Talk about Capitals hockey & more! > Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion
GDT#45 Capitals @ Hurricanes 2018-01-12 7:30pm EST NBCSPW
DC_1908:
Maaco has never said how great Carlson is a hitting, shot blocking, crease clearing, physical play, shot blocking, positioning, man on man coverage, breaking up odd man rushes, picking off passes because he knew where it was going, you know things a Dman should do.
But Maaco is typically right on what he praises Carlson for.
The thing we are missing is perspective. Carlson is an excellent near elite offensive defenseman/4th forward (a role that has become but a high risk circus novelty act after Paul Coffey all but invented it).
Personally, my anger at Carslon has dropped off once I stopped excepting him being anything more than a fourth forward, Including the things I mentioned above as they assuredly won’t happen.
So if the Norris is now given to the best “fourth forward”, sure give it Carlson. Then he can except it in a clown suit, because defense is not high on his preference, skill sets, assignments, and certainly not his achievements.
DC_1908:
90 -3. To their credit, it’s a 67% increase from yesterday
Maacoshark:
I honestly dont care for the new breed of dmen. Teams want at least 4 men involved in every rush. I like the dmen getting involved in the offensive zone making plays to keep the puck in as long as a forward is there to cover. Now you see dmen leaving the dzone early and leading the rush. Orlov does it all the time. Some of the old school type dmen are struggling with the way the game has changed. Guys like Weber, Seabrook, Orpik or even Alzner. Seabrook was a healthy scratch in one game last week.
I'm having a tough time making the adjustment too. The league is going to puck moving dmen that can skate. You are seeing smaller and less physical dmen now. In the past you would never see a player like Djoos.
As for Carlson being a Norris candidate. I think he should get some votes but I still think atleast a handful of dmen are having better seasons. And before we get too hard on Carlson defensive play I will say that he is better defensively than the majority of offensive defencemen around the league. Try watching guys like that Gostisbehere, Letang, Leddy, Krug, Yandle, Shattenkirk, Sergachev, Green, Karlsson, Reilly, Klingberg, Subban, Barrie, Burns. All offensive dmen that are prone to mistakes in the defensive zone. Yet somehow the majority of these guys are considered elite and Carlson is better or as good as a 2 way dman than any of them. You guys cry about Carlson but trust me we dont have it that bad.
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: Maacoshark on Saturday January 13, 2018, 10:13:24 AM Eastern --- I honestly dont care for the new breed of dmen. Teams want at least 4 men involved in every rush. I like the dmen getting involved in the offensive zone making plays to keep the puck in as long as a forward is there to cover. Now you see dmen leaving the dzone early and leading the rush. Orlov does it all the time. Some of the old school type dmen are struggling with the way the game has changed. Guys like Weber, Seabrook, Orpik or even Alzner. Seabrook was a healthy scratch in one game last week.
I'm having a tough time making the adjustment too. The league is going to puck moving dmen that can skate. You are seeing smaller and less physical dmen now. In the past you would never see a player like Djoos.
As for Carlson being a Norris candidate. I think he should get some votes but I still think atleast a handful of dmen are having better seasons. And before we get too hard on Carlson defensive play I will say that he is better defensively than the majority of offensive defencemen around the league. Try watching guys like that Gostisbehere, Letang, Leddy, Krug, Yandle, Shattenkirk, Sergachev, Green, Karlsson, Reilly, Klingberg, Subban, Barrie, Burns. All offensive dmen that are prone to mistakes in the defensive zone. Yet somehow the majority of these guys are considered elite and Carlson is better or as good as a 2 way dman than any of them. You guys cry about Carlson but trust me we dont have it that bad.
--- End quote ---
Exactly. I , and I may speak for a few others, don’t think we have it that good either.
You are correct, that by nature the 4th forwards will be prone to mistakes, high risk, expliotable, and defensive liabilities, and when they have 4-5 young or expired other Dman, and are getting over 20 min a game. . . it’s way magnified and leads to way to many points for the other team.
We have at least two HOF forwards two young forwards making megabucks for thier “potential” alone, Mr Shopt-out, and a “talented” rooke. . . let them do our damn offense, because they sure as shit are gettin enough of the Cap without dipping into the DCorps for help.
So yes, Carlson is an elite 4th forward, and maybe an above average defensive Dman. But, that is simply not gonna keep enough points off the board to get us out of the second round.
The ire towards Carlson is not just in him. It’s toward the “entertainment first” philosophy that this team is built on.
Maacoshark:
I call those type of players hybrid dmen. Same Idea. Bobby Orr was the first to play that style but he really excelled at it. Teams didnt know how to defend it. The 80s had a handful of guys that played like that. Coffey, Leetch, Housley.
Not many true dmen left. I miss guys like Scott Stevens and Mark Tinordi.
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