Author Topic: What happens now.  (Read 347 times)

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Offline Surreylily

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What happens now.
« on: May 25, 2021, 09:37:00 PM »
What happens now

Okay.     One by one.   Let's start at the top.
OVI.    Not going anywhere.  Not untill he decides.   Those llttle darts from his "office" are just that fractiom  slower therse days, btt he's still the Silverback on this team and will take anybody to the boards and let them know it. 
 Face of the CAps.  Going nowhere.

Backus.   Tricky one.   Absolutely one of the best players in the league..  He's hurt.  Again.  ... I think hes done.   I thiink he's done.

Oshie.    The only other player I would absolutely fight to keep.  Not just because of what he does on the ice, crashing the net, but mottly for what he does behid the scene.   


After Ovi.  This is my only other KEEPER.

Aithough I rsally like Sprong and Hathway.

There is one other player that I feel i need to consider..



Our Tommy Gun  Our big Willy.Tom Wilson.... He's probably the only player every single other team wants to have.  He was even touted to be our next captain, maybe.   I kind of see it slightly different.
The NHL want him out.  They will make sure that happens. Totally wrong, inho, but ftey will male it happens.
Tommy is damned of does, damned it he doesn/t.i
He's our krypronite..
Our goalies.   Pfff.   You might not like this, but I thought our best one was Anderson.

The only other person I might keep would be Eller........







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Offline BlackIce

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2021, 10:24:25 PM »
Ovie controls nothing.  He is a pending UFA.  Yes, I think he wants to return to DC if anywhere, but if he and the organization can't make things work out, he may just go back to Russia to play.  The question is, does he care more about legacy (i.e., goals) or about titles?  If he cares about legacy more he may not care if the team around him isn't as strong as it has been.  If he cares more about titles he's got to realize that in the current financial environment, every additional dollar he takes is one that can't be spent on other roster assets.


It's hard to say Backstrom is done when during the regular season he was EXACTLY the same point-per-game player he has been his entire career.  Players like him, you never hear about their injuries IF in fact he was under the weather.  Part of the problem may have been that he was asked to do too much in the playoffs because of Kuzy's antics.


Anderson may have been the best goalie, but he's 40 years old.  You don't hang your hat on a guy like him.


Wilson is the guy who's going nowhere, unless he IS drummed out of the league.

Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2021, 10:56:28 PM »
Who would you keep?
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Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2021, 11:25:11 PM »
You ... sound.. different.........
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Offline richkrt99

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2021, 12:42:48 PM »
I believe Ovi will be back.  He is good for the team image & marketing in that he IS the franchise.  There are different levels of success when it comes to the franchise (and $$$ is one of them)
He does control it somewhat as the ball is in his court.  The team simply can not pay him $12m a year and put a roster out that will be competitive.  He's not Connor McDavid....or Leon Draisaitl.  Ovi isn't worth it and more importantly the Capitals simply can't afford it.  SO if he demands something outrageous, then he's gone....or should be.  I figure they will come to terms with something that is overpaying him but not outrageously...I hope (anything over 9m is over paying).  I'm hoping they get him for <10m for three years and that's it. Or 8.5 for 4 or something.  But, I won't be surprised when they pay him 11m or something crazy, just disappointed.
He has the ability to help HIS team by taking a cap friendly salary.  Not saying he has to or even that he should (well I think he should) or that it is fair that he take a pay cut, but He COULD do this if he really wants to win and wants to win here.
Ovie has control over what salary he demands...so in that factor he DOES Control it.  It's more his choice than it is management's.  They can't choose to pay him more because it simply isn't there.

Backy will be back.  Whether he is "worth" his salary remains to be seen.  He has had some minor injuries in the past, and I don't think he is done, but his best days are behind him.  He can still be a solid 2c I think, but they need to cut back on all his extra duties (like PK) if they want to prolong his effectiveness.  That wasn't possible at the end of this season and playoffs and it showed.

Anderson...meh.  He was okay, but he had glaring holes and he will never be a true starting NHL goalie again.  He's a UFA and won't be back.  I'd be surprised if he plays anywhere next year.  Like Black said...not hanging a hat on him.
After all being said and all the drama around it, I believe Samsonov was the best option to actually win.  Remember he is young and really hasn't played that much.  He needs some serious coaching and such  (ahem...stay in position...and HOLD onto your damn stick!)  Question is....will he get the proper coaching and guidance needed here to improve his game....or will he become a passenger on the Kuzy train?
He does NOT have a contract so...who the hell knows.  He is an RFA.  I guess we will see this summer how upset the Caps are with him and his antics.  Him playing over Anderson in the last two playoff games (and performing pretty well) should tell you what the Caps think about Anderson. 


Wilson is going nowhere.  As it should be.  For all the whining about him around the league, I'll bet you even the Rangers would welcome him with open arms.
The NHL has hampered his overall effectiveness.  I don't like it one bit, but they want to take the roughness out of the game.  Live with it or get out.  I think Willy has gotten that message and it has impacted his game.  He can still be highly effective and worth his salary.  You don't pay a goon $5m a year no matter how much the fans like him.  He needs to adjust his game by contributing more on the score sheet.  I think he will.  This year was not good for him.  Next year will be better.


Oshie....I like him a lot, but his age is catching up with him too.  He still competes and gives the effort but like most of this team - his best days are well behind him.  I'd probably protect him in the draft, but losing him would not be the end of the world.  He is a great team guy and locker room guy, and fan guy, and head and heart are there, but stars need the legs and lungs too.


Most of the decisions are made anyway. Only guys to worry about are guys who are not signed next year:


Ovi is a UFA:  sign him to a FAIR deal...everything else in the offseason stems from what happens with his contract.
Kuzy:  under contract, but fuck him.  Send him packing - I think the coach is done with him, but Caps management can be stubborn.  If you CAN'T swing a deal with him in it then he will be back.  I'd expect that doesn't happen, but WTF knows.
Charra is UFA:  let him walk.  Unless he will play for $750k again.  Great guy, but old and slow.  Not sure he helps the FUTURE of this team.  Kempny will be back so we don't need him (not that Kempny IMPROVES the D)
Samsonov is RFA:  Based on our options...sign him unless he's burned too many bridges in your eyes
Anderson is UFA:  I don't expect him back, nor do I want him
Lundqvist is UFA:  Do you want to chance on him?  I don't know.  I kind of figured the heart surgery ended his playing days, but apparently not.
Raffl is UFA:  meh...didn't see much on him, but Caps will NEED some bargain contract guys.
Carr is UFA:  couldn't break the lineup, but I expect maybe the lineup is thinner next year so...


Geez...is this the boredom thread or what.  Sorry for the long post.





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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2021, 01:30:10 PM »
On the bright side..  Anderson and Lundquist will be gone, and likely Chara as well. Which means the Caps won't be the oldest team in the league anymore.


Though I wouldnt mind one more year of Chara if he only wants $1M just to keep playing
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Offline Mickstix

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2021, 04:27:26 PM »
I imagine not much will change. They NEED cap space, so possibly 1 big contract or a couple smaller ones. Kuzy is the obvious choice, but we'll see. If not him, maybe Dillon and Schultz.. Doubt they'd move Carlson. Feels like they want to keep Oshie, but again, we'll have to see.

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2021, 04:36:53 PM »
Honestly there isn't much point at speculation until we see who goes to Seatle
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Offline Beaglefan2

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2021, 04:56:37 PM »
Backstrom may be hurt, but historically he is not a playoff player.  He has the skills, he just lacks the intensity and desire - he is the passive guy that passes and is happy to set up Ovi.  I hate to say it because I have enjoyed watching him, but at this point his contract is going to really hurt and I think he sets a tone that sends a passive message to the younger guys.


Whatever we do, we need more guys that want to win more than anything - the guys that would run a zamboni over their mother to win a game.  The only players I think that have that burning desire are Ovi, Oshie and Sheary.  Then there are a few that are close like Willy, Hathaway, Sprong, Dowd, Orlov. I'm sure I missed one or two, but we just don't have enough younger guys with burning desire.

Offline richkrt99

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2021, 08:00:05 PM »
I heard a brief radio teaser that GMBM stated he wants the team to get younger next year.  Went to Caps website and watched his 5/26/21 interview.



Fever and Alexeyev names were listed as guys who will at least chance to play next year, and that Fever would be a full time player.


Ovi and team "will work things out" for him to finish career here
"Kuzy had Covid twice this year so we're not sure how that affected him and he was inconsistent"   ::)
LOTS of questions about Kuzy and his consistency.  "We were thin up the middle due to injury and performance and we lost because of it"  Ouch.  That's you they talking about Kuzy.


Sounds like they plan to keep Oshie so Lil   :hearts: should be happy

Also sounds like Samsonov and Vitek are the plan for next year as well.

Sounds like they are not planning on Charra being back.

"Rebuild" is premature and they are not there yet, but want to bring in some younger players.  The decision they made to sign Backy and Ovi indicates they are not in a rebuild scenario just yet.

And....

"Ovie will finish his career here in Washington and they want to make sure he is happy with the situation"....Yikes - sounds like they are willing to give him whatever he wants... but I hope Ovie realizes that is at the hinderance of team success if he wants TOO MUCH $$$





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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2021, 11:13:48 AM »
As I noted, this is likely a blessing in disguise for the Caps as the players know there won't be any pay raises. But 5 more years means a fire sale in D.C.


https://novacapsfans.com/2021/05/29/report-salary-cap-could-remain-flat-for-five-more-seasons/
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Offline Beaglefan2

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2021, 11:47:21 AM »
I saw where part of Kuzys contract is a no trade clause for 15 teams.  That's not gonna help.


He may say they want to keep Oshie, but I bet a nickle they leave him exposed.


Wish they would leave Backstrom and Carlson exposed but they won't.

Offline waynerivers

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2021, 12:53:41 PM »
Like I said before, the team is too old, slow and, in some cases, soft to make any playoff run or maybe even make the playoffs.  I'm thinking particularly of Backstrom, Kuz and Carlson here.  Backstrom may have led the team in scoring but that was no check pond hockey.  When the playoffs start he's easily neutralized as has happened the last 3 years. 

Ovie will be back.  I don't see management alienating the fans by having him in another uniform, particularly this management which seems to place keeping "fan favorites" way past their sell date as some sort of priority.  Here's my take on the rest of the team:

Forwards- keep Oshie, Wilson, Eller, Dowd, Hathaway and Mantha.  The rest can go via trade, expansion draft or release.  That includes guys like Sheary and Hagelin who people seem to like but who mainly do a bunch of frantic skating around without much production and they are midgets to boot.  Backstrom and Kuz I've already mentioned.  I think this is a much better team without them at this point.  We need to get younger, faster and tougher overall.  You watch Colorado, Tampa and many of the other teams and we look like slow motion in comparison.

Defense- I'd keep Orlov and Dillon.  I'd actively look to get rid of Carlson.  He's slow as hell, a defensive nightmare, has no toughness and is overrated which is the perfect set up to dump him on some unsuspecting team for players and/or draft picks.  The rest can all go one way or another.

Goaltenders- I thought Samsonov kept the Boston series from being even worse than it was.  He stood on his head much of the time and I'll forgive him the one bonehead play behind the net.  He can develop into one of the better goalies in the league IMO.  Vanacek is a capable backup.

Offline waynerivers

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2021, 01:02:46 PM »
I saw where part of Kuzys contract is a no trade clause for 15 teams.  That's not gonna help.


He may say they want to keep Oshie, but I bet a nickle they leave him exposed.


Wish they would leave Backstrom and Carlson exposed but they won't.


Management ain't that bright.  If they were, Burakovsky and Vrana would still be here instead of Kuz and Backstrom.

Offline justwincaps

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2021, 02:07:21 PM »
I saw where part of Kuzys contract is a no trade clause for 15 teams.  That's not gonna help.


He may say they want to keep Oshie, but I bet a nickle they leave him exposed.


Wish they would leave Backstrom and Carlson exposed but they won't.

Don't see the advantage in saying you want to not expose Oshie [pleasing the fanbase] only to then turnaround and expose him.

I don't know how the NTC works in relation to expansion teams - does it still apply?

I'd be surprised if what turns out is anything different than what we would expect:Ovie waits until after the draft to signs his new deal.

Oshie [1], Nicky [2] and Willie [3]are safe.Eller [4] seems to be safe, probably cause his contract is manageable.

I'd also protect Mantha [5] and Sprong [6].

That leaves one more forward to protect. Kuzy?  Sheary?

God knows they'll probably protect Carlson [1]. He's optional to me. 

I suspect they'll also protect Orlov [2].

3rd D-man is??   Schulz?  Dillon?

Goalie is Sammy.

Personally I'm done with Kuzy and there is some factor of "addition by subtraction".  He's a distraction.  He's had multiple chances to grow up and it isn't happening.


Offline waynerivers

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2021, 02:41:53 PM »
I'd probably hold onto Sprong, too, in the absence of any upgrade.  He looked pretty good for the most part.

Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2021, 04:07:13 AM »
Like I said before, the team is too old, slow and, in some cases, soft to make any playoff run or maybe even make the playoffs.  I'm thinking particularly of Backstrom, Kuz and Carlson here.  Backstrom may have led the team in scoring but that was no check pond hockey.  When the playoffs start he's easily neutralized as has happened the last 3 years. 

Ovie will be back.  I don't see management alienating the fans by having him in another uniform, particularly this management which seems to place keeping "fan favorites" way past their sell date as some sort of priority.  Here's my take on the rest of the team:

Forwards- keep Oshie, Wilson, Eller, Dowd, Hathaway and Mantha.  The rest can go via trade, expansion draft or release.  That includes guys like Sheary and Hagelin who people seem to like but who mainly do a bunch of frantic skating around without much production and they are midgets to boot.  Backstrom and Kuz I've already mentioned.  I think this is a much better team without them at this point.  We need to get younger, faster and tougher overall.  You watch Colorado, Tampa and many of the other teams and we look like slow motion in comparison.

Defense- I'd keep Orlov and Dillon.  I'd actively look to get rid of Carlson.  He's slow as hell, a defensive nightmare, has no toughness and is overrated which is the perfect set up to dump him on some unsuspecting team for players and/or draft picks.  The rest can all go one way or another.

Goaltenders- I thought Samsonov kept the Boston series from being even worse than it was.  He stood on his head much of the time and I'll forgive him the one bonehead play behind the net.  He can develop into one of the better goalies in the league IMO.  Vanacek is a capable backup.


I agree with your keepers, for sure, but I have a diffrerence of opinion  after that

I think I migt have been a little too hard on Backus.  he's the absolute greateast unsung hero of our team and the best center in the NHL.  He iisn't a fighter.  Not everybodyy is.  different skill sets, but you can't shove him off a puck, especially on the PP.  He's not soft, hes just not a fighter.
Similarly with Dylan.  His D game has improved immensely over the last few years.   It took him about a year and a half to take over Mike greenes slot at point on the PP and learn to feed Ovi those one timers.   How long will it take somebody else, if he were to go?

I have only one candidate and I'm sure you'll laugh at me, . but... Smiffy.    If we got Smiffy back, I'm sure he could do it.   And for cheap as chips!  I don't even know where he is now, but hes been around the block a bit.  I reckon he'd jump at the chance to be back here and then make the most of it.

I can't see us ever winning a cup with either of our current goalies.   :(   Sammy's balls haven't dropped yet and he still thinks playing his gameboy is more important.
He's definitely has the more potential of the two, BUT......   We've seen the difference.   


They both have the exact same defect though and that's coming so far out of their net.
Unless we get the goalie whisperer back here.... and Sammy somehow gets over puberty and grows a brain..........  Not gonna happen.   He has all the talent......   I raise you Sasha Semin...   :raspberry:

 :'(
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Offline Surreylily

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2021, 04:22:44 AM »

I don't know how the NTC works in relation to expansion teams - does it still apply?




Pretty sure the NTC doesn't come in to play with a new expansion team.  How can it?   You can't protect yourself from a team that doesn't exist, if you made that list a couple of years or more ago.
I think management protects you, within the boundaries of that selection or you're up for grabs.
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Offline BlackIce

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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2021, 07:06:52 AM »
I don't know how the NTC works in relation to expansion teams - does it still apply?




Pretty sure the NTC doesn't come in to play with a new expansion team.  How can it?   You can't protect yourself from a team that doesn't exist, if you made that list a couple of years or more ago.
I think management protects you, within the boundaries of that selection or you're up for grabs.




A contract is between a player and his team.  It can say ANYTHING, as long as the player and the organization agree to it and sign on the dotted line, and any meaning or interpretation of it involves the parties to the contract, not some outside entity.


A contract NTC doesn't have to have a list of teams.  If a contract says that the team is forbidden to trade a player to any other NHL franchise for the duration of the contract (or for the first X years of the contract, or whatever), that is what it means.  The fact that some other team comes into existence after the contract starts doesn't change the wording -- necessarily.  Also, the contract COULD have a list, but in addition, a clause barring a trade to any team that subsequently comes into existence.  Or even more restrictively, a contract COULD specify in its NTC that the team cannot trade the player to any other team that exists at the time the contract is signed, or that may come into being subsequent to its signing.  Such wording would explicitly address the issue of an expansion team. 

Absent that specific a declaration, I suppose anything is possible.  I suppose a lawyer could be brought in to argue that unless wording this explicit is in the contract, a legal argument could be made that a "no other franchise" designation does not apply to a team that comes into existence after its signing.  Then a counter-argument could be made that, once an expansion team comes into existence it is as much an NHL team as any other franchise, so the NTC prohibition applies to it as well.  As a not-legal-scholar, I side with this latter opinion.  But who knows what would happen in a court of law? 


If we start down the slope of parsing "forbidden to trade," then what if a team relocates and changes its name?  Is it the old team in a new jersey?  Or is the old team deleted and replaced by a new team, to which the NTC does not apply?  That the NTC applies here is probably an easier case to make, because the structure and roster of the team could well be the same as that of the "previous" team.


Now I DO agree that if the contract says that the player cannot be traded to Team X or Team Y or Team Z or ..... and so on, then if a new expansion team comes into existence it is not covered under the NTC restrictions.  However, the prohibitions could end with ".... or any team created subsequent to the signing of this contract."  In which case trade to the expansion team IS forbidden.  The point is, unless we know the precise contractual wording we can't make an informed judgment about what is or is not allowed. 


This is an unfortunate reality of the legal system.  Legal language is what it is, and it means what it says -- except that holes and uncertainties can be injected into almost any legal language given a lawyer with the right insights -- or the right imagination.




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Re: What happens now.
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2021, 12:41:58 PM »
A few months ago I read that Kuzy has a no trade clause to 15 specific teams. I have yet to see that list though. So if that part is true, that leaves half the league he could be traded to. Also, given its not a blanket NTC, I would think there wasn't a provision put in for expansion teams.


On the face of it, I'd guess it's all the western teams. After Gretzgy was traded to NY he said he could've played another 5 years if his entire career was in the east because of the ease of travel.



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