Talk about Capitals hockey & more! > Washington Capitals & Other Hockey Discussion
GDT R1G2 Blue Jackets @ Capitals 2018-04-15 7:30pm EST NBCSWA, USA
RavenCp:
--- Quote from: Devise on Sunday April 15, 2018, 11:46:48 PM Eastern ---
Respectfully have to disagree with you here. I feel like you basically out argued yourself in this situation.
Look at your last words, you said "The pens do it with the guys they bring up with no pedigree whatsoever who sine the playoffs. They are just such better hockey people than we are?"
You literally just laid out the evidence. Despite all the different roster shuffles, our core group of guys and our methods to building a franchise around them has constantly garnered the same results. Meanwhile the Pens, or the Kings, or the Hawks not so long ago or the Wings of old...you could keep listing...once those teams start seeing consistency in playoff success, that becomes the evidence.
They build and make teams for playoff results, not regular season ones. While the make up of a lot of the last Cup winning teams has changed, I promise you even though they had some holes...they were far less glaring and weaker then our own. Which even then, is only part of the problem. There is a giant elephant in the Capitals dressing room known as "the playoff problem." It effects the very core of this locker room, it does, you can tell me all the bullshit about not knowing what goes on in the room. But you can see it on the faces of the players when adversity comes. Ovechkin MOST resembles this, and god love him it's part of his charm but he's also a big child as well. Go watch in OT of this game we had a chance to score when Wilson fanned I'm sure you saw that. Watch Ovechkin near the front of the net, when Wilson fans...what does he do? He looks to ceiling, he reacts. He may be "in the game" emotionally, but he himself the player isn't. He isn't looking to keep playing, he was hoping it was over and is visibly reacting that it isn't. We have so many examples of this across our bench too.
It's not that you can't be invested in the chances or the winning, but not when your on the ice in the play and can help influence it. That elephant though has always been a problem. I think some of it has to do with Ovie being the C and haven't won anything. Like really. The hockey players in the world don't measure their personal successes they measure their team ones. Look at the past Cup winners. Even the ones that have had consistent success. You notice a trend? Canadian Olympians in notable spots. Olympians who have countless golds, and now also Stanley Cups. It's called knowing how to get the job done when the stakes are their most highest.
Our captain and core has never ever not once never done that. Never. Not even close. Not even in the same league. Blown out of the water. Do you see what I'm getting at? Where as literally everyone of those teams had leadership positions dedicated the players known for doing it most. LA? Doughty. Pens have Crosby as well as Letang in leadership positions. Chicago had Toews and Keith. Old Detroit had Yzerman, Shanahan, I mean geeze they were littered with leaders.
I just think that elephant on the shoulder requires us to replace it with too much. We literally everyone not in our core and in and around it to have the work ethic of Jay Beagle and TJ Oshie and provide finish to make up for it. Otherwise inevitably this team rides on the up and down waves far too much. It's been our biggest problem since forever. We ride the wave when we play good, and then when we make a mistake and it ends up in the back of the net we play worse for a stretch. We let it get to us. We always have.
--- End quote ---
amin
RavenCp:
--- Quote from: Maacoshark on Monday April 16, 2018, 12:20:55 AM Eastern --- Not sure it matters now
--- End quote ---
Well, we have good chances to win.
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: Devise on Sunday April 15, 2018, 11:46:48 PM Eastern ---
Respectfully have to disagree with you here. I feel like you basically out argued yourself in this situation.
Look at your last words, you said "The pens do it with the guys they bring up with no pedigree whatsoever who sine the playoffs. They are just such better hockey people than we are?"
You literally just laid out the evidence. Despite all the different roster shuffles, our core group of guys and our methods to building a franchise around them has constantly garnered the same results. Meanwhile the Pens, or the Kings, or the Hawks not so long ago or the Wings of old...you could keep listing...once those teams start seeing consistency in playoff success, that becomes the evidence.
They build and make teams for playoff results, not regular season ones. While the make up of a lot of the last Cup winning teams has changed, I promise you even though they had some holes...they were far less glaring and weaker then our own. Which even then, is only part of the problem. There is a giant elephant in the Capitals dressing room known as "the playoff problem." It effects the very core of this locker room, it does, you can tell me all the bullshit about not knowing what goes on in the room. But you can see it on the faces of the players when adversity comes. Ovechkin MOST resembles this, and god love him it's part of his charm but he's also a big child as well. Go watch in OT of this game we had a chance to score when Wilson fanned I'm sure you saw that. Watch Ovechkin near the front of the net, when Wilson fans...what does he do? He looks to ceiling, he reacts. He may be "in the game" emotionally, but he himself the player isn't. He isn't looking to keep playing, he was hoping it was over and is visibly reacting that it isn't. We have so many examples of this across our bench too.
It's not that you can't be invested in the chances or the winning, but not when your on the ice in the play and can help influence it. That elephant though has always been a problem. I think some of it has to do with Ovie being the C and haven't won anything. Like really. The hockey players in the world don't measure their personal successes they measure their team ones. Look at the past Cup winners. Even the ones that have had consistent success. You notice a trend? Canadian Olympians in notable spots. Olympians who have countless golds, and now also Stanley Cups. It's called knowing how to get the job done when the stakes are their most highest.
Our captain and core has never ever not once never done that. Never. Not even close. Not even in the same league. Blown out of the water. Do you see what I'm getting at? Where as literally everyone of those teams had leadership positions dedicated the players known for doing it most. LA? Doughty. Pens have Crosby as well as Letang in leadership positions. Chicago had Toews and Keith. Old Detroit had Yzerman, Shanahan, I mean geeze they were littered with leaders.
I just think that elephant on the shoulder requires us to replace it with too much. We literally everyone not in our core and in and around it to have the work ethic of Jay Beagle and TJ Oshie and provide finish to make up for it. Otherwise inevitably this team rides on the up and down waves far too much. It's been our biggest problem since forever. We ride the wave when we play good, and then when we make a mistake and it ends up in the back of the net we play worse for a stretch. We let it get to us. We always have.
--- End quote ---
You’re God Damn Right!!!
KitFisto:
I have come to genuinely dislike this group of players.
DC_1908:
--- Quote from: apace41 on Sunday April 15, 2018, 11:30:16 PM Eastern ---
Loved your earlier post so that gives me the right to disagree on this one. EVERY team in the playoffs has holes. In a free agency era with a cap you can't afford to plug all the holes (especially in an expansion year -- losing Schmitty hurt a lot). You can't put consistent OT losses on "the way the franchise was built" or at least I don't. All of that is 20-20 hindsight. We've had teams that were "built for the playoffs" like last year - out in the 2nd round. Teams that overachieved like this one -- looking like out in the first round. You can't account for that with the organization other than by second-guessing based on the results.
I don't know if I really believe in "curses" but we do get more than our share of bad luck and unfortunate bounces. And, of course, a lot of missed opportunities and mistakes at key moments. But we do it with different players year after year and I find it hard to imagine our coaches are telling Burakovsky to take an O-zone penalty with 5 minutes left up a goal in game 1. Or telling Wilson to garner more roughing penalties than one can imagine and then miss an open net in OT.
It's different guys all the time but I don't buy the "no built to win" crap. The Pens do it with guys they bring up with no pedigree whatsoever who shine in the playoffs. They are just such better hockey people than we are? I don't see it.
--- End quote ---
It's one of two things, the front office is beyond incompetent, or not only is winning the Cup is not the priority, but they are taking "having a chance" to the bank.
By "having a chance" (aka The Rock The Red Kool Aid), they can build a team of "popular players" that markets to the naive demographic and creates/continues an illusion that "popularity is good, stats are great, so we should win", I mean who cares about defenseman or 200ft players? Particularly when l in the video games the fringe demographic plays have they can just turn those off. Then when exposed theu have a marketing opportunity for a new excuse and catch phrase.
Its actually a pretty good business move. . .for the WNBA, a DIII softball team,. or if your REALLY slick, (and have great lawyers), it's an excellent stock market strategy. . . Oh, and its also good to start a religious cult with.
But, it has no place as a long term strategy in a mans sport. At some point, you have to start fighting your opponents/competitors and not just marketing to your own. This is why Teddys, Dickless, and BetaMakes masculinity needs to be directly challenged.
Or. . . The Cup IS the priority, and Monumental is always doing what ever it takes it win multiple Cups. All of there decisions are made by hockey experts based on massive analytics and stratagems to give multiple advantages to the teams in the conference and division, watch contracts offered to keep us in a favorable situation for upcoming years . . . and this works everywhere, but with us. . . (?)
We just don't have "luck", wer'e cursed, and listen Mr Patrick and Mr McClellanwill tell us why we haven't won because after all they "know hockey" and want a Cup more than us ( . . . )
At this point, th mulligans, leeway, and learning curve are out. . . They're either conman or grossly incompetent and its time they get challenged to that.
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