Author Topic: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W  (Read 18147 times)

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Online alta

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #60 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 05:36:14 PM Eastern »
I'll ask one more time and see if anyone will actually answer me..

If Carlson wasn't scoring would he still be getting all this praise in the media? Or would he scorned for being an over paid dman?

                    goals   assists
Carlson            11       31
Kempny            3         9
Orlov                2         9
Seigenthaler      1         4
Gudas                0         7
Jensen                0         2


                       
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Offline Mickstix

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #61 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 05:37:10 PM Eastern »
Whens the last time the norris winner wasn't an offensive D man?   :huh: Besides, he's the best defensive defenseman on our defensive hockey team, so don't be getting all defensive!  :rofl:

Offline 4 Caps

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #62 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 05:58:48 PM Eastern »
Richkrt99, by your standards who do you think deserves the Norris trophy now.  Give me some names so we can compare them to Carlson. 

Offline richkrt99

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #63 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 06:01:21 PM Eastern »
Whens the last time the norris winner wasn't an offensive D man?   :huh: Besides, he's the best defensive defenseman on our defensive hockey team, so don't be getting all defensive!  :rofl:




I take offense to that  :snicker:


And I already said I'm happy to oblige Johhny Q the new title of "the most offensive defenseman".  I find him to be truly offensive






And the Norris should be awarded to defensive guys like.....Bobby Orr, and ....er, um....Ray Bourque, and um....
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Offline Ozzies09tc

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #64 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 06:03:16 PM Eastern »
Isnt Johnny Norris also going against the top lines of the opposing teams and shutting them down?


I mean he is a +21 this year and a +101 on his career
you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
because some watery tart threw a sword at you

Offline richkrt99

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #65 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 06:36:36 PM Eastern »
Isnt Johnny Norris also going against the top lines of the opposing teams and shutting them down?


I mean he is a +21 this year and a +101 on his career


That's Johhny Q Norris to you buddy

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Offline Mickstix

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #66 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 07:41:59 PM Eastern »

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #67 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 08:42:45 PM Eastern »
The idea that Carlson is simply an offensive defenseman is not true.  If he is so bad defending why does Rierden have him out there at the end of games when the Caps are protecting a 1 goal lead?  The fact is that Carlson is solid defensively, he is rarely out of position and you never see him get beat by an onrushing forward.  He is very good at tying up opposing players sticks and neutralizing them.  While he may not throw a lot of hits he is one of the leaders in blocking shots.  He is a good all around defenseman and the Caps are fortunate to have him.


With the utmost respect 4Caps, I will disagree.
Not 100%, but certainly with much of the assertion that Carlson is a “solid”, defenseman.


**I interpret “solid”, for a DEFENSEMAN, as meaning FAIRLY well-rounded, in ALL the aspects of hockey defensive skills, maneuvers, and tactics. OR; said another way, “ALL AROUND”, fairly good or decent. SLIGHTLY ABOVE, in some areas, and also SLIGHTLY BELOW, in other areas, but still decently adequate, in all phases of hockey defense!**


If you will grant me the above paragraph, as a definition of “SOLID”, as a DEFENSEMAN, (which is a pretty fair one, IMO), then my disagreement remains, and I can proceed with my supportive points.
If it is NOT a definition, that is at least, close to what you define as “SOLID”, then you might as well skip my reasoning that follows, as it may skirt the edges of validity, for you.


I will proceed, assuming we have the same rough idea of what solid defenseman means:  (I’ll try to go point by point, from your post).



1) Rierden using Carlson in final minutes of a close game:


Ok, well I say, minimal logic there, 4 Caps.  Rierden also uses Ovi in final minutes of a close game, and Ovi is about as defensively responsible as my granddaughter! I will grant you that Carlsons bring up passes have ever so slightly improved, BUT, in the very situations you describe, I observe Carlson as the “Icing King”! Which ALWAYS brings back DANGEROUS face offs in our zone, AGAIN and AGAIN!


I am NOT talking about icing the puck, as an intelligent, LAST RESORT, tactic, when the opponent is cycling well, creating some defensive confusion, and amid an onslaught of SOG’s coming at our goalie, in the last minute or so of the game.  THAT WOULD BE SMART!!


I AM talking about the ridiculously, habitual, ICING, in the last minute or two, where we see Carlson, singularly, with an adequate amount of time and space, to do otherwise, makes that all too familiar, panicky ICING pass, PRECISELY because he DOESNT PERCEIVE, that he actually DOES have time for other options. He has either become CONFUSED, or SCARED that he’s about to get hit, OR BOTH!!
This phenomena happens often enough to be NOTEWORTHY, and is certainly not “SOLID”, or in any way defensively responsible!


2) Carlson rarely out of position/never beat by onrushing forward:


Are we talking Carlsons  NHL CAREER, as a DEFENSEMAN, or just the microscopic view of 1/3 of his 2019 season!


Two words; CARLSONS ASS!!  The biggest and best SCREEN to Holtbys view, in Caps history! In the language of Carlson...guarding the crease! LOL!
Kidding aside, follow Carlson fully, in the crease one time, and tell me, ANYONE PLEASE, how many times he is in such a good “position”, as to win MORE of the crease battles than he LOSES. He almost NEVER wins a crease battle!
This is NOT a “SOLID” defenseman characteristic!!


As far as onrushing forwards, 4Caps, I’ll grant that it’s happening less this year, that he gets beat. Much of this however, is due to Carlsons different offensive role, nowadays.
Once over the blue line, Carlson, now, receives training to routinely, shoot deeper into the zone, for more scoring opportunities, THUS, a forward, (Backy, Vrana, Oshie, etc), must drop back to cover, HENCE, Carlson is not in the situation to be onrushed, by a good outlet pass from the opponent, as often!


Now, If we look at JUST last season, I can easily count two or three instances, two of them, for either a game tying, or game winning goal, where Carlson was in perfect position, at, or just after the blue line, where the forward DID have the onrush, with Carlson RIGHT in front of him, and that forward simply shot, AND MADE, the goal, as if Carlson was NO IMPEDIMENT whatsoever.
Holtby was partially to blame, but in NO way, would any “SOLID” defenseman, have allowed such a shot to be taken, with that most minuscule amount of interference to the shot!  This can be attributed to John Carlsons famous aversion to physical contact, PERIOD!  Solid defenseman??? Hardly!


3)Tying up opponents sticks, and neutralizing them:


Carlsons ONE and only defensive weapon, the poke check! I’ll give PARTIAL credit, here. When the defensive posture situation CALLS for a poke check, then YES, Carlson does well! Even SOLID, I’ll give you that.


The problem is Carlson employs the poke check FAR TOO OFTEN, ( its all he knows), OR, even better, all that he is COMFORTABLE with doing!  Most other defensive tactics require some level of PHYSICALITY! (That’s just not in the Carlson repertoire).
And let’s not get started on how often Carlson employees the poke check, when a better tactic should have been used, and our opponents get to set up nicely in our zone, resulting in a great chance SOG!!
Partial SOLID, for the poke check, only!


4) Not the best at throwing hits:


Huge understatement 4Caps. He’s 6’3”, 215. If he was even SLIGHTLY UNDER the average, of 1st line defenseman, of his general size, I’d give the guy a break. He was in the bottom 1/3 of hits for the entire team last year if I’m not mistaken.
Couple that, however, with his overall UN-willingness to be physical, generally speaking, and you’ve got nothing but a proven pussy! I say it all the time.


Throw in his media-touted, TOI statistics, and make it, hits / per minutes played, well.... honestly, my friend you don’t want to go there! It’s laughable! Occupying near the basement of the team , and nowhere in the realm of SOLID!!


5) Blocked shots:


This one... WE AGREE!👍 Totally SOLID!!
Fewer, so far, this year, but probably his BEST defensive strongpoint!
However, one small bird turd of a point on this one. Most of Carlson‘s blocked shots are due to his stick blockage, as opposed to body shots. In this case, good for him, because he can be effective at it without using his body!
Firmly in the SOLID category here!!


6) And finally, “Caps are fortunate to have him”!


Truer words have never been said 4Caps, AND, as I’ve also posted, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you!!👍👍😁😁
We simply differ on how we come to that conclusion.


He’s an offensive production MACHINE! (That’s why), IMO.


NOT A SOLID DEFENSEMAN!


Radco Gudas is a SOLID defenseman!  And yes, the caps are fortunate to have him too.


I Agree to disagree, my friend! The REASONS why The Caps are fortunate to have John Carlson, are an extremely small matter in the greater scheme of all things Capitals!


We are both glad that we have John Carlson on our team! Even more awesome is just how damn good this capitals team is becoming!. I mean, WOW!  It’s pretty scary, buddy! And I like it!


Rush















Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

Offline PUCKNRUSH

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #68 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 08:58:24 PM Eastern »
Let me add that I just saw all the debating post about John Carlson and the Norris trophy, while my slow hands were typing my lengthy response to 4CAPS’s post.


In my opinion, it IS fair to say that Johnny Q, at least at this point, is the most likely candidate for the Norris trophy. Mickstix is right In saying that the Norris trophy does go to the highest scoring defenseman!


Alta makes a great point that they’re ought to be two different defenseman trophies. Hell, I’d go with that.


Tough to argue, in my book though that Carlsen is the best defensive defenseman on our team. I’ll give you Gudas and Kempny for starters.  Very responsible DEFENSEMEN!


John Carlson is an overwhelming, offensive production nightmare for any of our opponents, Period!
It is also the MAJOR reason he is such a value to our team, Period! Let’s not kid ourselves folks


Rush
Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

Offline richkrt99

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #69 on: Thursday December 05, 2019, 11:50:44 PM Eastern »
Let me suggest this to our conversation about the best all around player at his position....(which is what the Norris is awarded for)
If we put forth that Johnny Q Norris Carlson is the leading candidate for the Norris trophy because of his offensive abilities (when the trophy is supposed to go to the all around best defenseman at the position....
Then I suggest by that standard that Alex Ovechkin is the best all-around forward in the league. He is by far the most prolific and successful goal scorer on the planet in the last two decades. He is a fantastic goal scorer AND is in the top 5 or so in Hits in the league since he’s been in the NHL.
I love having him on my team and he has been at times the MVP of the team and the league
BUT...(everyone I know has a really big but) I don’t know anyone who knows hockey well that would say Ovie is the best overall player at his position in the entire league and award him that trophy.
Ovi is great but he is not the best overall player at his position.


Again I am not knocking Carlson or disagreeing that he is a great player, I am saying his offensive prowess does not make him a great (much less the best) defensman in the league.


Jesus Rush, I thought I was a blabber-thumbs  ;D
FFS - HIT HIM!!!
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Offline PUCKNRUSH

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #70 on: Friday December 06, 2019, 04:00:47 AM Eastern »
Let me suggest this to our conversation about the best all around player at his position....(which is what the Norris is awarded for)
If we put forth that Johnny Q Norris Carlson is the leading candidate for the Norris trophy because of his offensive abilities (when the trophy is supposed to go to the all around best defenseman at the position....
Then I suggest by that standard that Alex Ovechkin is the best all-around forward in the league. He is by far the most prolific and successful goal scorer on the planet in the last two decades. He is a fantastic goal scorer AND is in the top 5 or so in Hits in the league since he’s been in the NHL.
I love having him on my team and he has been at times the MVP of the team and the league
BUT...(everyone I know has a really big but) I don’t know anyone who knows hockey well that would say Ovie is the best overall player at his position in the entire league and award him that trophy.
Ovi is great but he is not the best overall player at his position.


Again I am not knocking Carlson or disagreeing that he is a great player, I am saying his offensive prowess does not make him a great (much less the best) defensman in the league.


Jesus Rush, I thought I was a blabber-thumbs  ;D


Hey Rich!
Had to frickin rise early this AM.  I’m part time at a local golf course, and they want me in at 5 AM this morning!  (Sucks)


You may be able to lay claim to being the more prolific of us two, “long-winded”, members. You’re on the board a little more often than I am!👍😁
 But I think I get the award for the more annoying lengthy posts! 😂🤣😂😂
Hell, sometimes when reviewing my own posts,  before throwing it to the board,  I’ll be like “is this the freaking post I wrote? “ “ oh yeah, yeah it IS,....Man I can be one over-spoken SOB!” 😆


 And while I’m making my coffee this morning, let me make a few corrections to that post!


 I believe YOU were the one Rich, that suggested there be two Norris type trophies! (Great idea).
 And good ol’ Mickstix,  did NOT say that the Norris trophy goes to the highest scoring defenseman.  I think he meant that the Norris trophy, in recent history, has been awarded to offensive defensemen!
Sorry guys for the misquote!


And 4Caps, Rich is right. I definitely could have condensed my response down a bit!
(A little lighter on the exaggerations, and small sarcasms, for starters)!
I’ve shared with you before, 4Caps, that yours is the higher mentality, when it comes to accepting, and rolling with the changes in today’s NHL hockey.  I’ve been much slower to come around,  and admittedly it gets in the way of some of my peace about it!


 In my book, you’re one of the most appreciated members here!👍👍


 Got to get on the road this morning!


Rush



Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

Offline 4 Caps

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #71 on: Friday December 06, 2019, 12:58:33 PM Eastern »
Rush we will have to agree to disagree as to Carlson’s defensive abilities, what is important is that we agree that the Caps are fortunate to have him on our team. 


What I really want to know is why a golf course needs you there at 5:00 a.m. what do you do at that time of day. 

Offline PUCKNRUSH

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #72 on: Friday December 06, 2019, 01:23:35 PM Eastern »
Rush we will have to agree to disagree as to Carlson’s defensive abilities, what is important is that we agree that the Caps are fortunate to have him on our team. 


What I really want to know is why a golf course needs you there at 5:00 a.m. what do you do at that time of day.


I’m a starter one day a week, every Friday. On a day with higher morning teetimes like this morning because of the temperatures were going to be above 50, we have to get 80 to 90 golf carts out on the line, Set up the driving range, and get the water jugs out and certain holes. Then I’ve got to be on the first tee checking off guys by 7 AM.
It’s actually a great retirement job for me, and I get free golf privileges at five of the courses in the area in the Rasberry Golf system.


You’re right about the Carlsen thing, buddy. The important thing is he’s a valuable for the team and our team is doing awesome


Rush
Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

Offline 4 Caps

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #73 on: Friday December 06, 2019, 04:00:08 PM Eastern »

I’m a starter one day a week, every Friday. On a day with higher morning teetimes like this morning because of the temperatures were going to be above 50, we have to get 80 to 90 golf carts out on the line, Set up the driving range, and get the water jugs out and certain holes. Then I’ve got to be on the first tee checking off guys by 7 AM.
It’s actually a great retirement job for me, and I get free golf privileges at five of the courses in the area in the Rasberry Golf system.


You’re right about the Carlsen thing, buddy. The important thing is he’s a valuable for the team and our team is doing awesome


Rush
I would never have imagined that there are that many dedicated golfers in this area whowould be teeing off at 7:00 a.m. in December.  While the temperature may reach 50 this afternoon it sure wasn’t that this morning.   I am impressed.  I can understand why you would need to be there at 5:00 in the morning during the summer but not in the winter.  The sun doesn’t even rise until after 7:00 a.m.   

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #74 on: Friday December 06, 2019, 11:37:27 PM Eastern »
I would never have imagined that there are that many dedicated golfers in this area whowould be teeing off at 7:00 a.m. in December.  While the temperature may reach 50 this afternoon it sure wasn’t that this morning.   I am impressed.  I can understand why you would need to be there at 5:00 in the morning during the summer but not in the winter.  The sun doesn’t even rise until after 7:00 a.m.


I get your point!
 From about mid November until the end of December, we have those on and off days where it can go from all or nothing as far as Golf is concerned!


 I, personally will play at 45° outside, if it’s not windy. And I’m not a diehard!  I am at a semi private course, where we have quite a reliable number of old-timers that get together every morning, want their carts out there, and would prefer to be able to tee off at sunrise.


 As of right now, the course doesn’t permit golf before 7 AM. The sun comes up prior to that, and we actually get complaints from our members who want to tee off at 6:30 or 645, and don’t mind the frustration of having to find their golf ball in partial light!


Us old timer/retirees get paid just above minimum-wage, and are really only there because of the golf privileges.  The course knows this, and bases their decision on whether they need a starter on, if there are more than 50 golfers on the tee sheet before 12 noon!
 This threshold, varies among golf courses, but during the primetime months of golf, it’s never a question.


 Fridays seem to be a more popular day, than the other weekdays, for those who feel they want to make a teetime at the end of the week!  If the weather is marginal!


 Although we had 80 to 90 on the tee sheet for today, about 1/3 of those canceled, and truth be told I really didn’t even have to go in!
And I would have preferred not to, but in this special time, in the beginning of the off-season,  management knows that us part timers, come quite cheap,  at minimum wage . It is nothing for them to ask us to show up anyway, for a few hours in the morning!


 My only solace, besides twiddling my thumbs with boredom today, is that I get all the free coffee I can handle, and a couple of breakfast sandwiches on the house!


 Obviously it pays off later, when golf season begins again next March.
 Once January starts, I probably won’t be called in ever, except for a weather anomaly, until mid March!  Then, of course, I make sure I get my free golf in! LOL


Rush



Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

Offline PUCKNRUSH

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #75 on: Friday December 06, 2019, 11:39:31 PM Eastern »
 And by the way 4CAPS,  if you ever wanted to get out on one of the raspberry system courses just let me know, via private message or whatever, and I can work it out for you!


Rush
Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

Offline 4 Caps

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #76 on: Saturday December 07, 2019, 12:01:20 AM Eastern »
And by the way 4CAPS,  if you ever wanted to get out on one of the raspberry system courses just let me know, via private message or whatever, and I can work it out for you!


Rush
Rush thanks for the offer, I appreciate it but I am not really much of a golfer.  About the only time I play is when we go on vacation in Minnesota.  Just curious, what are some of the courses in the rasberry system.  I am only familiar with some of the courses in Fairfax county. 

Offline PUCKNRUSH

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #77 on: Saturday December 07, 2019, 01:10:50 AM Eastern »
Rush thanks for the offer, I appreciate it but I am not really much of a golfer.  About the only time I play is when we go on vacation in Minnesota.  Just curious, what are some of the courses in the rasberry system.  I am only familiar with some of the courses in Fairfax county.


The Raspberry Group includes, Raspberry Falls in Leesburg/Ashburn, Bull Run in Haymarket, VA Golf Academy in Clifton, Old Hickory in Woodbridge, Augustine in Stafford, and other affiliates in Gettysburg, PA, and Bowling Green VA.


 I will frequent three or four of the above when spring and summer come around.


Rush



Always hopeful, yet discontent -
He knows CHANGES aren’t permanent -
              BUT CHANGE IS!!!

RUSH - from “Tom Sawyer”

Offline KitFisto

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #78 on: Sunday December 08, 2019, 10:28:44 PM Eastern »
The dislike for Carlson on this forum is ridiculous. People here loved to hate on this guy and now they are begrudgingly giving him some credit white still looking for ways to rip on him. This group has some of the most negative people I’ve ever seen. I barely come here anymore (not that anyone cares), but I pop back in and while the team is off to the best start in their history and Carlson is having an amazing season I see some people still finding ways to be negative.......amazing.

Online alta

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Re: G30 Capitals @ Kings 10:00pm Wed Dec 4, 2019 NBCSWA, ESPN+, SN, FS-W
« Reply #79 on: Monday December 09, 2019, 02:12:50 AM Eastern »
what's amazing is how a question of whether or not he's a Norris candidate turns into a discussion of hate for the guy in some peoples eyes  ::)
Knowledge is knowing that the Tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is knowing that you shouldn't include it in a Fruit Salad; Philosophy is wondering if a Bloody Mary counts as smoothie

"Oh bother" said Poo, as he chambered another round