Talk about Capitals hockey & more! > Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion
Malkin and Hagelin out for tomorrow's game
BlackIce:
--- Quote from: Maacoshark on Wednesday April 25, 2018, 09:49:55 PM Eastern --- Myth? You are kidding. Burakovsky and Vrana are probably the worst defenbsive players on the team. Burakovsky always has good defensive linemates. Come on man. He usually plays with Backstrom and Oshie. From what I have seen. We care a better team when he isnt in the lineup.
I agree that the first line us a concern at times. They get hemmed in the defensive zone alot.
--- End quote ---
I'll agree that Vrana has major issues on defense, but I'm going to call you on this. Mentioning Bura and Vrana in the same sentence defensively is nonsense. Bura is a MUCH better player defensively.
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Wednesday April 25, 2018, 09:32:27 PM Eastern ---
Where is this myth coming from that Burakovsky isn't a decent defensive player? He's no Bergeron for sure, but he's not a friggin' liability like the Kuzy/Ovie/Wilson line. Watching the games this year, time after time after time it's that line that can't get out of its own way, can't handle a forecheck, and struggles mightily to get the puck out of the defensive zone. There's more to defense than being a stonewall to the opposition. You have to be able to turn the play, and our supposed #1 line is not very good at either, frankly. They are a lot more of a concern than any line Burakovsky has been on.
--- End quote ---
I agree with Maaco, what the hell are you talking about?
Bura, Varna, and yes, Kuzy are absolutely defensive jokes, and give up more chances for the other team then they make for us. . . and every coach in the league knows it. In fact, they might not make other NHL teams for that reason alone.
Don't get so caught up in the fads and buzzwords that you neglect the myriad of other factor like system, situation, or opposition, at minimum. Because what you're describing up there just sounds like a video game.
BlackIce:
--- Quote from: DC_1908 on Thursday April 26, 2018, 07:58:03 AM Eastern ---I agree with Maaco, what the hell are you talking about?
Bura, Varna, and yes, Kuzy are absolutely defensive jokes, and give up more chances for the other team then they make for us. . . and every coach in the league knows it. In fact, they might not make other NHL teams for that reason alone.
Don't get so caught up in the fads and buzzwords that you neglect the myriad of other factor like system, situation, or opposition, at minimum. Because what you're describing up there just sounds like a video game.
--- End quote ---
Bura is NOT a joke defensively. You are the one who is caught up in your own perceptions, which may or may not be true.
There are two sides to the defensive coin -- preventing shots/chances/goals when the other team has the puck in your zone, and gaining/keeping possession so that you can generate shots/chances/goals while the other team can't.
On a Caps team that struggled with that during the season -- they were somewhat in the middle of the pack, but everyone below them except NJ was a non-playoff team -- do you know who on the Caps had the best ratio of shots for to shots against? Yeah, it was Burakovsky; higher than anyone else, including Backstrom and Oshie. And it isn't true that he was always on the ice with those two. He spent quite a bit of time on the Eller line, which otherwise was NOT a possession line.
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Thursday April 26, 2018, 08:19:29 AM Eastern ---
Bura is NOT a joke defensively. You are the one who is caught up in your own perceptions, which may or may not be true.
There are two sides to the defensive coin -- preventing shots/chances/goals when the other team has the puck in your zone, and gaining/keeping possession so that you can generate shots/chances/goals while the other team can't.
On a Caps team that struggled with that during the season -- they were somewhat in the middle of the pack, but everyone below them except NJ was a non-playoff team -- do you know who on the Caps had the best ratio of shots for to shots against? Yeah, it was Burakovsky; higher than anyone else, including Backstrom and Oshie. And it isn't true that he was always on the ice with those two. He spent quite a bit of time on the Eller line, which otherwise was NOT a possession line.
--- End quote ---
:rofl: ok why do you think that is?
Because you listed supports your statements.
Now I don't get to argument the day of the playoffs, but you are debating with two people that have watched/played for a lot of teams, know strategies and analysis by using fanfare, buzzwords, and stats in iron context as a basis for argument and point if view, Maybe you should consider that if people who know what they're talking about say something, that its worth looking into and probably accurate.
Maacoshark:
--- Quote from: BlackIce on Thursday April 26, 2018, 08:19:29 AM Eastern ---
Bura is NOT a joke defensively. You are the one who is caught up in your own perceptions, which may or may not be true.
There are two sides to the defensive coin -- preventing shots/chances/goals when the other team has the puck in your zone, and gaining/keeping possession so that you can generate shots/chances/goals while the other team can't.
On a Caps team that struggled with that during the season -- they were somewhat in the middle of the pack, but everyone below them except NJ was a non-playoff team -- do you know who on the Caps had the best ratio of shots for to shots against? Yeah, it was Burakovsky; higher than anyone else, including Backstrom and Oshie. And it isn't true that he was always on the ice with those two. He spent quite a bit of time on the Eller line, which otherwise was NOT a possession line.
--- End quote ---
You do know that those stats aren't very accurate. A lot of that has to do with who your linemates are. Those stats also don't tell you what kind if players he is playing against. Burakovsky has always been a bit sheltered. He gets more offensive zone starts and he doesn't play against top lines as much. BTW those stats you are talking about aren't a defensive stat. Did know that Beagle has the worst possession stats on the team? Are you going to tell me Burakovsky is better than Beagle defensively. There is a reason Burakovsky has been in the doghouse throughout his career.
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