opposition. You have to be able to turn the play, and our supposed #1 line is not very good at either, frankly. They are a lot more of a concern than any line Burakovsky has been on.
Myth? You are kidding. Burakovsky and Vrana are probably the worst defenbsive players on the team. Burakovsky always has good defensive linemates. Come on man. He usually plays with Backstrom and Oshie. From what I have seen. We care a better team when he isnt in the lineup.
I agree that the first line us a concern at times. They get hemmed in the defensive zone alot.
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For those of you who missed Malkin's injury, he got it trying to slewfoot Lehtera. When Malkin slewed him, Lehtera fell backwards onto Malkin's outstretched leg and bent it backwards. Serves Malkin right. Hard to feel sorry for a player who hurts himself trying to hurt someone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL9Tu-tnJJY
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It doesn't look that home advantage works well for Caps in playoffs. May be to much pressure from own crowd. I wish we started in Pit, and may be game 7 was ours.
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For those of you who missed Malkin's injury, he got it trying to slewfoot Lehtera. When Malkin slewed him, Lehtera fell backwards onto Malkin's outstretched leg and bent it backwards. Serves Malkin right. Hard to feel sorry for a player who hurts himself trying to hurt someone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL9Tu-tnJJY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL9Tu-tnJJY)
The fact that slew footing is "ok", but hitting to hard can get you 5 games and more each good hit there after, proves this leagues effort to clean up the game is entertainment for soccer moms.
Malkin is a known and repeated slew footer, which is the one most dangerous and flat out chick-shit, faggy-tranny, unmasculine, other effeminate and spineless move in sports.
He needs a 50 gamesuspension and/or a target & price on his head.
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Myth? You are kidding. Burakovsky and Vrana are probably the worst defenbsive players on the team. Burakovsky always has good defensive linemates. Come on man. He usually plays with Backstrom and Oshie. From what I have seen. We care a better team when he isnt in the lineup.
I agree that the first line us a concern at times. They get hemmed in the defensive zone alot.
Damn right!
I'm sure if Trotz had his way Stevenson would have taken his spot months ago. But he's part of the E.U. with a new contract, he probably didnt have much of a choice.
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Myth? You are kidding. Burakovsky and Vrana are probably the worst defenbsive players on the team. Burakovsky always has good defensive linemates. Come on man. He usually plays with Backstrom and Oshie. From what I have seen. We care a better team when he isnt in the lineup.
I agree that the first line us a concern at times. They get hemmed in the defensive zone alot.
I'll agree that Vrana has major issues on defense, but I'm going to call you on this. Mentioning Bura and Vrana in the same sentence defensively is nonsense. Bura is a MUCH better player defensively.
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Where is this myth coming from that Burakovsky isn't a decent defensive player? He's no Bergeron for sure, but he's not a friggin' liability like the Kuzy/Ovie/Wilson line. Watching the games this year, time after time after time it's that line that can't get out of its own way, can't handle a forecheck, and struggles mightily to get the puck out of the defensive zone. There's more to defense than being a stonewall to the opposition. You have to be able to turn the play, and our supposed #1 line is not very good at either, frankly. They are a lot more of a concern than any line Burakovsky has been on.
I agree with Maaco, what the hell are you talking about?
Bura, Varna, and yes, Kuzy are absolutely defensive jokes, and give up more chances for the other team then they make for us. . . and every coach in the league knows it. In fact, they might not make other NHL teams for that reason alone.
Don't get so caught up in the fads and buzzwords that you neglect the myriad of other factor like system, situation, or opposition, at minimum. Because what you're describing up there just sounds like a video game.
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I agree with Maaco, what the hell are you talking about?
Bura, Varna, and yes, Kuzy are absolutely defensive jokes, and give up more chances for the other team then they make for us. . . and every coach in the league knows it. In fact, they might not make other NHL teams for that reason alone.
Don't get so caught up in the fads and buzzwords that you neglect the myriad of other factor like system, situation, or opposition, at minimum. Because what you're describing up there just sounds like a video game.
Bura is NOT a joke defensively. You are the one who is caught up in your own perceptions, which may or may not be true.
There are two sides to the defensive coin -- preventing shots/chances/goals when the other team has the puck in your zone, and gaining/keeping possession so that you can generate shots/chances/goals while the other team can't.
On a Caps team that struggled with that during the season -- they were somewhat in the middle of the pack, but everyone below them except NJ was a non-playoff team -- do you know who on the Caps had the best ratio of shots for to shots against? Yeah, it was Burakovsky; higher than anyone else, including Backstrom and Oshie. And it isn't true that he was always on the ice with those two. He spent quite a bit of time on the Eller line, which otherwise was NOT a possession line.
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Bura is NOT a joke defensively. You are the one who is caught up in your own perceptions, which may or may not be true.
There are two sides to the defensive coin -- preventing shots/chances/goals when the other team has the puck in your zone, and gaining/keeping possession so that you can generate shots/chances/goals while the other team can't.
On a Caps team that struggled with that during the season -- they were somewhat in the middle of the pack, but everyone below them except NJ was a non-playoff team -- do you know who on the Caps had the best ratio of shots for to shots against? Yeah, it was Burakovsky; higher than anyone else, including Backstrom and Oshie. And it isn't true that he was always on the ice with those two. He spent quite a bit of time on the Eller line, which otherwise was NOT a possession line.
:rofl: ok why do you think that is?
Because you listed supports your statements.
Now I don't get to argument the day of the playoffs, but you are debating with two people that have watched/played for a lot of teams, know strategies and analysis by using fanfare, buzzwords, and stats in iron context as a basis for argument and point if view, Maybe you should consider that if people who know what they're talking about say something, that its worth looking into and probably accurate.
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Bura is NOT a joke defensively. You are the one who is caught up in your own perceptions, which may or may not be true.
There are two sides to the defensive coin -- preventing shots/chances/goals when the other team has the puck in your zone, and gaining/keeping possession so that you can generate shots/chances/goals while the other team can't.
On a Caps team that struggled with that during the season -- they were somewhat in the middle of the pack, but everyone below them except NJ was a non-playoff team -- do you know who on the Caps had the best ratio of shots for to shots against? Yeah, it was Burakovsky; higher than anyone else, including Backstrom and Oshie. And it isn't true that he was always on the ice with those two. He spent quite a bit of time on the Eller line, which otherwise was NOT a possession line.
You do know that those stats aren't very accurate. A lot of that has to do with who your linemates are. Those stats also don't tell you what kind if players he is playing against. Burakovsky has always been a bit sheltered. He gets more offensive zone starts and he doesn't play against top lines as much. BTW those stats you are talking about aren't a defensive stat. Did know that Beagle has the worst possession stats on the team? Are you going to tell me Burakovsky is better than Beagle defensively. There is a reason Burakovsky has been in the doghouse throughout his career.
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You do know that those stats aren't very accurate. A lot of that has to do with who your linemates are. Those stats also don't tell you what kind if players he is playing against. Burakovsky has always been a bit sheltered. He gets more offensive zone starts and he doesn't play against top lines as much. BTW those stats you are talking about aren't a defensive stat. Did know that Beagle has the worst possession stats on the team? Are you going to tell me Burakovsky is better than Beagle defensively. There is a reason Burakovsky has been in the doghouse throughout his career.
Exactly!
"Possession Stats" are nearly always misinterpreted, mis-analyzed, and are little more than entreatment from a fan/not coach or player point of view.
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the SOG stat is flawed, which makes other stats based off the SOG number flawed as well
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Bura hasn't been in the doghouse, or your previous comments about him playing with good teammates wouldn't be valid. The organization in fact has not sheltered him, but given him every opportunity to play top 6, which means he has been playing against better opposition. Of course possession stats involve who your ice mates are -- but the possession stats for Bura's ice mates have depended on his being there as well.
Regardless, this entire discussion seems moot, because Bura's injury status is now classified as week-to-week (first time I've heard that), and Walton said that he is not expected to appear in this series. I think an earlier comment that we may have seen the last of him for the year indeed may be the case. If the Caps are fortunate enough to keep advancing, Trotz will be more and more loathe to break up the lineup as we get further into the playoffs to get Bura back in, with no assurances as to how he'd play coming off an extended absence.
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The biggest problem with Burakovsky is that he appears to be injury prone. This season and last season he missed a significant amount of time because of injuries. I believe if he could stay healthy he would be a very productive player and I love him on the line with Backstrom and Oshie. It is a shame he got hurt in the second game against Columbus but it is what it is. I am not ready to give up on him yet.
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On the old board I asked how long an organisation should hold on to a player waiting for him to develop into a good consistent asset. The consensus was two years, three max. We are now at four complete seasons with him and he hasn't gotten that much better. So, how long are the Caps supposed to work with this guy to get his game up to where it should/could be?
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Bura hasn't been in the doghouse, or your previous comments about him playing with good teammates wouldn't be valid. The organization in fact has not sheltered him, but given him every opportunity to play top 6, which means he has been playing against better opposition. Of course possession stats involve who your ice mates are -- but the possession stats for Bura's ice mates have depended on his being there as well.
Regardless, this entire discussion seems moot, because Bura's injury status is now classified as week-to-week (first time I've heard that), and Walton said that he is not expected to appear in this series. I think an earlier comment that we may have seen the last of him for the year indeed may be the case. If the Caps are fortunate enough to keep advancing, Trotz will be more and more loathe to break up the lineup as we get further into the playoffs to get Bura back in, with no assurances as to how he'd play coming off an extended absence.
Though Top 6 means way to much on the Caps, and even way more to most fans, than it ever should. . . it still doesn't translate to "our six best players"
Buras almost complete lack of defense makes him a liability and hindrance on defensive situations, groupings or matchups. So much that the system the line he's on plays either needs to shit to all offense, or carry dead weight on defense.
So by protected, he is not assigned to shut down scorers, but to start in offensive zones and/or play in offensive situations, not "shut down Steve Samkos", or anybody else, This is why all the data you bring up, is not applicable to your argument.
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Bura hasn't been in the doghouse, or your previous comments about him playing with good teammates wouldn't be valid. The organization in fact has not sheltered him, but given him every opportunity to play top 6, which means he has been playing against better opposition. Of course possession stats involve who your ice mates are -- but the possession stats for Bura's ice mates have depended on his being there as well.
Regardless, this entire discussion seems moot, because Bura's injury status is now classified as week-to-week (first time I've heard that), and Walton said that he is not expected to appear in this series. I think an earlier comment that we may have seen the last of him for the year indeed may be the case. If the Caps are fortunate enough to keep advancing, Trotz will be more and more loathe to break up the lineup as we get further into the playoffs to get Bura back in, with no assurances as to how he'd play coming off an extended absence.
Bura has been in the doghouse plenty. Every year Trotz has has to scratch him for a few games. Trotz calls it a reset. Whatever you call it, the guy has zero hockey IQ.
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Malkin out and we still lose. I'm done with this series. We ain't winning it.
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For those of you who missed Malkin's injury, he got it trying to slewfoot Lehtera. When Malkin slewed him, Lehtera fell backwards onto Malkin's outstretched leg and bent it backwards. Serves Malkin right. Hard to feel sorry for a player who hurts himself trying to hurt someone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL9Tu-tnJJY
Abso freakin lutly.
Live by the slew foot, die by the slew foot.