Author Topic: What happens now.  (Read 345 times)

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Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2021, 05:51:28 PM »
Yeah, I kind of had it in my head from somewhere, that there was a maximum number of teams for an NTC.
Otherwise why would we have to protect the likes of Ovi, and Backus from the expansion, like we had to against Vegas?   Surely we would have used that protection for other players?
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Online alta

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2021, 07:59:58 PM »
there is not a maximum number of teams a player can have in a NTC, it appears that's just how Kuzys contract was written
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Offline BlackIce

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2021, 10:54:25 AM »
Yeah, I kind of had it in my head from somewhere, that there was a maximum number of teams for an NTC.
Otherwise why would we have to protect the likes of Ovi, and Backus from the expansion, like we had to against Vegas?   Surely we would have used that protection for other players?




Well first of all, and expansion draft isn't a trade, so it is subject to its own rules.


As I understand it (someone correct me if I am wrong), there is such a thing as a "no movement clause" in some players' contracts, which means that the team cannot move the player anywhere, anyhow, for the duration of the contract (or however long the NMC is in effect).  That means the team cannot trade the player, waive the player, release the player, or let the player go to an expansion team.  In other words, it incorporates no-trade to the entire league, but is even stronger than that.  If a team has a player or players under that kind of contract, they MUST include those players in the protected list for the expansion draft.


Whether or not the Capitals have anyone with such a contract (Ovie/Backstrom??) I do not know.

Online alta

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2021, 12:37:20 PM »
From what I've seen over the years, all a NTC does is keep the player in the loop for trade prospects rather than be surprised about it like Vrana was, but shouldn't have been. There have been numerous players that have NTCs that were traded, but they had to be talked to first to waive the NTC. Same for being put on waivers, per the CBA.


https://www.thefourthperiod.com/no-trade-clauses/
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Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2021, 01:52:15 PM »
i live to learn.    ;D
Thanks for clearing some of that up for me.   8)
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Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2021, 02:20:53 PM »
From what I've seen over the years, all a NTC does is keep the player in the loop for trade prospects rather than be surprised about it like Vrana was, but shouldn't have been. There have been numerous players that have NTCs that were traded, but they had to be talked to first to waive the NTC. Same for being put on waivers, per the CBA.


https://www.thefourthperiod.com/no-trade-clauses/

I have another question....    :wackysmile:    (Of course I do!   :uh-huh: )
Why would anybody with a NMC, also have NTC's?   As per that very revealing list in your link.  Thank you for that, btw.   ;)
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Online alta

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2021, 04:11:19 PM »
I have another question....    :wackysmile:    (Of course I do!   :uh-huh: )
Why would anybody with a NMC, also have NTC's?   As per that very revealing list in your link.  Thank you for that, btw.   ;)


NTC and NMC are the same thing
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Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2021, 06:08:03 PM »

NTC and NMC are the same thing

That doesn't make sense to me at all.    :huh:

If that were the case, why would any player need both?
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Offline BlackIce

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2021, 07:00:06 PM »
The following commentary on NTC and NMC contracts is taken from a Web page called "Winnipeg Hockey Talk."




No-Movement Clause (NMC) and No-Trade Clause (NTC) Eligibility:
Once a National Hockey League player has played seven years or reached twenty-seven years of age (Group 3 Free Agent Status) he is eligible to qualify for the NMC or NTC in his contract.  These clauses can start mid-contract once the player reaches his Group 3 status. (example: in the fourth year of a seven-year deal)
There are basically two types of movement clauses NHL GMs need to pay attention to and/or work around with some players.
The No-Movement Clause:
A No-Movement Clause prohibits a team from moving a player by trade, waivers, or assigning that player to the minors without the player’s consent. This keeps the player with the pro team unless the player approves one of these moves. The player has the final say.  Some players will often have a limited trade list here as well.   A No-Movement Clause does not restrict a team from buying out or terminating a player’s contract.
The No-Trade Clause:
A No-Trade Clause is much less restrictive.  It only places restrictions on movement by trade.  A player with a No-Trade Clause cannot be traded by a team unless the player provides consent.  A limited (partial or modified) No-Trade Clause is often less restrictive than a full No-Trade Clause and depends on the conditions negotiated in the player’s contracts.  Often with these No-Trade Clauses, the player is asked to provide a list of teams to which he would be willing to be traded or NOT traded to.  This list can change or fluctuate from season to season.




So according to this, a no-movement clause is equivalent to a complete no-trade clause (rather than a limited-list no-trade clause) plus prohibitions on waivers or send-to-the-minors.  Of course, as alta has correctly pointed out, a player can always agree to void a contract clause and allow a trade/movement if he wishes.  If the parties to a contract agree, ANY contract provision can be modified.




Interestingly, it appears as though a limited no-trade provision can be worked into an otherwise no-movement clause.  And, a team can still buy out a player.  I suppose, though, that a player could also negotiate a separate no-buyout clause into his contract if the team were willing to go along with it.


Sorry for all the  and  crumbs that make this difficult to read.  They weren't there when I cut and pasted the article.

Online alta

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2021, 08:03:08 PM »
this platform doesn't like cut and paste, it's always a mess
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Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2021, 12:27:35 AM »
Thank you fellas.  I get it.    :) Thank you for taking the time to explain the difference.   :hearts:

I pretty much got the NTC   The NMC and then the combination of the two had me stumped.....

Education is a wonderfull thing.   ;)
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Offline richkrt99

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2021, 12:59:33 PM »
Thank you fellas.  I get it.    :) Thank you for taking the time to explain the difference.   :hearts:

I pretty much got the NTC   The NMC and then the combination of the two had me stumped.....

Education is a wonderfull thing.   ;)


Kuzy has a modified NTC which restricts WHICH teams the player can not be moved to.  Kuzy specifically has a modified No Trade Clause that says he can not be traded to 15 teams.  At the beginning of each year He/his agent supply a list of 15 teams that HE will not accept a trade to that season.  That's basically 1/2 the NHL teams.  This means the Caps can trade him to 15 other teams without consenting him or his agent.  The 15 teams (the ones on his No-Trade list for that season) would require the Caps get him/agent to agree to the move by requesting him to waive his no move clause.  (This does happen)


Any Player with any type of NMC, NTC must be protected in the expansion Draft.  So for the Caps....
Ovie, Carlson, Kuzy, Oshie (Lil's going to love this :hearts: ), Wilson, Orlov all MUST BE protected under this rule.  So there's 4 of your protected forwards and 2 of the protected D for the Caps


There is no rule that says teams cannot trade players RIGHT NOW though.  the "trade deadline" restriction only prohibits any players moved after the deadline from playing in the playoffs that year.   During the Vegas draft, several teams traded for players in the summer specifically to put them on the unprotected list.  (of course you need the cap space to do that)


The draft is July 21.
there are other key dates leading up to that, but I could not find the specific dates listed, but for example...


The last day teams can request a player waive his "no move" clause is usually a couple days before the draft actually begins (Vegas date was June 15 for a June 17 draft)


So the Caps could trade Kuzy to 15 teams without asking him, OR request he waive his NTC in order to trade him to other teams, OR ask him to waive it to be eligible for the draft.  I am not sure, but I believe if they ask him to waive it for the draft then essentially they are putting him on waivers and someone else could pick him up for nothing (except the cost of his contract)


Also... Seattle CAN make trades PRIOR to the draft (as long as they have paid their final franchise $$$ to the NHL, which I think they did in April)
Lastly - Seattle CAN negotiate with teams PRIOR to the draft to NOT select eligible players.  For example, Caps could negotiate with Seattle to NOT select "X" player and though not official until the draft, that player would NOT be selected (in exchange for something...draft picks, other trades, etc)  George McPhee did this in Vegas ALOT and got bunches of picks and other players in addition to what happened on draft day.  Doing so in secret enabled him to load up on shit from multiple teams.  Kind of sneaky, but legal and as he negotiated PRIOR to the draft to NOT select players, he loaded up with essentially free extras.  And did it work?  I'd say so...make the SC finals in their 1st year  (and then lost to the Caps - HELL YEAH)  Also advantage, because knowing before the draft what extras already banked, he knew better what he needed to draft for.  This made/makes the draft exceptionally overly generous to the expansion team.  Seattle has the very same rules to work with, but GM's are probably a bit more weary and savvy now, so doubt Seattle can work as many extra freebies as Vegas did.





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Online alta

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2021, 01:07:38 PM »
Ovie doesn't need to be protected because he's not currently under contract with a team so he's not eligible for the expansion draft

this is the same game the Caps played with Oshie for the Vegas draft and the league has said the rules this time will be exactly the same


that's why they haven't done anything official about his contract
Knowledge is knowing that the Tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is knowing that you shouldn't include it in a Fruit Salad

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