GDT#80 Capitals @ Panthers 7:00pm Mon Apr 1, 2019 NBCSWA, TVAS, FS-F

[Surreylily]

A challenge febie.or a no more no less bbles.

[Surreylily]

Bugger.   

[Surreylily]

I hope in some way

[Surreylily]

 

[Surreylily]

Build a raft people.  build  raft

[Mickstix]

 

[richkrt99]

Head coaches and star players always get more credit for wins and more blame for losses than they deserve.  Hockey is probably the most TEAM win sport there is, so this is especially true.
That being said, the Caps have been the best team in the Metro the last four years.  Congrats and kudos to everyone involved.



Trotz is a great coach in the right atmosphere, but he sucked ass for us in the playoffs the previous 2 years (prior to the cup) and the previous 17 years of his career.  IMO he cost us NOT A CUP, but a viable shot at it the previous two seasons.


IMO it's a real stretch (okay total fantasy) to say he was held back by management the prior two years (as well as the prior 17 or so?) until his job was gone and then just said, "fuck it...I'm doing it my way" and went on to Finally win a Cup.  If that's the case, then he was a spineless Head Coach for 20 years....Meh, not buying.


DC, we know what type of hockey you prefer (as do I), but most of that is gone.  I still love the game and the Caps.  I don't think Reirdon has what it takes to win a Cup, but I don't think Trotz really did either.  I agree with KAZ that Trotz stifled our players rather than allowing them to blossom.  Some of both is needed and surely what a great coach does.  I'm not touting Reirdon as a great coach.  I'd say Trotz is better and I applauded his hiring.  He did benefit the Caps, but also eventually hindered them.


I don't have the resources to go back and fact check, but I recall YOU DC saying Trotz was simply out-coached and outclassed in the previous playoff series losses against the HENS.  Now you think Trotz is great and it was all GMBM's and Monumental's fault?  We know don't like GMBM, but NOBODY is totally at fault for anything.  And it is the coaches job to use the resources he has been giving to win.


I think GMBM has done a marvelous job overall.  He has managed to provide enough tools to be ultimately successful.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  Yes he has made mistakes.  Yes he has overpaid on some (many) contracts.  But some of that is necessary to get the players you need to win.  Some of it is a risk, and you have to take those risks to win.  Some risks blow up in your face.  Shattenkirk was a bust, but a risk worth taking at the time.  Kempney was a low level risk signing, but a good acquisition.  Jensen deal is a steal.  The Orpik salary dumb/trade, buyback for $1mil was brilliant.  Maybe just luck there, but trading Orpik's contract HAD to be done.  We got lucky and got him back on the cheap. (or maybe someone knew it all along).  Yes, he let Beagle walk, but No way is Beagle worth 3 million to THIS TEAM.  We simply could not afford that for what is basically a career 4th liner.  I love Beags and would love to have him and his skill set, but if you don't pay 2019 Cadillac prices for a 2010 F150 do you? We traded/let walk away Brooks Laich, and Karl Alzner.  I loved both of those guys, but neither would have helped the Caps past their tenure here.




We would all like to see better trades and better deals and better players (yes, we need a dominant D man....or 2....or..), but EVERY team out there is after the same thing, and it all has to be managed under the Cap.  I think GMBM has done that extremely well in his tenure, especially from where he started.  We were salary cap-strung long before GMBM was at the helm.


DC, I'm pretty much on the same side of most of your arguments, but not this yo-yo on Trotz (If my recall from years past is actually correct, and I'm open to the possibility it is not).  I disagree on your hatred for GMBM as well.  It is not GMBM's fault the league is changing to "women's rules" hockey.  It IS his fault if he does not adjust to it.


Also, not sure why you have to berate KAZ.  I though most of what he had to say was insightful and well put together.  Maybe you think he is a troll cause he's a noob?  Still no reason to attack him.  That's not very welcoming to new fans/members.


I don't think the Caps have what it takes to win a Cup this year.  New coach (maybe he will be great someday, maybe not, but it IS his first year), Aging D and weak on D, injured D.  Declining PP, horrible PK.  Horrible faceoff.  All these things add up to small critical losses at important times.  THIS team cannot afford the sum of all these little things.  I don't see the Caps getting by Tampa IF we make it that far.  (I didn't think we'd get by Tampa last year either  )


I am still going to watch though.  I am going to enjoy the battle (I hope).  I am going to root for my team.  I am going to throw stuff at the TV at times, and hopefully in the end, I will rejoice like I have never (okay, once) before.


GO CAPS






 

[richkrt99]

Build a raft people.  build  raft

someone explain please?

[Kaz]

Thanks, Rich.  I don't mean to harp on Trotz but that's what it looks like when you're responding to someone raving about him... you kinda hafta focus on the negatives.


Trotz was exactly what we needed when he got here.  We needed his experience, discipline, and systems-driven hockey.  He has a philosophy that you can install into any team and make it operate properly almost immediately.  His approach is very keen on accountability; that there's a Right Way To Play.  And he's right.  His style is a blueprint for getting any hockey team to play effectively and responsibly, so it's a perfect fit for a blue collar, no-frills organization like the Isles are now and the Preds were during his tenure.


But the thing those teams have in common is Zero Superstars.  The Preds had brief flirtations with late-model versions of Forsberg, Kariya, and Feds, but for the most part it was 15 years of zero elite talent, just like today's Isles without Tavares.  If you have that kind of team, Trotz is 100% your guy.  He's perfect for that.


The problem here is that we needed the philosophy and discipline desperately, but that's all.  Once we bought in, Trotz was in over his head.  We have several skill players that just don't fit the Play The Right Way mold.  They need some freedom to be creative and take chances.  We had a number of extraordinary talents crammed into ordinary containers.  So Wilson's development stagnated, Burakovsky never found his confidence because he spent 4 straight years in Trotz's doghouse, Vrana spent an extra year on the farm unnecessarily because Trotz would rather have the blue collar vet, Schmidt got marginalized and tossed aside because Trotz wouldn't trust youth (or Reirden), Connolly was relegated to garbage minutes, Kuzy disappeared for 6 months including an entire playoff year while Trotz tried to stifle every creative impulse he had, and on and on and on.


Then last year -- and we know this because of the end-of-year expose the Post did -- management cracked down, nearly fired Trotz twice, and ultimately forced him to cede more control to his assistants.  And this is the year that the regular season was a roller coaster while we gave time to kids that never would have gotten the chances they did otherwise.


Some things didn't work out.  Holtby's game struggled while we tried D pairs that didn't pan out.  Bowey was a bust but got 50+ games to try, Djoos was a patchwork replacement, Burakovsky's development seemed to have stalled irreparably.  But that's the point of the regular season in today's NHL.  You have 82 games to evaluate everything you have so you can make informed adjustments.


So in past years with Trotz completely in control, kids got no chance or development, we spent no time tinkering with chemistry or trying to evolve our systems, and thus our GM had to take blind shots at making improvements.  So you end up with midseason acquisitions like Clencross and Gleason; guys that just add depth but do nothing to address weaknesses.  This is why during those years MacLellan's best moves were in the offseason where he could exercise more control.  And he had to take big swings because he knew those were his best chances to make real change.


So during the season you get low-rent trades, but in the offseason you get Orpik, Oshie, Niskanen, Williams, Connolly, and Eller.  And GMBM wasn't shy about letting blue collar guys go and dealing away value picks to make those changes.  It was him subtracting big pieces of Trotz's on-ice philosophy and replacing them with guys that bring more risk and rambunctiousness.  He replaced reliable pieces with difference-makers.  So out with Laich, Ward, Brouwer, Alzner, and in with riskier impact guys. 


We got Orpik and Niskanen because those were Reirden's guys and they were very solid players.  Yes, we paid a lot, but a good GM knows he can deal with that when the time comes.  When Orpik's contract became a real issue, he dealt with it.  He inherited a dog contract with Laich and he dealt with it.  The Oshie trade was a masterstroke, and the Oshie contract, if you really look at how it's structured, gets more tradable as it goes.  The cap hit is what it is, but the actual money was front-loaded.  So right around the time that we'll start to worry about his age and durability, he'll be a key deadline trade target for a team with some cap space looking to add the hundred things he does well.


Most of MaLellan's moves look like that.  The Orlov deal might be a little rough, but it was the same type of dice roll you make when you're trying to save money by going long.  So maybe Orlov ended up a little overpaid, but we absolutely saved a gigantic fortune on Kuzy.  We got him at max term for $7.8 and a year later he was easily worth 10+.  And GMBM just did the same thing with Wilson.  It looked like a bit of an overpayment at first, but now Wilson has blown up and it looks like we'll save maybe as much as 10 million over the lifetime of that deal.  He's likely about to do the same with Vrana.


But last year GMBM had the added benefit of a coaching staff using the regular season to properly evaluate talent.  So where before it was "We need a depth defenseman" and we get a ho-hum Gleason or "We need more from our bottom 6" and we get a ho-hum Clencross, now our needs were specific.  "Bowey isn't working out.  Djoos can cover, but we need a lefty to eat top-4 minutes with Carlson."  And we got exactly that -- Kempny (and Jerabek) -- specifically addressing a key weakness and solidifying our top 4 for years to come.


Same thing this year.  Lots of tinkering with chemistry all year, lots up ups and downs and streaky play.  But that's the point.  We arrived at the deadline knowing exactly what we needed.  "Bowey still isn't developing.  He's not a fit here.  We need a right-shot defenseman for the long haul because we have no righties on the farm."  And GMBM goes out not only gets the best RD available, but then locks him up for 4 years because he knows Niskanen's nearing the end of his deal.  Excellent move.


Our PK was atrocious, Burakovsky still wasn't clicking, we rotated the tires on our 4th line all year long and found it lacking.  So GMBM goes out and gets the exact right guy, immediately improves the PK, solves the revolving door on the 4th, and ends up improving our 3rd line to boot.


This is why you struggle.  It's why you give rookies lots of chances during the year and real time to work through issues to see if they can sort it out.  There is ZERO benefit to rocking the regular season anymore.  Presidents Trophies mean nothing, home ice only really lasts one series, and Holtby getting regular rest means way more than his share of a wins record.  All that shit means nothing.  Fully evaluate your team -- even if it costs you a few points in the standings -- make necessary changes, make the playoffs. THAT is when your A-game matters.  GMBM understands this.  Trotz didn't. 


Maybe he learned it last year.  I hope so, because I wish him well.  I think he's a great guy, a wonderful family man, and there's plenty of reasons that he's one of the winningest coaches ever.  That he won as many games as he did in Nashville given how little they spent on salary is bananas, truly amazing.  But he did NOT get us the Cup.  He contributed and added a lot to the foundation, but a lot of what finally made the difference happened in spite of him, not because of him.

[DC_1908]

Head coaches and star players always get more credit for wins and more blame for losses than they deserve.  Hockey is probably the most TEAM win sport there is, so this is especially true.
That being said, the Caps have been the best team in the Metro the last four years.  Congrats and kudos to everyone involved.



Trotz is a great coach in the right atmosphere, but he sucked ass for us in the playoffs the previous 2 years (prior to the cup) and the previous 17 years of his career.  IMO he cost us NOT A CUP, but a viable shot at it the previous two seasons.


IMO it's a real stretch (okay total fantasy) to say he was held back by management the prior two years (as well as the prior 17 or so?) until his job was gone and then just said, "fuck it...I'm doing it my way" and went on to Finally win a Cup.  If that's the case, then he was a spineless Head Coach for 20 years....Meh, not buying.


DC, we know what type of hockey you prefer (as do I), but most of that is gone.  I still love the game and the Caps.  I don't think Reirdon has what it takes to win a Cup, but I don't think Trotz really did either.  I agree with KAZ that Trotz stifled our players rather than allowing them to blossom.  Some of both is needed and surely what a great coach does.  I'm not touting Reirdon as a great coach.  I'd say Trotz is better and I applauded his hiring.  He did benefit the Caps, but also eventually hindered them.


I don't have the resources to go back and fact check, but I recall YOU DC saying Trotz was simply out-coached and outclassed in the previous playoff series losses against the HENS.  Now you think Trotz is great and it was all GMBM's and Monumental's fault?  We know don't like GMBM, but NOBODY is totally at fault for anything.  And it is the coaches job to use the resources he has been giving to win.


I think GMBM has done a marvelous job overall.  He has managed to provide enough tools to be ultimately successful.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  Yes he has made mistakes.  Yes he has overpaid on some (many) contracts.  But some of that is necessary to get the players you need to win.  Some of it is a risk, and you have to take those risks to win.  Some risks blow up in your face.  Shattenkirk was a bust, but a risk worth taking at the time.  Kempney was a low level risk signing, but a good acquisition.  Jensen deal is a steal.  The Orpik salary dumb/trade, buyback for $1mil was brilliant.  Maybe just luck there, but trading Orpik's contract HAD to be done.  We got lucky and got him back on the cheap. (or maybe someone knew it all along).  Yes, he let Beagle walk, but No way is Beagle worth 3 million to THIS TEAM.  We simply could not afford that for what is basically a career 4th liner.  I love Beags and would love to have him and his skill set, but if you don't pay 2019 Cadillac prices for a 2010 F150 do you? We traded/let walk away Brooks Laich, and Karl Alzner.  I loved both of those guys, but neither would have helped the Caps past their tenure here.




We would all like to see better trades and better deals and better players (yes, we need a dominant D man....or 2....or..), but EVERY team out there is after the same thing, and it all has to be managed under the Cap.  I think GMBM has done that extremely well in his tenure, especially from where he started.  We were salary cap-strung long before GMBM was at the helm.


DC, I'm pretty much on the same side of most of your arguments, but not this yo-yo on Trotz (If my recall from years past is actually correct, and I'm open to the possibility it is not).  I disagree on your hatred for GMBM as well.  It is not GMBM's fault the league is changing to "women's rules" hockey.  It IS his fault if he does not adjust to it.


Also, not sure why you have to berate KAZ.  I though most of what he had to say was insightful and well put together.  Maybe you think he is a troll cause he's a noob?  Still no reason to attack him.  That's not very welcoming to new fans/members.


I don't think the Caps have what it takes to win a Cup this year.  New coach (maybe he will be great someday, maybe not, but it IS his first year), Aging D and weak on D, injured D.  Declining PP, horrible PK.  Horrible faceoff.  All these things add up to small critical losses at important times.  THIS team cannot afford the sum of all these little things.  I don't see the Caps getting by Tampa IF we make it that far.  (I didn't think we'd get by Tampa last year either  )


I am still going to watch though.  I am going to enjoy the battle (I hope).  I am going to root for my team.  I am going to throw stuff at the TV at times, and hopefully in the end, I will rejoice like I have never (okay, once) before.


GO CAPS

Yes, I did criticize and question Trotzs lack of adjustments and stubbornness the previous  two years of the playoffs, then it became more and more clear.


This should be a whole other post, but yes:  there is enough dara to show that Trotz wasn’t able to coach his game until he knew wasn’t coming back, and not the be was arrogant, or some incompetent dinosaur who couldn’t coach the greatest team ever assembled like others implied.

[DC_1908]

Thanks, Rich.  I don't mean to harp on Trotz but that's what it looks like when you're responding to someone raving about him... you kinda hafta focus on the negatives.


Trotz was exactly what we needed when he got here.  We needed his experience, discipline, and systems-driven hockey.  He has a philosophy that you can install into any team and make it operate properly almost immediately.  His approach is very keen on accountability; that there's a Right Way To Play.  And he's right.  His style is a blueprint for getting any hockey team to play effectively and responsibly, so it's a perfect fit for a blue collar, no-frills organization like the Isles are now and the Preds were during his tenure.


But the thing those teams have in common is Zero Superstars.  The Preds had brief flirtations with late-model versions of Forsberg, Kariya, and Feds, but for the most part it was 15 years of zero elite talent, just like today's Isles without Tavares.  If you have that kind of team, Trotz is 100% your guy.  He's perfect for that.


The problem here is that we needed the philosophy and discipline desperately, but that's all.  Once we bought in, Trotz was in over his head.  We have several skill players that just don't fit the Play The Right Way mold.  They need some freedom to be creative and take chances.  We had a number of extraordinary talents crammed into ordinary containers.  So Wilson's development stagnated, Burakovsky never found his confidence because he spent 4 straight years in Trotz's doghouse, Vrana spent an extra year on the farm unnecessarily because Trotz would rather have the blue collar vet, Schmidt got marginalized and tossed aside because Trotz wouldn't trust youth (or Reirden), Connolly was relegated to garbage minutes, Kuzy disappeared for 6 months including an entire playoff year while Trotz tried to stifle every creative impulse he had, and on and on and on.


Then last year -- and we know this because of the end-of-year expose the Post did -- management cracked down, nearly fired Trotz twice, and ultimately forced him to cede more control to his assistants.  And this is the year that the regular season was a roller coaster while we gave time to kids that never would have gotten the chances they did otherwise.


Some things didn't work out.  Holtby's game struggled while we tried D pairs that didn't pan out.  Bowey was a bust but got 50+ games to try, Djoos was a patchwork replacement, Burakovsky's development seemed to have stalled irreparably.  But that's the point of the regular season in today's NHL.  You have 82 games to evaluate everything you have so you can make informed adjustments.


So in past years with Trotz completely in control, kids got no chance or development, we spent no time tinkering with chemistry or trying to evolve our systems, and thus our GM had to take blind shots at making improvements.  So you end up with midseason acquisitions like Clencross and Gleason; guys that just add depth but do nothing to address weaknesses.  This is why during those years MacLellan's best moves were in the offseason where he could exercise more control.  And he had to take big swings because he knew those were his best chances to make real change.


So during the season you get low-rent trades, but in the offseason you get Orpik, Oshie, Niskanen, Williams, Connolly, and Eller.  And GMBM wasn't shy about letting blue collar guys go and dealing away value picks to make those changes.  It was him subtracting big pieces of Trotz's on-ice philosophy and replacing them with guys that bring more risk and rambunctiousness.  He replaced reliable pieces with difference-makers.  So out with Laich, Ward, Brouwer, Alzner, and in with riskier impact guys. 


We got Orpik and Niskanen because those were Reirden's guys and they were very solid players.  Yes, we paid a lot, but a good GM knows he can deal with that when the time comes.  When Orpik's contract became a real issue, he dealt with it.  He inherited a dog contract with Laich and he dealt with it.  The Oshie trade was a masterstroke, and the Oshie contract, if you really look at how it's structured, gets more tradable as it goes.  The cap hit is what it is, but the actual money was front-loaded.  So right around the time that we'll start to worry about his age and durability, he'll be a key deadline trade target for a team with some cap space looking to add the hundred things he does well.


Most of MaLellan's moves look like that.  The Orlov deal might be a little rough, but it was the same type of dice roll you make when you're trying to save money by going long.  So maybe Orlov ended up a little overpaid, but we absolutely saved a gigantic fortune on Kuzy.  We got him at max term for $7.8 and a year later he was easily worth 10+.  And GMBM just did the same thing with Wilson.  It looked like a bit of an overpayment at first, but now Wilson has blown up and it looks like we'll save maybe as much as 10 million over the lifetime of that deal.  He's likely about to do the same with Vrana.


But last year GMBM had the added benefit of a coaching staff using the regular season to properly evaluate talent.  So where before it was "We need a depth defenseman" and we get a ho-hum Gleason or "We need more from our bottom 6" and we get a ho-hum Clencross, now our needs were specific.  "Bowey isn't working out.  Djoos can cover, but we need a lefty to eat top-4 minutes with Carlson."  And we got exactly that -- Kempny (and Jerabek) -- specifically addressing a key weakness and solidifying our top 4 for years to come.


Same thing this year.  Lots of tinkering with chemistry all year, lots up ups and downs and streaky play.  But that's the point.  We arrived at the deadline knowing exactly what we needed.  "Bowey still isn't developing.  He's not a fit here.  We need a right-shot defenseman for the long haul because we have no righties on the farm."  And GMBM goes out not only gets the best RD available, but then locks him up for 4 years because he knows Niskanen's nearing the end of his deal.  Excellent move.


Our PK was atrocious, Burakovsky still wasn't clicking, we rotated the tires on our 4th line all year long and found it lacking.  So GMBM goes out and gets the exact right guy, immediately improves the PK, solves the revolving door on the 4th, and ends up improving our 3rd line to boot.


This is why you struggle.  It's why you give rookies lots of chances during the year and real time to work through issues to see if they can sort it out.  There is ZERO benefit to rocking the regular season anymore.  Presidents Trophies mean nothing, home ice only really lasts one series, and Holtby getting regular rest means way more than his share of a wins record.  All that shit means nothing.  Fully evaluate your team -- even if it costs you a few points in the standings -- make necessary changes, make the playoffs. THAT is when your A-game matters.  GMBM understands this.  Trotz didn't. 


Maybe he learned it last year.  I hope so, because I wish him well.  I think he's a great guy, a wonderful family man, and there's plenty of reasons that he's one of the winningest coaches ever.  That he won as many games as he did in Nashville given how little they spent on salary is bananas, truly amazing.  But he did NOT get us the Cup.  He contributed and added a lot to the foundation, but a lot of what finally made the difference happened in spite of him, not because of him.

Fair enough, but I see where we disagree


We agree that Trotz wasn’t a fit.  The issue is, Monumental just wanted him to be the first long time NHL coach in the Ovie era, including, as you said, providing discipline to the existing team.  During this time, they could build the team, be a top team and groom the coach they wanted.


Based on recent and past history with sports and even business, I fundamentally disagree with this design, strategy, and how Monumental executed it.

I see where youre coming from and we expand on this more later, but I’ll end with for whatever reasons, both Trotz did more adjusting and implemented more changes than previous years, and he got the majority of the players execute them with minimal mistakes,  both of which didn’t happen before

[Kaz]

DC_1908: " there is enough data to show that Trotz wasn’t able to coach his game until he knew wasn’t coming back"

There is zero data that shows that, and an entire Washington Post expose that entirely refutes it.  Trotz was in the driver's seat UNTIL his last year.  The changes you saw were NOT him finally getting to coach his game.  "His game" in his first few years was identical to "his game" as a head coach for his entire run in Nashville.  And he was dogged by the same issues -- not developing young talent, not adjusting his systems to suit the strengths of his team, doghousing players that don't buy in.  His way or the highway.

And like I said in my last post, I respect that about him.  That was the right path with Nashville because they were in the low end of spending, built entirely through the draft, and liked it that way.  When you're lean on talent, Trotz's systems work wonders.

What actually happened is the exact opposite of what you said.  He had his way until last year.  He was forced to give more control over to his assistants, Reirden especially, and that's why the philosophy changed so drastically and suddenly last year.  Trotz was mostly along for the ride.  It seems clear he had the respect of his players, but their comments after his departure that they were fine with him leaving.  They'd outgrown him.

Moving to Reirden?  Meh.  He's suffering from Substitute Teacher Syndrome.  Trotz isn't a player's coach; he's a coach that demands respect and accountability.  His assistants are the player-friendly ones.  So Reirden took the head job as a well-liked, friendly figure, and a good portion of that discipline and accountability seemed to leave town with Trotz.

Kuznetsov is the perfect example of this.  He absolutely struggled under Trotz because Kuzy is an artist and Trotz wants soldiers.  He did everything he could to curtail Kuzy's creativity, and Kuzy needed a dose of that.  You saw it in the playoffs last year.  He played a 200-foot game, which is very unlike him.  Trotz rubbed off.  Now Trotz leaves town, Reirden The Nice Guy lets Kuzy's creativity run amok, his game has suffered, and no one seems to be holding his feet to the fire.  He's a young guy that still needs guidance and a firm hand.  Stephenson's game went right in the shitter when Trotz left, too.  He's a guy that benefited greatly from the work ethic approach and seems lost without someone revving his motor.  Does DSP come to camp out of shape and dog it all year if Trotz is coach?  It's arguable, but there's no question Trotz wouldn't have given him the wide berth and long leash Reirden did in response.

However, the hands-off, give-them-some-freedom approach has paid huge dividends with Wilson, Carlson, Connolly, Vrana...  Hell, even Burakovsky, results aside, appears to be playing with a lot more confidence and identity lately.  He might find another gear yet now that Trotz's foot is off his throat.  The mature guys like Ovi and Oshie seem to have maintained the elements Trotz brought to their game and haven't relapsed into their old bad habits.

Sorry, DC, but you're wrong on this one.  I don't think Trotz being relieved of command to a degree last year made Reirden our savior.  Now that we've seen the actual effects of Reirden, it seems obvious to me in retrospect that it was more management dictating a freer approach and more control over the lineup.  As a result, I think the players took over for the most part.  Trotz still steered the ship and the assistants definitely got more say than usual, but the change on the ice in the postseason last year was quality of play and individuals stepping up at key moments.  That's the players. 

Trotz made almost zero impact changes to our lines and, as usual, no tweaks to the system.  His biggest move was un-fucking his decision to bench Holtby.  Holtby is a steady, stable, solid guy.  He isn't driven enough by anger and emotion to be "inspired" by a benching.  That narrative was total bullshit.  Holtby should have been in goal from the jump.

The majorly different looks we showed that may have shifted our opponents' ability to match up were things totally beyond Trotz's control -- Backstrom's injury and Wilson's suspension.  Our guys appeared to play up for Willy in "Let's win one for The Gipper" fashion.  That was big.  And Backstrom being out required zero shrewd moves, just next man up, so Trotz gets no credit there.  Aside from those two things, he made no meaningful lineup adjustments.  It could be argued he did the opposite with Vrana, who stepped into top-line duties in a pinch and had a monster game, then Trotz -- given a couple days to make a considered choice -- didn't reward Vrana, but rather immediately replaced him with someone more to his liking.  Didn't end up being a big deal, but showed Trotz's true stripes.

So let me be clear:  In my mind, Trotz gets a lot of credit for the hard lessons, discipline, and accountability he instilled in those guys in years past.  The players stepped up and won that Cup, and I think they have Trotz to thank for giving them the maturity and grit to pull that off.  But his actual contributions during the Cup run were minimal.  He was mostly along for the ride, in my opinion.

DC_1908: "The issue is, Monumental just wanted him to be the first long time NHL coach in the Ovie era, including, as you said, providing discipline to the existing team.  During this time, they could build the team, be a top team and groom the coach they wanted."

Also not true.  Reirden was hired after Trotz, likely with at least Trotz's input or okay.  They wanted Trotz to lead the way and gave him all the room in the world until last year.  He and MacLellan never seemed to be on the same page, which is made clear by how GMBM shopped for players in those first few years -- zero impact during the season when Trotz controlled the roster and lineup, major impact in the offseason when Trotz could exert less control, then a total change last year when Trotz had to cede control to others.

The struggle between GM and coach is obvious now, in retrospect.  Those patterns are really easy to see now.

And I'm no MacLellan apologist.  I could go on forever (obviously) about how badly be botched the expansion draft.  That still irks me big time.  But he was clearly handcuffed when the season was on for those first few years.  The difference is night and day and the reasons for that are now apparent.

[Kaz]

Sorry about the text size there.  No idea what happened.  The text editor here is pretty terrible, and quotes appearing in ridiculously tiny text by default makes it hard to have a back-and-forth conversation.

[Surreylily]

Welcome Kaz.
Your posts have been very infomative and intelligent.
One major point though.
TROTZ WAS THE COACH THAT GOT US THE CUP, after 43 years of trying.  Criticise him all you want, but he's the man that got it done.
We have such a talent laden group of guys and have had for some years.  What we didn't have was A TEAM.  Dale Hunter started it a few years back, when he was seconded and agreed to fill in for a short time.  That fucking idiot (who shall not be named) (and I still can't watch any film with that bloke in it    ) just completely wrecked it!
Trotz taught our boys to be a team again.  To play as a team.  Instead of the fractured and segmented group that had been previously and for many years.  The "Klub Kettler"
If he did nothing else, he did that.  He levelled the field.  Everybody was equal.  Everybody ws as important.  Everybody had to put the effort in.  Not just talent.  Effort.
That Klub Kettler attitude has been so prevalent for so many years in that club, it's no mean feat for him to have overcome it.
Trotz is like a slightly suped-up version of Dale Hunter, no?
We have a history of debuting new Head Coaches.  They may go on to do great things, but their first and formative years with the Caps have never boded well.
For our superstars to go out and do what they do, there has to be a structure behind them, to allow them to do that.zy....
I didn't see the reports of Trotz job being on the line.  I'm one of those "soft Euro's" that DC bitches about.  You know, like Nicky and Kuzy, who are so useless.....   

[Kaz]

Thanks for the welcome, Surreylily.


I think I've been pretty clear on my feelings about Trotz.  I said most of what you said already.  He deserves credit for the foundation he fostered here.  He changed the culture, and that was crucial.  But it was also something we bought into 3 years ago.  From that point forward his style suffocated some of the greatest abilities and potential of several of our players, and his refusal to trust and develop young players was made very clear.


I don't want to repeat myself, so I'd just point you to the two series losses to the Penguins, especially the elimination games.  We got completely, entirely annihilated in those games.  Trotz's gameplan was OBVIOUSLY conservative.  He had us trying to eke out wins, playing perimeter hockey, FAR more concerned with trying to stop the Pens than trying to BE THE CAPITALS.  He eschewed EVERYTHING we do well in an effort to prevent the things the Pens do well, and he failed.


We were trying not to lose those games.  The Penguins were trying to kick the living shit out of us.  And that's why we got the living shit kicked out of us.  It was a conservative gameplan that made it SO clear that he doesn't trust anyone more than he trusts his system.  He handcuffed his players and gambled on the same suffocating style he's employing in NY right now, which is working because THAT team lacks the skill required to straight up go for it.


It's interesting that you bring up Hunter's coaching year here because it's a good example of what I'm talking about.  That team was poorly built, had huge injury issues during the stretch run, and didn't match up well with anyone.  So Hunter installed a bunker mentality, the same conservative, sacrifice, suffocating style we're talking about with Trotz.  And it was brilliant and appropriate BECAUSE our team was so flawed.  As a result, a team that really had no business in the playoffs at all ended up forcing 14 games from two of the best teams in the East and the two best goaltenders on the planet at that time.  It was great.


And it was similarly appropriate and effective when Trotz first got here because we had similar weaknesses and structural problems with the roster.  Trotz got the best from us then.


But playing that way when you have Ovi, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Oshie, Williams, Niskanen, Carlson, and Holtby all at the height of their powers -- complete rosters with no glaring weaknesses and NO reason to EVER play scared against ANYONE -- is chickenshit.  This is ice hockey.  I don't care how good you think the Pens are, when you have a roster as talented and complete as those two teams were, the ONLY gameplan you should EVER employ is, "Let's go out there, do what we do best, and fucking destroy them."


Instead it was, "OK, boys.  We're gonna shut them down and not let Crosby do this and watch out for Malkin and Letang's been getting too many looks and Kessel will kill us if we don't blah blah blah."  That's how you play when you don't have the tools to dictate play to the other team.  You play safe and try to steal wins.  But those two Caps teams were the best teams on the fucking planet that shouldn't have been deferring to anyone.  You make it 100% about maximizing what you do best, freeing everyone up to play their best game.  Yes, you need to be aware of the opposition and play them smartly, BUT YOU DO NOT LET THEM DICTATE YOUR GAMEPLAN.


You come out guns blazing with everything you have.  And if you lose playing that way and leave it all on the ice, no one will have any real reason to criticize you.  But we didn't do that.  He had us playing a perimeter, reactionary gameplan that made it clear that he was either scared of the Penguins or thought they were better than us.  We didn't even try to win, and got our asses handed to us both times.  It was humiliating, and our guys deserved better.


Last year -- go read the Post expose -- Trotz wasn't able to call those same shots.  His doghouse got cleared out by management, guys he'd been refusing to trust and give chances got in the lineup and exploded.  Kuzy was finally set free, Wison started getting the minutes he deserved, Vrana got taken out of mothballs, Ovi got different looks and linemates to get the most from him, the D was finally trusted to take more chances in transition.  We were far less predictable, far more explosive, far more dynamic.  Every effort was being made to get the absolute best from each player, instead of everyone being forced into a rigid, confining system that doesn't let them breathe. 


And as a result we went from being a solid team to a scary team.  We dictated the play, forced the opposition to play OUR game.  We took chances between the blues, stretched our offense out more, got off the perimeter and took control of the center of the ice, forcing lots of deflections and screens and rebounds -- the type of play that allows you the chances to get the lucky bounces that always seemed to elude us BECAUSE we were playing exclusively on the perimeter.  That style allows your skill guys to thrive AND your physical game to blossom -- more open ice hits, more chances to maximize your speed.


That was the difference, Lily.  Instead of trying not to lose we were actively trying to destroy our opposition.  Trotz still occasionally forced us to play safer, sometimes wisely but just as often unwisely, trying to sit on leads, shortening the bench unnecessarily, not trusting the kids at a few crucial times.  But the players weren't having it.  The sheer number of individual efforts that ended in goals for or prevented goals against was staggering.  We were playing so decisively that we were able to shake off and overcome some glaring mistakes and moments where the refs fucked us.


If you've followed Trotz's career over the years, you know that SO much of that is contrary to his style and philosophy.  The organization and players weren't having it last year, Trotz was forced to loosen the reins, and that allowed us to shine in ways we couldn't before.  The difference was night and day.  We went from playing chickenshit hockey versus the Pens with our full roster at 100% and getting our asses kicked to dominating play and kicking THEIR asses with two of our most important players unable to play.


I'm clearly not saying that Trotz did nothing.  But last year he was finally forced to let this team play the best hockey they can possibly play, and he stood back and let them do it.  And I'm sure he supported them in any way he could.


In the two years prior, Barry Trotz was the #1 reason we were eliminated from the playoffs.  Last year he was a small cog in the wheel that won it all.

[DC_1908]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣what the hell ever man!

It’s a very romantic notion to think the players just “overcame their demons”, dug in deep and played like the superstars we always knew they where”, and “We just needed to wait for our turn!”The emotional factor makes the feelings run deep to make it a piece of cake sell to those who are vaunerable to such a thing.

Come on dude, just saying I’m “wrong”, in a opinion piece diatribe that attempted to read like a Caps yearbook write up with the only support being the WaPost and opinions.  Really man, the Post writes the same articles every year, which is why you read it.  On top of that, in all of your ramblings you kept contradicting yourself over and over.  For example, how can Trotz not develop young players, nor did he do a significant amount to win the Cup, yet Kuzy and Bura “dug deep and played the way knew they could!”?

We all learned the “write a lot and grad-students will think you know what you’re saying so you won’t need to include any real data but it’ll look like you know what your talking about” in college too.  Of course this tactic is incredibly convenient for the writer to repeat thier opion reoeadly as the reader looses attention and only retains what’s being said over and over regardless of fact or data.

I know, it’s “cool”  to hate Trotz,  to think this is the greatest story ever, and if you cherry pick a few safe things to criticize, and throw in the occasional compliment, it makes you “look” like you know what youre talking about and “look” like youre not just a hero worshiping fan boy who can’t work a text editor.

[Kaz]

Odd to see the borderline illiterate guy that misspells every other word criticizing my intelligence.  Pots and kettles, dude.  You put a bunch of things in quotes that I never said, you completely mischaracterized, and clearly demonstrate your total lack of reading comprehension.  But I'm the dumb one.


And this is your same old move, bullying when you can't actually refute or intelligently discuss something.  Well sorry, but that shit doesn't impress me, tough guy.  I've often wondered why it is you've never realized how completely fucking stupid you sometimes sound on these forums.


I know this sport forwards and backwards, and having followed both of these forums with interest for the last few years I have no problem telling you that your grasp of this game -- at least when it comes to your ability to communicate it in writing -- is often woefully lacking, pretty routinely antiquated, and sometimes just plain moronic.  But that's okay because when people disagree with you you can just shout them down, accuse them of something insane, or attempt to make fun.


So explain it to me, sweetheart.  Give me your intelligent, factual take on why last year's coaching was so antithetical to every other season he's coached in the NHL.  Explain to me how both Post reporters with access are somehow completely wrong or outright liars, but YOU have all the answers.


You can't.  You just vomit your tirades on the forum and browbeat anyone who disagrees.  Laughably bad attempts at intimidation when your brain isn't up to the task.


So yeah, everyone else on the planet got it wrong.  It's DC_1908 -- the forum troll with the writing skills of a 6-year-old -- that everyone should be listening to.  Don't dare disagree or he'll throw another hissy fit...